PAC’s 2008

Having seen both the Westminster and Grove City rosters, I have no idea.

Westminster’s loss of 237 individual points is exceeded only by Grove City losing 304, so that doesn’t exactly help GC.

Grove City’s freshmen are of high quantity and variable quality. Westminster’s incoming class is neither amazing nor large, so that doesn’t exactly help them.

There should be a noticeable shift in which swimmers score big overall, but I have no idea who that will help or hurt more.

As far as events go, I think these ones at least are, to mix metaphors, wide open for grabs:
100 backstroke
200 backstroke
200 free
200 IM

As a parent whose kid is no longer involved, I plan on getting most, if not all, of my info on the conference from this site, so I’ll be looking forward to all of your comments, updates, info, etc. I would like to thank everybody who posts here, especially Outside Smoker, Weedwacker, and gcc swimmer for everything that I have learned (although, as my name suggests, there is so much more knowledge to acquire!). I only wish that I had heard about this site a couple of years ago; you all have taught me so much. Thanks again, and good luck to all of the swimmers and coaches.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Believe me there are many who post on this forum (including other conferences), and know a great deal more about swimming than I do. But I have also learned much about the ins and outs of swimming competition since I joined the forum back in Jan. 06. It has been interesting to say the least. Anyway I’ll continue to make my astute 😉 observations for a couple more years.

GO PAC AND D3 SWIMMING!!! BEST TO YOU FOR THE UPCOMING SEASON!!!

it looks to me that grove city lost alot of younger guys also. Especially both of there top distance swimmers. This will have a big effect on there scoring at pac’s to go along with all the seniors that graduated also…..Just curious if anyone had anythoughts about this

It’s hard to predict how the overall meet scores will change based solely on lost RAG points (relegation, attrition, and graduation points, yes I made that term up). There are too many other things in play: 1) new points from freshmen and from upperclassmen who swam exhibition the year before, 2) returning swimmers scoring more (or fewer) points than they did the year before, 3) changes in relay wins or relay DQs (not to mention the “intangibles” of the meet itself: who’s swimming well, who’s in top health, who’s got the momentum on their side at any given point).

With the attrition of Seidelson (WC) and Cressman (GCC), the RAG points for the two teams are 276 and 364 respectively. Advantage of 88 points to the Titans there. Grove City has a big advantage in new guys (88 points’ worth? it’s not inconceivable), and their returners have consistently improved more than Westminster’s from year to year. As for relays, I suspect the totals will stay the same as the last two years.

I originally thought Cressman’s departure would hand the meet to Westminster. I don’t think that anymore. The balance may have tipped a little more toward Westminster, but right now both teams have 0 points, and I’m pretty much back to my original opinion: I have no idea who’s going to win.

Whats up with Caleb not being on the roster?

@WCSwmFan wrote:

Whats up with Caleb not being on the roster?

This: https://d3swimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3385

For the first time since WC joined the conference I think it is safe to say them PACs will be, at this point in the season, completely wide open, for all the talk over the past 5 years I think Westminster had the edge going in, except for 2004 when GCC clearly had the edge sheerly on a numbers stand point, but this year it is truly hard to tell, especially with Caleb sitting this year out, if he were still in I would have said GCC this year going away, now I’m not so sure, this should be a fun and exciting season to watch unfold

@WCSwmFan wrote:

For the first time since WC joined the conference I think it is safe to say them PACs will be, at this point in the season, completely wide open, for all the talk over the past 5 years I think Westminster had the edge going in, except for 2004 when GCC clearly had the edge sheerly on a numbers stand point, but this year it is truly hard to tell, especially with Caleb sitting this year out, if he were still in I would have said GCC this year going away, now I’m not so sure, this should be a fun and exciting season to watch unfold

I agree that this year is too early (and maybe too close) to call. And yes, it will be very exciting to watch. But then again, I also thought the last two years were too (too close to call and exciting to watch).

@weedwacker2000 wrote:

with Werner not swimming and WC’s backstroke trio graduated, the backstroke events for the conference meet should really open up.

Maybe I’m out on a limb here, but I think Westminster’s backstroke status has gone from utter dominance to second-best. As a taste of what kind of vacuum they and Werner have left to be filled, note the top three returners from last year:

100 back
Weir, Behrend (4th)
Hall, Behrend (6th)
Albertson, GC (8th)

200 back
Yarger, West (4th)
Albertson, GC (5th)
Weir, Behrend (6th)

I believe Grove City has a pair of solid backstrokers among their freshmen (I don’t foresee an AMCC champion winning either of these events), and I think they’ll actually get more points out of these events than Westminster does. I don’t think that’s happened…..maybe ever.

Of course, in the end, it has only a smidgen to do with whether they get more points out of the meet than Westminster does.

Has Westminster lost the backstroke at PACs since they joined, Jim Mann then 4 years of Pat Smith, didn’t he win the 100 and 200 all four years?

Yeah, the Titans are “only” 9-for-10 at winning back events since they joined the conference. If you go by points scored, they’re 10-for-10. And it’s hardly ever been close.

2003
100: West 38, GC 31
200: West 44, GC 19

2004
100: West 50, GC 28
200: West 64, GC 30

2005
100: West 73, GC 27 (irony, this was the one Joel Boerckel won)
200: West 65, GC 30

2006
100: West 62, GC 29
200: West 53, GC 40

2007
100: West 53, GC 23
200: West 68, GC 30

As decent as Devin Gannon is, conference-wise, I don’t think he’ll be enough to keep the perfect streak going.