Thoughts

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    • #12157
      Ghost Rider
      Member

      Being new to this forum I would like to express my views as I see them after looking at both the Wheaton and EMU results.
      1. There was not really one team that stood out to me as swimming better than others, but classes. The freshmen on both K and Hope teams swam great. 55.7 breast, 51 bk, 45.7 free, 51.8 fly, 4:05.8 4 IM, lets be serious this has to be the fastest freshmen class in MIAA history. 6 b-cuts for freshmen minus relays.
      2. Others to note, Krone is a stud, will be really tough if not impossible to beat in the 500 and mile, though I think Heyboer could give him a run in the 500 if he swam it at leagues. Waterstone and Dekker swam well, the 200 IM will be a great battle between those two again, flys were fast as well. CVB also had a great 200, where I thought the 100 would be faster for him. K has great breastrokers, while Hope has great backstrokers. Tuuk was not as fast as expected, but was faster than he has been all year. One notable swim for Calvin was JBG’s 1:44 anchoring the 800 free relay, not too shabby, but I’m sure we will see more at leagues.
      3. Some swims did disappoint. I thought Bacon would be faster than he was in the 50, his 100 was decent, but I was thinking he would be 46, maybe I was looking for too much. Another was Heyboer. His IM’s were great, but the backstroke was really lacking, he has been faster in dual meets in both the 100 and 50, which makes me think his 200 could have been faster than it was. Calvin in general was disappointing. Julio was a little slower than I thought as well. I don’t doubt that these guys will be fast at the end of the year though.
      4. Now I have a few questions for you normal forum posters: how many MIAA records could fall this year? I count 8. (500/1650(Krone), 200 IM/400 IM(Heyboer), 100 bk(Ellis), 200bk(Heyboer), 200 Medley relay(K), and 400 free relay(Hope)I think Espinosa has to wait a year or 2 before those records fall). And what will be the predicted winner and time of each event at leagues?

    • #32976
      silentp
      Member

      @Ghost Rider wrote:

      4. Now I have a few questions for you normal forum posters: how many MIAA records could fall this year? I count 8. (500/1650(Krone), 200 IM/400 IM(Heyboer), 100 bk(Ellis), 200bk(Heyboer), 200 Medley relay(K), and 400 free relay(Hope)I think Espinosa has to wait a year or 2 before those records fall). And what will be the predicted winner and time of each event at leagues?

      I won’t get into winners right now, but will address the relay records. I think 4: 1back, 500, 1650, 2med.

      The 200 IM would be the next closest, but that is still 2 seconds off. I agree with the assessment about Heyboer 2back being faster if his 50 and 100 had been on however. I don’t think the 400 IM will be touched, unless we are just talking meet records, then the 4:03 will be close, but i would still bet against it.

      Krone didn’t go near that fast last year at Wheaton so i am excited to see what he will do at MIAAs… will we see sub 15:50 and sub 4:30? Maybe, probably hoping for too much in the 500 though.

      400 FR is a very fast Hope relay time and i don’t see this group getting it, but maybe next year if they add someone.

    • #32977
      Stevo
      Member

      I see how it is. Minus all the hope projected records and you get 4. 3:04.17 is attainable for these guys in the 400 FR, and 4:03.75 in the 400 IM will fall to Heyboer this year. If you are talking Duda’s 4:01 i think that is also in jeopordy this year. But are we talking overall best swims by league members of the actual league records? If that’s the case you could add on the 200 FR as well. As much as it pains me to see my last record erased, 1:23.49 is the league record. I really enjoy the swimming talk here, and everyone has good points, but those are the kinds of posts that remind me that i don’t like K.

      My prediction: 6: 400 IM, 400 FR, 200 FR, 500 free, 100 back, and 200 MR (Krone already holds the league record in the mile) acording to MIAA.org, but didn’t Whitbeck go 15.52? If that is the case make it 7.

    • #32978
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      Minus all the hope projected records and you get 4.

      Well at least Hope teaches arithmetic.

    • #32979
      swim5599
      Member

      I do not think that Espinosa will ever break the breaststroke records.

    • #32980
      silentp
      Member

      Whitbeck went 15:52.75, but did it at NCAAs, not MIAAs, so it is not listed at the MIAA record on the miaa.org website. They do not list overall records on the site, as far as i was able to find.

      Heyboer has a good shot at the 400 IM, but i don’t see a big time drop for him in the 2nd half. He seems to be a great in season swimmer, who does drop time tapered, but not as considerable as others. He also has absolutely no competition in the event, which will hurt coming home on the freestyle. Perhaps he will prove me wrong.

      What splits are being used for the 200 FR and 400 FR? I assume all PRs, which while very possible, i wouldn’t put into the realm of probable. A comparable 200 FR last year (replacing JV with Rose) did not break 1:24 in the actual event. The 400 FR must replace 2 members, one who split 44.7 and the other who was 46-low in the open. The slower of the 2 (which is still very quick) can be replaced by Rose, but i am having trouble replacing the other at this point. A couple months ago it was said that no relays would break records at MIAAs this year, and while the 200 MR seems to have a good chance with their mid season time, Hope hasn’t done anything to prove they will change it to break a relay record.

      I see 4 as the maximum number of records which will be set at MIAAs this year.

    • #32981
      Jabroni
      Member

      I’ll go along….but I’m not getting into the records convo.

      Albion: To the comment about Bacon being faster. I think Chase is in line with where he normally is in December. I would normally have to disagree with this statement except that Paul Krone was on fire. This means one of two things: 1) Albion was fully tapered and Bacon had an off meet, or 2) Albion wasn’t all the way down and Paul Krone will be a household name for the rest of the country in March.
      Grade (based on historical times at this time of the year): A-

      Hope: They didn’t show us any speed this weekend. For a sprint heavy team, 1:25 mid sure wasn’t that impressive for the guys they have on that relay. Granted two of them are newcomers and one I was unaware of as a 50 guy. Hope usually doesn’t blow anyone out of the water in December. I suspect they are content with their meet. Most guys were much faster at their December meet this year when compared to last year. Heyboer swam worse in a couple shorter events than he had already this season and better in some longer ones. I would guess a longer rest would be better for a kid like that.
      Grade: B+

      KZoo: It appears as though they were fully tapered. Great swims out of their army of breaststrokers and butterfliers. Fenwick was impressive. The Fonz didn’t disappoint. Ellis wasn’t too shabby either, I think his best swim was a 20.6 on their 200 Free Relay. No fly or 2 back out of Ellis though? An IM from the Dominican Wonder would have satisfied my weekend appetite as well. Their sprints weren’t quite where I expected them either. Hennigar and Dmitruk have a ways to go but Greiner stepped up. The rest of the country will be Hornet hunting in Houston after the breaststroke leg (no offense to impressive swims from Bobby Dekker). A step in the right direction. One other side note, it seems as though Kathy has done a better job of dropping again at a higher success rate for MIAAs.
      Grade: B+

      Calvin: Of the schools that had meets last weekend Calvin was the least impressive. In recent years we have seen some pretty good swims mixed in. It is apparent that they do not taper for EMU but I would’ve thought that they would’ve been looking for season best times. Maybe they were, but some earlier comments indicate that I’m not alone in being surprised by the lack of impressive swims. I did think Resseegie had a very nice meet though.

      Olivet: join the party, this season is long enough to rest in December.

      Alma: must have swum through.

    • #32982
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I do not think that Espinosa will ever break the breaststroke records.

      Considering how many times you have gone out of your way to post this (atleast three times), it is clear that you are either:

      1) In love with Josh Boss
      2) Racist
      3) Both

      You decide which one.

    • #32983

      While we are on the subject of Coach Kathy..

      I am glad to see that she is now getting full credit for her own efforts. She has now recruited every person on that team, so none of their swimmers could be thought of as a partial product of Kent. Obviously in her first two seasons that was not the case.

      It makes me think the ferocity of the old Hope-K rivalry will be revived soon enough which is something I think we would all like to see. In the next two or so years I foresee a Hope-K-Olivet hybrid rivalry with equal loathing on all fronts. Sweet.

    • #32984
      Insight
      Member

      I will not say anything is “impossible” or “ever” happen because there is so much uncertainty in swimming. However, I would be along the same line of thinking as Swim5599, and say Fonzi has a lot of wood to chop before he can break the records. 56.61 is a way off from 54.69, even the MIAA league record is a 55.01. If we would like a measuring stick it seems that Boss was a 55.00 at Wheaton (I got this from the meet record). To drop almost 2 seconds from a 100 that is already that quick is going to be tough. I don’t see him doing it.

      I didn’t mention the 2 breast at 2:07.29. I hope there is not an argument there since no one in D3 swimming histroy has ever come with in 1.1 seconds of that record.

    • #32985
      Insight
      Member

      Also, I would like to say that I am not a racist nor am I in love with Josh Boss.

    • #32986
      Low Tide
      Member

      I think Espinosa getting down to a 55 low is well within the realm of possibility by the time he graduates. Breaking that record would mean consistently dropping a half second each year, which not many can do when already at the speed he is at (Boss could not do that).

      Thus far, he still seems sprint inclined so I am not even sure he will beat Miller’s 200 varsity record, let alone Boss’.



      Kzoo suffered through the Kent –> Kathy transition years which is to be expected, but signs are definitely pointing to K getting right back there, and soon. I know if I were a stud flyer or sprinter coming out of highschool I would love the chance to get on a relay with Ellis and Espinosa… hell, I am considering coming out retirement it’s that exciting 🙂



      How the hell does Hope have a CAPTAIN quit? That is really embarrassing to the program. Gardner: Shame on you!

    • #32987
      silentp
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      While we are on the subject of Coach Kathy..

      I am glad to see that she is now getting full credit for her own efforts. She has now recruited every person on that team, so none of their swimmers could be thought of as a partial product of Kent. Obviously in her first two seasons that was not the case.

      It makes me think the ferocity of the old Hope-K rivalry will be revived soon enough which is something I think we would all like to see. In the next two or so years I foresee a Hope-K-Olivet hybrid rivalry with equal loathing on all fronts. Sweet.

      Actually, i was surprised at the lack of credit to Kathy for how quickly she has turned the team around after the transition where less recruiting than normal was done. (No offense to those members of the team as they have all made great strides.) After K picked up Ellis, everyone was quick to note it was not Kathy who got him and it was more luck. I am with you Captain, i think she’s done great, especially with the job Hope is doing and their fantastic freshmen class.



      Espinosa will never reach Boss’ 2breast, obviously, and i don’t think you’ll find someone to argue that he will. The question of the 100 comes to continually dropping time. After his freshman year, Boss didn’t drop much time and did have an off year where he added. (This doesn’t discount what he did, he was amazing, it’s just true.) Espinosa could drop time, or he could not. 56.6 is the same time Kurtz went his freshman year at EMU (he didn’t split 55.7 though), and then only drop half a second the rest of his career, with some time adds at some points. This guy has 4 years, so i won’t put him in the Boss realm yet, but his 50 certainly could be.

    • #32988
      maverick1
      Member

      the fonz is actually a full second faster than kurtz went as a froshie at emu…..his time was 57.57, still a damn good time for a freshman who barely broke a minute in high school.

      i think fonzi goes 55 this year at nats or miaas or both. the record would be amazing to see, but i think we’ll have to wait a few years still with him.

    • #32989
      swim5599
      Member

      Everyone agrees with me that his records are safe, I was just the one that said it first. So no I am not in love with Josh Boss nor am I a racist.

    • #32990
      swim5599
      Member

      I wish that saying you have a great 50 breast split meant something, but unfortunately it doesn’t really. Which is sad, because I was a pretty darn good 50 breaststroker.

    • #32991
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I wish that saying you have a great 50 breast split meant something, but unfortunately it doesn’t really. Which is sad, because I was a pretty darn good 50 breaststroker.

      It means something if you pop a 24-mid after your backstroker pops a 23-mid to take the lead at NCAAs…

    • #32992
      Stevo
      Member

      It means something if you pop a 24-mid after your backstroker pops a 23-mid to take the lead at NCAAs…

      How does the fairy tale end P?

      I am sure Kathy is heavily recruiting a stud sprint flyer and freestyler.

    • #32993
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      How does the fairy tale end P?

      I am sure Kathy is heavily recruiting a stud sprint flyer and freestyler.

      I really didn’t think it was much of a fairy tale to be leading at the 100 mark, in fact, i thought it was agreed by everyone that it was probable.

      As for the ending, everyone has their weaknesses throughout the country, a 21.2 out of greiner was nice and 22.7 from dekker was ok, no reason to believe they can’t improve. Who knows what will happen.

    • #32994
      swim5599
      Member

      what is Ellis’ best 50 back split? I could see them in the lead at the 100 mark.

    • #32995
      facenorth
      Member

      23.52 to the best of my knowledge.

    • #32996
      swim5599
      Member

      Ok so imagine they go 23.5 and 24.6, that puts them at 48.1. SO dekker goes 22.5 and the freestyler goes 20.9. That puts them at 1:31.5. On paper that might be good enough to win.

    • #32997
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      It means something if you pop a 24-mid after your backstroker pops a 23-mid to take the lead at NCAAs…

      How does the fairy tale end P?

      I am sure Kathy is heavily recruiting a stud sprint flyer and freestyler.

      No fairy tale Stevo. Ellis and Espinosa actually do swim for Kzoo. It is okay that you were confused, I can barely believe it myself.

    • #32998
      silentp
      Member

      @facenorth wrote:

      23.52 to the best of my knowledge.

      As far i know, that’s correct also. He also went 23.7 in that same meet, so it wasn’t a fluke swim it wouldn’t appear. He didn’t seem to have much speeding judging from his 50 free time, so i’d guess we could see quite a bit quicker 50 back split than 24.0 come MIAAs and perhaps NCAAs.

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