Wheaton at NCAA DIV lll Champ.

Forums Conferences College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin Wheaton at NCAA DIV lll Champ.

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    • #12370
      Swim Dad
      Member

      It looks like the Wheaton Women will be well represented at the D3 Natls but what happened to the Men? It really looks like they underperformed at Conference which will leave them out of all Relay competition and will only have Higgins, Morris and maybe Cramer individually. It looks like Carthage will score more then Wheaton for the first time

    • #35638

      @Swim Dad wrote:

      It looks like the Wheaton Women will be well represented at the D3 Natls but what happened to the Men? It really looks like they underperformed at Conference which will leave them out of all Relay competition and will only have Higgins, Morris and maybe Cramer individually. It looks like Carthage will score more then Wheaton for the first time

      How is Cramer getting in?

      I actually thought they performed very well – Hartman was the only main guy not going PR’s, and his whole season was down, unfortuntely. Cramer and Verner swam great (Verner swam out of his mind!), Higgins swam well for not being tapered, Mulsoff was better than he was last year, Morris swam great (All PRs), Linn was PRing all over the place, and Hoffer swam well.

      The only person who had a bad meet that I can think of was Robert Noll. Lederhouse was ok.

      They had their shot at nationals with the 200 free relay, if Higgins had been on it, they would have been 1:23.84 with his leadoff from the B relay, then it would have just been all about execution to make the cut (just .25 more). To bad…

      It’s going to be Morris and Higgins, and yep, I’m guessing Carthage will outscore Wheaton at nats this year! They ought to anyway. I think Higgins will score a lot of points, I doubt Morris will score any – I’m think he’s going to have a hard time retapering (since it appeared he was still tapered at Midwest). It’s Carthage’s to lose.

      I really have to disagree with you that they underperformed though – They swam a huge number of PR’s. I think you had unrealistic expections (thinking they were going to get a 800 relay in and such).

    • #35639
      Swim Dad
      Member

      I thought Cramer had a Mile cut?
      I guess I was disappointed with the Senior class except Higgins and Wheaton got nothing out of their freshman class

    • #35640
      Swim Dad
      Member

      Actually Cramer had a B Cut in the 400 IM

    • #35641

      @Swim Dad wrote:

      Actually Cramer had a B Cut in the 400 IM

      Well, yes, but unfortuntealy it isn’t fast enough to get into the meet. A great swim for him though, PR by something like 3 seconds.

    • #35642
      Gyorf
      Member

      i think higgins should have been in the 200 free relay. but it was a close call. All in all people swam well, its just a bummer that the relays werent there. funny how that works with winning conference and only having 2 guys at nats. its kind of a toss up. but all in all the guys did very well, everyone knew it was going to be tough to get relays in. and congrats to the girls.

    • #35643
      swim5599
      Member

      I know it was a down year for the wheaton men, but their girls sprint free relays were awesome. I wonder if we will see 2 wheaton records go down in the 50 and 100 free at nationals. Burt has been stellar all year long.

      Yeah the men’s 200 FR with Higgins would have been close, but that may not have made it either. Either way I can see Higgins having a big meet. I guess the question is what is he going to swim besides his 200 free.

    • #35644

      Indeed, Wheaton will have 9 women at nationals (if my math is right). Although only three will swim individual events, it is still a good showing for them.

    • #35645
      swim5599
      Member

      Morris ended up 20th in the 200 fly. OH man its going to be close.

    • #35646

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Morris ended up 20th in the 200 fly. OH man its going to be close.

      Yeah. Crap.

    • #35647
      swim5599
      Member

      SO just Higgins in for the Wheaton men. ANyone know why Pelka is not entered with the 15:59 he went in the mile at conf? I think he was selected based on his 16:04. I am sure that will be corrected, but I was just wondering.

    • #35648

      This was definitely a disappointing season for Wheaton men :(. Second, possibly, to only ’93 when Wheaton went from 4th in ’91 and 3rd in ’92 to zero representation in ’93. But they (we) picked ourselves up and moved on, building another strong string of years. Those were some good years with the guys… seems like we were always nervous about getting in and then cocky we had a chance to win… haha.

      I must admit, I was very disappointed with performances at Conference… Not necessarily relays and individuals not qualifying, but just the prevalence of stagnation in individual performances. So many swimmers swimming the same times they have swam the last 2-5 years, with little or no improvement. Props to their patience, they’re a sturdy bunch of men.

      On a happier note, I’m definitely looking forward to seeing the Wheaton women kick some and get some in Houston this year. (in defense of the guys DIII men stay pretty constant, while DIII women seem to vacillate between really fast years and not so fast years, must be something to do with title-IX… when in doubt, blame title-IX)

    • #35649
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @ohhowimissracing wrote:

      …must be something to do with title-XI… when in doubt, blame title-XI)

      Yeah, damn that Title 11. Title 9 too. Crime and Punishment, To Kill a Mockingbird, and that book with Pip that I never read. All those titles I didn’t like. 😆

    • #35650
      swim5599
      Member

      1:36.3 and top 8 for the women in the 2 fr this morning. Burt 23.9 and top 8. Marko just missed the consolation final in the 500, and the one that hurts the DQ in the 4 medley.

    • #35651
      Swim Dad
      Member

      I share the pain of The Wheaton Men not reaching their potential and not making the Nats. When in doubt blame the taper. I have seen it first hand and truly believe that the team lacked motivation and they set their goals to just beat Carthage. It seemed to me that this year was just a group of swimmers trying to reach individual goals. Without having great swims by many of the Seniors at Conference the underclassmen didn’t do it either.
      Wheaton will have to rebuild and it must start with getting good swimmers to come there since the Class of 2010 was a bust.

    • #35652
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @Swim Dad wrote:

      Wheaton will have to rebuild and it must start with getting good swimmers to come there since the Class of 2010 was a bust.

      Isn’t that a little harsh? First, it’s not like you didn’t see this coming – most of their qualifiers last year were seniors. Plus, why should the freshmen carry the load? Lastly, why can’t they be victims of the whole country getting faster? Even Kenyon doesn’t look as dominant as they used to because of everyone else getting better. I’m sure Coach Lederhouse will have them back to national prominence sooner than later.

    • #35653
      swim5599
      Member

      First of all there is no way you go out and replace what they lost last year, and secondly you can’t always blame the taper. I am interested to know who swim Dad thinks should have qualified for the meet. Because they swam pretty well with a bunch of PR’s. Sometimes you just don’t drop as much time as you would hope. That being said I would think dropping time still tells you that you tapered pretty well.

    • #35654
      swim5599
      Member

      And can you really call an entire recruiting class a bust based on one year or swimming?

    • #35655
      Swim Dad
      Member

      It is my opinion about what I expected to see this year as far as improvement and making Nats. It is pretty obvious that Hartman, Higgins and Morris should have done better. I expected more out of Cramer, Linn and Lederhouse. Other swimmers such as Verner, Noll and Mulsoff didn’t show much in the way of improvement. Yes other teams continue to go faster and why not Wheaton. As far as seeing only one year of swimming from the Freshmen class. Time will tell but don’t expect much.

    • #35656
      swim5599
      Member

      well if good swims is what you are looking for from Higgins check out the 1:54 he just went in the IM. Linn had a big year 21.1 is nothing to sneeze at.

    • #35657
      swim5599
      Member

      If my memory serves me correctly the 1:56.3 and 2:10 that Verner went in the 2 IM and 2 breast were Pr’s by a bunch. Morris pr’d in both fly’s as well.

    • #35658
      Swim Dad
      Member

      Higgins has always been capable of big swims but he turns it on and off as it suits him. Linn’s time in the 50 Free wouldn’t even have got him very far in our High school State meet. My comment about blaming the Taper was done tongue in cheek. Maybe if you didn’t always look at things through Blue and orange glasses that you would see that things aren’t as good as you think. There were a lot of negatives this year at Wheaton and I hope things improve soon. I have been around swimming a long time and appreciate a good swim as well as anyone else but I can also voice an opinion when I think a team could have done much better.

    • #35659
      swim5599
      Member

      I am not actually a Wheaton alum, and you are absolutely right when you say you are entitled to your own opinion, but Linn dropped from 21.6 a year ago to 21.1 this year. That is pretty good.

      Well Higgins is turning it on at the right time, and team chemistry will be affected when you lose leaders like Gyorfi and Dobelobower. Everybody rebuilds well unless you swim at Kenyon. Give Jon a few years they will be back in the top ten.

    • #35660

      @Swim Dad wrote:

      Higgins has always been capable of big swims but he turns it on and off as it suits him. Linn’s time in the 50 Free wouldn’t even have got him very far in our High school State meet. My comment about blaming the Taper was done tongue in cheek. Maybe if you didn’t always look at things through Blue and orange glasses that you would see that things aren’t as good as you think. There were a lot of negatives this year at Wheaton and I hope things improve soon. I have been around swimming a long time and appreciate a good swim as well as anyone else but I can also voice an opinion when I think a team could have done much better.

      Speaking of negativity, I’m sick of yours. Get your stats right before you go spouting your big mouth. I don’t know what you expect, but as I already said before, Wheaton had PR’s nearly across the board – certianly more PR’s than last years team. As you and I have pointed out, Noll, Lederhouse and Hartman definately had dissapointing seasons. But at the top, Cramer, Verner, Linn and Higgins had great seasons. Morris went all PR’s, but his big drops were in the 100 fly, 200 IM and 50 free, he did only drop 2 tenths in a 200 fly. Cramer dropped 2 in the 500, 3 in the 400IM. We know about Linn and Higgins.

      Your most glaring lack of knowledge is Verner – he had an amazing season – almost 2 second drop in the 200IM, I think 3 in the 200 breast, sub 1:00 in the 100 breast, and 4:10 in the 400IM (4 second drop?) Consider those drops, along with his HS times, which I think he was like a 4:30 400IMer coming into Wheaton. How is that not good exactly??

      Mulsoff had a decent year, considering last year’s conference. At least he got back to his freshman year times.

      Unfortunately, Lederhouse, Noll have been stagnant since their freshman year. All in all in their careers, they did drop somewhat significantly at Wheaton though (55 – 53.1 100bk for JL, 1:00 to 59.0 for BN, and huge in the 200 br)

      I’m sure some of your issues have merit. I haven’t seen the team this year, and I don’t have many contacts on the team. Maybe I shouldn’t be defending them. I think you had far to high of expections for some things though – I mean, you thought they could get a 800 FR in for crying out loud. You can’t realistically expect everyone to go 2 second PR’s at the same time on a relay, that is just absurd. Okay, I’m done venting at you. I’m sure you are a really nice guy, that I have probably even met. : )

    • #35661
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I am in total agreeance with you Rhyme. If Wheaton can’t put up a selectable time in the 800 FR with the likes of Higgins, Hartman, Denby, Gyorfi and or Dobelbower granted their 8 fr was awesome at nats last year, how are they going to do it with just Higgins and Hartman returning. Cramer is a great distance guy but he has not developed speed enough to go 1:43 in the 200 YET. Linn is a 50 and 100 guy who is capable of going 1:45. Mulsoff is a good 500 guy who has been 1:45. 1:45’s does not get you selected. You better have 4 guys that can consistently go 1:42 high with relay splits or you don’t have a prayer.

      I have always been a huge fan of the Wheaton program, and they have had some great swimmers over the years, but it is Ok to have a down year.

    • #35662
      Gyorf
      Member

      i would like to add that wheaton’s swim team is not all about performance. it is a large part of things and yes, people want to do well and work very hard. but in my experience the community is what makes the team. in my four years i had two dissapointing national meets but never called those year dissapointments because i always had a terrific time with my teammates. the friendships and good times are the reason i look back and say i had 4 great swim seasons. so yes, its a bummer when people dont swim to their potential, but wheatons swim team, especially the guys team, is about MUCH more than that. the times and performance are secondary in my meager opinion, and i think anyone who has been a part or close to wheaton mens swimming would agree.

    • #35663
      Swim Dad
      Member

      Rhyme and Swim5599,

      I am sorry if I offended either of you but I didn’t know the Forum was just for POSITIVE comments. I was off the mark on Verner but I still hold firm that we could still look for time drops with the hard work that these athletes put in and solid tapers. And by the way Rhyme I don’t think you and I have ever met but I am a nice guy.

    • #35664
      swim5599
      Member

      No you did not offend me, and you are right you can say whatever you want on here. I would think the point of this forum is to discuss things. We are all going to have our different opinions on things, and that is fine. I was only stating mine.

    • #35665
      Mr. Obvious
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      No you did not offend me, and you are right you can say whatever you want on here. I would think the point of this forum is to discuss things. We are all going to have our different opinions on things, and that is fine. I was only stating mine.

      Yeah, what he said.

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