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    • #12627
      DonCheadle
      Member

      MIAA winning times:

      200 Free Relay 1:23.50
      400 Free Relay 3:05.00
      800 Free Relay 6:53.00

      2nd Place Times:
      200 Medley Relay 1:34.00
      400 Medley Relay 3:26.00

      Who wins the 200 IM?

      How many individual point scorers at Nats (last year there were 6).

      Who has the fastest 100 free time for Hope next year: Kurti, Neils, Rose, VanderBroek or Vogelzang (if a Hope guy wants to come up with a Kzoo question instead of answering this one, have at it). I’ll go with Rose 46.25

    • #38446
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      200 Free Relay 1:23.50

      Under

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      400 Free Relay 3:05.00

      Under

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      800 Free Relay 6:53.00

      Under, but barely

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      200 Medley Relay 1:34.00

      Over

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      400 Medley Relay 3:26.00

      Over, but barely

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Who wins the 200 IM?

      Bobby “Homewrecker” Dekker

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      How many individual point scorers at Nats (last year there were 6).

      7

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Who has the fastest 100 free time for Hope next year: Kurti, Neils, Rose, VanderBroek or Vogelzang (if a Hope guy wants to come up with a Kzoo question instead of answering this one, have at it). I’ll go with Rose 46.25

      This order,
      CVB, Rose, RVZ, Nelis

      My own added Over/Unders:

      Freshmen Victories at MIAAs: .5
      Freshmen At Nats (from the MIAA): 1.5
      National Titles for the MIAA: .5
      MIAA Open Records: 5.5
      Number of Seconds Ellis wins the 100 back by: 2.0

    • #38447
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      Personally, I believe, this years league meet is not going to be much different from last years. The main differences will be depending on who improves from last year. Who will be the next break out swimmer from the MIAA? Who will come out of nowhere to shock everyone? Will anyone from the guys class of ’11 make an effect on the MIAA?

      These are the questions I really want to know.

    • #38448
      silentp
      Member

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      Personally, I believe, this years league meet is not going to be much different from last years. The main differences will be depending on who improves from last year. Who will be the next break out swimmer from the MIAA? Who will come out of nowhere to shock everyone? Will anyone from the guys class of ’11 make an effect on the MIAA?

      So Hope falls short, again, of getting a medley relay in while losing the title to Olivet? Not the outlook I expected from a Hope swimmer.

      There are at least 5 exciting recruits coming into the MIAA (3 for Olivet, 2 for K) and everything will be the same?

    • #38449
      quacker
      Member

      P – Five recruits? Do tell.

    • #38450
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      Well if you read what I said, actually I was saying the only way things are going to change is if people already on the teams have big or even decent improvements that change the meet. So that doesnt mean Hope is losing again. What it means is that if someone from Hopes team doesnt have a good drop from last year they are going to have a hard time winning. If someone has a breakout year there is a good chance of winning and getting a medley into nats.

      And about Olivets froshys. I dont think theyre going to make much of a difference less then they are just going to fill in for people who graduated. Not saying they wont do well but just more of a replacement then a difference.

      And from what I hear is that Dmitruk is gone (not sure if its true) but kzoos frosh freestylers are solid for sure but at least one of them is more like a replacement for him. But I dont think theyre going to make a big impact just becuase of how hard the freestyle is to score anyway.

      Is that post a little more contro for you?

    • #38451

      Over 1:34 for the 200 medley?

      Well that seems a little ridiculous considering Kalamazoo was 1:32 last year and didn’t graduate anyone… I’m not sure I understand your thought process on this one pfau. remember greiner, not dmitruk, was the freestyler for that relay, and with paul, fonsy, bobs and g-range i don’t see why you would expect them to slow down over a second.

    • #38452
      iamdonovan
      Member

      That’s 1:34.00 for the second place time, Nehemiah. Maybe it’s time you went back to Temple and took one of those nice reading courses? 😀

    • #38453
      silentp
      Member

      @quacker wrote:

      P – Five recruits? Do tell.

      I am not sure how much I can say, but here’s the jist:

      Olivet got 3 very solid swimmers who will all score in multiple events based on incoming times AND will put their medley relay right there for the 200 MR cut again. They also now have 3 very good legs for the 200 FR (and pretty good for the 400 FR too), so if they get a 4th guy to step up Hope-style, they could make some noise in those relays as well.

      K brings in 2 guys who are already very solid but their improvements over the past few years have been extremely promising. Both have a chance to make the medley relays much stronger while looking to score individually in 2-3 events each, in events that aren’t so easy to score in right now. They do have a couple other guys who come in with scoring times, but probably aren’t as interesting from an MIAA community standpoint.

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      Well if you read what I said, actually I was saying the only way things are going to change is if people already on the teams have big or even decent improvements that change the meet. So that doesnt mean Hope is losing again. What it means is that if someone from Hopes team doesnt have a good drop from last year they are going to have a hard time winning. If someone has a breakout year there is a good chance of winning and getting a medley into nats.

      And about Olivets froshys. I dont think theyre going to make much of a difference less then they are just going to fill in for people who graduated. Not saying they wont do well but just more of a replacement then a difference.

      And from what I hear is that Dmitruk is gone (not sure if its true) but kzoos frosh freestylers are solid for sure but at least one of them is more like a replacement for him. But I dont think theyre going to make a big impact just becuase of how hard the freestyle is to score anyway.

      Is that post a little more contro for you?

      So if Olivet got replacements and Hope did not, how exactly will the MIAA meet be close, even with improvements from the returning swimmers?

      I love when 2 guys coming in faster than the guy leaving, are just “replacements”.

    • #38454
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      And from what I hear is that Dmitruk is gone (not sure if its true)

      Anyone know if this is true.

      Either way Kzoo has someone scoring in the top tier in the 100 next year (IE under 47.5, who knows what place it will be). Which is only to say that they are only making progress towards, not catching up to, the other schools.

      I think Kzoo has the best diver coming in, because Oliet lost their diver.

    • #38455
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      And from what I hear is that Dmitruk is gone (not sure if its true)

      Anyone know if this is true.

      Yes, he will be attending Columbia University (yes, the Ivy League one in NY) to pursue a major in Music Production, or something along those lines.

    • #38456
      TheDon
      Member

      Yes, Ben is gone. He is quite a talented musician and has decided to pursue that career possibility at a school that does not have swimming. I thought Columbia College Chicago but that may be old data.

    • #38457
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I have to go over 1:34 for second as well. I do not think that second place will be that fast in that event. Maybe more like something in the 1:34.5 range.

    • #38458
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Yeah I have to go over 1:34 for second as well. I do not think that second place will be that fast in that event. Maybe more like something in the 1:34.5 range.

      At first I thought this was too slow since Olivet only lost 1 and was under it last year, Hope was close to it and lost no one, but it might not be far off. Olivet lost the fastest split on that relay and Hope, while not losing anyone, didn’t gain anyone for it either. If we say the 1:34.5 range is 1:34.3 and above, then i might agree.

    • #38459
      stewie
      Member

      Pfau,
      Are you including Heyboer in the 200 IM or are you thinking he will swim the something else? Also, how can Hope win the MIAA without much of a class and OC picking up solid fresh? A few factors to consider…

      -Yury swimming or not? (this could be deciding factor)
      -Fetters, Aguirre, Weiss gone
      -Stone is around a 12 point swing I think
      -CVB was ranked around 1st or 2nd in his events and went 7, 2, 8…a little bit of bad luck was in there but you can bet he will final in all his events this year
      -What Hope swimmers swim what? Hope will place swimmers in events to score not for individual cuts, etc.

      In saying this, I don’t think it is fair to say who is the favorite without official rosters. People quit, transfer, etc. When a meet comes down to 7 pts like last year you need to know all the players involved. And let’s all face it if Dan Gardner had swam all season last year Hope would have hoisted the MIAA trophy over their heads…you never know what could happen.

    • #38460
      silentp
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      Pfau,
      Are you including Heyboer in the 200 IM or are you thinking he will swim the something else?

      Doesn’t matter if he’s in it or not for my prediction, but i don’t think he will be.

      @stewie wrote:

      Also, how can Hope win the MIAA without much of a class and OC picking up solid fresh? A few factors to consider…

      -Yury swimming or not? (this could be deciding factor)

      I don’t think this has been finalized, but we can say no for argument’s sake.

      @stewie wrote:

      -Fetters, Aguirre, Weiss gone

      Bravo, Cook, Hoesch, Holtman, Holton, Waterstone gone (if i missed anyone, it was not on purpose)

      @stewie wrote:

      -Stone is around a 12 point swing I think

      Yes, but doesn’t he swim the same events that Hope is already very strong in? More depth never hurt, but he will knock down a few Hope guys also.

      @stewie wrote:

      -CVB was ranked around 1st or 2nd in his events and went 7, 2, 8…a little bit of bad luck was in there but you can bet he will final in all his events this year

      He could… or he could do worse as all of those events added strong freshmen from across the league and return almost all of their finalists.

      @stewie wrote:

      -What Hope swimmers swim what? Hope will place swimmers in events to score not for individual cuts, etc.

      Most will be in the 50… only kidding, but i really wouldn’t expect people to be strategically placed in events.

      @stewie wrote:

      In saying this, I don’t think it is fair to say who is the favorite without official rosters. People quit, transfer, etc. When a meet comes down to 7 pts like last year you need to know all the players involved. And let’s all face it if Dan Gardner had swam all season last year Hope would have hoisted the MIAA trophy over their heads…you never know what could happen.

      It should be an exciting championship, no doubt about it. The only thing we know is who will score the most in March…

    • #38461
      Barack
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      It should be an exciting championship, no doubt about it. The only thing we know is who will score the most in March…

      Yup…Kenyon College 🙄

    • #38462
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      In saying this, I don’t think it is fair to say who is the favorite without official rosters.

      We get a post like ths every year. Like somehow posting predictions matters! I say predict away!

      If Krone wins MIAA MVP again remind me to take a big crap in the pool.

    • #38463
      stiles
      Member

      To Pfau’s orignal post, I’d say all unders. Hope only has to replace Holton on those relays and they alreayd have Kurti…add to this the fact that everyone could get faster. That takes care of those freestyle times.

      For the medley’s, Hope returns their entire relays. That shoudl get under along with the OC being able to bang down the doors of those as well.

      I’d like to make a comparison. The current Kzoo team has huge similarites to the Hope teams around 1999 to 2002. No team in the league is better suited for a dual meet match up. The guarantee themselves a number of wins in every meet (i.e. medley, breast, backs). We all know how that works in college scoring. Add to that, the way that their team falls off quickly after the top 3-6 guys. Look:

      Hope 2001-2002:
      Boss
      DeHaan
      Slagh

      Kzoo 2006-2007:
      Ellis
      Espinonsa
      Dekker

      The biggest difference comes when you compare the leagues. Hope had a group of gusy comprised of Hamstra, Vroginedewey, Kobes, Bouwens, and Heydlauff. This helped them compete in the current league. Just like K’s Griener, Booms, Contreras et al. do. Then after that next tier of guys there is very little and huge points are lost tot he teams that are deep throu upper consols and diving. Losing Dmitruk will hurt K, but from wht I dunerstand of their recurits they will have some help.

    • #38464
      swim5599
      Member

      Krone needs to learn how to swim his races better. That guy would be amazing if he was not sitting at 1:44 flat at the 200 in his 500’s

    • #38465
      stewie
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      Bravo, Cook, Hoesch, Holtman, Holton, Waterstone gone (if i missed anyone, it was not on purpose)

      @stewie wrote:

      -Stone is around a 12 point swing I think

      Yes, but doesn’t he swim the same events that Hope is already very strong in? More depth never hurt, but he will knock down a few Hope guys also.

      @stewie wrote:

      -CVB was ranked around 1st or 2nd in his events and went 7, 2, 8…a little bit of bad luck was in there but you can bet he will final in all his events this year

      He could… or he could do worse as all of those events added strong freshmen from across the league and return almost all of their finalists.

      First, I figured that you would bring up what Hope lost last yr. Yes, there are some big names but nothing Hope cannot replace. Remember Hope swam a lot of fast swimmers exhibition last year including 1:02 and 1:03 breastrokers. Holton is easily replaceable considering the amount of Hope swimmers who swim his events. Also, Bravo only made it back in one event last yr and he took 6th. Waterstone and Hoesch are the only two three event swimmers Hope lost.

      Olivet lost what got them second in the 2 med last yr…Fetters with a 22.5. With most likely Koji being on the fly leg and Nelis splitting 49 at Nats, I think that Hope has a great chance to beat OC in that relay now.

      Second, who says Stone will swim the same events as last season. Also, look for him to swim faster than last season.

      Third, CVB…a little bit of a knock on him Pfau. Considering he led off the 4 fr relay in 46.4, I think he’ll place higher in the 100 fr this yr…assuming there are not technical difficulties again. Also, his 1:42.1 at Nats puts him even closer to Krone.

    • #38466
      maverick1
      Member

      maybe these were already stated and i forgot them, but what were these technical difficulties that cvb had issues with at miaas? and did they have an effect on both the 50 and the 100 free?

      i think hope will have much more trouble replacing holton than has been stated by the others.

      and since when is 1:02 or 1:03 fast in the 100 breast???? that doesn’t even make the illinois high school state meet

    • #38467
      DonCheadle
      Member

      The reason Olivet will win leagues is because they have diving. Unless Hope brings in 3 decent divers, they will once again be faced with a 100 point difference.

      Also, historically Hope has not swam for points and instead just put guys in their best events. Maybe this has changed recently?

    • #38468
      silentp
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      First, I figured that you would bring up what Hope lost last yr. Yes, there are some big names but nothing Hope cannot replace. Remember Hope swam a lot of fast swimmers exhibition last year including 1:02 and 1:03 breastrokers. Holton is easily replaceable considering the amount of Hope swimmers who swim his events. Also, Bravo only made it back in one event last yr and he took 6th. Waterstone and Hoesch are the only two three event swimmers Hope lost.

      They can replace them, but with the incoming class, they didn’t and that’s what matters.

      @stewie wrote:

      Olivet lost what got them second in the 2 med last yr…Fetters with a 22.5. With most likely Koji being on the fly leg and Nelis splitting 49 at Nats, I think that Hope has a great chance to beat OC in that relay now. .

      I doubt Koji will be on it for fly, but that relay could have up to 3 freshmen on it who could all be faster than the guys who swam on it last year… plus what got them second (and therefore a place above Hope)was the breastroke. If Meisner can split fast and their freshmen develop, we could see a race for 2nd in the 400 also.

      @stewie wrote:

      Second, who says Stone will swim the same events as last season. Also, look for him to swim faster than last season.

      The event he could swim to help for points would be the 1650, but from what i have seen over the past couple years has not shown him to be a team player.

      @stewie wrote:

      Third, CVB…a little bit of a knock on him Pfau. Considering he led off the 4 fr relay in 46.4, I think he’ll place higher in the 100 fr this yr…assuming there are not technical difficulties again. Also, his 1:42.1 at Nats puts him even closer to Krone.

      Not a knock on him at all, just merely stating facts without letting my personal feelings get in the way. He led off in 46.4, great, let’s have a parade, crowley led off for K in 46.0 a few years back but never did it on a non-relay. Also, I’m not sure how even closer to Krone in the 200 makes a difference for points, pretty sure whether you lose by .01 or 10, it’s still the same number of points.

    • #38469
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      I personally love how Pfau is getting crankier as he gets older.

      Like a fine wine… left uncorked.

    • #38470
      stewie
      Member

      Maverick: and since when is 1:02 or 1:03 fast in the 100 breast???? that doesn’t even make the illinois high school state meet

      Hey Mav, in case you haven’t noticed the MIAA sucks at breastroke, so if those guys can go 1:01 and 1:02 this yr they will score. It’s all relative. I don’t care what people in Illinois can go.

    • #38471
      maverick1
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      Remember Hope swam a lot of fast swimmers exhibition last year including 1:02 and 1:03 breastrokers

      even though they might score at miaas, i still think you’ll be hard pressed to find any d3 program that considers those times fast unless they were for lcm (even gustavus would consider those mediocre, for you miac fans out there)

      stewie, in order to test your swimming judgement and to put all of your opinions in question, do you consider 50.50 in the 100 free fast (scy)?

    • #38472
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      Mav thats just stupid. When he said fast he obviously was speaking about our league. After the top 5 or 6 this year it is basically open for grabs from spots 7-12. A 101 or 102 low could easily get 7th even if its 3 or 4 seconds slower than whomever got 6th. So the point is, what you say is a mediocre at best for breaststroke, Hope says two 7th places. Im pretty sure a 50.50 has not scored at leagues in the past decade and I know a 102 has scored every league meet in the past decade.

    • #38473
      maverick1
      Member

      ok, i don’t think you guys are using your reading comprehension skills very well, maybe you’ve been hanging out with maurice clarett and kevin garnett, or maybe the admissions standards for hope college are just really low right now…….all i was saying is this

      1:02-1:03 = fast

      do you walk down the street and say to yourself when you pass by someone that’s 5’9, “man that guy is tall.”

    • #38474
      stewie
      Member

      pathetic Mav, just pathetic.

    • #38475
      Derek
      Member

      I’ll come out and say that 1:01-1:02 is slow. I don’t care if it scores, it’s still slow. When I won the 400 IM in 4:10, it was slow. It doesn’t matter where it scores at MIAAs, a slow swim is a slow swim. By my estimation, a d3 school should be looking at a national qualifying swim as a fast swim and a non-national level swim as a mediocre or slow swim. But maybe that’s just me.

    • #38476
      quacker
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      ok, i don’t think you guys are using your reading comprehension skills very well, maybe you’ve been hanging out with maurice clarett and kevin garnett, or maybe the admissions standards for hope college are just really low right now…….all i was saying is this

      that’s impossible. kg wouldn’t hang out with midwestern college kids, he’s got to focus on his basketball career out in boston. and i’m pretty sure that maurice clarett is locked up so he can’t hang out.

      @maverick wrote:

      1:02-1:03 = fast

      did you mean 1:02-1:03 ≠ fast? even if you did, please consider L2’s note that it’s relative to the miaa. i was so curious about this though that i looked it up on this wonderful website and last year a 1:02-mid would make it back to the consolation final in the MIAA, PAC, SCAC, NCAC, NWC, SCIAC, and MIAC. it would have finaled in the CCIW. there’s a “bonus final” in the UAA and a “preconsolation final” in the NESCAC that a 1:02-mid could find a home but i’m not sure those even score points. Admittedly some of these conferences swim top 16 instead of top 12, but those conferences typically have more than 6 men’s teams.

      just give the college kids a break and realize that yes, although a 1:02-mid as a freshman is not blazing fast when compared to the times from people such as yourself, a time such as that coming off the exhibition team can be welcomed as fast in such a context as d3 miaa swimming.

      re your miac comment: after comparing 2007 prelims, a guy like matt smith, an outstanding gentleman and scholar, would have been the number two breaststroker at gustavus heading into consolation finals.

      @maverick wrote:

      do you walk down the street and say to yourself when you pass by someone that’s 5’9, “man that guy is tall.”

      no. that’s ridiculous.

    • #38477
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      It was a question first if I can get that out of his post the standards must really suck right now. All he said was that he doesn’t consider 1:02-1:03 to be fast. It didn’t matter the conference, all the post said was that those are slow times.

    • #38478
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      Meters?

    • #38479
      maverick1
      Member

      quacker got me there, safari apparently won’t let my use html code when posting and will not allow me to use some figures like that does not equal sign…….stupid mac safari

    • #38480
      stiles
      Member

      I don’t think anyone from Hope is arguing that 1:02 or 1:03 is really fast. stewie is arguing points and Mav is arguing time, it’s stupid. stewie’s point is no matter how ‘not fast’ they are, they are still in a great position to pick up some solid points. Mav just says those guys suck….ya know what, even if they did suck, they’re still outscoring the bottom feeders at K and that is a huge difference as to why K isn’t in the conversation for 1st.

    • #38481
      silentp
      Member

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      So the point is, what you say is a mediocre at best for breaststroke, Hope says two 7th places.

      Actually, considering what i know about incoming swimmers, Hope right now would be lined up for 9th and 10th while the school non-hope people are saying will win, will grab those 7th and 8th place spots (just based on rank right now).

      Although, i am curious how you are predicting a tie for 7th, never seen anyone predict that, it’s bold, i like it!

      According to usa-swimming.org’s IMX & Power Point Calculator, I have the following information:

      For a 20 yr old male, a 1:02.50 BR is worth 605 points, a 55.00 backstroke is worth 609 points, a 54.25 100 fly is worth 600 points, a 49.50 100 free is worth 606 points and a 2:00.50 200 IM is worth 611 points.
      To me, the free seems the most off of those, but perhaps a 1:02 breast is better than i thought. Fast might not be the best term, but how about solid? or sufficient? or doesn’t suck?

    • #38482
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Matt Smith will score 6-10 points this year. Having that be your 18th guy is pretty good.

    • #38483
      quacker
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      Fast might not be the best term, but how about solid? or sufficient? or doesn’t suck?

      I like those a lot better.

    • #38484
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      “Good for Hope”?

    • #38485
      swim5599
      Member

      I am going to come out and say that 1:02 breaststroke is way faster then a 50.5 100 freestyle, I agree that it is not that fast but it is still faster then the freestyle swim.

    • #38486
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I am going to come out and say that 1:02 breaststroke is way faster then a 50.5 100 freestyle, I agree that it is not that fast but it is still faster then the freestyle swim.

      49.5 was the power ratings equivalent, not 50.5. How would you compare those? I think that it depends on how old you are. 49.5 is a better swim for a high schooler but not in college (freestylers drop more time in college than anyone else).

    • #38487
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I guess I was thinking that was college.

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