Phillip Heyboer

Forums General National Championships Phillip Heyboer

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    • #11856
      Insufficient
      Member

      some of the responses in the thread concerning nationals potential caused me to investigate some things a little further.

      Ricky Bobby proposed heyboer has the potential for 3 A-cuts. This may surprise some of you, but if he were to reach these standards he would hold the Open MIAA record in each of those events. If that is the case I think Hope picked up a top 10 frosh nationally.

      Thoughts !?!?!

    • #29096
      N Dynamite
      Member

      No freshman made 3 A-cuts last year and only Robert Browm (USCGA) did in 2005. He would have to be one of the best recruits for the past two years (at least). Not that he’s not good, but I would be shocked to see 3 A-cuts from a freshman.

    • #29097
      DonCheadle
      Member

      he is awesome. No doubt.

      3 best events:

      200 IM
      500 Free
      200 Back

      AM I right about this? Reason being he cannot get an A cut in both the 200 IM and the 500. Maybe the 100 back?

      Anyhow it is great to have a guy that fast in the league.

    • #29098
      silentp
      Member

      I HIGHLY doubt he’ll get the 100 back, that’s a lot of time to drop in a 100, but you never know. Blohm was 51.0 coming in and didn’t get close, the 100 back is a really tough A cut… not that there are any easy ones.

    • #29099
      swim5599
      Member

      what are these kids best times? Didn’t Westby end up with three A cuts this past year, or was his 100 fly off just a smidge.

    • #29100
      Insufficient
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      3 best events:

      200 IM
      500 Free
      200 Back

      Those are probably his best three now, but Ricky Bobby suggested A cuts in 200 IM, 400 IM, and 200 Back.

      Is it possible? I say yes.

      Likely? I’m on the fence.

      The drops to make it in the 200 IM and 200 Back aren’t huge and since he is a distance swimmer there’s a part of me that wants to predict the 400 IM will be his BEST event.

      My prediction is 2 A cuts, likely in both IMs and just missing the A in the 200 Back.

    • #29101
      silentp
      Member

      From what i have heard he is a 1:53 or 52 Imer (52 mid is the A cut) and a 4:34 500 guy, a 1:52 or 53 200 backstroker (that’s a ways off the A), and have no idea on his 400 IM.

      He also has not dropped much time since he was a sophomore, so it’s hard to say. I’ll bet on 1 A cut, with 2 other solid times.

      Question is, who will end up better, he or the fonz? that’s a tough call, but Heyboer for sure has more events to pick from with the Fonz being better at his best event.

    • #29102
      Trousers Ron
      Member

      Hey there everybody! USS Michigan says Phil Heyboer has been 4:06 in the IM. Not sure what the means to the rest of you. Whether the kid gets 3 actual ‘A’ cuts or not…..he’ll be swimming a few times in March!

      As for the Fonz, or Alfonso Soriano if you’re a baseball fan (like myself)…..whoooooooa nelly. A 55 converted breaststroker is the best d3 has ever seen coming in, far ahead of the likes of Josh Boss or Aaron Cole in high school. He’s already the favorite to win the National Title.

    • #29103
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah if he goes 1:52 in the IM already he will probably score better at the end of the year in that then the 500, which is a loaded event for the upcoming year.

      He has to go 1:50.9 in the 200 back for the A cut, I would say he would have a chance

    • #29104
      swim5599
      Member

      What was BOss coming in like 56.9 or so

    • #29105
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      What was BOss coming in like 56.9 or so

      I don’t think he was even that fast, i believe it was a 57, but i am sure the Hope swimmers could let us know.

      Aaron Cole was a 59 from what i hear.

    • #29106
      The15mMark
      Member

      Where is this guy from? Transfer or a recruit?

    • #29107
      swimbadger
      Member

      I think he has a shot at three A cuts, but probably will not get three. He is super versatile, but will probably have the most success in the 200 back. I think that he may also swim the Mile and the 400 IM. He is a swimmer that gets better as the distance gets longer. What I have some questions about is his potential to drop. He will have some drops, it is well documented that almost all Hope swimmers do, but he is already pretty strong. He is also a little on the short side. It will be interesting to see what he can accomplish in the different training environment. I was very excited to see him pick a D3 school, especially knowing that his decision process also included Grand Valley.

    • #29108
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      What was BOss coming in like 56.9 or so

      I don’t think he was even that fast, i believe it was a 57, but i am sure the Hope swimmers could let us know.

      Aaron Cole was a 59 from what i hear.

      Boss: 56.66 and I think he went a 25.0 in the 200 medley

      Cole: Don’t believe the rumors, he was really fast coming in. Hell, he went a 30.7 (slightly faster than Kiki Vandewege at that age) in 50 M Freestyle when he was 10 (this can be verified, Rhyme…). If he was “only” a 59 in the 100 breast it was because he did not swim it at a taper meet.

    • #29109

      It’s great to see people like Heyboer picking the right school for the right reasons. Personally, I can’t figure out why so many high schoolers inflate their heads so they can say they’re going d1 and then have little to no impact once they get there. what’s the point?

      The real question about Heyboer is whether or not he will go in the first round of next year’s fantasy draft. Thoughts? I would have to say not at this point because of the little impact he will have on relays. Although the potential is there for him to be on 3 fantasy relays.

      Discuss.

    • #29110
      Low Tide
      Member

      55 converted? I thought it was initally a 57 low converted?

    • #29111
      maverick1
      Member

      he does keep on getting faster without swimming…..

      heyboer……3 a cuts?!?! no way jose. i think the boy will have 1 by the end of the season, which is damn good for a froshie

    • #29112
      silentp
      Member

      I think he’s a 1:05, so i converted a 1:05.50 from LCM to SCY and it is a 56.66. This assumes he has good turns, which if he does not, that would obviously be slower.

    • #29113
      Aflac
      Member

      Everybody uses different conversions whether they do it by hand mathematically or their favorite website. Cheadle says he’s been .21 under the senior nat cut which is 1:05.59. The same cut for the same meet in short course yards is 56.29 (however often times scy cuts are the most difficult to attain) so either way you look at it he’s been a converted 56 mid at the worst, in my opinion. Probably closer to 56 low. I will look forward to the 55 in March.

    • #29114
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I thought Boss was bout 56 high coming in. That is some kind of drop for one year 56.6- 54.6. Total stud, with outstanding feel for the water.

    • #29115

      I will second Cole being fast coming in from HS – I only know this because he held a bunch of the records on the club team I swam during the summers in college (STAR). I don’t remeber exact times unfortunately.

      in 1998, coach Lederhouse called up Hope’s coach to tell him (brag ๐Ÿ˜‰ about getting Jon Taylor (58.29).. lucky for him he held it off for later in the conversation… ’cause he learned about Boss first.. kind of took the air right out of his balloon. : p

    • #29116
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Yeah I thought Boss was bout 56 high coming in. That is some kind of drop for one year 56.6- 54.6. Total stud, with outstanding feel for the water.

      Boss dropped from 56.66 to 55.01 by December of his freshmen year. is that still the pool record at Wheaton?

    • #29117

      I’m pretty sure it was his sophomore year, because I was there to see it – at least I saw him go 55.00 that year in december, and it is still the pool record. I think he had the pool record from the year before at something like 55 mid. I believe that was the same meet when he went 2:00 which also still stands as the pool record. It was the fastest breastroke I had ever seen up to that point in my life (I didn’t get to see Anthony Robinson or Jeremy McDonell swim at Texas state unfortunately)

    • #29118
      silentp
      Member

      I will preduct that niether Heyboer or the Fonz will have the best finish at NCAAs next season.

    • #29119
      the bro
      Member

      silentp, if neither of those two, then who do you think will have the best finish at nats?

    • #29120
      silentp
      Member

      @the ‘bro wrote:

      silentp, if neither of those two, then who do you think will have the best finish at nats?

      Krone baby! But i could be way off, i really hope that both of these guys do well, i am just going to put my trust in the tried and true.

      I am also hoping to spark some conversation that isn’t just arguing about meaningless stuff like in the other topic.

    • #29121
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah that 55.00 and 2:00.07 from Boss at the 1999 Wheaton Invite was nothing short of amazing. I can remember talking to him in the warm down pool, and just being amazed at how humble he was. If I remember correctly he was not that pleased with the 2:00.07, well he made up for it several months later with 1:58.9

    • #29122
      Ricky Bobby
      Member

      No freshman made 3 A-cuts last year and only Robert Browm (USCGA) did in 2005. He would have to be one of the best recruits for the past two years (at least). Not that he’s not good, but I would be shocked to see 3 A-cuts from a freshman.

      Actually two freshman made 3 NCAA ‘A’ cuts.
      Eric Dunn (how can anyone forget his mile) in the 500, 400 IM and 1650.
      Nelson Westby also had ‘A’ cuts in the 200 IM, 100 Fly and 100 Breast.

      Freshman with two A cuts were:
      David Curtis: 200 and 500 Freestyles
      Norman Scott: 100 and 200 Flys

      Freshman with one A cut last year:
      Ted Marschall: 200 IM
      Ryan Volson: 200 Fly
      Paul Hughes: 100 Breast
      Harrison Brown: 200 Fly
      Chase Gross: 200 Free

      Based on this information from last year, it is safe to say that Heyboer is a top 10 recruit if he reaches even one ‘A’ cut. However, there are more freshman getting 3 A cuts than some had originally thought. The bottom line is, there are some damn good swimmers deciding to go d3.

    • #29123
      N Dynamite
      Member

      Sorry, I was assuming we were talking about qualifying for NCAA’s, not at NCAA’s. Here are the A cuts from the psych sheet:

      Dunn – 1650 (400 IM and 500 were B cuts)
      Westby – none (all were B cuts coming in)
      Curtis – 200 (500 barely made a B coming in, he was seeded 30th)
      Scott – 100 and 200 fly
      Marschall – 200 IM
      Gross – none (200 was a B that didn’t get selected, he was seeded 22nd)
      Hughes – 100 breast
      Volson – none
      Brown – 200 fly

      My only point was, for a guy to come in and make three A cuts to get to NCAA’s he would probably be the top recruit in the nation by far. Just making 1 before nationals would make him top 6. The reason I didn’t look at the results to begin with was because I felt there was a slight advantage swimming at Minnesota over Holland, :lol:, so the qualifying times would compare but the results wouldn’t.

      Regardless, I agree with you in that there is a ton of talent going D3 lately. Last year’s meet was incredibly fast. I’m a little scared of what the new cut times are going to look like, especially in a couple of the relays. 6 A cuts in the 200 FR, 5 A cuts in the 800 +1 .01 away (wasn’t at least one 6:51 left at home?). The 400 FR qualifying time was pretty sick also – 3:04.98 barely gets in.

    • #29124
      silentp
      Member

      For the Free relays, of the relays getting in:

      200 FR: There were 18 seniors (of the 40 swimmers) and only 1 relay without a senior (GAC).

      400 FR: There were 20 seniors (of the 44 swimmers) and 2 relays with no seniors on them, both seeded in the top 3 and Denison with 3 Freshmen.

      800 FR: Not listed on collegeswimming.com and d3swimming.com does not list swimmers.

    • #29125
      N Dynamite
      Member

      Based on the results the 800 is the scariest:
      12 of 44 athletes (top 11 finishers) were seniors
      5 of the top 11 relays had no seniors

    • #29126
      swim5599
      Member

      The depth in the meet this past year was really outstanding. However we did lose a ton of talent. Slavik, Cunningham, Triebe, Gyorfi, Schmitt, Duda and the list goes on. I may have mentioned this before but I think we will see a huge year out of Westby this upcoming year, he is now in my opinion the most versatile swimmer at the D 3 level.

    • #29127

      Westby had an incredible season but I think you have to put Lowell Byers right there with him, (I’d actually put him above – except that Lowell is a year older). He has the ability to final in the 50-100-200 free, 100 back, and has split 21.8 50 fly, 49 low 100 fly. Not to shabby.. I’m sure we are missing some other versatile guy… maybe Jay Carpenter, but since he doesn’t have relays, its hard to tell.

    • #29128
      swim5599
      Member

      I think Lowell is great do not get me wrong. He was dynamic in all five of those relays, but they are still just that relay splits, so this will probably be the year that we see him make serious noise in the individuals. I however would like to mention that Westby probably also has the ability to place in many other events as well. I am sure he has been 1:42 low in the 200 free as well as 46 low in the 100. Not taking anything away from Lowell and the meet that he had, I just think Westby was more impressive.

    • #29129
      Vic
      Member

      This is turning into a national topic so I moved it here.

      -Vic

    • #29130
      The Treat
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I think Lowell is great do not get me wrong. He was dynamic in all five of those relays, but they are still just that relay splits, so this will probably be the year that we see him make serious noise in the individuals. I however would like to mention that Westby probably also has the ability to place in many other events as well. I am sure he has been 1:42 low in the 200 free as well as 46 low in the 100. Not taking anything away from Lowell and the meet that he had, I just think Westby was more impressive.

      agreed, westby has a pretty good chance to win all of his events next year.

      byers is going to have a much tougher time winning an event next year. he’s got courage in the 50 and 100, westby and rousseau in the 100 fly if he swims that. i have no idea if he’d swim the 200, but he’s got 6 people returning in the finals. 5 are very strong candidates in ginder, peterson, curtis, spinelli, and guerard (2 are teammates). i would imagine he’d go with the butterfly as his third event. that is if he swims a 3rd event. 5 relays aren’t a bad choice either. that makes for an awful nice day two. two 50’s and one 200.

    • #29131
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah even with Losing Slavik and Triebe that 200 free is still loaded for next year. Peterson is probably getting tired of being out touched in his races, so I would think he might be the fav in this race, but Ginder is pretty tough

    • #29132
      silentp
      Member

      I don’t see Westby winning all of his events. Despite a great shot in his first 2 (depending on freshmen), his last one will be tough. One of the 5 best D3 Swimmers in History failed at his attempt, albeit against a far more difficult foe than Westby would face next year.

    • #29133
      swim5599
      Member

      were you talking about Aaron Cole? He ran into a brick wall that would be named Josh Boss, and that race was really close. Westby probably has 55 high in him in the breaststroke and that might be good enough to win

    • #29134
      The Treat
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Yeah even with Losing Slavik and Triebe that 200 free is still loaded for next year. Peterson is probably getting tired of being out touched in his races, so I would think he might be the fav in this race, but Ginder is pretty tough

      ginder has been touched out as well (2 years in a row). both have to be considered favorites, but ginder is my pick to click (he did go 1:38.7 in the 800 FR).

    • #29135

      I agree about Lowell – his events are loaded – Courage is pretty much a no brainer pick for the 50 and 100. Lowell’s best shot at a win is the 100 back, as he probably close be the fastest time returning (50.4) from his freshman year, and it appears that he has improved in it, if you compare his untapered times from Freshman and Sophomore years.

      I wish I could see Westby swim.

    • #29136
      The Treat
      Member

      @RhymeAndReason wrote:

      I agree about Lowell – his events are loaded – Courage is pretty much a no brainer pick for the 50 and 100. Lowell’s best shot at a win is the 100 back, as he probably close be the fastest time returning (50.4) from his freshman year, and it appears that he has improved in it, if you compare his untapered times from Freshman and Sophomore years.

      I wish I could see Westby swim.

      i dont know about courage being a lock for the 50. burch, lowell byers, trunk, barrett roberts… the 50 is never a sure race for anyone. you need to put it all together.

    • #29137
      silentp
      Member

      @The Treat wrote:

      @RhymeAndReason wrote:

      I agree about Lowell – his events are loaded – Courage is pretty much a no brainer pick for the 50 and 100. Lowell’s best shot at a win is the 100 back, as he probably close be the fastest time returning (50.4) from his freshman year, and it appears that he has improved in it, if you compare his untapered times from Freshman and Sophomore years.

      I wish I could see Westby swim.

      i dont know about courage being a lock for the 50. burch, lowell byers, trunk, barrett roberts… the 50 is never a sure race for anyone. you need to put it all together.

      Exactly, plus there could be a freshman out there like there was 2 years ago that could come in and win it. Treat’s right, never a sure thing.

    • #29138
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Anyone know if Cox will swim again?

    • #29139

      The 50 is not a sure thing – I just meant that Courage has to be the favorite, simply based on history – its not going out on a limb to pick him as the favorite.

    • #29140
      Chris Knight
      Member

      Logically, the favorite should be the returning swimmer who finished highest in each event. Of course, since there were only 4 individual events this year where the top upperclassman from ’05 won, maybe logic isn’t the best way to predict winners .

    • #29141
      swim5599
      Member

      ANyone out there think that Courage could probably go about 44.2 or so this upcoming year. If he could just improve his reaction time off the blocks he could have been maybe 2 tenths faster this past year. That guys moves an insane amount of water.

      Peterson and Ginder what a battle in that 200

    • #29142

      @swim5599 wrote:

      ANyone out there think that Courage could probably go about 44.2 or so this upcoming year.

      At least. For what it’s worth, rumor has it he’s after Jim Born’s record; and he does seem to have a way of, whenever he wants to do something, going ahead and doing it. Be that as it may, if you take away the slow start and the cold/sore throat he had at nationals and you add in another year of experience…..I don’t think it would be a big surprise if he was under 44 by March. Wowing, yes. Highly impressive, yes. Shocking, not so much.

    • #29143
      The Treat
      Member

      @OutsideSmoker27 wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      ANyone out there think that Courage could probably go about 44.2 or so this upcoming year.

      At least. For what it’s worth, rumor has it he’s after Jim Born’s record; and he does seem to have a way of, whenever he wants to do something, going ahead and doing it. Be that as it may, if you take away the slow start and the cold/sore throat he had at nationals and you add in another year of experience…..I don’t think it would be a big surprise if he was under 44 by March. Wowing, yes. Highly impressive, yes. Shocking, not so much.

      He can be faster, but i dont think he’ll get born’s record this year. thats a pretty big jump from 44.5 to 43.6.

    • #29144
      Chris Knight
      Member

      I would not be surprised at all if he goes that time before he graduates. He is perfect for the 100. Darn good at the 50 and 200, but in the four-lapper he was just amazing to watch.

    • #29145

      @The Treat wrote:

      He can be faster, but i dont think he’ll get born’s record this year. thats a pretty big jump from 44.5 to 43.6.

      I agree. My only point is, if he puts up some form of 43.xx by season’s end, I don’t think it should be a gigantic surprise. The chances of him breaking the record this year, those are a bit more remote…although I hesitate to say “no chance at all.”

    • #29146
      silentp
      Member

      @OutsideSmoker27 wrote:

      if you take away the slow start and the cold/sore throat he had at nationals

      @The Treat wrote:

      He can be faster, but i dont think he’ll get born’s record this year. thats a pretty big jump from 44.5 to 43.6.

      Remember Treat, the guy had a cold/sore throat, that’s almost a full second difference right there! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Honestly, I’d be VERY VERY surprised to see him go under 44, even by the time he graduates.

    • #29147
      swim5599
      Member

      No I do not think he is going 43 plus either, but maybe 44.2. His Starts are just a little too slow, not saying he can’t improve them, but if you want to go 43.6 you better get your butt off the block quickly.

    • #29148
      gcc62
      Member

      I’m not going to bold enough to predict what he’ll go – as soon as I do someone will use it to motivate themselves to beat him or I will eventually be ridiculed if he doesn’t reach the time I post. However, while Born’s record is pretty far away, keep in mind – he dropped from 45.56 his freshman year to 44.51 his sophomore year. For those of you who have seen him swim you know it’s pure power, not turnover, so the stronger he gets the faster he should be.

      My only hope is that at least one year we can show up at the NCAA Championships and he will bring his fastskin to the pool each session. 2005 we had to go back to the hotel to get it so he could have it for the 200. 2006 he had to wear Haring’s for the final in the 100 because he didn’t realize he forgot it until the consols of the 200 back. By the way, Haring wore a 30, Courage a 34. Maybe next year we should try squeezing him into a 28 for the extra second.

    • #29149
      Chris Knight
      Member

      I think every team must have somebody like that.

      A 34 would fit me about as snugly as pajama pants.

    • #29150
      swim5599
      Member

      Pretty significant drop from 45.5 to 44.5. Like I said I would think 44.2 would be in range, which means he is putting up a time pretty similar to what Marc Courtney Brooks went, and that is not bad company at all.

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