Ole-Gustie Duel

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    • #12003
      SeekUp
      Member

      It’s four weeks away from the big duel meet and these are the questions on everyone’s mind:

      How will the 16 event line up affect the meet?
      Will Westby’s shoulder injury damage Olaf’s chance to prevail?
      Does Gac have a strong freshman class?
      Are Ole women still favorites after the loss of a dominant senior class?
      Will all 150+ Gusties fit on the Olaf pool deck?

      My prediction: Olaf woman have large victory and Ole men win by a small margin. Don’t underestimate Ole men this year, they are coming back with vengeance.

    • #30991
      sharkboy
      Member

      The 16 event lineup favors Olaf because it adds the 100 breast and 100 fly for Westby to dominate, assuming he recovers from his injuries. Olaf is pretty strong in the backstroke too.

      As far as relays, Olaf and GAC will each win one, but GAC might very well 1-2 the 400 fr again, whereas Olaf will be hard pressed to 1-2 the medley.

    • #30992
      sharkboy
      Member

      and no, the Gusties won’t all fit on the Olaf pool deck.

    • #30993
      jmanders85
      Member

      I heard from an Olaf source that westby will be swimming one-armed… and will win.

    • #30994
      middie07
      Member

      I’m just excited to see this “58 breaststroker” the Gusties got.

    • #30995
      mindgame
      Member

      My prediction: Olaf woman have large victory and Ole men win by a small margin.

      There’s nothing wrong with a harmless delusion now and then.

    • #30996
      silentp
      Member

      @middie07 wrote:

      I’m just excited to see this “58 breaststroker” the Gusties got.

      I love how paranoid Olaf swimmers are. 🙂 I was the one who had heard that but don’t even know if it’s true, just what i heard.

    • #30997

      I have seen no indication that Gustavus has brought in a breastroker that goes 58.

    • #30998

      First of all, I have heard that the Gusties will only be bringing one bus to this meet (which I know disappoints many of the non-conference roster people). So, you don’t need to worry that all 15,923,984.6 Gusties will fit on the pool deck.

      Secondly, I will predict that the fastest Gustie breaststroker will go around a 1:01. I just don’t think they have a 58. man.

      Finally, I will predict a Gustie win (on the men’s side) and a closer meet then many are expecting on the women’s side (though I think that Olaf will still win by a fairly wide margin). To back this up: on the men’s side, last year GAC squeeked (and boy do I mean squeeked) out a win against Olaf. They only lost Pearson to graduation, and as I recall he wasn’t even the fastest backstroker for the Gusties at last year’s duel. Also, last year Stewart was severely hampered by his ankle sprain and was swimming well off the rest of his in season times. Olaf, on the other hand, lost several seniors who score many more points then Pearson did, Glineberg for example. I think these facts are in favor of GAC. However, the new freshman (on both teams) might have a huge impact and totally throw off my predictions. On the women’s side, I have heard that GAC got some really solid swimmers, and while not enough to win the meet, should fair much better then last year’s thrashing.

    • #30999
      Deep Water
      Member

      Will olaf 1-2 the medley relay again? I think they can if they load it up and give GAC 1-2 in the free relay. I think the big upset will be Koch wining the 50 or 100 free. I think GAC will dominate the fly and mid distance free events with back being even and olaf doing well in the breast and IM. Is diving going to be as close as last year. I think it was only a 1 point swing last year. My guess is a 8 point Gustavus win (men).

    • #31000
      Vincent Vega
      Member

      16 events will make a difference. But it doesn’t favor Olaf. Westby can still only “dominate” 2 individuals. And GAC has more depth.

      I think Olaf will steal a sprint freestyle. Heads up Hagemeyer. No more gifts. You will be challenged this year. If you don’t take it seriusly… you will get beat.

      If it is true that westby has a bum shoulder, he won’t dominate anything. Wareham in the Breast, Zeigler in the Fly.

      I’ll pick GAC to win and this is why. All I see and hear from Olaf is Wesby’s gonna do this and Westby that. Well, it takes more than one guy for a team to win. He can only do so much. I don’t see any other Olies putting it on their shoulders and dominating. And that’s what I think it will take.

      On the other hand, maybe the Olies have a ringer they haven’t revealed yet.

    • #31001
      sharkboy
      Member

      Vincent Vega is right, Olaf can’t rely on Westby to win the meet for them. They will need an excellent overall team preformance and an upset or two to beat GAC.

      The women’s meet should be much closer than last year, but Olaf will prevail.

    • #31002
      mindgame
      Member

      Why is everyone so sure that the Ole women will beat GAC? If it’s true that GAC got some really solid new swimmers, maybe GAC will have the edge.
      Olaf’s roster has only 5 freshmen women (two of those are divers), plus the addition of Aly Janzen from Hamline. Is that enough to make up for the loss of Blum, Knoell, Berg, and Love? Maybe, maybe not.
      I guess it would help to see GAC’s roster.

    • #31003

      Seriously, when is Carlson going to put up the roster? It is now two weeks into the season and it still has not been posted. Is this Carlson trying to hold out as long as he can before he puts it up or is he just being lazy?
      As for the Olaf v. GAC women, the reason I think that Oles are going to win is that they still have the guns to win many of the events. Even though they did lose some key seniors, the Gusties lost a couple too. The Gusties lot their top two divers and they lost Katie Hanyes (one of the top backstrokers in the conference). The Gusties major problem is that they do not have very many top level swimmers. They have a lot of depth, but not the ability to win the number of races it takes to beat the Oles in a duel meet. If the Gusties only pick up 4 or 5 event wins out of 14 (not counting the relays) it becomes almost impossible for them to win the meet. As for their freshman, they would need to pick up a couple big studs to be able to win enough events to make the meet close and pull out a win. And while I have heard that Carlson did get a couple good girls, I am sure that Olaf did too. Plus, the Haucks are known for their ability to help their freshmen drop a ton of time. So I just don’t think the Gusties will be able to win a duel.

    • #31004
      silentp
      Member

      On the women’s side, I could see GAC winning the following events:
      100 and 200 breast
      100 and 200 back
      200 IM
      100 fly
      MR

      They should show depth in all the freestyles and could maybe pull one out, but their chances of winning the dual are low.

    • #31005
      SeekUp
      Member

      I will give the 100 and 200 breast to Gac seeing as how they have Sarah Koepp but it will be hard for the women to pull off the rest. Olaf has home pool advantage and some of the gustavus women tend to have large drops and the end of the season and not much to show at the begining.

    • #31006
      mindgame
      Member

      There seems to be some talk here about a 16-event meet. This would be a new format for the Olaf/Gustie dual. They have, in recent years, always done the 13-event meet with the 200 strokes.
      Now if they plan to do the 16-event, maybe at least one of the relays would be a 200. I would think that would be a plus for Gustavus, both men and women.

    • #31007
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @mindgame wrote:

      There seems to be some talk here about a 16-event meet. This would be a new format for the Olaf/Gustie dual. They have, in recent years, always done the 13-event meet with the 200 strokes.

      The 13 events with 400 relays used to be the default line up. Now it’s the 16 event format with a 200 medley and 400 free relay. Since they’ve consistently done the default event program in the past I doubt they would not do that now even if it changes what they’re used to doing.

      The 200 medley might be to GACs advantage simply because the Oles can’t build that big of a lead.

    • #31008
      silentp
      Member

      @N Dynamite wrote:

      @mindgame wrote:

      There seems to be some talk here about a 16-event meet. This would be a new format for the Olaf/Gustie dual. They have, in recent years, always done the 13-event meet with the 200 strokes.

      The 13 events with 400 relays used to be the default line up. Now it’s the 16 event format with a 200 medley and 400 free relay. Since they’ve consistently done the default event program in the past I doubt they would not do that now even if it changes what they’re used to doing.

      The 200 medley might be to GACs advantage simply because the Oles can’t build that big of a lead.

      It could also hurt GAC if they try to win it and fail, but use some of their studs that would normally swim the FR in it, therefore not allowing them to double up on the 400 FR.

    • #31009
      Eladron
      Member

      This is the week!!! Any new predictions now that we have seen them in action? I’ve heard is it a 16 event meet who do you think this helps more? I think it helps Olaf because it gives them more stroke events. Anyone disagree?

    • #31010

      Nope, I must agree with you here. The Oles have a big advantage in the backstrokes and they have the breaststrokes pretty much locked up, as they do the 200 Med. I would also give them the advantage in the 100 fly. I will give the 200 fly (Stewart had an amazing time against mankato last week), thw 400 Free Relay and the distance events to the Gusties. The sprint frees, I think, are going to be very close. In the 50, Amundson went a 21.80 and Koch went a 21.81 last weekend.

      This should be a very close, exciting meet this year.

    • #31011
      mindgame
      Member

      @SeekUp wrote:

      I will give the 100 and 200 breast to Gac seeing as how they have Sarah Koepp but it will be hard for the women to pull off the rest. Olaf has home pool advantage and some of the gustavus women tend to have large drops and the end of the season and not much to show at the begining.

      Now that we’ve seen a few results from both teams, would you care to revise your prediction?

    • #31012
      mindgame
      Member

      @SeekUp wrote:

      My prediction: Olaf woman have large victory

      Now that we’ve seen a few results from both teams, would you care to revise your prediction?

    • #31013
      silentp
      Member

      I’ll do some predictions:

      2 medley: Olaf 1-2

      1000: Davis, by a lot, GAC gains a few points back

      200: I’ll take my chances with Ben or Stewart, GAC gains more back.

      1back: Olaf has edge, but Hagemeyer could upset, Olaf gains some

      1 breast: olaf has large edge

      2fly: GAC goes 1-2-3, gains quite a bit back, still trails

      50: This could go either way, but unless Koch wins, GAC scores more, if Koch wins, they only gain a point

      100: GAC edge

      2back: Olaf goes 1-2

      2breast: Might be an Olaf sweep here, takes bigger lead

      500: Ben wins, maybe 1-2 with Davis, they come back

      1 fly: Westby probably wins, but Connor or Stewart (if he swims it), could upset

      IM: should be westby vs Stewart, i’ll go edge Stewart

      FR: GAC 1-2

      Should be close but Olaf will probably win unless some major upsets occur. Questions about what Stewart and Westby swim.

      For the Women, I think GAC could actually win that with wins in the medley relay, 200 free, 100 back, 100 breast, 200 fly, 200 breast, and 500 with some other close races. I predict that to be closer than the men.

    • #31014
      SeekUp
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      For the Women, I think GAC could actually win that with wins in the medley relay, 200 free, 100 back, 100 breast, 200 fly, 200 breast, and 500 with some other close races. I predict that to be closer than the men.

      @mindgame wrote:

      Now that we’ve seen a few results from both teams, would you care to revise your prediction?

      I would like to change my prediction. I still say Olaf wins but obviously it will be by a much closer margin then I thought. Gac showed some surprising and impressive results and I am excited to see what both teams are able to do in such a competitive atmosphere. SP’s predictions are legitimate but Olaf also has some good distance swimmers, backstrokers and flyers that could take down gac’s girls in the 100back and 200 fly. Olaf also has a little better depth and could sweep the 200IM, 12 the 200 back, has the returning conference champ on the 200 free along with some other solid sprinters, and diving could be a big help (although I have no idea what gac has for divers). The meet’s in 4 days and it will come down to which team is able to step it up under pressure and in spite of the intensity of practices this time of the season.

    • #31015
      The15mMark
      Member

      @SeekUp wrote:

      … Olaf has the returning conference champ on the 200 free …

      If I’m not mistaken… Didn’t the Gusties 1-2-3-4 the 2 free last year at Conference? Leaving Olaf with a shameful 5th at best?

      Unless of course you were speaking about the women’s side, in which case I have no knowledge and I will retract my statements.

    • #31016
      silentp
      Member

      @The15mMark wrote:

      @SeekUp wrote:

      … Olaf has the returning conference champ on the 200 free …

      If I’m not mistaken… Didn’t the Gusties 1-2-3-4 the 2 free last year at Conference? Leaving Olaf with a shameful 5th at best?

      Unless of course you were speaking about the women’s side, in which case I have no knowledge and I will retract my statements.

      SeekUp was indeed speaking of the women’s side. I find it very interesting, however, that SeekUp would cite the Olaf victory in the 200 as a reason why they would win this (over a freshman who wasn’t in the race, obviously), but fail to mention that a GAC female won the IM. Instead, saying Olaf could 1-2-3… why does the “last year’s champ” logic apply to an Olaf swimmer, but not a GAC swimmer? I am not saying it couldn’t happen, because i don’t believe in the last year’s champ having much influence over a dual meet result.

    • #31017
      SeekUp
      Member
      “silentp wrote:
      I find it very interesting, however, that SeekUp would cite the Olaf victory in the 200 as a reason why they would win this (over a freshman who wasn’t in the race, obviously), but fail to mention that a GAC female won the IM. Instead, saying Olaf could 1-2-3… why does the “last year’s champ” logic apply to an Olaf swimmer, but not a GAC swimmer? I am not saying it couldn’t happen, because i don’t believe in the last year’s champ having much influence over a dual meet result.

      The reason i mentioned the Olaf’s 200 free champion is because she (Mikayla Meyer) has yet to swim that event this season where as Sara Pfau (200 IM champ) swam the IM and went a 2:21. But SP has a good point that last years champions probably don’t have that big of an infulence on a dual since some are great taper swimmers and others are able to perform at champion level all season.

    • #31018
      mindgame
      Member

      [quote=”silentp”I find it very interesting, however, that SeekUp would cite the Olaf victory in the 200 as a reason why they would win this (over a freshman who wasn’t in the race, obviously), but fail to mention that a GAC female won the IM. Instead, saying Olaf could 1-2-3… why does the “last year’s champ” logic apply to an Olaf swimmer, but not a GAC swimmer?[/quote]

      Your sibling loyalty is commendable, silentp. However I think C-Cup (SeekUp) was overlooking Pfau in the IM, because of Pfau’s tendency to not show her true colors till later in the season.
      I believe the women’s IM race on Friday is just too close to call. Many of the races are going to be very close. And it’s tricky to predict the outcome of the meet based on last weekend’s results, because the lineups will probably vary from last weekend. GAC has some versatile first-years who could do well in unexpected events. Also true for Olaf’s Dolan (last year she swam the 200breast and won, although that particular event is not an option for her this year) She could do well in the IM.
      This meet could hold some surprises.
      Maybe GAC women could even 1-2 in the 200medley relay?

    • #31019
      swim5599
      Member

      I noticed that Westby looked pretty good in their last meet. He split 22 mid in the medley in the fly, anyone know how he is doing with the injury

    • #31020
      The15mMark
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I noticed that Westby looked pretty good in their last meet. He split 22 mid in the medley in the fly, anyone know how he is doing with the injury

      Judging by how he swam at both the relay meet and the Olaf Quadrangular, I’d say either he’s one tough cookie who deals with the pain VERY well or his injury has been hyped up beyond belief due to the miracle that is d3swimming.com :). My guess is that Westby has shoulder problems, but nothing that smart practicing, icing, and some ibuprofin can’t fix.

      With the big dual T-minus 32 hrs 55 mins and counting, are there any clear favorites for event winners? Anyone care to post their predictions for top finishers, event by event?

      Freestyle

      50: Amundson and Koch neck-and-neck. Amundson’s finish beats out Koch for the win.

      100: Hagemeyer’s too big and too strong off the walls and on the last 25. Hagemeyer takes it, but not by the margins he used to.

      200: Hanson if he swims it, otherwise close battle between an Ole and Stewart

      500: Hanson or Davis

      1000: Hanson or Davis

      Backstroke

      100: Kukla or Meyer. Hagemeyer’s not in form yet. Watch out for Waylander to make a surprise move.

      200: Kukla or Meyer. Watch out for Waylander again to try the upset.

      Breaststroke

      100: Olaf goes 1-2

      200: Olaf goes 1-2

      Butteryfly

      100: Westby vs. Ziegler. Toss a coin, but in Westby’s favor.

      200: Westby vs. Ziegler vs. Stewart. Favoring the Gusties.

      IM

      200: I’m giving this one to Olaf.

      400: Davis if he swims it, Olaf if he doesn’t.

      Relays (Listed all since I don’t know what’s actually being swum)

      200 FR: Gustavus returns the Clydesdales from last year. Olaf can’t match their size, strength, or speed in this one.

      200 MR: This one could go either way. If the GAC breastroker can hold off Wareham from gaining more than 2 seconds in a 50, they have a shot.

      400 FR: The Clydesdales from GAC

      400 MR: Olaf by 1/2 pool length or more

    • #31021
      iknowall
      Member

      Freestyle:

      200/400 MR: Olaf goes 1-2

      1000 Free: Hanson and Davis go 1-2

      200 Free: Got to give the nod to Stewart, but Anderson’s senioritis kicks in to make it close

      100 Back: Meyer and Kukla go 1-2

      100 Breast: Wareham wins by a mile, a dog race for second

      200 Fly: Stewart, Ziegler, Cuevas go 1-2-3

      50 Free: Too close to call. Koch, Amundson, Hagemeyer are all in the mix for the win

      100 Free: Westby vs. Hagemeyer with the nod going to the kid

      200 Back: Kukla, Meyer again go 1-2

      200 Breast: Again, Wareham wins by a mile with another dog race for second

      500 Free: Hanson is the favorite, with Anderson and Davis in the mix

      100 Fly: Westby wins by half a second with Stewart on his heels

      200 IM: Westby dominates with a close battle for second

      400 FR: GAC goes 1-2

      Unlike last year, this meet will be decided before the last relay. The deciding events will be the two sprint freestyles and the race for second and third in the breastrokes and IM.

    • #31022
      silentp
      Member

      First of all, if Stewart swims the 200 free, it’s not going to be close. However, i don’t think he’ll swim it because it would kill his 200 fly. If he does swim it, he would not be in the 200 fly and GAC would assume one of their other flyers would win it anyway. This would move Stewart to the IM, meaning Westby would not dominate. Westby could still win, but with Stewart going 1:57 without competition, there is no way he wouldn’t go down without a fight.

    • #31023
      iknowall
      Member

      Good call on the 200 IM instead of the 200 Fly. But I do have to point out that Westby’s 200 IM time from Nationals last year would have been 2nd in the finals heat. That is second in the nation. I won’t disagree that Stewart had an impressive meet against Mankato, but I still stand by my prediction that Westby will dominate the 200 IM…i mean come on, look at Stewart’s breastroke.

    • #31024
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I would think that a guy with Westby’s ability could probably pop off 1:55 in the Im at any time, if that is the case he would dominate the IM. Westby’s weakness is the backstroke, and he is still a pretty damn good backstroker

    • #31025

      I am going to have to agree with SilentP on this. Stewart went a 1:57 with no one even close to him, I think that could reasonably mean he can go a 1:56 with someone right next to him. And, if we take swim5599’s prediction of a 1:55 for Westby (which I agree is a good estimate for him), there is only a one second difference between the two. This is not what I would consider domination.
      I also must agree with SilentP about the 200 free. Stewart has the GAC team record in the 200 free (albeit by a slight margin). There is no reason to say (as 15mMark did) that Hanson is a sure win while Stewart is not. If Anderson is going to be able to put a fight with Stewart, then he should put that same fight up with Hanson. Still, I think that Hanson will be the one to swim it, and try to put Stewart in the 200 IM. I am sure that both zeigler and cuavas will swim the 200 fly, so there is no reason to throw three of their studs in one race.

      Hopefully the results will be posted soon after the meet is done. This is going be a close one with some amazing swims from both teams. I predict some very fast times for this early in the season.

    • #31026
      silentp
      Member

      Stewart was a 1:54.4 at MIACs last year in the 2fly and went 1:55 at the first meet of the year. If you relay this to 200 free, there is no reason to think he couldn’t be a 1:42-high to 1:43 low. I am not sure if his freestyle is as strong right now as his fly, but i have no doubts he’d be sub 1:45 and likely beat Hanson.

      Last year, Westby went 1:58 in this meet in the IM. Now, he has greatly improved, but 3 seconds? I am not sure. I think he’ll be 1:56 in the IM, which is do-able by Stewart, but i’d give Westby the edge.

    • #31027
      The15mMark
      Member

      @backstroker02 wrote:

      Stewart has the GAC team record in the 200 free (albeit by a slight margin). There is no reason to say (as 15mMark did) that Hanson is a sure win while Stewart is not. If Anderson is going to be able to put a fight with Stewart, then he swould put that same fight up with Hanson.

      The only reason that I picked Hanson as a clear favorite over Anderson, and not Stewart over Anderson in history. I can’t think of a race where Hanson got beat by Anderson. That kid (Hanson) just doesn’t know how to quit when Joe is on his heels. I’m convinced that Ben could go 1:39 at anytime, if it meant not losing to Joe. Ok, that was a bit over the top, but you know what I mean. Stewart is a phenomonal swimmer as well, but I haven’t seen the same ability for him to step WAY out of character time and time again and beat someone when the race is close.

    • #31028
      middie07
      Member

      Anderson on Hanson’s heels? Isn’t that a bit backwards from the way the race usually goes, with Hanson on whoever’s heels until he wins it on the last 50? Hanson is a great swimmer, and I see the 200 as being a great race, especially with these two monsters of endurance duking it out at the end.

    • #31029

      Just thought I would mention that Stewart did have a race in the 200 IM at the Mankato meet. He only won the race by like two tenths.

    • #31030
      The15mMark
      Member

      @middie07 wrote:

      Anderson on Hanson’s heels? Isn’t that a bit backwards from the way the race usually goes, with Hanson on whoever’s heels until he wins it on the last 50? Hanson is a great swimmer, and I see the 200 as being a great race, especially with these two monsters of endurance duking it out at the end.

      Good point middie. Hanson does like to let the other swimmer do most of the work, tiring them out before sprinting to the finish at the tail end. But then again in the sport of swimming you’re not rewarded for your margin of victory, only the order in which you finish.

    • #31031
      The15mMark
      Member

      @Procrastinator wrote:

      Just thought I would mention that Stewart did have a race in the 200 IM at the Mankato meet. He only won the race by like two tenths.

      And when given the right motivation, say the Olaf meet, he will go even faster. I agree with the opinion that he’ll do what it takes for GAC in the IM. He might not beat Westby, but he won’t let it go without a fight. That’s for damn sure.

    • #31032
      Vincent Vega
      Member

      If I remember correctly, Hanson pretty much went wire to wire in finals last year at the conference meet in all of his indies.

    • #31033
      Vincent Vega
      Member

      Okay, I’ll give this a shot;
      50 Free Amundson
      100 Free Koch
      200 Free Stewart in a battle with Westby. Yes, Westby will swim the 200 Free.. Olaf needs to take a shot here. (and I don’t think Hanson will swim this event. But, will win it at conference.)
      500 Free Hanson (Maybe he won’t win it at this point of the season. But how can you bet against him? If he gets beat, the winner wil have to swim his guts out. I will also call Hanson the winner at confernce with a 4:27. Who’s gonna beat that?)
      1000 Free Hanson (Maybe Davis. If the froshie can shut down the seasoned vet…. all the power to him.)
      100 Breast Wareham ( Why waste Westby in an event they own.)
      200 Breast Wareham
      100 Fly Westby 1) Stewart 2) Ziegler 3) At this point of the season, Westby has the stroke and Conner works too hard and is to broken down to win)
      200 Fly Stewart then Ziegler and then Hanson.
      100 Back Kukla
      200 Back Kukla
      200 IM Westby (Stewarts strokes aren’t as good as Westby’s. If you lose Nelson, Shame on you!)
      400 IM Davis or Anderson
      Any Free relay to GAC
      Any Med Relay to Olaf
      Diving to Olaf. This is a major downfall in GAC’s program and Carlsons recruiting. Get it right Jon… these are easy points…. just put a little effort into it!

    • #31034
      silentp
      Member

      What about on the ladies’ side? How do people seeing that go down? Total Olaf domination? GAC sneaking it out? I don’t know enough to pick individual winners right now, but maybe someone else does.

    • #31035
      Eladron
      Member

      The women’s side will be much closer than last year but I think Olaf will still hold on to it.

    • #31036
      Deep Water
      Member

      For those not already on there way to the meet. Go to that other swimming website (collegeswimming.com) and vote who you think will win in there national poll.

    • #31037
      silentp
      Member

      scores before first diving

      women 76 to 55 gac leads

      men 73 to 58 olaf leads

    • #31038
      silentp
      Member

      Final results: http://www.stolaf.edu/athletics/swimming/men/media/0607/results/111006.htm

      By the way, the reason the GAC A Women’s got DQ’d and therefore Olaf won, was because a girl jumped in the water… stupid for her. Otherwise, it would have been a tie. Nice split by Pfau.

      1:54 by Westby in the IM, wow.

    • #31039

      WOW!

      Olaf had one amazing meet! Some of those times they put up were extremely fast! As a former backstroker, I was hugely impressed by Kukla and Meyer going 52.7 and 52.4 at the beginning of the season. Those are basically their taper times from last year! So, I went and compared Olaf’s times to their conference taper times from last year. There are several swimmers swimming near (or even faster) then conference last year:

      100 back
      Meyer: 52.41 today, 52.66 conference
      Kukla: 52.73 today, 52.38 conference

      100 breast
      Westby: 57.34 today, 57.59 conference

      50 free
      Koch: 21.14 today, 20.94 conference

      200 back
      Meyer: 1:55.97 today, 1:56.07 conference
      Kukla: 1:57.06 today, 1:57.29 conference

      100 fly
      Westby: 50.74 today, 50.01 conference

      200 IM
      Westby: 1:54.74 today, 1:53.90 conference

      Congrats to these guys on having a great duel meet!

    • #31040
      The15mMark
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      By the way, the reason the GAC A Women’s got DQ’d and therefore Olaf won, was because a girl jumped in the water… stupid for her.

      From what I’ve heard it was a combination of her standing way too close to the edge of the pool and the excitement of her teammates that led to her slipping/falling in, not jumping.

      @backstroker02 wrote:

      Olaf had one amazing meet! Some of those times they put up were extremely fast!

      That they did. Looking at those results and considering what point in the season we’re at, I can’t help but assume that they rested fairly heavily for this dual. In fact, looking back over the past 3 – 5 years it always seems as though the Oles are “tapered” for this dual, but that’s just my speculation. I know it’s a high-power dual meet, but it seems awful silly to rest your squad for a dual at this point in the season.

      What does this mean for the Gusties vs. the Oles at conference? With a handful of swimmers already posting times faster than conference last year, I’ve got to give a big edge to the Oles come February. Then again, if you look at dual meet results versus conference results, the Gusties find a way to put them away, especially when they lose. Hopefully the dual meet last night will show the GAC men’s team what kind of work and dedication it’s going to take to stay on top for a 6th year. It would be shame to have seniors, captains, and conference veterans like Amundson, Hagemeyer, Waylander, etc… lose their last year. Hopefully as leaders they can instill some wisdom in the youngin’s, as well as lead their team to victory on their last stretch.

    • #31041
      middie07
      Member

      I don’t know about any resting, basing this conclusion on the Olaf mid-distance and distance swims. Anderson swam extremely well, as did their first years (Jessop, Bentley, Wagner) but those times were by no means close to what Anderson is capable of. Obviously we don’t have any idea how the freshmen will taper. If you’re going to point at fantastic swims as evidence of resting, look at Stewarts 1:43.8 200 Free, which is almost a B cut or Hagermeyer and Amundson’s equally good 21.7’s. I’m not going to belittle great swims (by either team) by just assuming that they tapered for this meet.

    • #31042

      @The15mMark wrote:

      @silentp wrote:

      By the way, the reason the GAC A Women’s got DQ’d and therefore Olaf won, was because a girl jumped in the water… stupid for her.

      From what I’ve heard it was a combination of her standing way too close to the edge of the pool and the excitement of her teammates that led to her slipping/falling in, not jumping.

      I was at the meet, this is true. They were really excited and all a little to close, she got bumped from behind and could not keep her balance.

      There were a lot of good swims on both sides. Olaf, as a whole, did look a little higher and crisper in the water, which can mean that GAC may have been a little more broken down. A lot of that can be contributed to what type of training swimmers did in the summer. It is early in the season and if you have not put in any training in the off season, your bodywill react differently then if you have.

      As for Olaf resting for the meet, I doubt it. I believe the Minnesota Challenge is next week and I believe Olaf likes to rest for that. So they are preparing for that. That can have an effect. As for what is actually going on in either practice and how the swimmers are responding to training can only be determined if you are there at the practices.

      I think there is little arguemnt that Jon Carlson and the Hauck’s are good coaches. I am sure they are all evaluating where their teams are and what they need to do for the rest of the season to win Conference. This was a good spring board for both teams (men and women) to set up the rest of the season and go to work. Hard to say who will win conference at this point, but I do know that it is going to be fast and exciting. My guess is the fastest conference meet ever.

    • #31043
      lane 6er
      Member

      well, I was also at the meet, and she definitly didn’t just fall in the water. For one, her teammates were trying to hold her back, and when she hopped in the water she was raising her hands in a celebratory way, not an oh crap i just fell in way.

    • #31044
      The15mMark
      Member

      @middie07 wrote:

      If you’re going to point at fantastic swims as evidence of resting, look at Stewarts 1:43.8 200 Free, which is almost a B cut or Hagermeyer and Amundson’s equally good 21.7’s.

      Stewart’s swim I’ll give to you as a fantastic swim that could be evidence of resting. Hagemeyer and Amundson going 21.7’s however, not so much. Amundson only dropped a tenth from the previous weekend, and Hagemeyer only 3 tenths. What about Koch? Dropping from 21.8 to 21.1 in a week is pretty impressive. But then again Hagemeyer did split 20.8 on the relay.

      I guess in the end it’s all a matter of who got in the right mindset for the meet. Obviously men and women from both sides had their shining glories.

      @Its all and ACT wrote:

      My guess is the fastest conference meet ever.

      Without a doubt. Times that used to win I think will be lower top eight this year. 16th last year? Forget it, drop a few tenths per 50 and then we’ll talk about making finals.

      @lane 6er wrote:

      well, I was also at the meet, and she definitly didn’t just fall in the water. For one, her teammates were trying to hold her back, and when she hopped in the water she was raising her hands in a celebratory way, not an oh crap i just fell in way.

      I’ve talked to more than person that was present and everyone confirms that she was too close and was bumped by her equally excited teammates. She fell in, hopped out, and looked very concerned about what had happened. My guess is that she knew that she probably just DQ’ed the meet winning relay ’cause her and her teammates couldn’t keep their emotions under wraps for 5 more seconds.

      Overall, a great meet from both sides. Should be fun to see how GAC and Olaf stack up again in a week at the U. Fast pool, could be crazy. Then again it’ll look a lot less fast and be much less exciting when you’re swimming your personal bests next to a D1 guy going 70% and whooping you.

    • #31045
      SeekUp
      Member

      @The15mMark wrote:

      she probably just DQ’ed the meet winning relay

      It was the meet tying relay not winning, and I think what helped Olaf was their sweep of the 200 IM, which I predicted.

    • #31046

      To John Carlson’s credit, the ref was not going to call the DQ because the girl said she was pushed. Carlson basically told the ref he had to call it though.

      Better to learn the lesson now than at conference.

      I think GAC assistant coach Andy Hagen deserves credit too. I’m nominating him to start a men’s team at Augsburg.

    • #31047
      silentp
      Member

      @SeekUp wrote:

      @The15mMark wrote:

      she probably just DQ’ed the meet winning relay

      It was the meet tying relay not winning, and I think what helped Olaf was their sweep of the 200 IM, which I predicted.

      Yeah, you were correct. Sucks when GAC’s best IMer has to swim the last relay because of an injury to another girl who was supposed to be on the relay.

      Should be an exciting conference meet, I’ll still take GAC for the men and GAC to beat Olaf for the women… not sure about beating Carleton yet though.

    • #31048

      Chapel Partner,

      Andy Hagen is the Yin to Jon Carlson’s Yang.

      P.S. Your avatar is bucket.

    • #31049

      I don’t think anyone in that natatorium wanted the gustie’s final relay DQed. Bob and Dave Hauck least of all. 🙁 😮 😥 😯

      And in response to the suggestion that the Oles tapered for the meet, I would like to dispell this notion by citing the Ole’s training cyle in which the week before the dual was the completion of one of the most high intensity phases of their season. 💡 ❗ 😕

      Additionally, it seems interesting to me that the conjecture continues on the Gustie/Ole men’s side, even when the gustie men were so soundly put to bed, whereas on the women’s side, which I think pretty much everyone considers to be a tie, there has been little speculation with respect to the future of the MIAC. Could this be the end of the Ole women’s reign? Could the Gustie girls eek out a win? How will Carleton’s role effect this aquatic opus? Is it going to come down to the star performances or depth? What, if any, are the implications of the results of this meet? ❗ 🙄 8) 😆

    • #31050
      The15mMark
      Member

      @i m reelly fast wrote:

      Additionally, it seems interesting to me that the conjecture continues on the Gustie/Ole men’s side, even when the gustie men were so soundly put to bed…

      Olaf winning the dual means nothing come February. If anything, looking back at past years when Olaf wins the dual GAC turns around and dominates conference. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the closest Conference has been in the past 3 to 4 years was 2 years ago when Olaf also won the dual. If history repeats itself, this loss will only light a fire under the Gusties’ butts and Olaf will be the ones getting put to bed at the U.

      Also, I don’t know if you can say that the Gusties were “soundly put to bed”, seeing as how they did 1-2, or 1-2-3 some of the events. Granted Olaf had the upper hand the entire meet, but it was a good, fun meet.

      @i m reelly fast wrote:

      whereas on the women’s side, which I think pretty much everyone considers to be a tie, there has been little speculation with respect to the future of the MIAC. Could this be the end of the Ole women’s reign? Could the Gustie girls eek out a win? How will Carleton’s role effect this aquatic opus? Is it going to come down to the star performances or depth? What, if any, are the implications of the results of this meet?

      The women’s side is much more complicated since there are 3 powerhouses instead of just 2. Whereas on the men’s side it’s who can take more points away from the other team, on the women’s side it’s about who’s taken more points away from which other teams. I one team falls behind, beating athletes from one team only helps another and so on. My predicition is a very fast, close meet with Olaf first, GAC second not by much , and Carleton in a very, very close 3rd.

    • #31051

      First, “i m reelly fast” blinded me with all of their emoticons.

      Second, if anyone is interested, take a look at how the Ole-GAC times compared to last weeks Denison-Kenyon dual times.

      Both teams would have held their own I think:

      http://www.stolaf.edu/athletics/swimming/men/media/0607/results/111006.htm

      http://athletics.kenyon.edu/x24186.xml

      Oh, and I heard Jon Carlson had GAC do 100 x 100s the day before the meet so that they would give Olaf false hope. It was assistant coach Hagen’s idea. He’s a genius.

    • #31052
      The15mMark
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      … take a look at how the Ole-GAC times compared to last weeks Denison-Kenyon dual times.

      Those results look surprisingly slow for teams of that caliber. Are they just broken down as heck right now? Or were the high power lineups not in order?

    • #31053
      silentp
      Member

      @The15mMark wrote:

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      … take a look at how the Ole-GAC times compared to last weeks Denison-Kenyon dual times.

      Those results look surprisingly slow for teams of that caliber. Are they just broken down as heck right now? Or were the high power lineups not in order?

      Kenyon had swam the night before against Ohio University and was therefore tired, but it was their “high powered” lineup. These teams are also much more broken down than the MIAC powers right now, it always works that way. Both strategies have had great results come conference at the end, however those 2 teams are training for March, not February (for the most part).

    • #31054
      chlorination
      Member

      This was a great meet to watch, especially on the women’s side. But I think the conference meet on the Men’s side is going to be close this year. Last year Olaf was able to be pretty dominating in the breastrokes and this year they could be in the backstrokes as well. Not to mention that the result of the 50 free and 100 free isn’t as easy to predict if Koch keeps swimming like he is. I saw the 100 at the duel, Hagemeyer and Amundson might have been broken down and tired but they let Koch pull away on the last length.

      I’ll still be rooting for my gusties at conference though. They better put the work in because Olaf set the bar Friday night with some amazing swims. Not to say there weren’t on the GAC side.

      Another thing I’d like to mention is that Olaf should probably work on their fans. About 70 – 80 Ole students were in the stand through the first diving break and then they all took off. I don’t know where they went, since I doubt it was to a party. Also if an Ole swimmer reads this and you knew that row of guys that were acting classless, booing the GAC team, booing GAC fans, and my favorite the fat kids with glasses wearing the shirt that said “GAC isn’t that good at swimming.” (I guess he didn’t see the conference meet the last 5 years). I know there’s a major rivalry here but you won’t ever see a GAC fan talking major BS to an Ole fan or swimmer.

      just my thoughts.

    • #31055

      In response to Chlorination…

      I heard the Hauck’s apologized to Carlson and Hagen after the meet for some of their fans behavior.

      I think the “cheering” is both good and bad.

      It shows the sport has local support. College kids are notorious for being jerks to rivals. Just attend any Johnny-Tommy basketball/football game if you are unfamiliar. Kids making t-shirts and signs I think is pretty funny, but there obviously is a line.

      One kid had a t-shirt saying he was pregnant with Westby’s baby. That’s gold.

      The only problem is that at most meets, the fans are right behind the swimmers. And if a swimmer is trying to get ready or is cheering for his team, he/she is pretty much defenseless to comments from the crowd. Also, there usually are no ushers (like with basketball or football) that can keep an eye out for unruly fans.

      Maybe this shows there is such a thing to home pool advantage now. At least in the GAC-Ole rivalry.

    • #31056
      SeekUp
      Member

      @chlorination wrote:

      you won’t ever see a GAC fan talking major BS to an Ole fan or swimmer.

      I was at the St. Olaf vs. Gustavus volleyball game this fall at gustavus and witnessed first hand gac fans being offensive and rude. There were plastic forks thrown in our direct at one point. But seriously this is college athletics and most of the students who came to support the swim team were athletes themselves with their own Gustie rivals. I thought it was nice to actually see fans at a swim meet in the first place and you have to admit the gustavus shirt was creative and a little funny…

    • #31057
      silentp
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      One kid had a t-shirt saying he was pregnant with Westby’s baby. That’s gold.

      The t-shirt about GAC not being that good at swimming isn’t funny and isn’t creative, but this shirt is awesome. They need to sell those at the bookstore.

      It’s about time a swim meet has unruly fans, i for one applaud it. There is a line, every one will agree, but booing certainly doesn’t cross that line. Perhaps a sign from an Olaf fan saying “My Coach had “sexual relations” with your Grandma”… what, too far? 🙂

    • #31058
      splitmaster
      Member

      What about that dance/show or call it ritual that the ollie’s put together before the meet. ❓ I have never seen anything like that. Can someone explain the meaning? I have to say it was very a funny openning act for what is turning into a great rivalry.

    • #31059
      Eagle in 01
      Member

      Personaly as a GAC swimmer I thought the “cheering” was funny. I mean all they could come up with was Us: “G-A-C” Them: “sucks”, and when we were standing in front of them looking at the line up they said stuff like: “did you guys hear about that westby kid, ya I hear he can beat all D3 swimmers and most D1 swimmers.” So if it was ment to demoralize us it was a rather weak attempt. Second about that ‘ritual’ that was friggin’ sweet. Hey Thomas, if your on here, wanna teach me that sometime?

    • #31060
      swim5599
      Member

      Man was Westby impressive. I think the 57.3 was the most impressive swim, but how about his 22.0 split in the medley on the fly leg, that is just ridiculous.

    • #31061
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      I guess his shoulder is ok… How do you think his j-term abroad will effect his performance at Conference/Nationals?

    • #31062

      Oh yeah, Westby is going to be hurting after j-term in Hungary. I hear he’ll be visiting his uncle, who is the deputy prime minister, so it’s doubtful he’ll be able to do alot of swimming. It’s tough because his high school coach has said that so much of his speed relies solely on his work ethic; raw talent has very little to do with it. 😯 👿 🙁

    • #31063
      The15mMark
      Member

      @i m reelly fast wrote:

      Oh yeah, Westby is going to be hurting after j-term in Hungary. I hear he’ll be visiting his uncle, who is the deputy prime minister, so it’s doubtful he’ll be able to do alot of swimming. It’s tough because his high school coach has said that so much of his speed relies solely on his work ethic; raw talent has very little to do with it.

      I really doubt that. It’s extremely rare to see someone at that level who is there on work ethic alone. That kid was born to swim and work ethic has complemented that very well. As far as Westby not having any natural talent, name me one person in the MIAC who has more natural talent than Westby. I can’t think of anyone.

    • #31064
      The15mMark
      Member

      @CRUNCHYSOCK wrote:

      I guess his shoulder is ok… How do you think his j-term abroad will effect his performance at Conference/Nationals?

      If he’s completely unable to practice for a month, I’d say that he’s not going to be at the level he’s at right now. All though it’s been shown in the past (by GAC swimmers and from other teams) that’s it’s possible to take a month off, come back, and still rock the house. I guess it’ll all depend on how well his body wil respond to a 6 week taper, rather than the traditional 3.

    • #31065
      The15mMark
      Member

      @splitmaster wrote:

      What about that dance/show or call it ritual that the ollie’s put together before the meet. I have never seen anything like that. Can someone explain the meaning? I have to say it was very a funny openning act for what is turning into a great rivalry.

      From what I’ve heard it was a very intense, Olaf men’s team thing. Sounds like it got them all pretty jacked up for the first relay (which they went 1 – 2 in by the way). I’ve heard that all the Olaf men had bright red outlines on their chests from each of their hands for the first 15 – 20 minutes of the meet. Now that’s intense!

    • #31066

      It’s a traditional dance that basically means “I’m not going to die.” The legend goes that some chief was running from a warring tribe since he was unarmed and didn’t want to get killed without having some chance of killing some of them. So anyway he fell into a hole and they passed him by. The next morning he heard someone coming and thought it was the guys who had been chasing him. It was actually a friendly chief from another village, who pulled him out of the hole. Glad so many people seemed to enjoy it.

    • #31067

      I thought the display was the most homo-erotic thing I’d seen since “Stomp.” On the “chub scale”, I gave it 3/4s of a chub.

      I hope they do that to the Gopher Men’s team this weekend.
      [/quote]

    • #31068
      maverick1
      Member

      i went to kalamazoo and never witnessed this rivalry, but would like to comment that we always had to do a cheer with our women’s team and it sounds like the oles don’t…..do the gac teams do a cheer together?

      it always annoyed me that we had to do our with the women’s team, mostly because for 3 of the 4 years i was there they didn’t care at all about swimming in comparison to the men’s team.

    • #31069

      @maverick wrote:

      …..do the gac teams do a cheer together?.

      We never did any cheers with the women at GAC as far as I can recall. Our women’s team was the same way as Kzoo’s women’s team. I think they treated it as a social club/support group, more than a swim team.

    • #31070
      Look Up
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      but would like to comment that we always had to do a cheer with our women’s team and it sounds like the oles don’t

      The Oles did their traditional cheer with men and women together, then the guys split off and did their own “ritual”.

    • #31071
      The15mMark
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      …do the gac teams do a cheer together?

      They do indeed. At the beginning of a meet Carlson has a team meeting where he says things to the whole team who, afterwards, participates in a team cheer where they introduce themselves and get fired up. Quite a thing to witness, pretty intimidating sometimes.

    • #31072

      @thomasisonnow wrote:

      It’s a traditional dance that basically means “I’m not going to die.” The legend goes that some chief was running from a warring tribe since he was unarmed and didn’t want to get killed without having some chance of killing some of them. So anyway he fell into a hole and they passed him by. The next morning he heard someone coming and thought it was the guys who had been chasing him. It was actually a friendly chief from another village, who pulled him out of the hole. Glad so many people seemed to enjoy it.

      Ohhhhhhh, the All Blacks’ haka. Wow! Yeah, that would be fun to watch. Takes some practice to learn too, I bet.

    • #31073

      Glad to hear ChapelPartner enjoyed it. And I should mention that I of course spent much time discussing this with the womens’ team, who agreed to let us do the haka with only the men. I think they enjoyed it. It is not something we will do often, as it does seperate what we think of as a unified team. Our doing the haka is akin the GAC men doing a little “dive show” at Steven’s Point. I don’t know how the women on their team feel about it, but it seems like at least people get a laught out of it so it’s all right-the same sort of reason we did the haka.

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