Williams Recruit

@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

for those of you too lazy to look up his times…

21.46 flat 50
20.89 relay 50 (also went 21.65 in his relay 50 later in the meet)
47.56 relay 100

a good sprinter, but considering his size (he’s 6’10”), he could be a TON better. with the right training, williams could make this guy into a monster.

@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

He was a 21.4 flat start, but unfortunatelly, i cannot find splits. This kid must have amazing potential and is obviously already a great d3 recrruit. Good pick up for Williams.

this kid is huge. tons of potential.

his brother sam goes to colby, and he should have a good year…he’s 21.98 after one dual meet.

@griz wrote:

this kid is huge. tons of potential.

his brother sam goes to colby, and he should have a good year…he’s 21.98 after one dual meet.

that’s really good too, i know a lot of naperville kids have swam d3 and had success, and i know new trier is a great program, so do they have any other d3 swimmers we might know of?

evan mullin is also at colby from new trier. he’s done pretty well for himself at 47 100 free, 1:42 200 free, and 4:43 500 free.

@silentp wrote:

@griz wrote:

this kid is huge. tons of potential.

his brother sam goes to colby, and he should have a good year…he’s 21.98 after one dual meet.

that’s really good too, i know a lot of naperville kids have swam d3 and had success, and i know new trier is a great program, so do they have any other d3 swimmers we might know of?

Kara MacLaverty of New Trier swims at Amherst.

@The Treat wrote:

@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

for those of you too lazy to look up his times…

21.46 flat 50
20.89 relay 50 (also went 21.65 in his relay 50 later in the meet)
47.56 relay 100

a good sprinter, but considering his size (he’s 6’10”), he could be a TON better. with the right training, williams could make this guy into a monster.

I went to new trier – long time ago – as far as size and being a ton better 2 names shawn bradley and manute bol

time will tell those times are ok in HS, 50 being far more impressive than a 47.56 relay.

@JHU84 wrote:

@The Treat wrote:

@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

for those of you too lazy to look up his times…

21.46 flat 50
20.89 relay 50 (also went 21.65 in his relay 50 later in the meet)
47.56 relay 100

a good sprinter, but considering his size (he’s 6’10”), he could be a TON better. with the right training, williams could make this guy into a monster.

I went to new trier – long time ago – as far as size and being a ton better 2 names shawn bradley and manute bol

time will tell those times are ok in HS, 50 being far more impressive than a 47.56 relay.

key word – could. i totally agree, he could be a huge bust, but b/c of his size, he has huge potential. if he has crappy technique, his size wont help that much, but if it’s good and he’s just getting used to his size (which really could be an issue, i mean he’s almost 7 feet tall), we could see great things. we’ll see how he performs this year at IHSA state.

Yeah if he has sloppy technique we may never see what he is capable of, but if he is pretty solid look out. 6’10 any way you slice it is huge.

Sloppy technique can become good or even great technique over 4 years.

Word on the street is that some of the other NESCAC coaches werent so disappointed to lose him. I am sure that Kuster will do a great job with him though.

I think it might be to early to say this guy will be the next Aaron Cole, but he is going to a school where kids always get better.

I met Ben when he visited his brother Sam at Colby. I think its crazy to say that other coaches wouldn’t care about whether they go this kid or not. He would be a top recruit on any team in the nescac. Also, we’re talking about times from his junior year right? I think there’s more left to see. I also know of Williams acquiring a national level distance swimmer.

What kind of times are we talking about?

Lot space for a guy who hasn’t appeared in one meet for Williams to date and isn’t listed on the roster.

Am I missing something here?

Apparently you missed the first post of the topic:
@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

Also, I would note a phenomenon that I think a lot of us may have experienced. You hit puberty, started growing like crazy, and swimming got a little awkward. According to that article, this kid just finished growing. As a coach, that says to me that he is no prepared to drop loads of time.

@swim5599 wrote:

What kind of times are we talking about?

Last dual meet that new trier swam – he went 22.04 – my 14 yr old goes that I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Again manute bol

Does your 14 year old have any interest in a private all boys boarding school in Western PA? Just kidding with that one (hope that joke isn’t against forum rules. But seriously, I am willing to bet this kid will be an all-american. 22.04 is a good swim considering he is a good taper swimmer and if he goes a 21.0 this season we have to consider him a pretty good recruit I think.

@JHU84 wrote:

@swim5599 wrote:

What kind of times are we talking about?

Last dual meet that new trier swam – he went 22.04 – my 14 yr old goes that I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Again manute bol

agreed 22.04 could pan out to be nothing, but could also be something great. both the 50 fr champ last year and I were both like 23’s when we were 14 (IF that). we knew a kid who set a national record when he was 12 going 22.something and only ended up .1 faster than slavik at the end of his career.

@JHU84 wrote:

@swim5599 wrote:

What kind of times are we talking about?

Last dual meet that new trier swam – he went 22.04 – my 14 yr old goes that I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Again manute bol

well, sounds more like Sabir Muhammed to me… 21 low coming into college, yet STANFORD gave him a full ride… I don’t see your 14 year old splitting 19.6 for a 50 fly in the next four years.

@The Treat wrote:

@JHU84 wrote:

@swim5599 wrote:

What kind of times are we talking about?

Last dual meet that new trier swam – he went 22.04 – my 14 yr old goes that I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Again manute bol

agreed 22.04 could pan out to be nothing, but could also be something great. both the 50 fr champ last year and I were both like 23’s when we were 14 (IF that). we knew a kid who set a national record when he was 12 going 22.something and only ended up .1 faster than slavik at the end of his career.

Big difference between 12 and 14 – take a look at the Nat record holder names for 14 yr olds – crocker, phelps behrens bubolz to name a few. Point was what is the fuss about this guy when there are alot of other fish in the sea.

@RhymeAndReason wrote:

@JHU84 wrote:

@swim5599 wrote:

What kind of times are we talking about?

Last dual meet that new trier swam – he went 22.04 – my 14 yr old goes that I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Again manute bol

well, sounds more like Sabir Muhammed to me… 21 low coming into college, yet STANFORD gave him a full ride… I don’t see your 14 year old splitting 19.6 for a 50 fly in the next four years.

Your probably right he is not a sprinter prefers 200 IM,

I think 22.0 is a pretty good in season swim for a HS kid. If he goes 21.0 he would def be considered one of the fastest d 3 sprinters coming in. And at Williams he will only get better. I am not saying we are going to see him break John Young’s school record in the 100 there, but he could end up 20.6 and 45.3. We will not know until he gets here

@N Dynamite wrote:

Apparently you missed the first post of the topic:
@Vic wrote:

It looks like Williams will have a good sprinter coming in next year:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/preps/147241,CST-SPT-swim23.article

No, I got it. Most likely this level of attention has been generated in large part by his height. I suspect if he was 6′ 2″ we wouldn’t see such attention.

BTW, very few world class swimmers are 6′ 8″ (Michael Gross was one notable exception).

Matt Grevers is about 6’8 also

Rolandis Gimbutis is 6’7” at least. Michael Cavic is 6’8”. Jakob Andjaer for Auburn is 6’9”. You can’t say that there are no tall fast swimmers. Being tall helps a lot. I would say fast swimmers under 6′ are the exception cough (Erik Vendt) cough.

@Colbybr wrote:

Does your 14 year old have any interest in a private all boys boarding school in Western PA? Just kidding with that one (hope that joke isn’t against forum rules. But seriously, I am willing to bet this kid will be an all-american. 22.04 is a good swim considering he is a good taper swimmer and if he goes a 21.0 this season we have to consider him a pretty good recruit I think.

The only 50 he will swim tapered is at the end of the MR if he doesn’t swim fly – he is really a 200/ Free IM guy (158.3 early season) but can sprint 47.9 early season 53.2 100 fly. He is very interested in DIII as is his other freshman training buddy (4:49, 147, 54 low 100 back all mid season) Both are still only 5’8″ and and growing. DIII has an advantage in that they can recruit underclassmen – I just haven’t seen alot of coaches do it – could strike some early gold.

If you think how relatively few scholarships are out there then if a kids has to pay for college or get fin aid – why not go to a top academic institution and really enjoy swimming vs. # 3 or 4 guy at UT

@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

Rolandis Gimbutis is 6’7” at least. Michael Cavic is 6’8”. Jakob Andjaer for Auburn is 6’9”. You can’t say that there are no tall fast swimmers. Being tall helps a lot. I would say fast swimmers under 6′ are the exception cough (Erik Vendt) cough.

I said “very few” not none. I’ll focus just on the “modern era” lets say after 1984 and only from the US (to start with)

Under 6 foot

Dave Berkoff
Ray Carey
Eric Vendt
Ed Moses

Also there are quite a few that are listed as 6 that look to me in person to be under (Brendan Hansen to name one).

I’d be very surprised if you could come up with 4 US Olympians 6′ 7″ and taller since 1984 (Tom Malchow is one).

My point is that “extreme height” defined as over 6′ 7″ or taller is no great advantage. To paraphase John Wooden, its not how tall you are but how tall you swim that counts.

@neswim wrote:

@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

Rolandis Gimbutis is 6’7” at least. Michael Cavic is 6’8”. Jakob Andjaer for Auburn is 6’9”. You can’t say that there are no tall fast swimmers. Being tall helps a lot. I would say fast swimmers under 6′ are the exception cough (Erik Vendt) cough.

I said “very few” not none. I’ll focus just on the “modern era” lets say after 1984 and only from the US (to start with)

Under 6 foot

Dave Berkoff
Ray Carey
Eric Vendt
Ed Moses

Also there are quite a few that are listed as 6 that look to me in person to be under (Brendan Hansen to name one).

I’d be very surprised if you could come up with 4 US Olympians 6′ 7″ and taller since 1984 (Tom Malchow is one).

My point is that “extreme height” defined as over 6′ 7″ or taller is no great advantage. To paraphase John Wooden, its not how tall you are but how tall you swim that counts.

ok, but take the pool of people who are swimmers and are over 6’7″. now look at the pool of people who are swimmers and under 6′. which pool has more to draw from? the fact that there are that many guys out there right now who are that tall is a testament to the fact that height DOES matter. most of the ppl who are 6’7″ or taller go to do other, more profitable things with it (i.e. basketball).

@The Treat wrote:

ok, but take the pool of people who are swimmers and are over 6’7″. now look at the pool of people who are swimmers and under 6′. which pool has more to draw from? the fact that there are that many guys out there right now who are that tall is a testament to the fact that height DOES matter. most of the ppl who are 6’7″ or taller go to do other, more profitable things with it (i.e. basketball).

Good example: Kyle Humphreys. Plays for the Utah Jazz, went to the University of Minnesota. I saw him break a few age group records in Lincoln, NE at Zones one summer. The kid was amazing, but you can’t blame him for switching.

@silentp wrote:

Good example: Kyle Humphreys. Plays for the Utah Jazz, went to the University of Minnesota. I saw him break a few age group records in Lincoln, NE at Zones one summer. The kid was amazing, but you can’t blame him for switching.

I don’t think that’s all that great of an example. Not every guy who’s tall is athletic. Humphreys is obviously an amazing athlete to play in the NBA – I would be disappointed if most of those guys wouldn’t be good swimmers (if they wanted to be). This Williams recruit might turn out to be good. He also may have a terrible feel for the water but can go decent times because he’s big but won’t get faster. I’m not passing any judgment on this kid until I see him swim for Williams. For every 6’7 guy in the NBA there are quite a few who can barely walk without tripping.

Basically, what you’re arguing is, the shorter you are the less athletic ability you have. Hell, if you’re 5’4 you probably wouldn’t be able to compete in the Special Olympics. If you’re 5′ can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

@N Dynamite wrote:

@silentp wrote:

Good example: Kyle Humphreys. Plays for the Utah Jazz, went to the University of Minnesota. I saw him break a few age group records in Lincoln, NE at Zones one summer. The kid was amazing, but you can’t blame him for switching.

I don’t think that’s all that great of an example. Not every guy who’s tall is athletic. Humphreys is obviously an amazing athlete to play in the NBA – I would be disappointed if most of those guys wouldn’t be good swimmers (if they wanted to be). This Williams recruit might turn out to be good. He also may have a terrible feel for the water but can go decent times because he’s big but won’t get faster. I’m not passing any judgment on this kid until I see him swim for Williams. For every 6’7 guy in the NBA there are quite a few who can barely walk without tripping.

Basically, what you’re arguing is, the shorter you are the less athletic ability you have. Hell, if you’re 5’4 you probably wouldn’t be able to compete in the Special Olympics. If you’re 5′ can you walk and chew gum at the same time?

i cant speak for silentp, but my original comment was that a 6’7″ person has more potential. i said that his 22.0 was decent, but could be a lot better. if you were to ask me to pick two people that i know absolutely nothing about except for their height, 5’7″ and 6’7″, I’m going to pick 6’7″ every time. i dont even know how this is an argument. agreed there are unathletic/clumsy 6’7″, but there are also clumsy 5’7″ people. swimming is also a sport in which clumsiness survives.

also, for every 6’7″ guy in the NBA, there is NOT one who can barely walk without tripping. i think you’re underestimating how many 6’7″ are in the NBA and how many are forwards (maybe some guards) and not centers. people in the NBA are some of the most athletic people in the world, so to say they can barely walk is a gross exaggeration. if you have a 6’7″ center, you’re in trouble. centers are 6’11” and above. you MIGHT be able to make that statement about people in the NBA who are above 7′ tall. but i digress, the NBA has nothing to do with swimming. i only brought up basketball b/c many tall people would consider switching to basketball b/c of the popularity and money involved in basketball.

lets use an example of a swimmer you’re very fond of, caleb courage. caleb is a tall guy with very large feet and hands. i dont think you can argue that he would have had the same success if he was 6 inches shorter, with smaller hands and feet. it’s simple physics and math. bigger hands/feet = more propulsion. taller guy = getting to the wall faster.

i cant even believe this has been debated this much. taller = more potential. obviously its not the only attribute. natural swimming talent is a big factor, but as with almost every sport, taller is better.

@The Treat wrote:

also, for every 6’7″ guy in the NBA, there is NOT one who can barely walk without tripping. i think you’re underestimating how many 6’7″ are in the NBA and how many are forwards (maybe some guards) and not centers. people in the NBA are some of the most athletic people in the world, so to say they can barely walk is a gross exaggeration.

I didn’t mean unathletic in the NBA, I meant 6’7 and not in the NBA
@The Treat wrote:

lets use an example of a swimmer you’re very fond of, caleb courage. caleb is a tall guy with very large feet and hands. i dont think you can argue that he would have had the same success if he was 6 inches shorter, with smaller hands and feet. it’s simple physics and math. bigger hands/feet = more propulsion. taller guy = getting to the wall faster.

Agreed, his size has to be an advantage, just like Evan Christianson’s lack of size was a disadvantage anchoring the 200 FR at NCAA’s his senior year (he was too small to be swimming through that much turbulent water)

My point was, everyone seems so high on this kid, but it sounds like “ooh, he’s tall, there’s no way he won’t be fast swimming at Williams.” Then we get the example of “here’s a guy who’s tall and he was blazing fast because of it.” I hope he does well, but as you said height isn’t everything. Can we at least stop drooling over this kid until he gets to college? What happens if some D1 school notices him and offers him money between now and September? He may never swim a d3 meet.

@N Dynamite wrote:

@The Treat wrote:

also, for every 6’7″ guy in the NBA, there is NOT one who can barely walk without tripping. i think you’re underestimating how many 6’7″ are in the NBA and how many are forwards (maybe some guards) and not centers. people in the NBA are some of the most athletic people in the world, so to say they can barely walk is a gross exaggeration.

I didn’t mean unathletic in the NBA, I meant 6’7 and not in the NBA
@The Treat wrote:

lets use an example of a swimmer you’re very fond of, caleb courage. caleb is a tall guy with very large feet and hands. i dont think you can argue that he would have had the same success if he was 6 inches shorter, with smaller hands and feet. it’s simple physics and math. bigger hands/feet = more propulsion. taller guy = getting to the wall faster.

Agreed, his size has to be an advantage, just like Evan Christianson’s lack of size was a disadvantage anchoring the 200 FR at NCAA’s his senior year (he was too small to be swimming through that much turbulent water)

My point was, everyone seems so high on this kid, but it sounds like “ooh, he’s tall, there’s no way he won’t be fast swimming at Williams.” Then we get the example of “here’s a guy who’s tall and he was blazing fast because of it.” I hope he does well, but as you said height isn’t everything. Can we at least stop drooling over this kid until he gets to college? What happens if some D1 school notices him and offers him money between now and September? He may never swim a d3 meet.

i can certainly agree to that. i never made any bold predictions or claimed he would be 20.0 or something like that (though some ppl may have, i dont even remember at this point and im too lazy to check). i just said that he has potential.

this topic needs to go in a new direction or be done.

I think we can sum it up that he is a guy who would be a good recruit whether he as 5’4 or 7’0. 21.46 is a good time for a high school junior that is going to swim d3. He will probably drop some time in college as sprinters are likely to do. This will make him a pretty good college swimmer. Nuff said.

Yeah that is a good time and he is going to a school where you drop time, so he should have a good career, but I am not about to say he is going to be Aaron cole, because 6’7 does not tell me anything other than his height. I would have to watch him swim and train to even have a clue as to what he might do.

@swim5599 wrote:

Yeah that is a good time and he is going to a school where you drop time, so he should have a good career, but I am not about to say he is going to be Aaron cole, because 6’7 does not tell me anything other than his height. I would have to watch him swim and train to even have a clue as to what he might do.

he’s not 6’7″. he’s 6’10”. i just checked earlier. 6’7″ was just used by someone earlier in the topic to specify “tall”. they asked how many 6’7″ swimmers in d1 there were that were good or something. anyway, end of discussion.

Lol. way to regulate

Ben Wampler recorded a 20.88 in his high school state meet (Illinois) this weekend. Solid improvement from his 21.46 last year and it makes him one of the top freshmen going into next year.

@Colbybr wrote:

Ben Wampler recorded a 20.88 in his high school state meet (Illinois) this weekend. Solid improvement from his 21.46 last year and it makes him one of the top freshmen going into next year.

so in conclusion, being tall does help.