St. Johns Invite

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    • #12962
      Monti
      Member
    • #43001

      Glad to see that both the men and women won. However, it does appear that those who went on the training trip are pretty fatigued right now. Hopefully they got some solid training in and the taper, which should start in a week or two, will work its magic!

    • #43002

      Michael Williams, FY SJU, is starting to make an impact. 22.4 50, 2:24 200 breast.

      GAC swam really slow.

    • #43003

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      GAC swam really slow.

      I’m hoping it’s the training trip…. I think that typically the swimmers who go on the training trip swim fairly slow the next meet or two from the training and the ones who didn’t go on the trip swim fairly slow because of the laziness. I know that during my tenure the athletes who didn’t go on the trip usually didn’t even get in the pool over break. I don’t want to generalize though, so if someone who didn’t go on the trip that still worked out over break is reading the forum, good work!

    • #43004

      UST beat SJU… This should be good for UST going into conference. I still think they have a shot at 3rd if they can beat out Carleton.

      Kubat is back and swimming for SJU, although not too fast. But he’s got time to get in shape and still have a decent taper.

      I wouldn’t worry about GAC swimming slow. If I remember correctly, SJU beat GAC at the invite last year.

    • #43005
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      GAC always swims slow at this meet. Between the training trip, the 3 hour 5:00 a.m. bus trip and not really giving a crap, this meet has always been tough. I remember in 1999 a certain all-american swimmer who shall remain nameless (Let’s just call him Kevin O’Laughlin) went like 1:58 in the 200 Free, and then 1:43 a month later at Conference.

    • #43006

      @CRUNCHYSOCK wrote:

      Kevin O’Laughlin went like 1:58 in the 200 Free, and then 1:43 a month later at Conference.

      Dude, he wasn’t even close to 1:58. He didn’t break 2:00, and it was the most pathetic swim I have ever seen, including that one time when I watched some retarded kid from Bloomington Jefferson try and swim the 100 fly. He was dead after 40 yards, then just stopped, swam under all of the lane lines and got out. He then thrust his hands into the air in triumph. And I wasn’t kidding, he was retarded, his IQ was no higher than 40. O’Laughlin’s 200 was marginally better than that.

    • #43007

      Um…It would appear that St. Johns wasn’t really trying to win this meet. Alot of swimmers were swimming off events (and most of them swam pritty poorly) they also didn’t even enter anyone in the 1650 and many other events they left wide open. also It looks like the only one that posted decent times was williams. Additionally Kevin Mullee looked really good especially in his 100 fly beating ziegler and almost beating swenson.

      finally…anyone know what happened to SJU’s 800 free relays that they bother got DQed? are they just that bad at relay starts? who jumps on a 800 free relay?

    • #43008

      Could SJU have beat UST even if they tried? Hard to say. Looks like they tanked the “hard” events… 1650, 400IM, and 200 fly.

      I know the meet means nothing as far as conference goes (GAC lost to SJU last year).

      I’ll also note that UST swam extremely well , while SJU and GAC times look like they were tired. Hodsgon usually is not known for pounding guys with high yardage workouts, so UST probably was a little less beat up for the meet than the other two schools.

      I’ll stick by my pre-season prediction that I think UST could make a run at 3rd place at conference.

    • #43009
      the Todd
      Member

      Both of SJU’s relays did DQ. The B relay jumped a leg, and on the A relay one of the guys on the relay got in to cool down before all the teams were finished.

    • #43010
      Low Tide
      Member

      That’s quite an accomplishment.

    • #43011
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Training hard is a poor excuse for swimming slow. It seems to me that the GAC swimmers need to pull their skirts up and race like men.

    • #43012
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      You’re a hell of a motivator. Who hates their mom? !

    • #43013

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Training hard is a poor excuse for swimming slow.

      I would agree with that statement if they didn’t give it all because they knew they were tired. However, if an athlete has been beating himself to oblivion for several weeks of training and still puts all his effort in it only to swim slow, then I think that training hard is a valid reason for swimming slow.

      The human body can only output so much. By breaking down muscles and such, you train your body to be able to withstand more. If you’re completely torn down, you can’t perform at the level same as when you beginning to tear down. There just isn’t as much strength and stamina to rely on at this point in the season.

    • #43014
      caveman12
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Training hard is a poor excuse for swimming slow. It seems to me that the GAC swimmers need to pull their skirts up and race like men.

      sounds like someone was never really a hard trainer

    • #43015
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Again, excuses. I didn’t imply that GAC swimmers didn’t “try hard”. It’s called guts people, it’s not that difficult to figure out. There is no reason to add 3-4 seconds in a 100 at this time of the year. It takes racing experience to understand that you have to swim fast regardless of how you feel. Feeling tired is inevitable. It takes guts (or nuts) to swim fast when you are tired. As for my training background, I’ll let it speak for itself. Plenty of people could back it up.

    • #43016
      silentp
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Again, excuses. I didn’t imply that GAC swimmers didn’t “try hard”. It’s called guts people, it’s not that difficult to figure out. There is no reason to add 3-4 seconds in a 100 at this time of the year. It takes racing experience to understand that you have to swim fast regardless of how you feel. Feeling tired is inevitable. It takes guts (or nuts) to swim fast when you are tired. As for my training background, I’ll let it speak for itself. Plenty of people could back it up.

      Takes guts to swim all 4 years and go to school while getting good grades also.

      Cielo, from Auburn, was a 43 around this time of year the year he broke the NCAA record in the 100. While this isn’t 3-4 seconds, percentage wise (and looking at it from how fast, not just pure percentage measure), it’s about the same thing, in my opinion.

    • #43017
      wonderboy33
      Member

      That’s quite a cheap shot silentp. I believe I made an significant point about the importance of swimming fast regardless of how you feel and you find it necessary to insult my intelligence. You have no idea of the trials and tribulations in my background. Talk about guts. Considering that I never graduated from high school, I’d say the fact that I have a college degree is significant.

    • #43019
      lirpa
      Member

      I agree that we don’t know all of your trials and tribulations wonderboy33. I also feel like it is tough to know all of the reasons why a team may have not performed at their highest level from looking at the results online. I enjoy how your posts spark conversation, but sometimes you come off a little harsh in your assessment of student-athletes performances considering you are a few steps removed from any of these teams.

      I think it’s a little bit simple to suggest swimming fast at this time of year is only about guts.

    • #43018
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @lirpa wrote:

      I agree that we don’t know all of your trials and tribulations wonderboy33. I also feel like it is tough to know all of the reasons why a team may have not performed at their highest level from looking at the results online. I enjoy how your posts spark conversation, but sometimes you come off a little harsh in your assessment of student-athletes performances considering you are a few steps removed from any of these teams.

      I think it’s a little bit simple to suggest swimming fast at this time of year is only about guts.

      I appreciate your comments lirpa. My posts come from the perspective of a current coach and former swimmer. As a coach, I have certain expectations that I’d like my swimmers to adhere to. I prefer to call them high expectations rather than being harsh, though there are times in which I get upset at swimmers for making mistakes. I’m not suggesting that swimmers need to be at their best times, or even swimming really fast at this time of the year, though I would like to see steady improvement. I still believe that 3-4 seconds in a 100 is a lack of racing ability in some respects. I’m guessing that the swimmers and coaches weren’t necessarily happy with their performances.

      Lastly, I have less experience with the old school, pound them until they drop philosophy. Perhaps this lack of guts is expected and desired at this time of the year. I’m not sure how adding 3-4 seconds could be considered good news or an indication that we’re “right on track” but perhaps I’m mistaken. In my opinion, expecting kids to swim fast all year sets them up for swimming fast at the end of the year. In fact, I have kids race after a tough set in practice in order to get them used to swimming fast while tired at the meets. You can’t expect to feel good for every race, even when you are tapered. It’s good to approach competition with that mentality.

    • #43020
      Monti
      Member

      As I say to my swimmers, swimming is not about who swims fastest. It is about who swims fastest while in pain and discomfort.

    • #43021

      Swimmers should never be so broken down that they add 4 seconds per 100. It’s a bad idea either way, if they are physically broken down, or mentally checked out. Swimmers need to practice going fast all year.

      We had plenty of swimmers at GAC who would drop 15 seconds in a 200 fly at conference, and I’ve always thought that this method of training was poor. It was virtually the only time all year these swimmers could do 200 yards of butterfly without submerging 3 feet per stroke, or going one arm. Bob Hauck once told me that the reason he was fast in the 400IM was that he practiced doing 400 IM’s all the time, and he made sure that he always tried to hold his stroke in training. Good advice.

    • #43022

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      That’s quite a cheap shot silentp. I believe I made an significant point about the importance of swimming fast regardless of how you feel and you find it necessary to insult my intelligence. You have no idea of the trials and tribulations in my background. Talk about guts. Considering that I never graduated from high school, I’d say the fact that I have a college degree is significant. Go pfuck yourself.

      I think that you two should fight at conference. That would be money. I’ll take on Chapel Partner or Assistant to the Head Coach, Andy Hagen as an undercard. Something tells me that Mr. Hagen has been wanting to clock Mac of the MIAC for some years now.

    • #43023

      Meow?

    • #43024

      Mac, when did you talk to Bob Hauck about swimming? This encounter of yours seems highly unlikely. For Hauck, I think training 400 IM works well, especially since it involves every stroke.

      But what about a guy who sucked at free, and only swam breast and fly? Should he even bother training free? Seems like most workouts, even for a stroke specialist, are 75% freestyle based (could be wrong on that). I think that is OK, because you have to build up your stamina somehow. And swimming a 7-8K yard workout all breast stroke might blow out your knees. Doing it fly would make your arms fall off drug-free Olympics style.

      I swam for Tom Hodgson at UST, and Jon Carlson at GAC. Both ran very different practices. UST practices were usually less yards, but you did more race speed and technique work. GAC we did that stuff too, but a lot of practice was spent pounding out a lot of yards.

      I’m not sure if it is still this way, but I don’t think I even knew where the weight room was at UST. At GAC we spent all of January mornings either swimming a short workout, or in the weight room.

      So looking at the times, where UST is swimming close to top times (continually improving) while GAC swimmers are turding it up a bit, it seems about right.

      What works better? Well GAC wins more, but maybe they just have better swimmers? GAC drops more time, but UST guys are improving throughout the year, so the drops are less dramatic.

      And I will destroy Mac at conference like I did E-Man’s Revenge when Jon made us wrestle in practice. I’ll take Wonderboy over SilentP, but only based on Wonderboy looking like Everlast from House of Pain (not the Tyler Perry version).

    • #43025
      silentp
      Member

      Wonderboy I have no idea about your story. Nor do I want to. I was merely saying it can be difficult to balance both and since this is d3 let’s not just say it was guts that had certain swimmers put up slow times. I did notice my insight on Cielo was ignored though, so perhaps that route was easier for all.

    • #43026
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Your comment about Cielo was disregarded because you chose to make an asinine comment that had nothing to do with the topic. D3 guys swim slower at this time of the year because they generally do their homework? Nice try but don’t back away from the personal attack now. You give one example, Cielo, and you want me to say you’re right? I’m guessing that neither swimmer nor coach were happy with the performance. Regardless, my comment was not a prediction of how GAC swimmers will swim at conference or nationals. I merely pointed out that slow times are never acceptable and that they need to get up and race. I would have said the same thing about Cielo if there was a 3-4 second add from a month earlier.

    • #43027

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I merely pointed out that slow times are never acceptable and that they need to get up and race.

      I disagree with this statement.

      Having a bad meet is something that happens to every swimmer. I don’t care how gutsy or determined or hard working you are, every swimmer will have bad meets, slow times etc. Anyone, especially a coach, who doesn’t understand that a swimmer can be trying his absolute best and still have a slow time is ridiculous. And for those of us only looking at times from internet results and drawing a conclusion a certain swimmer (or swimmers) isn’t trying his best (without intimate knowledge of that swimmer’s situation) is even more ridiculous. Anyone who expects otherwise is either naive or misinformed.

      It is my belief that the only meet that matters is conference (or nationals, or what ever your taper meet happens to be). If that is your mind set (which obviously isn’t everyone’s) then being broken down and having an off meet isn’t necessarily a terrible thing, as long as that swimmer is able to recover and perform at his best when it matters. Of course, I would be worried if a swimmer is swimming poorly meet after meet after meet.

    • #43028
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @backstroker02 wrote:

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I merely pointed out that slow times are never acceptable and that they need to get up and race.

      I disagree with this statement.

      Having a bad meet is something that happens to every swimmer. I don’t care how gutsy or determined or hard working you are, every swimmer will have bad meets, slow times etc. Anyone, especially a coach, who doesn’t understand that a swimmer can be trying his absolute best and still have a slow time is ridiculous. And for those of us only looking at times from internet results and drawing a conclusion a certain swimmer (or swimmers) isn’t trying his best (without intimate knowledge of that swimmer’s situation) is even more ridiculous. Anyone who expects otherwise is either naive or misinformed.

      It is my belief that the only meet that matters is conference (or nationals, or what ever your taper meet happens to be). If that is your mind set (which obviously isn’t everyone’s) then being broken down and having an off meet isn’t necessarily a terrible thing, as long as that swimmer is able to recover and perform at his best when it matters. Of course, I would be worried if a swimmer is swimming poorly meet after meet after meet.

      It wasn’t one swimmer that had a bad meet, it was nearly the entire team. I don’t care how “broken down” you are, adding 4 seconds is ridiculous. Additionally, you may want to look back at my posts. There was never an implication that the swimmers didn’t try hard. You may want to hand out the participation ribbons but I’m saying that it’s unacceptable. As Monti and others have said, you have to swim fast regardless of how broken down you are. Contrary to the comments made by caveman, I was a hard trainer. There was never a point in my entire career that I was so “broken down” that I couldn’t stay within arms reach of my best unrested time. Additionally, I have never coached kids that have added 4 seconds a month out from their final meet. I am not a college coach but I have coached college age kids.

      I suppose I should direct some of the criticism at the training philosophy. The pounding philosophy is old school. Why would swimming poorly be desired over swimming fast? Are you risking bad performance at the end by swimming fast all year? No. Are you creating great performance at the end by crushing them now? No. It’s true that this philosophy has been successful for many coaches over the years. GAC is no exception and chapel is correct that they have had good swimmers. Would they be more successful with a different training philosophy? Who knows.

      There is a “new” movement out there and it is not based on pounding yardage. Dave Salo is one of the best examples of getting great performance by focusing on quality and not quantity. From the beginning of the season, his kids race at nearly every practice. They only do between 5,000 and 6,000 yards. They are meaningful yards. They are focused on race strategy. Looking at the splits of the “Get to the Point” Invite, there were some bad swims (I’ve only seen the prelim results). Perhaps some of the kids “shut it down” as they were guaranteed of making finals (which I also have a problem with but that’s another story). If not, race strategy has gone out the window as it has in every high school team I’ve seen.

      How does Michael Phelps swim so fast all year, setting world records nearly every month? Is he being pounded to the point of being broken down? No. Is he rested for every meet? No. He expects to swim fast every time without question. Now, he is on a different level but I don’t think it changes the point. He will still swim fast at trials and the Olympics. As will the other elite swimmers.

      If it’s ok to pound yardage, break kids down, and expect bad results at this time of the year, then why compete? Why not just train? You aren’t going to learn anything from a race in which your splits continue to get slower and it’s “out of your control”. Better yet, just throw on a t-shirt and shoes and go out and compete. That way they can race and get some sort of training value.

      This idea that it’s “out of their control” is a complete crock. There is a mental aspect involved in the sport. You can choose to push through pain when you approach the 3rd 50 of a 200. It is in your control. It’s up to the swimmers and coaches to build that mentality. I’d like to be involved with a team that has that philosophy. Any team that believes that it’s out of their control is a team that should be swimming at the local YMCA for recreational purposes (no offense to Dave C).

    • #43029

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I merely pointed out that slow times are never acceptable and that they need to get up and race.

      Wow, wonderboy. Just wow.

      From reading some of your other posts I can only begin to infer that you are a coach at some level. However, this statement really makes me think about your coaching abilities. Wanting your athletes to always compete and succeed is one thing. But not allowing them to ever fail is just, well, Hitlerish. Every athlete regardless of ability (yes I’m talking Michael Phelps to the guy in lane 47 doing 50’s on the 2 minutes) is allowed a poor meet/race. Whether it’s due to intense training, personal issues, homework load, whatever; every athlete is entitled to swimming poorly at some point, even when they give it their best.

      Like backstroker said, if it’s something that is happening time and time again it needs to be looked at. But when you consider the type of training that most of these guys are going through at this point in the season, in addition to the rigors of academia, I would say that adding 3 – 4 seconds in a 100 is on the high end, but probably isn’t that uncommon. I don’t know the exact times for either of them, but I’m pretty sure that both Hagemeyer and Amundson, just to name a few, added more than the “wonderboy acceptable amount” (which appears to be zero) at this point in the season.

      You can’t seriously expect every athlete to always perform at their peak every time. If you want to talk about asinine, that would be the dictionary definition of it.

    • #43030

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      There was never a point in my entire career that I was so “broken down” that I couldn’t stay within arms reach of my best unrested time.

      Well here’s a participation medal for you. *Hands wonderboy a silly off-colored ribbon*
      Since when is a couple seconds not within arms reach when you factor in the level of training they are enduring and the potential for having an off meet? I mean come on, it was at SJU. I’m not saying it’s a bad pool, but it’s definitely down there with UST on my list.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I am not a college coach but I have coached college age kids.

      Going off your own words, then I would say that you are out of your league in judging exactly what these guys are going through. You know, since you don’t have any experience coaching at this level and all.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Why would swimming poorly be desired over swimming fast?

      Swimming poorly and swimming slowly are two different things. Swimming poorly I agree is most of the time not acceptable. But swimming slowly just shows that the training is taking a good hold on your body, and that taper will allow you body to super-compensate for the training and allow you drop mad amounts of time.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      How does Michael Phelps swim so fast all year, setting world records nearly every month?

      Because he’s the man. No. Wait. I take that back. He is the little known brother of Jesus. Walking on water?!? Psht, please. Trying IMing through it.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      If it’s ok to pound yardage, break kids down, and expect bad results at this time of the year, then why compete? Why not just train?

      Because competition keeps you sharp, regardless of well you competed. If you compete and get your patootie handed to you, you still learned something. If you compete and dominate, all you did was reaffirm your belief that you’re the best. I think that competing and losing is far more valuable than competing and winning all the time. It humbles you, and focuses you on improving yourself for the next round.

    • #43031
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I merely pointed out that slow times are never acceptable and that they need to get up and race.

      Wow, wonderboy. Just wow.

      From reading some of your other posts I can only begin to infer that you are a coach at some level. However, this statement really makes me think about your coaching abilities. Wanting your athletes to always compete and succeed is one thing. But not allowing them to ever fail is just, well, Hitlerish. Every athlete regardless of ability (yes I’m talking Michael Phelps to the guy in lane 47 doing 50’s on the 2 minutes) is allowed a poor meet/race. Whether it’s due to intense training, personal issues, homework load, whatever; every athlete is entitled to swimming poorly at some point, even when they give it their best.

      Like backstroker said, if it’s something that is happening time and time again it needs to be looked at. But when you consider the type of training that most of these guys are going through at this point in the season, in addition to the rigors of academia, I would say that adding 3 – 4 seconds in a 100 is on the high end, but probably isn’t that uncommon. I don’t know the exact times for either of them, but I’m pretty sure that both Hagemeyer and Amundson, just to name a few, added more than the “wonderboy acceptable amount” (which appears to be zero) at this point in the season.

      You can’t seriously expect every athlete to always perform at their peak every time. If you want to talk about asinine, that would be the dictionary definition of it.

      Gustie, if you actually read my posts, you will see that I don’t expect athletes to perform “at their peak” every time. In fact, I said that I don’t expect best times or even really fast times at every meet. I do expect that they will stay within the ballpark though. Additionally, failing is one thing. We aren’t talking about one kid, we are talking about nearly the entire team. In this case, it’s ok to analyze why they swam poorly.

      You mention the “tough” training that most of these guys are going through. Are you serious? Do you actually think that Gustavus trains harder than so many other teams out there? Give me a break. Look at Germantown Academy and talk to me about “broken down” swimmers.

      Lastly, you can question my coaching ability all you want. I have been successful because I have laid down certain expectations. If I were to be happy with poor performance, I would be a bad coach. If you swim a poorly split race and neglected to push through the pain a bit, I will comment on it. If my entire team swims badly, I will go back and look at what I’m doing.

    • #43032
      Monti
      Member

      Quickest way to piss off any coach is to give up during the 3rd or 4th 50 of a 200 or the 2nd 50 of a 100. Look at the splits from the St. Johns meet and you can see some giving up was going on by swimmers across the entire meet.

    • #43000

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      But not allowing them to ever fail is just, well, Hitlerish.

      As someone who knows a Jew or two, I am deeply offended. This is an outrage.

    • #43033
      caveman12
      Member

      Wonderboy-
      The more you talk the less convinced I am that you are an intelligent being.

      1) I would say there were few poorly swum races in the past 2 weeks, from the Gustavus team, rather just slower than usual races.

      2) You swam through a completely different age of swimming, so you dont really know what the bodies of current swimmers are going through.

      3) You know little about the Gustavus program. I’m not saying its a lot harder than any other program, but what I do know is that it is different than most (based on some friends from their schools), but our bodies are pretty broken down at this point of the season. January is by far the hardest training during the season. If I remember right, Scottie and Brian had a difficult time breaking 22 in the 50 last year at SP, and no one ever questioned their work ethic or guts. They ended up spliting under 20 in relays, and were mid 20s in the open.

      4) What would be the point of spending all day at the St. John’s meet, not trying your best and giving up half way through the race? It is a 5 hour trip from GAC to UWSP and a whole weekend was spent there, if we didn’t point a full effort, it would be a waste of time.

      5) How can you accuse an entire team of 50+ to not give it there all? We came back from training trip less than a week before the SJU meet.

      6) Its not fair to compare d3 swimmers to Michael Phelps, he is the greatest swimmer of all time and is still improving. He also gets paid a good deal of money to just swim. d3 swimmers pay the school to attend, plus have classes on top of swimming, and no one has anywhere near the talent phelps does.

      7) There is probably a good reason you aren’t coaching college with your philosophies, I’m guessing you were the kid that got picked on in high school with litlle friends, therefore aren’t a people person and would be a bad recruiter

      8) You clearly weren’t as hard of a trainer as you thought you were if were always within arms reach of your best time.

      9) You are an idiot, most of us seem to think so, why are you still posting?

    • #43034
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Wonderboy-
      The more you talk the less convinced I am that you are an intelligent being.

      1) I would say there were few poorly swum races in the past 2 weeks, from the Gustavus team, rather just slower than usual races.

      2) You swam through a completely different age of swimming, so you dont really know what the bodies of current swimmers are going through.

      3) You know little about the Gustavus program. I’m not saying its a lot harder than any other program, but what I do know is that it is different than most (based on some friends from their schools), but our bodies are pretty broken down at this point of the season. January is by far the hardest training during the season. If I remember right, Scottie and Brian had a difficult time breaking 22 in the 50 last year at SP, and no one ever questioned their work ethic or guts. They ended up spliting under 20 in relays, and were mid 20s in the open.

      4) What would be the point of spending all day at the St. John’s meet, not trying your best and giving up half way through the race? It is a 5 hour trip from GAC to UWSP and a whole weekend was spent there, if we didn’t point a full effort, it would be a waste of time.

      5) How can you accuse an entire team of 50+ to not give it there all? We came back from training trip less than a week before the SJU meet.

      6) Its not fair to compare d3 swimmers to Michael Phelps, he is the greatest swimmer of all time and is still improving. He also gets paid a good deal of money to just swim. d3 swimmers pay the school to attend, plus have classes on top of swimming, and no one has anywhere near the talent phelps does.

      7) There is probably a good reason you aren’t coaching college with your philosophies, I’m guessing you were the kid that got picked on in high school with litlle friends, therefore aren’t a people person and would be a bad recruiter

      8) You clearly weren’t as hard of a trainer as you thought you were if were always within arms reach of your best time.

      9) You are an idiot, most of us seem to think so, why are you still posting?

      I would go with the obvious regarding intelligence but I support those who have deficiencies. Keep it up caveman, you are a winner.

      1. There were some poorly swum races and some slower than usual races. The argument was regarding the number of much slower than usual races.

      B. To say that I swam through a different age of swimming so I don’t know what current swimmers go through is ludicrous. Considering the fact that the yardage-pounding philosophy is old school wouldn’t I know more about it than a current swimmer? It’s true that I had coaches who were more technique-oriented but I also had coaches that were yardage-oriented early on in my career. To say that a former swimmer can’t comment is to exclude the majority of people posting on this site.

      3. What I know about the Gustavus program is through my Gustavus friends, those that post on this site, those that I swam against, and those that I currently get together with. Your bodies are broken down at this point of the season. Look at how Saint Olaf is swimming the last 2 weeks. Under the “broken-down so can’t compete” philosophy, I would be very worried if I were an Ole right now. They are swimming too fast. They must not be working hard enough. Little do they know that GAC has them right where they want them. As for Scottie and Brian, you might want to look back at my previous posts. I never questioned work ethic nor did I say that GAC wouldn’t taper well. The fact that they tapered well after splitting 22’s in january is beside the point. The 50 doesn’t really take guts anyways.

      4. I don’t know what the point would be. Can you explain? Again, you’re not grasping the point. No one said that a swimmer made a conscious decision to tank a race. Instead, the implication was that the mental toughness needed to push through the last half of a race was lacking.

      5. I think you’re starting to convince me here. You’re right, you had a training trip the week before the SJU Meet. You can’t be held responsible for your own performance.

      6. If I promised you 10 bucks each race, would you swim faster? Would it take more than that? I think you might be on to something here.

      7. If only I believed in yardage-based swimming I would be a college coach today. Interestingly enough, I actually enjoy my job. No, I don’t get to coach college kids that respect their elders, believe in loyalty, and introspection but I still have fun. In case anyone is interested, my kids swam fast this weekend, in spite of my lack of ability and people skills. Does anyone else find it ironic that caveman is accusing me of having “little” friends?

      8 (I think). I really need to evaluate my ideas. Working hard = adding 4 seconds per 100 in a month = good swimming. I was always within arms reach of my best “unrested time” at this point in the season, to be precise. The biggest reason for that? No, not easy training. I hated to lose. I raced every race with the intention of winning, regardless of how I felt, what the conditions were, how far I had to travel to get to the meet, etc. In fact, I drove to a meet in Schroeder one year and achieved my first Junior Cut while eating cold spaghettios out of the can and sleeping in my car. No excuses.

      9. Given the results thus far, it’s good to see you’re training hard this season caveman.

    • #43035

      As moderator of this forum I feel I should interject here…

      Point, wonderboy. The score is now overwhelmingly in his favor in this battle of wits (and grammar).

      That is all.

    • #43036
      Monti
      Member

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      As moderator of this forum I feel I should interject here…

      Point, wonderboy. The score is now overwhelmingly in his favor in this battle of wits (and grammar).

      That is all.

      agreed.

    • #43037
      Duck
      Member

      There have been some moderately numskulled comments in this thread, but this one takes the cake (even over Rustie Gustie’s invocation of Godwin’s Law):

      As I say to my swimmers, swimming is not about who swims fastest. It is about who swims fastest while in pain and discomfort.

      I can just picture him right now; laughing maniacally and screaming this with whip in hand while his swimmers complete their 10 X 500 butterfly set dragging buckets. For the next set he will bind his swimmers’ testicles like a rodeo bull and set the live candiru loose.

    • #43038

      @Duck wrote:

      … even over Rustie Gustie’s invocation of Godwin’s Law …

      Guilty.

      @Duck wrote:

      I can just picture him right now; laughing maniacally and screaming this with whip in hand while his swimmers complete their 10 X 500 butterfly set dragging buckets. For the next set he will bind his swimmers’ testicles like a rodeo bull and set the live candiru loose.

      Man, you have some interesting visions! That or you have seen the movie “The Rundown” where they talk about this fish…

      As far as wonderboy’s statement is concerned, I agree that learning to swim fast while in discomfort from the training/set/race is paramount to being a successful athlete.

    • #43039
      Tobias
      Member

      Being the first analysist/therapist in the field of psychoanalysis, allow me to add some scientific jargon that will blow you away, hard. What Caveman is evincing is something us analrapists call being wrong. Really, I just want to prove that wonderboy’s argument is actually supported by others (Caveman rudely assumed that wonderboy has no like-minded acquaintances). Being broken down is not an excuse for swimming slow — its a cop out. For instance, D1 athletes are expected to perform at their peak and regularly do: it isn’t just Michael Phelps who swims fast year-round.

    • #43040
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Even Hitler had a few fans.

    • #43041
      Jonah Winter
      Member

      As a Gustavus swimmer all I can say is we swam slow, that’s apparent. Are we tired? I can’t speak for the team but I sure am. Jon has been swimming us hard and I have been lifting harder then I did in past years. Is that an excuse to swim slow, of course not. The thing to remember is that St. Johns and Stevens Point isn’t conference. I don’t see the point in getting bent out of shape because we swam slowly in a couple of meets. Does that make us a bunch of Sallies, sure, if that makes you feel better? Posting that we need to pull our skirts up or grow some nuts isn’t going to make me swim any faster. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is want it is; you are not swimming for GAC or any other team. You say you were always within arms reach of your best unrested times all season, right? If you don’t mind could you post all your times from your junior year of college? Please don’t feel the need to post were you swam; but rather the date, event and time. Just so we know what is acceptable in terms of the amount of time we are allowed to add when we are tired. Thanks Jonah Winter Gustavus Class of ’08

    • #43042
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Uh oh, call in the cavalry, caveman couldn’t come up with a good response. You know what’s lame? Registering so that you can help defend a friend in your first post. You know what else is lame? Trying to turn the argument around by asking someone to post all of their times from 10 years ago. I guess I hit a sensitive subject. It’s no secret around here that I didn’t swim my junior year. My claims were only based on my 15 years of swimming and 7 years of coaching. Hey, that’s as long as you’ve been living! Funny.

      Damn, my posts aren’t going to make you swim any faster? I guess I’ll have to think of something else. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks for agreeing with me on the subject. It’s always nice to have another friend in the mix. Good luck at conference, we will all be rooting for you. Go get those Ole’s!

    • #43043

      I’m not gonna come to anyone’s defense here, but I can relate to the GAC swimmers (since I swam there).

      A. I’d like to point out that Jon is not a “garbage yards” coach. When I did my UST-GAC comparison, I just pointed out that I felt like GAC swimmers worked a lot harder (weights, morning practices, etc) than UST (at least when I was at both schools). I thought the only team that swam well at the SJU invite was UST. SJU didn’t do that great either (probably tired as well).

      2. The hardest sets I recall from my days at GAC were the one time we did 100-100s (pretty common set), and another time we did the animal swim (another pretty common set). Both were done as a “you accomplish this and the year will only get easier.” And I agree with that philosophy. It gives you a sense at conference that you worked harder than the guy next to you… whether it is true or not, it still gives you confidence. It also brings the team together I think. As an individual sport, the team aspect is lost in most races, but in practice I think you build a bond with your teammates through hard work (and naked pull-ups).

      III. As for swimming slow at SJU and SP, who added 4 seconds in a 100? I saw some flyers that added some time (just finishing a 200 fly without getting a sympathy clap is a success in my mind). I could have missed some guys on the results.

    • #43044

      Jon Carlson is not an old school ground and pound coach. Additionally, JC administers, in my mind, one of the more effective double tapers in d3, which is not an easy task.

      Jonah Winter is a total bad ass.

    • #43045
      caveman12
      Member

      Tobias-
      Last I checked, every team in the MIAC is d3. It is an unfair comparison because there d3 and d1 athletes have different priorities. Plus, many d1 athletes don’t graduate in 4 years.

      Wonderboy-
      I hadn’t checked the forum since I replied to this post yesterday. See, I have a thing called a life, and the d3 forum isn’t something I put into my top priorities to check. Don’t you have a job you need to be doing? If not, tell me your profession so I can look into it because I would appreciate lots frees time. Or are you just bored/ unhappy with your life? I’m guessing a little bit of both.
      I suggest you stop acting like you are the most knowledgeable about swimming, realize there is no real right or wrong way to train a swimmer or philosophies on the season as long as it all comes together and you swim your best at the biggest meet of the year. I’ll admit, you most likely do know a fair amount more about swimming than I do, but your way is not the only way. If it has worked for you and your swimmers, great keep doing it that way. GAC’s way has always worked for them so why is there a need to make a drastic change. You need to realize that.

      It doesn’t matter what all you guys think. The fact of the matter is what Jonah said. Neither of those 2 meets were conference or nationals. No one loafed their races; we still attacked each race as we would, had it been conference. But no one has the mindset they do during conference. I’m not saying we don’t try, but you just can’t get pumped up for these meets nearly as much as your taper meet. Is this right? Well it depends how you look at it. Jon’s main focus has always been and always will be conference during his tenure. All his swimmers believe in him and have complete faith in him. So that is all the swimmers’ focus as well (if you don’t believe in this philosophy, well good thing you aren’t a GAC swimmer because you would not be happy. There is no need to state your opinion on this because it has been discussed in other threads and it’s been beat down. This is the way it is and always will be). I don’t believe it matters much what you do in season as long as you can perform at your best for taper meets. If you swim lights out the entire season, and fail to do so at conference and nationals, it’s a failure of a season. GAC has had a history of having big drops for conference meet. This is where we focus on having our best meet of the season. If you think differently, I don’t care. I especially don’t care if wonderboy agrees or not, because he has never swum for Gustavus so he will never understand what it is all about.

      Mac and Chapel Partner are also total bad asses.
      And so is Crunchy Sock for picking me for fantasy (I know I haven’t been performing the greatest but I promise I’ll be good come conference).

    • #43046
      wonderboy33
      Member

      It’s funny how quickly you guys back away when you think the team is starting to get wind of criticism. I have no idea if Jon is a ground and pound coach, I’m just going off what many of the former and current GAC swimmers have said regarding being broken down and that they work so hard. I mean Mac, you initially said that there were guys that would swim like complete crap during the regular season and drop 15 seconds during taper. You even said you didn’t feel it was the best way to train. Chapel, you also echoed that sentiment. Given that this is now apparently not the case, doesn’t that make my original point stronger?

      Chapel, you mentioned that the teams at the SJU invite didn’t swim well. For one, SJU members apparently don’t join the team and start competing until december (I have one of them on my fantasy team). Secondly, what about Olaf and Carleton? In my mind, they have been swimming fast all along. Why is that? Are they lazy? Tobias was exactly right, being tired is a cop-out. Many D1 swimmers and programs swim fast all season. The fact that caveman decided to play into the excuse game makes it even worse.

      100 x 100’s is a stupid set. I feel bad that you had to go through such a boring, worthless set. It sounds as if it was more or less a one-time a season thing so at least you weren’t dazzled by that kind of creativity on a regular basis. If you needed this kind of set to prove you were valuable and to bring people together, more power to you. I’d rather stick with naked synchronized diving.

      So, when you got to conference, you were thinking “Thank God we did that 100 x 100’s. I don’t think I would have had the confidence to race the guy next to me without having completed that set. Never mind the fact that it’s a pretty common set and the guy next to me may well have completed that set as well. I’m sure I completed it on faster intervals though.” I guess any edge you can create in your mind is a good one.

    • #43047
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Tobias-
      Last I checked, every team in the MIAC is d3. It is an unfair comparison because there d3 and d1 athletes have different priorities. Plus, many d1 athletes don’t graduate in 4 years.

      Doesn’t matter, I believe the maximum amount of training hours allowed is the same.

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Wonderboy-
      I hadn’t checked the forum since I replied to this post yesterday. See, I have a thing called a life, and the d3 forum isn’t something I put into my top priorities to check. Don’t you have a job you need to be doing? If not, tell me your profession so I can look into it because I would appreciate lots frees time. Or are you just bored/ unhappy with your life? I’m guessing a little bit of both.

      It actually doesn’t take me that much time to read and then respond. My brain must work faster. You have just insulted the entire forum.

      @caveman12 wrote:

      I’ll admit, you most likely do know a fair amount more about swimming than I do

      Thanks, I appreciate that.

      @caveman12 wrote:

      I’m not saying we don’t try, but you just can’t get pumped up for these meets nearly as much as your taper meet.

      Very poor.

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Jon’s main focus has always been and always will be conference during his tenure.

      Really?

      @caveman12 wrote:

      I especially don’t care if wonderboy agrees or not, because he has never swum for Gustavus so he will never understand what it is all about.

      You don’t care? You’re not an english major at GAC are you?

      @caveman12 wrote:

      And so is Crunchy Sock for picking me for fantasy (I know I haven’t been performing the greatest but I promise I’ll be good come conference).

      Excellent selection.

    • #43048
      caveman12
      Member

      Once again you bring up d1 programs. How many times do we need to tell you that no MIAC team is a d1 team. They are completely programs, many of them get some sort of a scholarship to go there and go to school because of swimming. d1 schools being able to swim fast all season is not proving your case. You should give up.

    • #43049

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I mean Mac, you initially said that there were guys that would swim like complete crap during the regular season and drop 15 seconds during taper.

      Let me clarify, GAC, when I swam there, had 5 or so swimmers on the conference roster who had little to no business swimming in college. I’m talking 2:35 in the 200 fly dropping down to a 2:20. Jon was not a ground and pound coach for a majority of the swimmers at GAC. Perhaps Jon was a ground and pound coach for the 5+ swimmers GAC had who should not have been swimming. He did get them all into the consoles, so perhaps that is the operative philosophy for bad swimmers.

      To an extent, I also think the ground and pound philosophy extends to the swimmer. And my earlier comment was that I did not adhere to the ground and pound philosophy. I didn’t grow a beard, I occasionally wore a cap during dual meets, etc. Other swimmers in the same program adhered to this philosophy, including current assistant to the head coach, Andy Hagen. Mr. Hagen, who grew up under the ground and pound philosophy of our shared HS coach, focused on one huge taper. This same HS coach could not hold his team’s taper from sections to state, and we all added a half second per 50. It seems to me that this philosophy does not lend itself well to a double taper, and that assistant to the head coach, Andy Hagen still believes in it.

      If Whitaker Davis has a crappy double taper, I am blaming Andy.

    • #43050
      caveman12
      Member

      Hey wonderboy, how about instead of trying to insult me via a forum, you either:
      a) Call Me
      b) Wait til conference
      to discuss this like a real man.

      And no I am not an english major, in fact have yet to take a class (trying to avoid it). I feel like my major will bring me more gratification for completion and will allow me to do much more with my life after college. After all, that is the reason I am at college.
      If you honestly need to put down my typing to a non formal group skills to make you feel good about yourself, then keep doing it, I’ll be glad to help.

    • #43051
      Low Tide
      Member

      Hey wonderboy, how about instead of trying to insult me via a forum, you either:
      a) Call Me
      b) Wait til conference
      to discuss this like a real man.

      HaHaHaHa!!!

      I would put that in my signature.

    • #43052
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      GAC swimming is an entirely diferent world now from what it was when Mac, or even I swam. Mac was probably the first GAC swimmer to ever completed a 200 fly with his arms out of the water on the last stroke. I think it was during Mac’s tenure that they filled out a conference roster for the first time. Jon was a 25 year old tennis coach who also coached swimming, and not all of the swimmers had ever swam competitively until they got to college, and decided joining a team would be better than joining a frat. Jon’s coaching evolved as his teams got better on the strength of his recruiting. I graduated in 2000, and for the first 2 years I was there, we spent the first week of practice literally learning all the strokes, because not everyone could swim legal breastroke. And not a single person on the team swam, or even exercised in the off season, so the first month was spent just getting into shape. That is how you have 15 second in season drops. My first 200 free every year was usually about 1:58 because I spent the offseason drinking, watching tv, and not doing chicks. That doesn’t happen anymore. My freshman year was the last year GAC ever did 100 100’s because it sucked, and Jon realized it sucked, and it didn’t make sense to have an entire team of guys who couldn’t lift their arms for a week. That was 11 years ago that we did one garbage set. Even then we weren’t pounding out garbage yards after the first month of the season. I happen to know for a fact that Jon is not throwing garbage sets on the board, but I don’t even know why we are talking about that, because I don’t think you even said that.

      I can’t believe this thread is still going, and has gotten so personal and inflamatory. GAC swam somewhat slow at their January invitational. GAC always swims slow at their January Invitational. Why? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? Who cares? And really, it’s not like they completely laid an egg and were barely finishing races. There were many people “within arms length” of their in season best time. There more unimpressive swims than impressive ones, but nobody embarassed themselves, and I’m sure everyone was competing hard. They have swam fast all year and will swim fast at Conference. If you just read this thread and didn’t look at the results, you’d think Hanson went 5:35 in the 500 and Connor went 58.2 in the fly. Yeah, not trying, or not competing in a meet would be inexcuseable, and the sign of poorly coached team. But that is just simply not what happened here.

      I apologize for the lack of humor in this post, it won’t happen again.

      QED*

      * I have no idea what that means, but sometimes I see people put it at the end of stuff.

    • #43053

      This is turning into the epic Mac v Caveman battle from last year.

      Wonderboy, I never backed away from shit. I just clarified that as a guy who swam for both coaches, Jon worked us harder at GAC than Tom Hodgson did at UST. And because of that, I thought UST swam faster at the SJU Invite while GAC guys dragged a bit. I also thought SJU didn’t swim that fast either (guys like Kubat who didn’t swim first semester aside).

      I just wanted to clarify my stance after talk of 4000 IMs were being thrown around (maybe not in this thread, but other threads), that we didn’t do this type of stuff.

      I erased the rest of what I wrote (too long and boring). We can discuss this at conference over a cig, and talk about how I tried to use “I swam 100x100s in college” as a pick-up line at the Loop last weekend, and somehow didn’t get laid.

    • #43054
      Monti
      Member

      @CRUNCHYSOCK wrote:

      I graduated in 2000, and for the first 2 years I was there, we spent the first week of practice literally learning all the strokes, because not everyone could swim legal breastroke.

      Chris Kramer never did learn to do a legal breaststroke.

    • #43055

      Caveman12 has made some epic posts. I’ve become a huge fan. At the very least, he tops the list of people I want to hang out with more in 2008. Same with Jonah Winter.

    • #43056
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Once again you bring up d1 programs. How many times do we need to tell you that no MIAC team is a d1 team. They are completely programs, many of them get some sort of a scholarship to go there and go to school because of swimming. d1 schools being able to swim fast all season is not proving your case. You should give up.

      Agreed, they are completely programs. That’s the smartest thing you’ve said thus far. This is what you should give up: the idea that money should dictate how fast you swim. I have not compared the ability level of Michael Phelps vs. D3 or D1 vs. D3. I have pointed out (actually Tobias did) that d1 swimmers are expected to swim fast all year. This is a relative point. No, not involving siblings (I’m anticipating where you will go wrong in understanding this argument), instead relative to their unrested best times.

    • #43057
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @caveman12 wrote:

      Hey wonderboy, how about instead of trying to insult me via a forum, you either:
      a) Call Me
      b) Wait til conference
      to discuss this like a real man.

      So there is still such a thing as Napoleon complex? Who knew. For someone who doesn’t care what I think, you sure have found it necessary to stay in the mix. It’s also really hard to come up with ammunition given your ability to spew forth meaningless crap. I suggest you do one of two things:

      A. Start swimming fast immediately
      B. Wait until after my battle with silentp is over. I don’t want to screw up your taper. You can be part of the main event, after mac vs. chapel or hagen. Remember, I was a sprinter, you never know how crazy we can be.

    • #43058
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      Hey wonderboy, how about instead of trying to insult me via a forum, you either:
      a) Call Me
      b) Wait til conference
      to discuss this like a real man.

      HaHaHaHa!!!

      I would put that in my signature.

      Could you explain to him how to create a signature? That would be the first step.

    • #43059
      Low Tide
      Member

      Nah, if he were calling *me* out there, I would put it in *my* signature.
      That would be a very proud moment.

    • #43060
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Good point.

    • #43061
      The Treat
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Good point.

      wow. this thread was entertaining. it was a little unfortunate that i joined late and, by seeing wonderboy’s signature, already knew that someone challenged him to a fight. oh well.

      i dont think we can use michael phelps as an example. his body gets rid of lactic acid faster than any swimmer they have ever tested at the olympic facilities in colorado (by a fairly decent margin if i remember correctly). so even if he works as hard as everyone else, he’ll be more rested by the next day.

      as for the whole adding 4 seconds per 100, swimming broken down, i’m on wonderboy’s side. i think in 99% of the cases you shouldnt be adding that much time, no matter what. if you’re sick (there aren’t too many valid excuses) you might have a bad race, but it should never happen to an entire team. i dont buy the, “our focus is conference so we just can’t get excited for these races” argument. i had that mentality a couple times in my career. one time was at the university of chicago invite and i think i was about 8-9 seconds over my end of year time in the 200 free. obviously my coach was pissed and i had nothing to say in response to the race. he took me out of the next race and pretty much told me to get my head in the game. even though i had been feeling sorry for myself earlier in the day cause “i was so broken down” or “we lifted yesterday afternoon”, i realized i have to stop making excuses and just get it done. the next race was a relay and i had probably my best non-taper split of the season.

      i think i realized that you can’t afford to not be mentally prepared for those races. you have to have a killer instinct every time you get on the blocks. i didnt have that earlier in my career and there would be times at nationals or conference when i would try to get mentally ready for those races, but i just couldn’t do it (Ever had a taper race where you didn’t swim as well as you thought you could have?). it probably happened because i didnt practice getting mentally ready for my races all year. i made that my focus for my entire senior year and it paid off. dual meet, alumni meet, training trip, dive set, it didnt matter. i wanted to kill every single race i was in.

    • #43062

      The way people are talking, it sounds as if every GAC swimmer added 4 seconds per 100. Did any? I looked back at the results and didn’t find anyone who swam that bad. Maybe I missed a guy. If I did, please let me (everyone) know.

      The “slowest” swims I saw were for the 200 fly guys, who mostly added 2-5 seconds while finishing 1-6 in the event. Since I never swam it, I can’t really comment on whether this is an event you could really dog. Just finishing a 200 fly would seem good to me.

    • #43063
      wonderboy33
      Member

      2, 3, 4, 5, 6+ seconds, what difference does it make? They were slow, and there’s no questioning that. One sentence of criticism and the entire GAC universe has been thrown upside down. Don’t worry folks, everything is going to be ok. You’re swimming for the greatest taper coach in the MIAC.

    • #43064
      silentp
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      2, 3, 4, 5, 6+ seconds, what difference does it make?

      2 seconds off a PR for a 100 would be pretty good for an in-season swim (remember Cielo? oh wait, I suppose Marsh doesn’t know what he’s doing as a coach), so I would say it makes a lot of difference… unless you weren’t speaking figuratively, then the difference between 2 and 6 seconds is 4.

    • #43065
      Low Tide
      Member

      I would never have considered myself a bad in-season swimmer, but I was never anywhere close to 2 seconds off my PR in my main events (100 yards). In fact, 3-4 seconds above was normal for me… and I definitely got up for my dual meet swims.

      I do think freestylers are able to maintain a closer margin than strokers (I was fly and back).

    • #43066
      Monti
      Member

      I belive Wonderboy referred (pretty much every time) to in season personal bests. He never referred to them as lifetime personal bests. yes, if you were 2 seconds off your lifetime personal best, then you probably swam great, however if you were 2+ seconds off your in season best, then thats a different story.

    • #43067
      silentp
      Member

      @Monti wrote:

      I belive Wonderboy referred (pretty much every time) to in season personal bests. He never referred to them as lifetime personal bests. yes, if you were 2 seconds off your lifetime personal best, then you probably swam great, however if you were 2+ seconds off your in season best, then thats a different story.

      I never saw that, but if that’s the case, I do agree. You should not be more than a couple seconds off your in-season personal bests at anytime. I don’t think anyone was that far off the times they were putting up earlier in the season however. I could be wrong.

    • #43068
      Low Tide
      Member

      Ahhh… making much more sense if that is the case.

    • #43069

      If this thread degrades to reason and civility, I will be very disappointed.

    • #43070
      Monti
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      If this thread degrades to reason and civility, I will be very disappointed.

      jackass. there, does that make you feel better?

    • #43071

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Again, excuses. I didn’t imply that GAC swimmers didn’t “try hard”. It’s called guts people, it’s not that difficult to figure out. There is no reason to add 3-4 seconds in a 100 at this time of the year. It takes racing experience to understand that you have to swim fast regardless of how you feel. Feeling tired is inevitable. It takes guts (or nuts) to swim fast when you are tired. As for my training background, I’ll let it speak for itself. Plenty of people could back it up.

      I’m just pointing out that you said guys added 3-4 seconds per 100, and I’m wondering who did. If someone did, I am sorry. But if we’re basing that GAC swimmers are pussies on some guys swimming a bit slow (as in not as fast as they did at Carthage when they most likely had rested a couple of days), then I think we need examples of this.

      If there are guys who totally turded out, I’ll stand corrected. But as I see it, it looked as if most of these guys swam extremely well at Carthage with a little rest, and then not as fast at SJU with no rest at all.

      Every Ole swimmer not named Westby (he’s sure super) swam considerably slower these past two weekends than they did at Carthage as well. From that, without taking into account any other factors like how much they rested, or if a guy wore a swim cap, or if he shaved the pubes sticking out of his paper suit, I have come to 2 conclusions…

      1. Hauck+1 sucks as a coach.
      2. Ole swimmers are lazy.

    • #43072
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Again, excuses. I didn’t imply that GAC swimmers didn’t “try hard”. It’s called guts people, it’s not that difficult to figure out. There is no reason to add 3-4 seconds in a 100 at this time of the year. It takes racing experience to understand that you have to swim fast regardless of how you feel. Feeling tired is inevitable. It takes guts (or nuts) to swim fast when you are tired. As for my training background, I’ll let it speak for itself. Plenty of people could back it up.

      I’m just pointing out that you said guys added 3-4 seconds per 100, and I’m wondering who did. If someone did, I am sorry. But if we’re basing that GAC swimmers are pussies on some guys swimming a bit slow (as in not as fast as they did at Carthage when they most likely had rested a couple of days), then I think we need examples of this.

      If there are guys who totally turded out, I’ll stand corrected. But as I see it, it looked as if most of these guys swam extremely well at Carthage with a little rest, and then not as fast at SJU with no rest at all.

      Every Ole swimmer not named Westby (he’s sure super) swam considerably slower these past two weekends than they did at Carthage as well. From that, without taking into account any other factors like how much they rested, or if a guy wore a swim cap, or if he shaved the pubes sticking out of his paper suit, I have come to 2 conclusions…

      1. Hauck+1 sucks as a coach.
      2. Ole swimmers are lazy.

      I was referring to in-season bests (in fact, the current season). I would prefer not to list the guys that added a bunch of time (I may have coached a few of them) but I suppose I could send them to you personally if that’s what you’d like. Also, I wasn’t comparing how they swam at Carthage vs. the last 2 weeks necessarily. I know a number of guys were rested for Carthage so that comparison really wouldn’t make sense. I was talking about their best unrested time so far vs. the last couple of weeks. If you’re interested in the actual numbers, who added what, then figure out those results. I’m not interested in adding it up, it would take too long. We’ve already established that they swam slow, you former gusties said they always swim slow at this time, current gusties said they can’t get pumped up and expect to swim slow at these meets, why are there any more questions?

    • #43073
      Duck
      Member

      If this thread degrades to reason and civility, I will be very disappointed.

      I don’t like Norwegians at all. The sun never sets, the bar never opens, and the whole country smells of kippers.

      ~ Evelyn Waugh

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