Scored Nats:

@DonCheadle wrote:

Hope can score 100 points if:

@DonCheadle wrote:

Even with that, Kzoo will beat Hope if they score top 4 in both medlies and Ellis and Fonzi score 3 top 8 swims (that would be a minimum of 60 points in the medlies and 33 for the individuals).

Did you just say that 93 > 100?
Must be some new theoretical math that hasn’t trickled down to place like Hope yet. 😉

How quickly people forget about the league champs! Olivet (ok, Meisner) has 11 points with his seed times in the breasteses. And Albion (aka Paul Krone) has 13.

And call me a skeptic, but I don’t see Ellis and Fonz getting top 8 in three events each. I’d say they’re a lock for three total, plus Fonz in the 200 breast if he finds some sort of capacity for distances above 100 yards. And throw in possible (not probable, IMO) consol appearances in the 50. Also, Dekker has a good chance at scoring in the 200IM and an outside shot in the butterflies…maybe 10 individual points for him?

What are the chances of Kzoo sneaking some free relays into consols? This will depend a lot on the two relay-only guys, Grenier and Meat Truck.

Anyone know why Ellis would be entered in the 50 rather than the fly? My guess is they fear it will hurt his backstroke, where he would be one of the favorites.

Dekker didn’t have a good meet last year but he was solo. This year he has a year of experience under his belt and a team of dudes. I think he’ll score this year, hopefully in 2 events.

I would say they will put a free relay into the top 16, probably only 1, but who knows. They are using relay pads, so at least 1 relay will be dq’d in the 200 FR (yes it’s negative but i’m betting on it, no matter what happened last year). The 400 FR also has a shot of scoring if they use Fonsy on it, which they likely will. The 800 FR is seeded 21 seconds slower than the next slowest relay… ouch.

My strategy for the 2 and 4 would be to put ellis 2nd. He’s a good relay swimmer so I don’t want him to lead off, but i also don’t want to be out of the race waiting for him.

I’d go
Fonsy
Ellis
Meat Truck
Greiner

THere is no way Soriano scores in the 50, not unless he drops over a second off his seed time. He will be in the top 8 in the 100 breast, and Ellis should make the top 8 in both backstrokes. Kalamazoo’s medleys will be strong, so that being said they should beat Hope but we will wait and see

@swim5599 wrote:

THere is no way Soriano scores in the 50, not unless he drops over a second off his seed time. He will be in the top 8 in the 100 breast, and Ellis should make the top 8 in both backstrokes. Kalamazoo’s medleys will be strong, so that being said they should beat Hope but we will wait and see

I believe Cheadle meant 3 individual swims in the top 8 for Ellis and Fonsy being the 100 back, 200 back and 100 breast.

calvin women have a good chance to place 3rd at Nats after scoring out the women’s meet. they could also win their first relay at nats.

as for guys, kzoo will score big points in their medley relays and individuals. I see both medleys in the top 3 and back/breast in the top 6. I don’t see any hope swimmer or relay finishing in the top 6.

I’m surprised Ress was never mentioned in the 100 controversy. None of you predicted him to win the 100. i personally don’t care who got 5th or 6th or 7th.

@SixBags wrote:

I’m surprised Ress was never mentioned in the 100 controversy. None of you predicted him to win the 100. i personally don’t care who got 5th or 6th or 7th.

Why? He wasn’t involved with any controversy. Props to him for winning, though.

@silentp wrote:

The 800 FR is seeded 21 seconds slower than the next slowest relay… ouch.

Two things about that relay:
1. That’s the time from EMU at midseason – I think we were about 7:10 at MIAAs but it got DQ’d.. so we’re still a ways back but it shouldn’t be as much of an embarassment.

2. If Ellis is on it, then thats an upgrade from Entwistle who was on in it at MIAAs. The wild card is going to be Greiner. He could swim it well and surprise some people, or he could take it out like an idiot and split 1:56. I don’t know if he’ll be on it, but if they want to take a shot at fielding all the relays, one of the individual guys would have to drop their third event and take one for the team.

Either way, it should be a fun meet to keep track of. I wonder if there’s ever been an instance where the 5th place team at MIAAs scored more points than the league champ.

@SixBags wrote:

calvin women have a good chance to place 3rd at Nats after scoring out the women’s meet. they could also win their first relay at nats.

It seems you feel quite strongly that they will finish third and with the greatest MIAA swimmer of all time, why wouldn’t you be confident? Not to mention on paper they are the 3rd place team right now ahead of emory if you use calvin’s 400 free time from miaas and count divers.

In an effort to generate revenue for this great forum that we all use, I’d like to challenge you on this. Now $10 is a great donation, but let’s ramp it up, shall we? Calvin gets 4th or worse, you owe CEO Jansen and D3swimming $50. Calvin gets third or better, I will pay up.

Come on. Let’s go Knights.

I ponied up for my lost bet… at least it went towards this site and not into the grubby hands of Hope alum, where who knows what evil deeds my money would help bring about 🙂

@El Duderino wrote:

Either way, it should be a fun meet to keep track of. I wonder if there’s ever been an instance where the 5th place team at MIAAs scored more points than the league champ.

Last year comes to mind… Albion (5th at leagues) 10> Olivet 0

If Calvin would have qualified a relay, we could have potentially seen a situation where the league champ finishes 5th among all the conference teams represented at nationals.

Kind of in Olivet’s defense, since 2000, only 1 MIAA Championship team has been the highest MIAA scorer at NCAAs (Hope 2005).

It would be nice to see Kzoo sneak back into the top 10. Middlebury has some room to fall and is very similar to K in many regards and it will come own to who retapers better (remember K has had the ideal 5 weeks while Middlebury has had only 3).

I did not look at the psyche sheet for this but is Heyboer going to 2 Im or the 5 free on Thursday.

200 IM.

Is SixBags getting away with not responding to that challenge? Accept or decline, you woudl think you would see a response.

Typical Calvin…..talk big, perform small.

You can bring it back to mops and buckets years ago where the calvin mens and womens swim teams brought out mops and buckets signifying they were going to sweep the dual meet with Hope. What happened? Hope did the clean up. Or we could talk about any 400 Free Relay prediction that was made by Calvin. If i were sixbags i wouldnt’ take the bet, unless he wants to pay 50 dollars to a good cause.

Thanks T-Bone for informing me of Stiles post. The talk of smack obviously has deep pockets. I’ll put $10 on Calvin women score fourth or better (to d3swimming.com). Here’s the twist, if they score 5th or higher I owe $10 to d3swimming.com and (something else). If they score 4th or better, Stiles owes $20 to d3swimming.com.

Jansen for the sake of this site, I hope you’re cheering for Calvin.

Stiles lets box. Do always take my posts seriously? Hope so, cuz Hope sucks! haha

(EDITED BY SILENTP)

“What’s up Houston? Jump on it!”
-Sir Mixalot

Stevo
The mops and brooms were sweet. Anything is better than standing on the deck admiring yourself after a 2 hour tan and then ripping your pre-ripped shirt. If I recall you got mopped in the 50 and 100 by BW every year.

I just made that up, not sure what you swam…Did you swim for Hope or do you just like teaming up with stiles on me?

@SixBags wrote:

Thanks T-Bone for informing me of Stiles post. The talk of smack obviously has deep pockets. I’ll put $10 on Calvin women score fourth or better. Here’s the twist, if they score 5th or higher I owe $10 to CEO Jansen and $5 to Stiles. If they score 4th or better, Stiles owes $20 to CEO Jansen.

Jansen for the sake of this site, I hope you’re cheering for Calvin.

First you tell us all how Calvin has a good shot at top 3 and now you want to make a bet they place in the top 4!?!!? It should be a virtual guarantee the Calvin women are in the top 4. If not they should be very disappointed!

Way to make a prediction and back off of it when $10 is on the line.

oh yeah… Calvin sucks

I’ll be the first HMS to say I am really genuinely rooting for Calvin women. Third place would be totally awesome. I hope Becky sets a bunch of records and puts the MIAA back on the top three podium.

SixBags, your last couple of posts were really weak. I think you should stick to Stiles’ original bet because you really have a good chance at winning.

Also, I think it would be a little crazy at this point to say that Hope will beat Kzoo at nats. It’s not however crazy to say that Hope will move up and place higher than 17th. This is an entirely new group of Hope swimmers, separate from the team that consistently got 13th-16th for the last couple of years (I am partially to blame for the mediocrity). Patnott trained these guys a lot different than last year. His goal is to prepare them better for the first day. Last year’s Thursday was a disaster.

And another thing… I get the impression that some Calvin-Hope hatred is surfacing due to the basketball tournament game. If you are a true D3 swimmer, this should only accentuate your apathy for the welfare of other sports in the MIAA. The overwhelming effort devoted to the Hope Calvin rivalry exclusively as a basketball thing pushes me further into indifference for the whole matter. Unless of course you are the type of division III swimmer that takes the rivalry seriously… cough cough SixBags. The only rivalries I take seriously are swimming rivalries because all the rest is all hype. You’ve got to be kidding me if you think that Hope Calvin is anywhere near Duke/North Carolina. Give me a freaking break.

Speaking of that first day as the captain is,

In the 200 FR, Hope could really gain some momentum by even duplicating their time which (in my opinion) would put them top 8. K, on the other hand, looks to move up and be in the consol final, something they can do if things go well and would help them get a top 10 finish.

In the 400 MR, Hope will have a very tough time moving up much, but holding their ground or even gaining a single spot would be nice for their final placement.

As for K in this relay, what do people think about their seeding for their heat? If you haven’t looked at it, they will be in a heat that goes like this for the middle of the pool:

3. Emory
4. Kzoo
5. Kenyon

This will certainly put the pressure on them right away, which could be good or bad… i am hoping good

I screwed up. It’s late

@Captain Insano wrote:

I’ll be the first HMS to say I am really genuinely rooting for Calvin women. Third place would be totally awesome. I hope Becky sets a bunch of records and puts the MIAA back on the top three podium.

And another thing… I get the impression that some Calvin-Hope hatred is surfacing due to the basketball tournament game. If you are a true D3 swimmer, this should only accentuate your apathy for the welfare of other sports in the MIAA. The overwhelming effort devoted to the Hope Calvin rivalry exclusively as a basketball thing pushes me further into indifference for the whole matter. Unless of course you are the type of division III swimmer that takes the rivalry seriously… cough cough SixBags. The only rivalries I take seriously are swimming rivalries because all the rest is all hype. You’ve got to be kidding me if you think that Hope Calvin is anywhere near Duke/North Carolina. Give me a freaking break.

I’d be happy for Calvin’s women if they do well. I just think SixBags is a moron to say Calvin will be in the top 3 and then not even back it up with a $10 bet.

Kurt, I think you view Hope-Calvin differently than some because you didn’t grow up in West Michigan and you weren’t on the team when Veltman urinated on the sauna rocks. Yes, I understand Calvin is not a HUGE swimming rivalry with Hope, but I always took immense satisfaction in beating them.

On another note, I was perusing Calvin’s Top 10 lists and noticed that prior to becoming ineligible John Toll knocked Coach Gelderloos out of the 10th position in the 200 Fly.

Bags, I don’t get what this:

“Stevo
The mops and brooms were sweet. Anything is better than standing on the deck admiring yourself after a 2 hour tan and then ripping your pre-ripped shirt. If I recall you got mopped in the 50 and 100 by BW every year. “

has to do with anything? Now a couple things come to mind….

1) If you ever saw Stevo you would know that he is nearly as pasty white as Brandon King. Pretty sure he wasn’t one to be spending time at the beach. If you’d like to reference Team Tan Captain Dave Ornee` then you are certainly welcome to do so.

1A) There really aren’t any mirrors on the deck to admire yourself

1B) The tans weren’t two hours, most of them ranged between 8-20 minutes.

2) Yes, the mops and brooms were sweet. But as I recall you were still in high school. The irony of the ‘sweep’ that Saturday was that the team that carried out the brooms and mops didn’t win either meet.

3) What was with the pre-ripped TShirts to begin with? I never understood that either. I preferred to think of them as man made v-necks.

4) What does Brad White have to do with anything? Are your referencing your best swimmer as some sort of attack on Stevo? Don’t you think Brad White should mop up the floor with Stevo? Afterall, he was a 21.04 in high school.

4A) Stevo did beat Brad at MIAA’s Brad’s senior year, but I still don’t get where this came from? I couldn’t reference any league meets prior to ’04.

5) Good luck to all the MIAA women this weekend.

6) Hope the wedding plans are coming along well.

7) You did say that Calvin has a good chance at third…put the cocky little smurf in his place. Now you’re backing out on your previous statement and asking for something that is almost a certainty. Although, I’d be weary of Amherst, Sasser is SO good.

This is awesome. SIxBags, you are hilarious.

I don’t understand why you won’t agree to the original bet? I could go back and cite how you said “calvin has a good chance to get third” (which shoudl translate to you having a good chane to win this wager) or about how they have the best swimmer in MIAA history (who happens to be your future wife), why wouldn’t you bet on that?

Further, why back down the money? I mean, I know you have a wedding coming up and those are expensive, but you scored it out! They can get 3rd!

You have quite a bit of aggression and that is fine. I’ll tell you what, same original bet that I proposed but we will back down the money $30. Deal?

So, I need two things from you: first, why you wouldn’t agree to the original bet; second, deal or no deal?

I look for your response before prelims starts tomorrow.

C’mon SixBags- Stiles is right… I think you gotta put your money where your mouth is and go for the original bet? 😀

Unless of course you don’t really have that much confidence in the Calvin women?…

As for the mops and buckets – Thank you Calvin for making that one of the most enjoyable dual meet victories (in my top 3 for sure) of our college careers.

@T-Bone wrote:

As for the mops and buckets – Thank you Calvin for making that one of the most enjoyable dual meet victories (in my top 3 for sure) of our college careers.

I concur. Also, remember the sign in the locker room that pointed towards the deck that said “This way to Calvin victory dance”? I mean, who does that? I don’t even think a Kenyon would do something like that.

Given Kenyon’s utter lack of dignity and respect for the sport, as well as Steen’s penchant for encouraging juvenile antics out of his swimmers, I imagine them posting a sign at Hope’s Natatorium reading, “This Way to Public Toilet”.

This is why D3swimming.com is fun. You can personally attack me all you want sixbags. Yes Brad White did consistently beat me, but he never went faster than he did in high school…do you know why? He went to Calvin. I did have a satisfaction of beating him my senior year and I had no business doing so, he was way more talented than i was. I am glad you thought the mops and buckets was sweet….so did the Hope swim team after the fact. As for the bet with stiles, grow a pair. You make reference to the ripped t-shirt but you were the guy dancing on the bulkhead like a chip and dale. If you think the girls can get third then put your money where you mouth is or be a typical all talk Calvin swimmer.

Sitting around talking about Nationals is familiar territory isn’t sixbags? Kind of like every year for you at Calvin.

@Stevo wrote:

This is why D3swimming.com is fun. You can personally attack me all you want sixbags. Yes Brad White did consistently beat me, but he never went faster than he did in high school…do you know why? He went to Calvin. I did have a satisfaction of beating him my senior year and I had no business doing so, he was way more talented than i was. I am glad you thought the mops and buckets was sweet….so did the Hope swim team after the fact. As for the bet with stiles, grow a pair. You make reference to the ripped t-shirt but you were the guy dancing on the bulkhead like a chip and dale. If you think the girls can get third then put your money where you mouth is or be a typical all talk Calvin swimmer.

Hilarious. I am with you completely

@JackBauer wrote:

Sitting around talking about Nationals is familiar territory isn’t sixbags? Kind of like every year for you at Calvin.

Classy.

Stevo, pretty sure you beat Brad your junior year as he had graduated by the time you were a senior.

Stevo, unless you mean the Rescue Rangers, it’s Chippendale. Though seeing a couple of chipmunks dancing on the bulkhead would be kinda cool, too.

chip and dale rescue rangers was a sweet show.

-the calvin women look ok going into finals tonigh….could use a little help from their diver to be in the top 4. did sixbags ever actually make the bet?

-anybody notice that the hope women seemed all over the place this morning? sara d added 5 seconds in her IM, the backstroker (reest) in the medley, who’s usually good for a 59 low (right?) was over a minute…..whereas the 200free relay dropped time, the medley ended up the same, with a huge split by lisa smith…….main point of this is; did patnott change anything up this year? and does this mean anything to, or about, the hope men?

it’d be good to see 2 teams in the top 14 at nats again…..and if the recruiting keeps going well, maybe calvin or albion can start representing a little better.

mav,

sarah lost her goggles, I know its a weak excuse but it did happens. There was some stuff that changed from last year, but i don’t think how the girls are swimming has any bearing on how the guys will swim.

hmmmm, all this talk of old cartoons made me wonder which was better:

rescue rangers or tailspin?

then the winner of abover or gargoyles?

i think gargoyles win no matter what….a show about statues that can come to life was a damn fine idea.

ahh, lost goggles……reminds me of the one time i almost actually beat scott whitbeck (when he lost his goggles at nats 2004, unfortunately he would have most likely scored a good amount of points in that race if they hadn’t fallen off)

i was just taking a look at the psyche sheet for the men and thought about this:
with the results of the 500 this year at miaas, k waterstone an alumni now, and heyboer in the 200 IM at nats, will we ever see him swim the 500 at miaas again? (i think this would be a good idea for them)

any predicted place for the young man in the IM…i’m thinking he’ll be top 11, maybe getting into the top 8

No Sixbags calvined out. Figures.

Sorry for not knowing the correct spelling of males strippers, as for the cartoons you gotta give some credit to Duck Tales.

Cheadle what off events did Brad White get faster in? I am not sure and dont’ feel like looking it up.

Facenorth,you’re right it was my junior year, they all kind of blend together.

Cheadle,

I believe Blohm was able to benefit from a standup start in high school. I’m not saying that is solely responsible for the difference there (wasn’t there a guy from K who had a wicked fast 50 back in high school because of a standup start…Kelley maybe?) but when he arrived at Hope he was seldom asked to swim backstroke because Ian Kobes was on the roster. Blohm 21.19 to 20.67 and 47.+ to 45.3 in his primary events are pretty damn solid. 1:47 to splitting a 1:39 is also head turning in my opinion.

I would say coming in though that his primary event was the 100 back, but with later improvements he made the 50 and the 100 his best

Ah, the Kurt Blohm 100 back time argument, what a fun one. The last time it was discussed it was regarding the 400 MR his junior year. Hope swimmers used his 50.6 while K swimmers brought up that it was with a stand up start, funny now that the roles are reversed eh? Either way, he added time (not much) because he was 51.0 at YMCA Nationals, which was brought up back then too (no i didn’t go look, i just remember these things).

I like the fact that they don’t do the stand up start in high school anymore, but they should make the IM back-breast turn uniform also.

completely off topic, but talking about backstroke starts….I’ve seen stand up starts, obviously not anymore, i’ve seen regular starts, gutter starts, but here in houston i witnessed a first for me. The second place finisher in the backstroke (coombs from new paltz) did a bulkhead start. I kid you not, this girl grabbed the top of the bulkhead to pull herself up for a start, i don’t know how her fingers didn’t slip off. The best part is she went 56….wierd.

I am more than well aware that I did not get faster in the 100 backstroke. Maybe I should have specified what I thought was funny about Stevo’s post. But yes, I have no right to laugh at Brad White getting beat by Stevo. Brad White is such a cool guy and we are similar in a lot of respects. NO disrespect to him even though I kind of made it sound that way.

I don’t think i was ripping brad white either. Brad was one guy i strived to beat because i knew how talented of a swimmer he was.

As for Sixbags predictions….you’re getting closer, keep trying. HAHA