St. Olaf at Gustavus, 11/9/07

Forums Conferences Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference St. Olaf at Gustavus, 11/9/07

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    • #12738

      With the famed Ole vs. Gustie dual slated to take place in a mere 2 weeks and some change, what will be the “keys to the meet”?

      Obviously pulling in a solid freshman class to replace the graduated class will play a key role. With the graduation of Hagemeyer and Amundson and the true caliber of the freshman unknown, Gustavus is not a safe bet on the relays. The Oles could easily steal either the 200 FR or 400 FR, a huge point swing in the dual format.

      Also to consider: Home pool vs. Away pool. Does this make a difference at the D3 level? Looking back it seems to matter:

        1995 – L at GAC 96 – 143
        1996 – L at STO 82 – 140
        1997 – L at GAC 88 – 146
        1998 – L at STO 84 – 149
        1999 – W at GAC 128 – 115
        2000 – L at STO 137 – 106
        2001 – W at GAC 150 – 93
        2002 – W at STO 164 – 79
        2003 – L at GAC 109 – 134
        2004 – L at STO 95 – 148
        2005 – W at GAC 122 – 120
        2006 – L at STO 128 – 172

      Adding these up the Gusties are 3 – 3 at home and 1 – 5 away. The average margin for a win for GAC is 37.6 whereas the average win margin for STO is 50.

      In my opinion, being at Gustavus is a plus for both teams while being at Olaf only benefits the Oles. Gustavus has that home pool feel and Olaf has the benefit of swimming in a fast facility, even though they most be used to it. Being at Olaf hurts Gustavus because Olaf is used to the pool which, in my opinion, is quite sub-par for the caliber of program they have.

      So, to wrap this up I feel that the meet will largely be decided by the freshman classes stepping up, the Oles getting unexpected place jumps, and the atmosphere amongst the teams.

      Final Prediction: Gustavus Over Olaf by less than 30

    • #39513

      Dual meets are all about who wins each event. Depth plays less of a role.

      I think Olaf takes the relays, the back, breast, and sprints. The distance events will be close with their freshman pushing Hanson, Sky-Dave, and Wi-Dave (maybe Stewart too depending on what he swims).

      I haven’t scored it out (and won’t probably), but my early prediction is Olaf by more than 30.

      Plus even with Olaf losing divers, I’m sure they’ll outscore GAC.

    • #39514

      Assuming they follow the same format as last year’s dual, here’s what I’ve come up with. It was done quite hastily, so there could be an error in my math. If you disagree with my placing and provide sound reason, I will re-score it with your changes. Since I don’t know who the freshman are on either side, much less what they will be will be swimming, I’ve listed only places instead of names.


      Event GAC Places STO Places GAC STO
      200 MR 2 1, 3 4 13
      1000 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 19 17
      200 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 34 21
      100 Back 3, 4 1, 2, 5 39 35
      100 Breast 3, 4 1, 2, 5 44 49
      200 Fly 1, 2, 4 3, 5 59 53
      50 Free 2, 4 1, 3, 5 65 66
      Diving 1 2, 5 1, 3, 4 70 80
      100 Free 2, 5 1, 3, 4 75 94
      200 Back 2, 3 1, 4, 5 82 106
      200 Breast 3, 4 1, 2, 5 87 120
      500 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 102 124
      100 Fly 2, 3, 5 1, 4 110 135
      Diving 2 3, 5 1, 2, 4 114 150
      200 IM 2, 3 1, 4, 5 121 162
      400 FR 1, 3 2 134 166

      Final Score: 134 – 166
      Olaf Wins by 32

      Easiest way to make up points for Gustavus will be the 500 and 100 Free, as well as any moves they can make to move up a place. Taking 4th over 5th may only be one point, but it’s one more point for GAC and one less for STO. In the end, as it always with these two teams, every point is going to count.

    • #39515

      Nice breakdown.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      Assuming they follow the same format as last year’s dual, here’s what I’ve come up with. It was done quite hastily, so there could be an error in my math. If you disagree with my placing and provide sound reason, I will re-score it with your changes. Since I don’t know who the freshman are on either side, much less what they will be will be swimming, I’ve listed only places instead of names.


      Event GAC Places STO Places GAC STO
      200 MR 2 1, 3 4 13
      1000 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 19 17
      200 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 34 21
      100 Back 3, 4 1, 2, 5 39 35
      100 Breast 3, 4 1, 2, 5 44 49
      200 Fly 1, 2, 4 3, 5 59 53
      50 Free 2, 4 1, 3, 5 65 66
      Diving 1 2, 5 1, 3, 4 70 80
      100 Free 2, 5 1, 3, 4 75 94
      200 Back 2, 3 1, 4, 5 82 106
      200 Breast 3, 4 1, 2, 5 87 120
      500 Free 1, 2, 4 3, 5 102 124
      100 Fly 2, 3, 5 1, 4 110 135
      Diving 2 3, 5 1, 2, 4 114 150
      200 IM 2, 3 1, 4, 5 121 162
      400 FR 1, 3 2 134 166

      Final Score: 134 – 166
      Olaf Wins by 32

      Easiest way to make up points for Gustavus will be the 500 and 100 Free, as well as any moves they can make to move up a place. Taking 4th over 5th may only be one point, but it’s one more point for GAC and one less for STO. In the end, as it always with these two teams, every point is going to count.

    • #39516
      The Pork
      Member

      I gotta say I’m mega dissapointed I can’t make it to the meet this year. Even with that scoring I think it’ll be even closer and, personally, I’m not ruling out a Gustavus win. Two years ago Blaise couldn’t come and that ended up costing us the meet, so losing both divers is gonna be huge. I realize that losing the two clydesdales is also gonna have a big impact, and of course the home pool plays to Gustavus’ advantage (I think) so all in all it’s gonna be one hell of a meet, and after swimming in it for the last four years I know from experiences that it’s a lot more unpredictable when it’s in St. Peter.

    • #39517

      What is that Mac quote from? Did something get censored?

      Retired Clydesdale, I never said I was going to score out the meet. The forum was just looking for peoples opinions and I gave mine (with reasoning later supported by the actual scoring… and you seem to agree).

      Either way, after RGs scoring, I’d say this sets the spread for the meet to be 32. GAC moneyline would be +250.

    • #39518

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      What is that Mac quote from? Did something get censored?

      It would appear that Mac has censored himself. If you look at his last post which now simply states “Nice breakdown.”, you will notice at the bottom that he edited it Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 9:09 am. The original text followed the form of the Screwtape letters, originally written by C.S. Lewis. Since the post was edited, and as a moderator I will say for good reason, I will not repeat the text here.

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Either way, after RGs scoring, I’d say this sets the spread for the meet to be 32.

      So you agree with my placings and general means of scoring then?

    • #39519

      @The Pork wrote:

      … and after swimming in it for the last four years I know from experiences that it’s a lot more unpredictable when it’s in St. Peter.

      Are there any specific factors that you think make it so unpredictable? Atmosphere, pool quality, etc?

    • #39520

      RG, I trust your scoring for the most part. It supports my earlier thinking that Olaf wins by 30 (32).

      As for home pool advantage, I think it is non-existent unless the scoring changes. Like if GAC goes to some 8 lane scoring system (is there one?).

      It is not like screaming fans will cause you to go off-sides, or miss a free-throw. Maybe some freshman might get intimidated, but is that even very realistic? This is D-III swimming, not SEC football. I doubt Westby (or any other Ole) walks into the Lund Center pool and thinks “man these 150 fans are intimidating.”

      Only home pool advantage in the MIAC is St. Thomas (since the walls are very different for turns), and you only score 4 swimmers. And Mac used to be tough because you were not used to swimming meters.

    • #39521

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      As for home pool advantage, I think it is non-existent unless the scoring changes. Like if GAC goes to some 8 lane scoring system (is there one?).

      To the extent of my knowledge all D3 dual meets that take place in a pool with 6 or more lanes use the standard 9-4-3-2-1 scoring for individual events, and 11-4-2 for relays. As you mentioned, in the case of St. Thomas which has a 4 lane (correct me if I’m wrong) pool they use an alternate scoring system.

    • #39522
      silentp
      Member

      Will they be doing the “new” format for meets which involves both lenghts of strokes? If not, then whichever they choose could have a significant impact on the outcome.

      By the way, I took the Olies by less than 30 at the dual.

      What’s the spread on the women’s meet, which came down to someone falling in last year?

    • #39523

      @silentp wrote:

      Will they be doing the “new” format for meets which involves both lengths of strokes? If not, then whichever they choose could have a significant impact on the outcome.

      For the past few years they have done a 16 event meet with whatever length relays the coaches can agree on. Usually it’s 400s at Gustavus and 200s at Olaf by glancing at the results. Years ago (like 4 or 5) Olaf would never agree to a “short” meet since the Gusties were so strong in the sprints and Olaf was predominantly distance. Nowadays, the roles seem to be reversed.

      I think that the 16 event meet allows for both teams to show what they are made of, as well as allows all the athletes to compete in all of their events early in the season.

      @silentp wrote:

      What’s the spread on the women’s meet, which came down to someone falling in last year?

      That will take some research! I’ll see what I can do, probably a weekend project.

    • #39524

      The Gustavus/Olaf dual has usually been the 200 format since at least 1999 (probably longer then that). If the coaches cannot agree on a Format, the 200 format is the default (unless this has changed). In the past it was always to Olaf’s advantage to go with the 200 format because Gustavus has traditionally been known more for their sprinting (although this year I believe that Gustavus has a national top five distance group, possibly top 3).

      I think like some big football games they should move it to a neutral site, do the long format (both 100’s and 200’s). To increase international interest in DIII swimming, they should hold it in Mexico City, London, or possibly somewhere in China. Best possible location I think would be to build a temprary pool at the Excel center in St. Paul and swim there (since they lost the Olympic trials, I think this is a good alternative).

    • #39525

      Wow. Apparently we share a very similar thought pattern, ACT! We posted essentially the same thing, at the same time.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      I think like some big football games they should move it to a neutral site, do the long format (both 100’s and 200’s). To increase international interest in DIII swimming, they should hold it in Mexico City, London, or possibly somewhere in China. Best possible location I think would be to build a temprary pool at the Excel center in St. Paul and swim there (since they lost the Olympic trials, I think this is a good alternative).

      As amazing as this would be, I don’t think either school has the budget to host a meet at a neutral site. Especially if it’s out of the country! However, building a pool in the Excel parking lot sounds tangible given the right alumni support! How about it Ole/Gustie alums? Want to shell out the dough for this kind of move?

    • #39526

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      As you mentioned, in the case of St. Thomas which has a 4 lane (correct me if I’m wrong) pool they use an alternate scoring system.

      I think it is 5 lanes still, but usually only 4 can compete (sometimes one exhibition swimmer is allowed I think).

    • #39527

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      I think it is 5 lanes still, but usually only 4 can compete (sometimes one exhibition swimmer is allowed I think).

      I would like to add my insight here, but my posts are all being censored by Rustie Gustie.

    • #39528

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      Wow. Apparently we share a very similar thought pattern, ACT! We posted essentially the same thing, at the same time.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      I think like some big football games they should move it to a neutral site, do the long format (both 100’s and 200’s). To increase international interest in DIII swimming, they should hold it in Mexico City, London, or possibly somewhere in China. Best possible location I think would be to build a temprary pool at the Excel center in St. Paul and swim there (since they lost the Olympic trials, I think this is a good alternative).

      As amazing as this would be, I don’t think either school has the budget to host a meet at a neutral site. Especially if it’s out of the country! However, building a pool in the Excel parking lot sounds tangible given the right alumni support! How about it Ole/Gustie alums? Want to shell out the dough for this kind of move?

      I hope you know I was kidding and referencing the NFL’s plans.

      The trials pool would have actually been built inside the Excel. 18,000 fans strong. It would have been loud and crazy, but they are doing the same thing in Omaha.

    • #39529
      lane 6er
      Member

      Another advantage to the st. thomas pool is that everything is timed by hand, there is no timing sytem or touch pads. Finishes are at the starters disgression, even if the stopwatch times disagree. That is the ultimate home pool advantage!

    • #39530
      Tiger2
      Member

      Some dude named Lee Anderson just donated 60 million to St. Thomas.
      Do you think they’ll get a new pool?

    • #39531

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      I would like to add my insight here, but my posts are all being censored by Rustie Gustie.

      Only the ones containing foul language and direct attacks at other users.

    • #39532

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      I hope you know I was kidding and referencing the NFL’s plans.

      Yes, I did know that you were kidding. But, given enough support it could happen.

    • #39533

      @Tiger2 wrote:

      Some dude named Lee Anderson just donated 60 million to St. Thomas. Do you think they’ll get a new pool?

      For the sake of the Tommie program I sure hope so. The Tommies would have a real shot at becoming a powerful team if they could draw in high power recruits. If I were high end recruit, I think my visit would be just about over once I got into the pool area.

    • #39534
      The Pork
      Member

      I’m a little surprised that no one else but me thinks that home pool plays any sort of advantage here. When the meet is at St. Olaf, the fans pack the stands until it’s standing room only. Granted there is less room at Gustavus for as huge a fan base, but the gustavus fans, combined with the entire Gustavus team (yes, even the ‘h’ relays) can definitely psyche you out. Not to mention that this is the first dual meet of the season, the first college meet for the freshman, and when it’s not in your home pool it’s not very easy to relax and compete well.

      A couple of examples:
      Two years ago we lost for the first time in years for a number of reasons. One of the huge ones being that Paul Evensen had a rough first swim (with snapped goggles) and because of the atmosphere never really recovered. His goggles ended up breaking again in another race as well. Of course I’m not blaming the loss on him at all, but that’s just one example of the atmosphere playing a huge role.

      I don’t know if anyone else remembers the former St. Olaf sprinter Katy Brentz, but four years ago she stopped mid stroke in her fifty free, claiming she blacked out, only to get out at the other end fine as far as anyone could tell. That same year the St Olaf men won, but it was by a slim margin, and many of us weren’t even aware that we had won until we were on the bus back to Northfield because it was announced so quietly and the meet had been so close.

      Finally, I don’t know what anyone elses opinion is on it, but personally I always hated swimming in pools the slanted perpendicular to the lanes. I hate that lane 8 is around 14 feet deep and lane one is 4. I know it’s a fast pool, but I’d rather take a old, tiled, drop-off-at 15 yards pool, anyday.

      SO, with so many changes on both sides, I think the home pool gives Gustavus a bit of an edge, but St. Olaf is typically in such good form so early in the season and so psyched up for this meet that I’m not ready to predict a winner.

    • #39535

      @The Pork wrote:

      … but St. Olaf is typically in such good form so early in the season …

      I’ve noticed this as well. Last year Koch swam an insane 50 in 21.14 after splitting a 21.05 on their medley relay. Joe was a 1:45.55 in the 200, Meyer was a 52.4 in the 100 back, and the list goes on.

      Without giving away any of the Hauck’s training secrets (unless you want to), what can you attribute this kind of very early season performance to? Is it just the atmosphere surrounding the meet that gives everyone a little energy boost? Or is just very solid early season training? In reading past posts, it sounds like the Oles did some sort of crazy chant/dance ritual before the meet last year, could this have attributed to Koch’s 21.1 and like swims?

    • #39536

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      I would like to add my insight here, but my posts are all being censored by Rustie Gustie.

      Only the ones containing foul language and direct attacks at other users.

      Pansy is not foul language. Calling someone a pansy in real life is hardly an attack. Calling someone a homeschooled pansy on an anonymous message board is about as tame as you can get. And pretty funny. We don’t use real names here. So grow up a bit. Censoring my posts, then posting to the board your side of the story is cowardly, and an abuse of your lame moderator priviledges.

      Now getting to the thread, as I, as ever, have some insight here. UST is getting a new pool. The current pool leaks upwards of 100 gallons of water per day. The 60M gift was not for the pool. It was for a new student center. UST has raided 310M over the last three years for a variety of purposes, and a new athletic complex is one of them. They will probably break ground in 2010.

      As to home pool advantage, I just don’t get it. You all swim in the same pool. I can see how some swimmers swim better in some pools than others, but it probably weighs itself out. I’m sure the home team, especially in the Olaf case tapers a bit for the big GAC duel, and that is an advantage, but that advantage is not attributed to the pool.

    • #39537
      delmonte
      Member

      I agree with Mac of the MIAC. He is the funniest thing on this board. If you are editing his posts: knock it off.

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      I would like to add my insight here, but my posts are all being censored by Rustie Gustie.

      Only the ones containing foul language and direct attacks at other users.

      Pansy is not foul language. Calling someone a pansy in real life is hardly an attack. Calling someone a homeschooled pansy on an anonymous message board is about as tame as you can get. And pretty funny. We don’t use real names here. So grow up a bit. Censoring my posts, then posting to the board your side of the story is cowardly, and an abuse of your lame moderator priviledges.

      Now getting to the thread, as I, as ever, have some insight here. UST is getting a new pool. The current pool leaks upwards of 100 gallons of water per day. The 60M gift was not for the pool. It was for a new student center. UST has raided 310M over the last three years for a variety of purposes, and a new athletic complex is one of them. They will probably break ground in 2010.

      As to home pool advantage, I just don’t get it. You all swim in the same pool. I can see how some swimmers swim better in some pools than others, but it probably weighs itself out. I’m sure the home team, especially in the Olaf case tapers a bit for the big GAC duel, and that is an advantage, but that advantage is not attributed to the pool.

    • #39538

      I think Mac’s posts are funny and good for the forum. He’s like the Yankees, or Dane Cook, or Communism, or Colonel Jessop… you love to hate him.

      So what if he rips on some anonymous person for their post? They can rip on him back.

      Mac, you do cross the line sometimes, but that is what keeps your edge and makes you a dick.

      Most people know I’m a Mac fan anyway, so my opinion may not count for much.

      As for Olaf swimming fast, I wonder if it has to do with off-season training. Since I never worked out in the off-season, swimming 3-4K practices at the beginning of the year was hard as crap. But if I had been swimming all year, a 3-4K practice would feel like taper. So maybe these guys are sort of tapered. I don’t know their workouts though, so that is purely speculation.

      As for the “dance” they did before last years meet, I can see how it pumped them up, but no more than listening to some Rage before a swim would.

    • #39539
      The Treat
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      As to home pool advantage, I just don’t get it. You all swim in the same pool. I can see how some swimmers swim better in some pools than others, but it probably weighs itself out. I’m sure the home team, especially in the Olaf case tapers a bit for the big GAC duel, and that is an advantage, but that advantage is not attributed to the pool.

      the only possible situation where i can see home pool advantage is if they’ve got crappy blocks/walls. if the blocks are tricky to get used to or if the wall is particularly slippery, using them every day will definitely help.

      the only other thing is that if there is a ton of people cheering you on, maybe, just maybe, you get an adrenaline rush and swim faster.

    • #39540
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      The notion of a “home pool advantage” in D3 swimming is ridiculous unless: A. As mentioned, your pool is crappy and the away team is not used to it 2. The away team has to travel 3+ hours on a stinky bus at 6 a.m. (St. John’s relays, Winona, or some ridiculous invite in Wisconsin) or iii. The swimmers on your team are mental enough to be psyched out by the other teams parents, and 100 nerds who go to a swim meet on a Friday night/Saturday morning. (Closed Circuit to moderator: Please don’t censor this post for me calling someone a nerd. Especially since I am one of them.)

      With that said, I think it would be awesome if this dual meet was moved to the U of M, or a similar place. Granted, this meet wouldn’t fill one half of one side of the U, but both St. Olaf and Gustavus are woefully inadaquate (sp? I never spell that right) from a spectator’s standpoint. St. Olaf is packed at 5:00 and the over flow are stuck in the hall, and GAC has even less space, so if don’t get there an hour early your stuck behind the glass where you don’t know what is going on.

      Olaf +30 I hope I’m wrong.

    • #39541

      JC really needs to swim Matt Stewart in the 50 & 100. He needs to win, and I think he can. Giving two wins to Koch will seal it for Olaf.

      Are they swimming 100’s or 200’s?

      Also, just so I understand the new rules imposed by the irresolute fascist, Rustie Gustie, if I call someone, say, a nerd, like crunchysock did, then also call myself the same name, will my post get deleted? I’ve got a fan base to please, and I need to fully understand these seemingly arbitrary new standards.

      @CRUNCHYSOCK wrote:

      The notion of a “home pool advantage” in D3 swimming is ridiculous unless: A. As mentioned, your pool is crappy and the away team is not used to it 2. The away team has to travel 3+ hours on a stinky bus at 6 a.m. (St. John’s relays, Winona, or some ridiculous invite in Wisconsin) or iii. The swimmers on your team are mental enough to be psyched out by the other teams parents, and 100 nerds who go to a swim meet on a Friday night/Saturday morning. (Closed Circuit to moderator: Please don’t censor this post for me calling someone a nerd. Especially since I am one of them.)

      With that said, I think it would be awesome if this dual meet was moved to the U of M, or a similar place. Granted, this meet wouldn’t fill one half of one side of the U, but both St. Olaf and Gustavus are woefully inadaquate (sp? I never spell that right) from a spectator’s standpoint. St. Olaf is packed at 5:00 and the over flow are stuck in the hall, and GAC has even less space, so if don’t get there an hour early your stuck behind the glass where you don’t know what is going on.

      Olaf +30 I hope I’m wrong.

    • #39542

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      JC really needs to swim Matt Stewart in the 50 & 100. He needs to win, and I think he can. Giving two wins to Koch will seal it for Olaf.

      Do you think that Stewart would be able to compete with Koch at these distances? In the 100 possibly since Stewart led off their 400 FR at NCAAs in 45.7, but I don’t think he’s got the “giddy up” to hang with Koch if he swims like he did last year; a 21.14 in the 50.

    • #39543

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Also, just so I understand the new rules imposed by the irresolute fascist, Rustie Gustie, if I call someone, say, a nerd, like crunchysock did, then also call myself the same name, will my post get deleted? I’ve got a fan base to please, and I need to fully understand these seemingly arbitrary new standards.

      There is no need to call yourself the same name. You may post as you see fit. If you could try to keep it at least somewhat relevant and free of the more colorful language I’d appreciate it. Just because I censored you at one point, doesn’t mean that I’m not a fan myself.

    • #39544
      The Pork
      Member

      Alright, I know I’m standing alone on this, but I still stand by my home pool advantage, at least when it comes to the St Olaf/GAC meet. I would however like to clarify that I don’t think it has anything to do with the actual pool itself. Has it ever occurred to any of you how much of a mental sport swimming is? I for one have never bought too much into a pool making anyone that much faster, I’m sure some are with the money spent on them, but a crowd and unfamiliarity with a facility can throw you off. My first college dual meet was Vs Gac at St. Peter and I swam like complete ass. I’m just saying I think the atmosphere can get to you.

      As for St. Olaf tapering for the GAC meet, it’s all just rumor. We work hard at the beginning of the season just like everyone else, and as someone who never really trained in the off season, I was usually struggling a bit, but that meet just seems to bring out some sort of inner competitive rage that we only release once a year. And again, the atmosphere when it’s at St. Olaf always gives that extra adrenaline rush. I’ll be interested to see what kind of times are swam this year at GAC.

      Lastly, I’m with Chapel Partner and delmonte on letting Mac be Mac. Even though a lot of his posts are shrouded with unnecessary wit and degradation, most of the time they are not only entertaining, but also pretty insightful. Can we give some sort of cap? Like maybe he could use just one swear word per post, just like a PG-13 movie. Or just go through and delete any single word that you find offensive and give his posts a delightfully discontinuous feel. Plus, he gives tons of fodder to Chapel Partner who, as long as we’re picking forum favorites here, I’m choosing to nominate as best poster.

    • #39545

      @The Pork wrote:

      Has it ever occurred to any of you how much of a mental sport swimming is?

      I couldn’t agree more. If your head is not in in the right place before an event, you’re not going to perform your best. I, for one, believe that the suits put out by Speedo, TYR, Nike, etc all aid in this manner. The suits may be sprayed with something that repels water, contain imitation shark dimples, be made of a new material, have a new weave and the list to goes on and on. In my opinion these advantages only account for about 20 – 30 percent of the time drops seen when wearing them. The rest of it I attribute to championship meet atmosphere and huge boost on the mental side you get from wearing one. If you’re standing behind the blocks in a crazy atmosphere, wearing a $200 suit that has promised to make you faster, and a full shave and a taper it does something to your mind that you can’t get another way.

      @The Pork wrote:

      As for St. Olaf tapering for the GAC meet, it’s all just rumor.

      I never believed it when I heard it. I couldn’t imagine Olaf having the caliber of team that they do with a taper one month into the training. The Hauck’s are much too good of coaches to think that this a good idea.

      @ThePork wrote:

      Lastly, I’m with Chapel Partner and delmonte on letting Mac be Mac. Even though a lot of his posts are shrouded with unnecessary wit and degradation, most of the time they are not only entertaining, but also pretty insightful.

      Your voices have been heard. Everyone may post as they see fit and I apologize for my earlier action. I originally thought that more people would be offended, but I see now that his posts mean a lot to this board and to many of you. If things start getting out of control, and by this I mean other users or the Admins saying something, then I will intervene.

    • #39546

      Matt Stewart trains hard in the summer. His best meets are at the start of the year, and at the end.

      Hanson can win the 200 and the 500, as long as he can get under 4:45 to beat Bateman. Stewart won’t beat Westby in the 100 fly. At this point in the year, I’d send him out to get 2 wins against Koch. He is GAC’s best swimmer, and taking a win away from a teammate in a distance event, and taking a close second to Westby in the fly isn’t maxamizing his points.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      JC really needs to swim Matt Stewart in the 50 & 100. He needs to win, and I think he can. Giving two wins to Koch will seal it for Olaf.

      Do you think that Stewart would be able to compete with Koch at these distances? In the 100 possibly since Stewart led off their 400 FR at NCAAs in 45.7, but I don’t think he’s got the “giddy up” to hang with Koch if he swims like he did last year; a 21.14 in the 50.

    • #39547

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Matt Stewart trains hard in the summer. His best meets are at the start of the year, and at the end.

      Definitely agree with you here. It’s almost as though the harder he trains the faster he gets. Most people would start to swim slower as they break down over the course of the season, but Stewart seems to not follow this pattern. Once the season is underway, he swims fast all year. Then when taper hits, he takes off like a rocket.

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Hanson can win the 200 and the 500, as long as he can get under 4:45 to beat Bateman. Stewart won’t beat Westby in the 100 fly. At this point in the year, I’d send him out to get 2 wins against Koch. He is GAC’s best swimmer, and taking a win away from a teammate in a distance event, and taking a close second to Westby in the fly isn’t maxamizing his points.

      I would agree with you that putting him in an event to replace another Gustie probably isn’t the best course of action. Especially with the dual meet scoring, even if you only take first you win the event 10 – 9 by default since the other team can only score 3 people. If Stewart can knock off Koch in one or both of the sprints, this would be a huge point swing, not to mention the momentum shift. And as far as Hanson being able to takeout Bateman, if you’ve ever seen the kid swim you know that he can find a final 50 like nobody else. If Hanson is in his usual form, he takes the 500.

    • #39548
      silentp
      Member

      No way Stewart beats Koch in this dual, in the 50. 100 would be very possible, if not likely, but Koch will win the 50 no matter who is swimming it.

    • #39549

      @silentp wrote:

      No way Stewart beats Koch in this dual, in the 50. 100 would be very possible, if not likely, but Koch will win the 50 no matter who is swimming it.

      There are so many things that have to right in such a short period of time for a 50 to be great that I think Stewart would have a chance. It’s small, like winning the Powerball or getting struck by lightening, but it’s there. Koch misses his wall, slips on the start, can’t find his sprint stroke, goggles peel off, etc… I’m not saying it’s likely, because I don’t think it is, but it is possible.

    • #39550

      I think Mac is on to something. Why not have Stewart face Koch?

      I think both Koch and Stewart could split 21.mid-low… if that is the case, then it comes down to who can touch the other guy out.

      In the 100, I’d put even money on those two head-to head. Stewart ‘s lead-off on the relay at conference last year was a 46.03 (Koch was 46.25 open). I don’t know how they did at Nats, but I’d take 50-50 on Stewart winning the 100 versus taking points away from Hanson in the distance events.

      If they swim 200s, then you have Cuevas and Zeigler going 1-2 in the 200 fly I think… so no need to put Stewart there.

      If GAC wants to win this meet, they need to go with the 200 format. Even then it will be tough.

    • #39551
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I agree with Stewart taking on Koch in the sprints for a few reasons. The 50 is such a mind game, and Stewart has nothing to lose. Koch is expected to win. Stewart trains hard all year long and he is a racer. I think he could take it based on that fact alone.

      I remember a SJU dual against SCSU years ago. The SCSU coach asked the SJU Coach if we were ready to get our butts kicked. We put our 200 flyer, Steve Espeland, in the mile against their top guy who was clearly faster. Steve was one of our hardest workers though, you have to be to swim the 200 fly, and he ended up winning it after being down by 3 body lengths early in the race. Zelen won his races, I won my races, and it came down to the 400 free relay, which we took.

      Sometimes you have to take a chance or two. If Stewart ends up taking second, it really doesn’t hurt because they would have gotten 2nd place points somewhere else. But if he takes both of those races, it could mean the difference.

    • #39552

      @silentp wrote:

      No way Stewart beats Koch in this dual, in the 50. 100 would be very possible, if not likely, but Koch will win the 50 no matter who is swimming it.

      That’s a very concrete thing to say about the best swimmer GAC has ever had, and a top 8 swimmer in D3. Furthermore, you completely missed my point, which is, Stewart does not add value to other races.

      GAC has distance locked. GAC has Zieglar in the fly. What GAC doesn’t have is someone who can compete for first in the 50/100 free. Oh wait… they do. His name is Matt Stewart, and last time I checked, dude busted off a 1:39 in the 200 Free. To say that he can’t compete with a consolation heat 50 swimmer in one of his top 5 events makes no sense.

      Also, I believe wonderboy is Stewart’s club coach, so I’m going to defer to his opinion on this. Especially since it aligns with my own.

    • #39553

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      To say that he can’t compete with a consolation heat 50 swimmer in one of his top 5 events makes no sense.

      I may have misunderstood what you were going for here, but I think you’re saying that Koch is a consols heat swimmer which is in no way accurate. If that’s not what you were saying, please disregard everything I’m about to say.

      Koch was in the finals heat for the 50, 100, and 200 last year, losing only to Hagemeyer and Amundson in the first two, and Hanson in the third. The year before that he was finals heats of all three as well, losing only to Hagemeyer in the 50, winning the 100, and losing to Hanson and Burgess (HAM) in the 200.

      Out of the people who have beat him in the last 2 years, only Hanson and Burgess, who hasn’t put up much in the way of times as of late, remain. As it stands with no performances recorded and only graduation to go by, Koch is the sprint king in the MIAC until proven otherwise.

    • #39554

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      GAC has distance locked.

      What about your boy Bateman? He could throw a wrench in those plans quite easily.

    • #39555

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      @silentp wrote:

      Also, I believe wonderboy is Stewart’s club coach, so I’m going to defer to his opinion on this. Especially since it aligns with my own.

      Stewart swam with Blackdog Aquatics if I am correct. I don’t think Rocky posts on this site. Maybe the Burnsville High School coach or an assistant at Blackdog.

      I like Stewart swimming the 100 free, It is a great idea. If he takes Koch down, that can be a big blow to Olaf. If Carlson thinks he can go 2-3-4 in the 50 or evern 2-3-5, he limits his losses. Putting Hanson and the Davis Brothers in the 1000 could be a 1-2-3 finish (or even 1-2-4) and Stewart and whoever else in the 200 free is a lot of points that is hard for Olaf to make up. Limit the loss in the 500, Stewart wins the 100, then those three races can off set the 200 back and breast.

      I think this meet will be a meet of large point swings, when ever a team wis and event they will go 1-2, or 1-3. If Stewart swims the 100 free and this is a 200 meet, I see the big point swings being

      For GAC- 1000, 500, 200, 200 fly
      St. Olaf- 200 back, Breast, and IM, and Medlay relay (I think Olaf may go 1-2 again, but they may move Koch to the free relay to try and upset the GAC relay, which would make it harder for them to go 1-2).

    • #39556

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      GAC has distance locked.

      What about your boy Bateman? He could throw a wrench in those plans quite easily.

      Danny Okeefe is a 4:46 500 free. He’ll compete with Whitaker for 4th. Bateman could win, but will likely by 2nd or 3rd.

    • #39557

      I meant, console heat of nationals. And having done actual research, Koch was 29th in the 50 last year. Stewart will compete to win 3 races at nationals this year. He is a tier above Koch as a swimmer and can probably beat him in every event.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      I may have misunderstood what you were going for here, but I think you’re saying that Koch is a consols heat swimmer which is in no way accurate. If that’s not what you were saying, please disregard everything I’m about to say.

      Koch was in the finals heat for the 50, 100, and 200 last year, losing only to Hagemeyer and Amundson in the first two, and Hanson in the third. The year before that he was finals heats of all three as well, losing only to Hagemeyer in the 50, winning the 100, and losing to Hanson and Burgess (HAM) in the 200.

      Out of the people who have beat him in the last 2 years, only Hanson and Burgess, who hasn’t put up much in the way of times as of late, remain. As it stands with no performances recorded and only graduation to go by, Koch is the sprint king in the MIAC until proven otherwise.

    • #39558

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      I meant, console heat of nationals. And having done actual research, Koch was 29th in the 50 last year. Stewart will compete to win 3 races at nationals this year. He is a tier above Koch as a swimmer and can probably beat him in every event.

      I see what you mean now and agree with you right up to the last sentence. I still maintain that as an accomplished and trained 50 swimmer, Koch wins more often than not against Stewart who is a very accomplished and trained mid-D guy who can do the 100.

    • #39559

      I could see GAC picking up 8 in diving, and 10 in the 50 free if Stewart wins. That puts it even. If GAC can’t pick up points in diving, JC should consider putting Hanson in the 200 breast and hope Sky-Dave can take down the 500 on his own.

      Olaf 123 GAC 113

      200 MR Olaf 11, GAC 6
      Olaf 11
      GAC 4
      GAC 2

      50 Free Olaf 10, GAC 9
      Koch Olaf 9
      Stewart GAC 4
      Ayueng GAC 3
      Defranco GAC 2
      Edwards OLAF 1

      100 Free Olaf 5, GAC 14
      Stewart GAC 9
      Koch Olaf 4
      Wakefield GAC 3
      Ayueng GAC 2
      Edwards OLAF 1

      200 Free Olaf 1, GAC 15
      Hanson GAC 9
      Cuevas GAC 4
      Edwards OLAF 3
      Wakefield GAC 2
      Okeefe Olaf 1

      500 Free Olaf 5, GAC 14
      Hanson GAC 9
      Bateman Olaf 4
      S. Davis GAC 3
      W. Davis GAC 2
      Okeefe Olaf 1

      1000 Free Olaf 6, GAC 6
      S. Davis GAC 9
      Bateman Olaf 4
      W. Davis GAC 3
      Okeefe Olaf 2
      Rice GAC 1

      200 Back Olaf 12, GAC 7
      Meyer Olaf 9
      Pokorski GAC 4
      Moe-Lobeda Olaf 3
      Norquist GAC 2
      Kirihara GAC 1

      200 Breast Olaf 16, GAC 3
      Westby Olaf 9
      Bently Olaf 4
      Rheinhart Olaf 3
      Manley Olaf 0
      Mikkelson GAC 1

      200 Fly Olaf 4, GAC 15
      Zieglar GAC 9
      Cuevas GAC 4
      Money Olaf 3
      Eleinkwitch GAC 2
      Horn GAC 0

      200 IM Olaf 16, GAC 3
      Westby Olaf 9
      Bently Olaf 4
      Manly Olaf 3
      Pearson GAC 2
      Mikkelson GAC 1

      1M Diving Olaf 15, GAC 4
      Olaf 9
      Olaf 4
      GAC 3
      Olaf 2
      GAC 1

      3M Diving Olaf 15, GAC 4
      Olaf
      Olaf
      GAC
      Olaf
      GAC

      400 FR Olaf 4, GAC 13
      GAC 11
      Olaf 4
      GAC 2

      9,4,3,2,1
      11,4,2

    • #39560

      Do you think GAC has the strokers to pull of a 2-3 finish in a Med relay against Olaf? I don’t. I see Olaf taking the Med Relay 1 – 3 if it’s a 200, 1 – 2 if it’s a 400.

    • #39561
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Just for clarification, I did coach a couple of the Gusties, but not Stewart. I have seen him race many times though and I know his club coach. Stewart has such a long background in swimming and he’s versatile. Koch is a well-trained sprinter. Stewart doesn’t swim the 50 because he’s so good at other events. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t swim the 50 or that he can’t beat Koch. Stewart’s experience gives him a shot every time he steps on the blocks, though I agree his chances are better in the 100.

    • #39562

      What about Stewart in the 100 & 200, and throwing Hanson into the 200 breast. Could Hanson beat Bently for 2nd?

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Just for clarification, I did coach a couple of the Gusties, but not Stewart. I have seen him race many times though and I know his club coach. Stewart has such a long background in swimming and he’s versatile. Koch is a well-trained sprinter. Stewart doesn’t swim the 50 because he’s so good at other events. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t swim the 50 or that he can’t beat Koch. Stewart’s experience gives him a shot every time he steps on the blocks, though I agree his chances are better in the 100.

    • #39563

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      What about Stewart in the 100 & 200, and throwing Hanson into the 200 breast. Could Hanson beat Bently for 2nd?

      That’s a close one. In my mind this one goes to Bentley. Hanson rarely swims breaststroke, especially the 200, and I would imagine does little to none of the “choice stroke” sets breast in practice. Bentley on the other hand swam the 100 breast in 59.34 and the 200 in 2:11.66 last year at Conference taking third in both. These two swims were somewhat of a surprise to the Gusties and played a huge part in Olaf’s victory. I don’t know what Hanson’s best time is in the 200 Br, let alone if he even has one, but I’m guessing it’s not in the same range as Bentley’s. I don’t think Bentley will swim a 2:11 in a week, but I don’t think Hanson will take 2nd either.

    • #39564

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Olaf 121 GAC 112

      Mac, you will have to redo your scroring. In some events you have either 4 Gusties scoring or 4 Olies (200 breast and 200 fly). Even if each team swims 4 per event, you can only score 3. Also in the 200 free you are missing 3 points.

    • #39565

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      Mac, you will have to redo your scroring. In some events you have either 4 Gusties scoring or 4 Olies (200 breast and 200 fly). Even if each team swims 4 per event, you can only score 3. Also in the 200 free you are missing 3 points.

      Making the following changes:

      200 Free Olaf 4, GAC 15 (3 more for Olaf)
      Hanson GAC 9
      Cuevas GAC 4
      Someone Olaf 3
      Wakefield GAC 2
      Okeefe Olaf 1

      200 Breast Olaf 16, GAC 3 (1 less for Olaf, 1 more GAC)
      Westby Olaf 9
      Bently Olaf 4
      Rheinhart Olaf 3
      Mikkelson GAC 2
      Someone GAC 1

      200 Fly Olaf 4, GAC 15 (1 less GAC, 1 more Olaf)
      Zieglar GAC 9
      Cuevas GAC 4
      Money Olaf 3
      Eleinkwitch GAC 2
      Someone Olaf 1

      Olaf 123 – GAC 113

    • #39566

      Thanks for the clarification. This is corrected.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Olaf 121 GAC 112

      Mac, you will have to redo your scroring. In some events you have either 4 Gusties scoring or 4 Olies (200 breast and 200 fly). Even if each team swims 4 per event, you can only score 3. Also in the 200 free you are missing 3 points.

    • #39567
      swim5599
      Member

      Any guy that goes 45.7 in the 100 is capable of pulling off a good enough 50 to win at this meet. If Stewart swims it I see him going about 21.3. Is that faster then Koch’s 21.1 last year no, but it might be good enough to win this year.

    • #39568
      Tiger2
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      What about Stewart in the 100 & 200, and throwing Hanson into the 200 breast. Could Hanson beat Bently for 2nd?

      I think it will most likely be a 16-event meet, which means Hanson can’t swim the 200 breast, because the 500 is right after the 200 breast.

    • #39569
      lirpa
      Member

      Based on the events above by Mac, what do you think Westby could do in a 200 fly? Could he beat Ziegler?

      Wins are super-valuable in a dual meet, and if Olaf has the top spots locked up in 200 breast or im would it be worth throwing Westby in the 200 fly to try and take that one as well?

      I don’t have the depth of knowledge of these two teams like some of you, so it might be completely crazy

    • #39570
      Eladron
      Member

      Based on his time last year putting Westby in the 200 Fly would not be the best choice. Then again maybe he practiced it in the off season and would be able to kick some ass. Who knows?

    • #39571
      silentp
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I remember a SJU dual against SCSU years ago. The SCSU coach asked the SJU Coach if we were ready to get our butts kicked. We put our 200 flyer, Steve Espeland, in the mile against their top guy who was clearly faster. Steve was one of our hardest workers though, you have to be to swim the 200 fly, and he ended up winning it after being down by 3 body lengths early in the race. Zelen won his races, I won my races, and it came down to the 400 free relay, which we took.

      Wow, a Steve Espeland reference. We graduated from the same high school, even though he graduated several years before I did. Great guy.

    • #39572
      thatguy
      Member

      Not gonna lie, I’m fighting back a little bit of a chub reading about this meet. I guess that’s why I’m coming back to watch it. That and all the hot GAC tail that’s supposedly running around campus. Not that any of it will be actually watching the meet.

    • #39573

      @Tiger2 wrote:

      I think it will most likely be a 16-event meet, which means Hanson can’t swim the 200 breast, because the 500 is right after the 200 breast.

      Pokorski did the 1650 and the 2 back, back-to-back at Conference last year without a problem. What would stop Hanson from doing the 200 Breast and the 500 back-to-back? He’s more than used to swimming through pain. I doubt it would affect him much. And if it’s the difference between winning and losing the meet, he can make it happen in both events.

    • #39574

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Any guy that goes 45.7 in the 100 is capable of pulling off a good enough 50 to win at this meet. If Stewart swims it I see him going about 21.3. Is that faster then Koch’s 21.1 last year no, but it might be good enough to win this year.

      I still don’t think that having a solid 100 is indicative of a solid 50. While both sprint events, they just aren’t the same. Koch stepped up for this meet last year, and will step up again. Should Stewart be put in to challenge him my predictions would be: 100 goes to Stewart by less than .5; 50 goes to Koch by .3 or more.

    • #39575

      @lirpa wrote:

      Based on the events above by Mac, what do you think Westby could do in a 200 fly? Could he beat Ziegler?

      I agree with Eladron. Putting Westby here is not the best choice. While he would challenge Ziegler, he most likely wouldn’t win, meaning his time and effort would be better spend elsewhere.

    • #39576

      @thatguy wrote:

      That and all the hot GAC tail that’s supposedly running around campus.

      Isn’t that the best thing about college girls? Once you graduate you keep getting older, but they stay the same age!

    • #39577

      Swimming back-to-back at conference is a lot different than a dual meet. Conference has boner heats, award ceremonies, and other stuff.

      Correct me if I am wrong that the women swim the events first, right? If not, he could rest for an extra 7 minutes or so. But if all he gets is to rest while the Women swim the 200, he’d be super tired and probably get smoked.

      Do we know for sure what events they are swimming yet? 200s? 100s? Both?

    • #39578

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Swimming back-to-back at conference is a lot different than a dual meet. Conference has boner heats, award ceremonies, and other stuff.

      True, but that’s if you get those little perks. If I remember right, he only had the women’s heats of the 2 back before he swam. I figure that swimming a mile, which trashes your whole body, followed by a 2 back, which trashes your legs, with 2 heats of women between is probably comparable, if not worse, than swimming the 2 breast followed by 500 with only one women’s heat between. I think Pokorski checks this site, maybe he can post what actually happened since my memory is a little fuzzy…

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Correct me if I am wrong that the women swim the events first, right?

      Correct.

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Do we know for sure what events they are swimming yet? 200s? 100s? Both?

      I’ve been trying to find out, but have so far been striking out. Nobody seems to know amongst the current swimmers and alumni from both sides what’s going on. I’m guessing that either Carlson and Hauck are still fighting over the format, or they won’t pick until the day of the meet.

    • #39579
      Tiger2
      Member

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      Pokorski did the 1650 and the 2 back, back-to-back at Conference last year without a problem. What would stop Hanson from doing the 200 Breast and the 500 back-to-back?

      I doubt that anyone was counting on Pokorski to take first place in the 2 back at conference. All he needed to do was swim prelims fast enough to make the finals heat, and he didn’t have to swim the 1650 before prelims.
      Hanson absolutely must win the 500, so Carlson is not going to take any chances by putting him in an event right before the 500.

    • #39580

      @Tiger2 wrote:

      I doubt that anyone was counting on Pokorski to take first place in the 2 back at conference. All he needed to do was swim prelims fast enough to make the finals heat, and he didn’t have to swim the 1650 before prelims. Hanson absolutely must win the 500, so Carlson is not going to take any chances by putting him in an event right before the 500.

      Good point, Tiger2. As much of a competitor as Hanson is, even he would need to be as rested as possible before the 5 if he’s going to win and this meet is going to pan out in Gustavus’ favor. Swimming him the in the 2 breast probably is not a wise choice.

    • #39581

      Talked to my sources…

      No decision on the format yet, but the default is swimming both 100s and 200s (is this right?). I’ve heard rumblings of doing the 2-Med and 4-Free relays. This could change depending on how people swim this weekend.

      As for Stewart, I’m hearing some things that he MIGHT swim the 100, but would most likely not swim the 50.

    • #39582
      silentp
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Talked to my sources…

      No decision on the format yet, but the default is swimming both 100s and 200s (is this right?). I’ve heard rumblings of doing the 2-Med and 4-Free relays. This could change depending on how people swim this weekend.

      As for Stewart, I’m hearing some things that he MIGHT swim the 100, but would most likely not swim the 50.

      The default is both, that is correct.

      Why would Stewart not swim the 100? Seems like the only event that he is really good at where GAC doesn’t have someone else who would win it… unless they aren’t sure Hanson can win the 500, but I think it’s a risk you have to take. They wouldn’t have him try backstroke would they?

    • #39583

      Maybe I shouldn’t have capitalized “MIGHT”… I actually think he will swim it.

    • #39584

      @silentp wrote:

      They wouldn’t have him try backstroke would they?

      For their sake, let’s hope not. I don’t mean to imply that he’s not a good backstroker, rather I think his talents could be put to better use in other events.

    • #39585

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @silentp wrote:

      They wouldn’t have him try backstroke would they?

      For their sake, let’s hope not. I don’t mean to imply that he’s not a good backstroker, rather I think his talents could be put to better use in other events.

      Stewart is a big talent. I think whatever they put him in he could possibly win. That is why I am making the bold prediction he is put in both the 1m and 3m along with the 200 breast.

    • #39586
      Tiger2
      Member

      ok I’m prepared to be shot down here, but I do believe there are people on this forum who have an interest in the outcome of the women’s meet as well.
      So what are your thoughts?
      Last year the women’s meet was extremely close, coming down to the last relay and a DQ. Is there a chance it could be as close this year, or will Olaf’s strong freshmen class bring on a landslide?

    • #39587

      @Tiger2 wrote:

      ok I’m prepared to be shot down here, but I do believe there are people on this forum who have an interest in the outcome of the women’s meet as well.
      So what are your thoughts?
      Last year the women’s meet was extremely close, coming down to the last relay and a DQ. Is there a chance it could be as close this year, or will Olaf’s strong freshmen class bring on a landslide?

      Knowing little about the women’s team at Gustavus and next to nothing about the women’s team at Olaf, I can’t really provide any definitive analysis here. Having looked over both rosters to see what graduated and the quantity of freshman coming in, I’m prepared to shoot from the hip and guess. My prediction is that the Ole win women in convincing, but not landslide, fashion.

    • #39588
      silentp
      Member

      This is a battle, on the women’s side, of the 2nd and 3rd best dual meet teams in the conference (Carleton being far superior to any other women’s dual meet team).

      GAC wins, but barely, then wins conferences, even over Carleton.

    • #39589

      Mac or RG, have your predicted scores change based on the swims this weekend?

      Does Wi-Dave move up a spot? Does Bateman beat Hanson? Does Westby swim the 100 free? Does Olaf win the 400 FR?

    • #39590

      @silentp wrote:

      This is a battle, on the women’s side, of the 2nd and 3rd best dual meet teams in the conference (Carleton being far superior to any other women’s dual meet team).

      You said it, silentp. Carleton is hands down the best dual meet team in the MIAC.

      @silentp wrote:

      GAC wins, but barely, then wins conferences, even over Carleton.

      I’m knocking on wood that you’re right. I still think that Olaf takes the dual, and Gustavus wins at Conference due to depth.

    • #39591

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Mac or RG, have your predicted scores change based on the swims this weekend?

      I’m working on it. It’s been a crazy busy week and I haven’t had enough time to redo my spreadsheet yet. Mac, if you read this first feel free to beat me to the punch, otherwise I’m hoping to have something up by Thursday morning.

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Does Wi-Dave move up a spot? Does Bateman beat Hanson? Does Westby swim the 100 free? Does Olaf win the 400 FR?

      Possibly on the Wi-Dave call. Won’t know for sure until tomorrow or Wednesday. Having seen Hanson swim a couple of times last year, my vote goes to Bateman putting up one heck of fight before Hanson destroys him in the final 75 or less. Olaf could very well win the 400 FR this year. My guess is that GAC puts Hanson, Stewart, Auyeung, and Wakefield on it, but not in that order, and has to fight for first. Olaf either 1-3’s or 2-3’s this event.

    • #39592

      Meet format has been set as a 16 event meet with 200 MR and 400 FR. Guess we’ll get to see what everyone has got at both the 100 and 200 distance in the strokes. Does this format bode well for putting Stewart into the 100?

      Now that I know the format I’ll work on a new score for you, Chapel.

    • #39593

      What are the relay rules? I can’t remember for dual meets how many individual events and relays you can swim. And with it being a longer format, does that change?

      Does this also mean that they do both 1M and 3M diving? I don’t know that I ever really noticed if we ever did both 1M and 3M during a meet. Either way, if there is an extra break, it will allow Crunchy Sock and me a chance to go burn one in the Lund Center parking lot… maybe down some Dew Drivers as well with the old Dungeon Masters.

    • #39594

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      What are the relay rules? I can’t remember for dual meets how many individual events and relays you can swim. And with it being a longer format, does that change?

      The way I understand it with the 16-event format each individual is allowed no more than 5 swims. So a key stroker (instead of player since you don’t play swimming) like Stewart will most likely be on both relays (fly leg and lead-out) and swimming 3 individuals (100 Free, 100 Fly, ?).

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Does this also mean that they do both 1M and 3M diving?

      Yes, they should be doing both 1m and 3m diving. I don’t know if this helps or hurts GAC though, since their new guy who went to state apparently doesn’t have a 3m list yet.

      The new score is coming, should be up tonight.

    • #39595
      lirpa
      Member

      This 16 event format is the default when teams do not agree on which events to choose. Not saying that’s the case here, with big teams like these it is fun to see them do the full slate.

      You are allowed 4 swims, with no more than 3 being individual events. so 3ind/1 relay or 2/2.

      Hope this helps for your predictions.

    • #39596
      Tiger2
      Member

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      The way I understand it with the 16-event format each individual is allowed no more than 5 swims.

      Only four swims.
      Sorry, I see you’ve already been corrected.

    • #39597

      @lirpa wrote:

      This 16 event format is the default when teams do not agree on which events to choose. Not saying that’s the case here, with big teams like these it is fun to see them do the full slate.

      I would imagine that they probably agreed on the 16-event. Both teams are huge powerhouses in the MIAC and, as you said, probably want to see what everybody has. This meet has the tendency to bring out the best of both teams, what better opportunity as a coach to see what your team has to offer than at this meet?

      @lirpa wrote:

      You are allowed 4 swims, with no more than 3 being individual events. so 3ind/1 relay or 2/2.

      Thanks for the correction. That would definitely have thrown off my predictions putting people a few people in 5 events. I’m looking to have my scores up by late tonight.

    • #39598

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @lirpa wrote:

      This 16 event format is the default when teams do not agree on which events to choose. Not saying that’s the case here, with big teams like these it is fun to see them do the full slate.

      I would imagine that they probably agreed on the 16-event. Both teams are huge powerhouses in the MIAC and, as you said, probably want to see what everybody has. This meet has the tendency to bring out the best of both teams, what better opportunity as a coach to see what your team has to offer than at this meet?

      I think the Head Coach Carlson and Assistant to the Head Coach Hagen’s relationship with Head Coach Dave Hauch and Assistant to the Head Coach Bob Hauck is very cold war-esque. I think the meet format is a result of Olaf wanting to race the 100s and GAC wanting to race 200s. Neither team would want to concede victory.

      This meet is the biggest thing going on at Gustavus this weekend outside of maybe some chick’s hockey game or some party at Sugar and Spice. Carlson can’t afford to be embarrassed. Not with alumni and low-level donors coming to watch. Carlson knows his job is on the line every time he faces Olaf. Especially considering Dave Huack is an old Gustie himself.

      If Carlson wins this meet, he knows he can expect a rush of donations to the program that will allow for more flippers, and kick-boards, and the pull-boys that don’t give you a rash.* But if he loses, that money could dry up, and he might have to close the hot-tub… not to mention all the second guessing he’ll have to endure from Mac of the MIAC on this site.

      And lets not forget what is at stake for Olaf? A win here could mean another climbing wall, or a local TV deal on public access, or some free pitchers at Brad’s Corner Bar that nobody will drink, or another nursing/choir scholarship.

      *Is it a pull-boy or pull-buoy? I know it technically is more of a buoy, but I always called it a pull-boy.

    • #39599

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      … or another nursing/choir scholarship.

      For Jason Timmer, right?

    • #39600

      I’ve just been too darn busy to put together a new lineup. Sorry guys. Maybe, just maybe I may be able to hash something together by the meet start tomorrow, but I really doubt it.

      As for Mac and Chapel, will you have internet access to post live results as the meet takes place for those of us who can’t make it but would still like to live vicariously (and instantly) through these young men?

    • #39601
      The Pork
      Member

      The St Olaf mens swim team eats babies for the nutritional value, and also to harden their hearts so that they feel no remorse when they see Gustavus “men” crying after losing at their own pool (again).

    • #39602

      All I can say is that is quite an interesting comment, Pork. Although the meet is always a great one and a fight to the finish, I really don’t think that anyone cries afterwards. If anything, the losing team just gains motivation to train harder for Conference and goes into that meet with revenge on their minds.

    • #39603

      I can probably post results live.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      I’ve just been too darn busy to put together a new lineup. Sorry guys. Maybe, just maybe I may be able to hash something together by the meet start tomorrow, but I really doubt it.

      As for Mac and Chapel, will you have internet access to post live results as the meet takes place for those of us who can’t make it but would still like to live vicariously (and instantly) through these young men?

    • #39604

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      I can probably post results live.

      You don’t have to remove yourself from the meet just for me. I would be totally fine with a post of highlights from the Union during the 2 divings breaks. That is unless you are interested in diving, but it sounded like Chapel was fairly excited to get out to the parking lot.

    • #39605
      wonderboy33
      Member

      This is looking like a sound victory by Olaf.

    • #39606

      Men’s victory confirmed: 142.5 – 157.5 in favor of STO. Based on Mac’s posting and a rough scoring, I can’t help but think that Olaf exhibitioned the final few events to make the score closer as they were obviously running away with it.

      However, the story on the women’s side was different from what I’ve heard. GAC women win by a narrow margin: 152 – 148 in favor of GAC.

    • #39607

      Official results are available here:
      http://gustavus.edu/athletics/msw/archives/2007-08/stolafresultsm.htm

      Some observations:

      Looks like Wi-Dave swam back-to-back 1000 and 200 free. There may have been a diving break here, but I don’t think so.

      Gustavus needs breaststrokers and sprinters… Badly.

      Gustavus FY diver Mark Larson won 1m. Looks like the men have a real diver on their hands!

    • #39608
      lane 6er
      Member

      Olaf women were denied the victory by the official and people running the meet. According to the results Carrie Gunderson was entered in 5 events, which would disqualify, or exhibition whichever the rule is, the last relay, giving Olaf the win.

    • #39609

      @lane 6er wrote:

      Olaf women were denied the victory by the official and people running the meet. According to the results Carrie Gunderson was entered in 5 events, which would disqualify, or exhibition whichever the rule is, the last relay, giving Olaf the win.

      I wasn’t at the meet so I can’t say for sure, but I would imagine that this was caught beforehand and changed on deck by a swimmer swap and not in the system. Coaches often enter people in 5 events, and have to make last minute changes. But, as I said, I wasn’t there and don’t know. You are correct, however, that if she did indeed swim 5 times that the Ole women would win. This would be 2-years in a row that the Gustie women would’ve lost to carelessness…

      If anyone from Meet Manager reads this site, why don’t you write some code for the MM software that would catch this? I mean honestly, I’m no computer programmer but I would imagine that a software writer could knock this kind of code out before lunch! How hard would it be to have a computer spit out a page that has the number of events per person? Or better yet, it would keep track simultaneously as you enter your lineup. When trying to select someone, if they were in too many events it would tell you.

    • #39610

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      Based on Mac’s posting and a rough scoring, I can’t help but think that Olaf exhibitioned the final few events to make the score closer as they were obviously running away with it.

      Looking at the results this would appear to be false. I see no evidence of Olaf exhibitioning any swimmers anywhere. This makes the final spread of the meet 15 pts; much closer than the 32 I originally predicted.

    • #39611
      Look Up
      Member

      Congrats to Mark Larson Larson, did do a great job diving (I know the guy). But I must note out of fairness that the Ole diver failed a dive because he misheard what dive the announcer called.

      Other than that,
      Some amazing swim by the Gustavus distance swimmers.

      Olaf dominated the breast and the back

      As to home pool advantage: when diving was warming up at the meet, I noticed the flags on one side were at half pool. For backstrokers who have not swam at that pool before (I’m a former one), this means they do not get to get a feel for that wall.

      It looks like the Ole women got some good first-years

      Amazing finish to the meet in both relays, though the tie on the mens side was extraordinary.

      OH yeah, am I the only one disappointed that the results don’t have splits up?

    • #39612

      @Look Up wrote:

      As to home pool advantage: when diving was warming up at the meet, I noticed the flags on one side were at half pool. For backstrokers who have not swam at that pool before (I’m a former one), this means they do not get to get a feel for that wall.

      I think that is pretty standard procedure (a built-in home pool advantage I suppose). There are a lot of pools/teams that do this, at least from my memory. I think many backstrokers are used to this (or should be in any case). In this case it just wasn’t enough of an advantage as Olaf still dominated the backstroke events (on both the men’s and women’s side).
      As I am sure everyone knows, they move them to half-pool so the divers can warm up at the same time the swimmers are. The divers deserve to have a warm-up too.

      Although, it would make for some pretty interesting diving if they were forced to avoid the backstroke flags during their dives. Perhaps it would be a way to keep people interested in diving!

      I would also like to add a big congrats to all the swimmers from both teams. There were some pretty outstanding swims all around. It looked like a heck of a meet and I wish I could have been there.

    • #39613

      @Look Up wrote:

      It looks like the Ole women got some good first-years

      OH yeah, am I the only one disappointed that the results don’t have splits up?

      I was looking at the results and noticed Olaf’s women’s recruiting class. A lot of top swims out of them. Look out for Amanda Rorem. She is going to be outstanding and GAC lost out when they did not get her.

      I was also disapointed no splits were up.

      This will be an interesting conference meet for both Men and women.

    • #39614
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I’m not an expert on Meet Manager but I have used Team Manager extensively. My understanding is that it’s up to the person creating the meet to specify a total number of individual and relay entries for all swimmers. When a team enters their swimmers, the program will tell you that you have exceeded the total but you can still enter them in as many events as you want. It would be up to the team that is running the meet to run an “exceptions” report that will tell you if there are swimmers entered in more than the maximum number of events.

      I have made mistakes like this before and sometimes they will catch it prior to the meet (especially if it’s an important meet like the State Meet), sometimes they won’t. It is the responsibility of the coach to make sure that they haven’t made an error like this. I know there are other USS coaches that peruse this forum that have more experience with Meet Manager though and perhaps they have more information.

    • #39615

      I’ve gotten several messages in Meet Manager to the effect that “Warning! Swimmer X is entered in too many events! Do you want to continue anyway?” My experience with it was at a conference meet (time-trials and swim-offs were messing with the count), but I would expect the software would give you the same message in a dual meet.

    • #39616
      openwater
      Member

      @lane 6er wrote:

      Olaf women were denied the victory by the official and people running the meet. According to the results Carrie Gunderson was entered in 5 events, which would disqualify, or exhibition whichever the rule is, the last relay, giving Olaf the win.

      She clearly swam the last relay (see story on GAC site) and since the first relay was immediately followed by the 1000, which she swam and won, it seems likely that she did not swim that first relay. On the other hand, since the 200 Med relay did not win, it is unlikely that the GAC site would comment on it no matter who swam it.

    • #39617

      The dual this year made Swimming World Magazine’s national meet of the week. Having swum in this meet, I know how powerful this meet is, but it’s awesome that it’s getting attention at the national level!!

      http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/16135.asp

      And just on a grammatical note, I thought that this line in the article was particularly clever:

      Stewart easily led the pack of Gusties with two individual titles to add to his 400 free relay tie. He stopped the clock first in the 100 (47.42) and 200 (1:44.35) freestyles to finish with three crowns.

      Gusties…. Three crowns…. Get it?

    • #39618

      Some observations from the meet.

      Olaf had the superior rouser, again.

      Hauk swimming Westby in the 50 free to counter Stewart was pretty awesome. Especially when Olaf 1-2-3’d the 100 breast minus Westby.

      Ziegler had an awesome 100 fly. It was all Assistant to the Head Coach, Andy Hagen could talk about. He was with Westby until about 60 yards.

      Carlson swimming Stewart in the 50 and 100 was a great move.

      Stewart is flat out awesome. His freestyle is amazingly smooth.

      Chris Bateman is a huge dude. He looks like he will taper really well.

      Assistant to the head coach, Andy Hagen, really enjoys his job. It would be nice to see JC get his much deserved upgrade to D1, and A2THC, Hagen man the ship himself.

      As for swimmers, spoke to Skylar, and he is pretty confident that Cason’s record is going down this year. Jonah Winter is pretty bad ass. Michelson has bangin’ hair. Skylar’s girlfriend thinks that I shouldn’t have traded him. Pokorski is pretty funny. Tyler Wakefield’s girlfriend didn’t seem to want to hear my theories on how GAC could have won conference had her BF swam the 100. In general, all of the GAC kids Chapel and I spoke to (and there were lots) were pretty rad.

      Autograph signing session was a huge success.

    • #39619

      Good observations Mac…

      I was surprised Wi-D (pronounced witty), swam the 1000 and 200 back to back. Either way, there was a lot of talk of whether he scores more fantasy points than his brother since he could make a few relays.

      I think Stewart is a lock to win the 100 at conference unless Westby swims it.

      Tyler Wakefield was swimming breast stroke (his GF was a bit surprised by the move as well)… I think it was good to see how he’d do, but I doubt he’ll swim that at conference unless Head Coach Carlson wants to prove a point to Mac of the MIAC. I actually think the GAC breast strokers did alright. 1:04s are pretty good for a first meet (John Fox was a 1:03.59 last week, and he’s a sub-minute taper guy), I just think Olaf has much better guys. I could see Winter or Mikkelson or one of those other guys getting 5th or 6th at conference this year with a 59.99 or 1:00.01.

      Once the Timmer transfer goes through though, this will all be moot. He’ll give GAC a shot at winning both Meds.

      One other note, and I am probably 3 years too late on this, but from the above vantage point at Lund Center, the “incidental” dolphin kick looks ridiculous. I’d say it saves you about a .25 or .5 second on each 50. Seriously. I think if Max Harper was able to do the dolphin kick on his breast stroke, he’d have been a 55 flat.

    • #39620

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Chris Bateman is a huge dude. He looks like he will taper really well.

      Huge how? Tall, rolly-polly, both?

    • #39621

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      One other note, and I am probably 3 years too late on this, but from the above vantage point at Lund Center, the “incidental” dolphin kick looks ridiculous. I’d say it saves you about a .25 or .5 second on each 50. Seriously.

      Legalizing the dolphin kick on a breaststroke pull-out was probably the best thing to happen to the breaststroke in many years. If you watch anyone at the D1 level do it, they rocket off their walls with this added kick. I wouldn’t be surprised if an accomplished breaststroker cut around a second per 100 just by adding this.

    • #39622

      6’5, 250

      I was also 40 feet away and have 20-150 vision. None-the-less, he was a huge guy.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Chris Bateman is a huge dude. He looks like he will taper really well.

      Huge how? Tall, rolly-polly, both?

    • #39623

      To swim that fast at his size is quite an accomplishment. Perhaps during the training this year he can drop 15 or 20. I’d be interested to see where he ends up time wise with a weight loss in the area.

    • #39624
      RustieGustie
      Member

      @lane 6er wrote:

      Olaf women were denied the victory by the official and people running the meet. According to the results Carrie Gunderson was entered in 5 events, which would disqualify, or exhibition whichever the rule is, the last relay, giving Olaf the win.

      In an exclusive interview with Assistant to the Head Coach Andy Hagen he confirmed that Carrie Gunderson was scratched from the medley relay, but the change was not made in meet manager. The correct results with splits can be found here http://gustavus.edu/athletics/wsw/archives/2007-08/stolafresultsw.htm

      When asked who was responsible for this oversight Hagen replied,
      “Me of course. As any former work study employee knows, Jon types about 2 words per minute. And furthermore he has steadfastly refused to use a computer since Apple discontinued Claris Works”.

      No word on whether the NCAA will levy sanctions against Assistant to the Head Coach Hagen but officials are “looking into it”.

    • #39625

      So the Gustie women’s victory was legit; good to hear. Looks like lane 6er jumped to conclusions a wee bit early…

    • #39626
      lane 6er
      Member

      not jumping to conclusions, just replying to the facts presented. Either way, if she was switched out and the relay card wasn’t switched, isn’t being entered in 5 events still illegal? I’m not bitching, just curious as to what the rules are.

    • #39627

      No, but it does sound a lot like whining.

      I’m pretty sure that dual meets don’t have relay cards.

      If she didn’t swim five events, she didn’t swim five events. The Oles lost, get over it.

    • #39628

      No, but it does sound a lot like whining.

      Good point. But seriously, I have to chose between Andre Johnson and Torry Holt this weekend in fantasy football. What direction would you guys take with this?

      Secondarily, I need to choose between Gunderson and Beardsley for the next dual. Do you trust Gunderson after the late scratch, or do you rely on Beardsley?

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