National SCY Champs

Lochte is shaving and tapering, not sure about Phelps. This weekend, specifically this meet and the Texas Invite, is going to be incredibly fast.

I personally like Phelps’ seed time in the 200…
1:29.8? I’m pretty sure its his LCM WR generously converted

Call me a non-believer, but I don’t see him, or anyone cracking 1:30

I see Courage (50, 100) and Payne (50, 100 br, 200 br) are both entered. Any other former (or current) d3 swimmers in the meet?

Duda in the flys

This meet is ridiculous. There are like 100 women seeded under 24 in the 50 free. This will be the last taper before the Plympics for alot of the top swimmers, so there should be some really fast times. I assuming he rested a little bit, maybe just this week, but still Phelps will be under 1:30 in the 200 free. Who wins the 100 free, Phelps Cielo or BW-T

Well I am pretty sure Lochte has not been rested since his WR swim at the world Championships. He is going to scary. He in my opinion is probably already the greatest scy guy ever, I am assuming he is just going to blow up in this meet. If he decides to swim the 200 free what a battle that will be with Phelps.

Senior Nationals used to be conducted in yards in the spring and meters in the summer. I think the change was around 1990 or so. I am for the yards meters format. 90-95% of the swimmers who compete at Seniors are not ever going to the Olympics so why change the format to accomdate 5% of the swimmers at the meet.

The beauty of having a SCY nationals in December is that it improves both formats. It legitimizes SCY by awarding national titles, and it will make the US better in LCM by making the season an adequate length for the big guns. Before, when they held a LCM nationals in late March or early April it made the summer season too short. Now the elites can really focus on summer nationals, which are pretty much always a trials for some international meet or another these days.

However, I’m slightly dissapointed by the number of stars entered in this inaugural SCY nationals. I can understand that college coaches would want to have their teams go to more traditional December meets so as to qualify relays, but where is Katie Hoff? Ian Crocker? Brendan Hansen? Aaron Peirsol? Etc. Hopefully participation will go up in the years to come.

Personally I think they should Scrap all Yard meets and change it all to Meters (25 meters). This would include all Divisions in Swimming, I would even say High School, age-group short course states, etc. I know there are arguements that teams cannot train in 25 meters, but a couple of races in Meters can get a swimmer prepared to swim. Why, if the entire world swims meters are we still doing Yards. There have been many great swims in Yards, but those would be world records in 25 meters. If everything is competed in Meters, then new pools will be built 25 meters.

Because this is America, and any real American hates the metric system. You are a real American, aren’t you ACT? 😉

@Its all an ACT wrote:

Personally I think they should Scrap all Yard meets and change it all to Meters (25 meters). This would include all Divisions in Swimming, I would even say High School, age-group short course states, etc. I know there are arguements that teams cannot train in 25 meters, but a couple of races in Meters can get a swimmer prepared to swim. Why, if the entire world swims meters are we still doing Yards. There have been many great swims in Yards, but those would be world records in 25 meters. If everything is competed in Meters, then new pools will be built 25 meters.

what about the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!” policy?
America has lasted as the dominant swimming nation now for well over 20 years, it seems that we do just fine internationally with the current system. Sure, it’d be nice to have a lot of NCAA/American/US open records turn into WR, but I don’t think a massive overhaul is worth JUST that benefit for the top 2% or so.

Hey, i’ve got 5 with any one on this forum that we’ll see the first sub 1:40 im this weekend!

…of course, everyone knows i’m joking, because gambling on athletics is strickly forbidden by the NCAA

@CaseBrst10 wrote:

what about the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!” policy?
America has lasted as the dominant swimming nation now for well over 20 years, it seems that we do just fine internationally with the current system. Sure, it’d be nice to have a lot of NCAA/American/US open records turn into WR, but I don’t think a massive overhaul is worth JUST that benefit for the top 2% or so.

We are the only industialized nation that continually holds to Yards, miles, inches, etc (acutally does anyone else). Why?

I am not only talking about the top 2%, but everyone. How do most high schoolers compare their times to the top in the world (I would even venture to say most American Swimmers including all three divisions). I know most of them don’t swim year around or longcourse (which is fine), but they really don’t know where they sit. I know most of them don’t really care, but it does make the sport universal. Is it not possible that by switching the meets to Meters could bring more interest to the sport, more exposure. Example are the high school records. The top times could be compared to world rankings. What would Nate Dusings high school record in the 100 fly be if it were in meters, what would his world ranking be? What about Hudepol (sp?)? Imagine if a high school record is set and the papers come out saying it ranks that swimmer 8th in the world as a high schooler, or even is swimmers make the top 100 rankings. That brings a lot more attention to the sport in the country then breaking a high school record. Not only that, but it brings more buzz around the sport to younger swimmers and those that are not on the same level.

I would venture to guess the majority of people against switching to meters will talk about the great records that would no longer be there, but who cares if most of the swimmers in the world don’t know what they mean. Besides something are los with change, it happens. Look at the events we have know vs. 70 years ago. They used to swim the 400 yard free at one time, but no one worries about that any more.

Or most other would say they don’t like to swim 25 meters or high school coaches would complain about not having 25 meter pools. There are some pools in MN that are still 20 yards, and they used to race 20 yards (they still do for local meets). Again, change, updating the sport. Trust me, in three or 4 years after the switch, most people would adjust and there would not be much of any complaint. There would be a challenge is some area because they only have 25 yard pools, but nothing says things can’t be creative and give time standards still for Yards. Eventually everyone will be building 25 meter pools (most states can go have facilites that can do 25 meters).

As for us being the top swimming power yes, but that has to do with training, not what distance meets are swum in. The “if it ann’t broke, don’t fix it” saying. Out of date. Every company, religion, sport, country, etc need to adapt to improve. This is about making everything universal. High school rules adopt the rule changes of international swimming, why can’t we do the same with meters?

So to get everything to meters, you would just accept that many programs, high school and college would just cut swimming b/c they don’t have a meter pool, you know that would happen right? Or are you just banking on having everyone compete in yards until the league, state, or national meets when they have to compete meters. I agree, its stupid that there isn’t a universal measurement system (not only for swimming but for everything) but that is the way it is. I think its ridiculous to make that change knowing it would ultimately probably cut many programs and be worse for a sport just have the final meet swum meters.

There are way too many SCY pools and way too few SCM pools in this country for a change to be feasible, it’s as simple as that. I’ll wager that most teams (at all levels, summer league, club, HS, college, masters) are getting their swimming done in older, non-convertable SCY pools – you simply cannot turn the entire system around and expect the many teams without access to SCM pools to compete fairly. And I agree with SwexasTim that penny-pinching ADs would use the lack of a SCM pool as another “reason” for cutting teams – we don’t need to be giving them any ammunition in that fight.

And how often does a new indoor (we can’t all live in CA, FL, or AZ, after all) pool get built? I don’t know about where everybody else lives, but it’s not that often in my neck of the woods, because they’re expensive and don’t make money like a new strip mall. Getting enough new SCM pools built to make them the majority would probably take decades of people saying “well, we’ve got to build a new pool…why don’t we make it SCM, just in case the system switches down the road.” Sorry, but I just don’t see how switching to SCM would be practical, even though I find the metric system superior for swimming as well as for weights and measures.

@Chris Knight wrote:

There are way too many SCY pools and way too few SCM pools in this country for a change to be feasible, it’s as simple as that. I’ll wager that most teams (at all levels, summer league, club, HS, college, masters) are getting their swimming done in older, non-convertable SCY pools – you simply cannot turn the entire system around and expect the many teams without access to SCM pools to compete fairly. And I agree with SwexasTim that penny-pinching ADs would use the lack of a SCM pool as another “reason” for cutting teams – we don’t need to be giving them any ammunition in that fight.

And how often does a new indoor (we can’t all live in CA, FL, or AZ, after all) pool get built? I don’t know about where everybody else lives, but it’s not that often in my neck of the woods, because they’re expensive and don’t make money like a new strip mall. Getting enough new SCM pools built to make them the majority would probably take decades of people saying “well, we’ve got to build a new pool…why don’t we make it SCM, just in case the system switches down the road.” Sorry, but I just don’t see how switching to SCM would be practical, even though I find the metric system superior for swimming as well as for weights and measures.

*We can’t all live in CA, FL, or AZ, after all.

we tried for YEARS to get a 50 m pool built in naperville (a town of 140k, with a very large swimming base that has produced quite a few d1 national caliber swimmers and high schools almost always compete for top spots in the state) and it never happened. but a huge bell tower in the middle of town? no proooblem!

i dont know if new trier has a 50 m pool near them, but i’m sure they’ve been wanting a new pool for their high school for a while now. they’ve been hosting winning state swimming championships for years now, they live in an area with a high average income, and even can’t get it built (as far as i know. does NT have a 50 m pool in the area?).

The percentage of age group kids who enjoy competitive swimming is too miniscule to ever support non-recreational 50m pools. Swimming is, at best, a top 15-20 sport in the US. Throw expensive facilities into the equation, and you have a low growth elitist sport. The argument to put a 50 m pool in your cold weather city is about as practical as every town in Alabama putting in a world class ice rink.

If you really want a 50m pool in your town, then get ready to add a water slide, mushroom, and zero-depth area. It isn’t happening otherwise.

The argument that swimmers cannot compete at 50m if they train 25y is pretty weak. I swam in a 20 yard pool until I was 12. Did I just freak out and forget how to swim when my town built a 25 yard pool? Nope. Did I drown at meter 26 when my town built a 50 meter outdoor pool (with waterslide and zero depth area)? Nope.

Sure, some swimmers have a facility advantage. But the advantage is negligable. If you disagree, I’d suggest you talk to the 40 Africans playing soccer for 100k a game in the EPL. Or the kids from Kenya who don’t wear shoes until they can beat 90% of the entrants of the Boston marathon.

@The Treat wrote:

we tried for YEARS to get a 50 m pool built in naperville (a town of 140k, with a very large swimming base that has produced quite a few d1 national caliber swimmers and high schools almost always compete for top spots in the state) and it never happened. but a huge bell tower in the middle of town? no proooblem!

i dont know if new trier has a 50 m pool near them, but i’m sure they’ve been wanting a new pool for their high school for a while now. they’ve been hosting winning state swimming championships for years now, they live in an area with a high average income, and even can’t get it built (as far as i know. does NT have a 50 m pool in the area?).

You’d need to have schools build 25 yard x 25 meter pools like Gustavus has (and Macalester is building) to ease into any transition.

And consider schools probably build new pools once about every 75 years.

So this transition could take a while.

If everything is swithed to meters, it would be 25 meters and not 50. Only 25 meter pools would need to be built. I don’t know what the cost of a 6 or 8 lane 25 meter pool is compared to a 6 or 8 lane 25 yard pool, but I would not tend to think it would be enough not to get new pools built (of course when they are built).

I would have to say the switch has to start at DI nationals and at the club level.

MAC of the MIAC is right, kids can train in yards and still swim meters, 25 or 50.

The cost is really not so much of an issue when you’re talking about “how should we build this pool, 25 yards or 25 meters” – it’s an issue of “wait, we have to get rid of this 25 yard pool which has always been adequate for our needs because we can no longer host meets?” Most communities and schools are just not going to do it.

And ok, maybe there is only a negligible difference when you train in a SCY pool but race SCM or LCM…but there is still a difference. And, I think more significantly, is that changing formats now would drastically limit the number of pools that meets could be hosted in, because of the low number of SCM pools in the US.

If USA Swimming, the NCAA, NISCA, the CSCAA, the YMCA, etc. all got together and decided that the transition would happen in the future (say 20 to 50 years out), then I think it would work. But I don’t see any way to make the change all at once without total chaos.

1 more thing – switching would basically make all records in yards worthless, which would really suck.

Why should the US switch to meters. Let the rest of the world switch to yards.

Plus, I look really cool when I do base 12 math without a calculator. I’d hate to lose that advantage.

@Chris Knight wrote:

1 more thing – switching would basically make all records in yards worthless, which would really suck.

Since most of the swimming population does not care about yards (I am talking on a world perspective) in many ways they already are. In time no one would even care. Just like the old records that are like 220 yards (or whatever they had) from way back in the day.

People only care about long course records broken in the Olympics. And that is only when their fries they got from McDonalds say they win a free Apple Pie if the US wins a gold in that event.

Communities are not building pools for 15-30 athletes to train. They are building pools for Wilfred Brimley and the rest of the cast from Cocoon.

Some pools being built even go out of their way to make sure meets are not held there (make it 24 yards). I know this sounds stupid, but it is true in some cases.

The NCAA would need to lead the way. Athletic directors and Superintendent Chalmers could care less if it is yards, meters, pounds, or stones.

in the early 80’s there was push to switch the US to the metric system. It was supposed to phased in by 2000 or so. My (then future) HS built an 8 lane 25M pool that was deep and fast. A permanent bulkhead making it 25 yards was put in in that late 90’s. ACT is all wet. The only reason that we don’t switch to meteres is because it is too costly. simple

@Mac of the MIAC wrote:

The percentage of age group kids who enjoy competitive swimming is too miniscule to ever support non-recreational 50m pools. Swimming is, at best, a top 15-20 sport in the US. Throw expensive facilities into the equation, and you have a low growth elitist sport. The argument to put a 50 m pool in your cold weather city is about as practical as every town in Alabama putting in a world class ice rink.

If you really want a 50m pool in your town, then get ready to add a water slide, mushroom, and zero-depth area. It isn’t happening otherwise.

The argument that swimmers cannot compete at 50m if they train 25y is pretty weak. I swam in a 20 yard pool until I was 12. Did I just freak out and forget how to swim when my town built a 25 yard pool? Nope. Did I drown at meter 26 when my town built a 50 meter outdoor pool (with waterslide and zero depth area)? Nope.

Sure, some swimmers have a facility advantage. But the advantage is negligable. If you disagree, I’d suggest you talk to the 40 Africans playing soccer for 100k a game in the EPL. Or the kids from Kenya who don’t wear shoes until they can beat 90% of the entrants of the Boston marathon.

@The Treat wrote:

we tried for YEARS to get a 50 m pool built in naperville (a town of 140k, with a very large swimming base that has produced quite a few d1 national caliber swimmers and high schools almost always compete for top spots in the state) and it never happened. but a huge bell tower in the middle of town? no proooblem!

i dont know if new trier has a 50 m pool near them, but i’m sure they’ve been wanting a new pool for their high school for a while now. they’ve been hosting winning state swimming championships for years now, they live in an area with a high average income, and even can’t get it built (as far as i know. does NT have a 50 m pool in the area?).

which just goes to show you how infeasible it would be to switch to meters on a nation wide scale. so if there are zero meters pools (either 25 m or 50 m), the teams will never compete in these pools, you’ll end up having to convert all the times for cuts (and we don’t really have conversions figured out for 50 m b/c how can you take into account turns. 25 m is better, but you’re still dealing w/ lengthening the races).

also, dont use the african/kenyan argument about not having facilities. sure they dont have soccer fields or wear shoes when they run.

1. soccer is a sport that the poor can play. goal scoring is probably the least important aspect of the game (at least at first). ball control and passing come first. you can play in a dirt field w/ no shoes and just a ball and develop the necessary skills to become very good at soccer. it also helps when that is pretty much the only sport they can play and one of the few ways for them to stay out of trouble.
2. in the same light, kenyan’s who beat 90% of the runners in the boston marathon are good runners, not because they love to run, but because they HAD to run. if they wanted to go to school, it was probably 12-15 miles away. you could get up super early and walk that distance, or you could get up later and run it. so everyone in the village who wanted to go to school had to run 12 miles each way in order to get to the village. think about this. if you’ve got thousands upon thousands of people in your country who are already running 100-120 miles per week, you’ve got an amazing pool of talent to draw from. the number of people who run 100 miles a week in the US are counted in the hundreds. so the kenyan’s have a bigger pool to draw from, which leads to finding more talent, and talent that you really dont have to worry about overworking. if one of them goes down b/c you ran them way to hard in preparation for a marathon, who cares. you’ve got thousands more who are willing to sacrifice their bodies by running an insane number of miles per week on the off chance that they go and win the boston marathon and make their paycheck.

i was just pointing out that if they really wanted to switch and the rich communities (albeit in a cold weather climate) couldn’t get it done, the rest of the country probably wont. sure you can just train in yards and then swim meets in meters, but for a distance race where rhythm, breathing patter, turns, etc are crucial, you can’t discount swimming in the same sized pool as a competition. i’m not sold on that yet.

Lets not forget Cool Runnings. They didn’t even have snow, but Derice and John Candy made it work.

@N Dynamite wrote:

I see Courage (50, 100) and Payne (50, 100 br, 200 br) are both entered. Any other former (or current) d3 swimmers in the meet?

Eddis Singleton swam the 50 in 20.35

There is the Texas invite where the Texas swimmers are swimming and some other big names. Not to fast this morning, but it will be intersting if some of them step it up.

http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/results/published/6240.asp

Results for SCY Champs can be found here: http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2007/atlanta_1_2007/index.htm

@Pearl86 wrote:

Results for SCY Champs can be found here: http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2007/atlanta_1_2007/index.htm

swim of the meet has to go to the guy swimming in heat 10 of the 50 free (along w/ lezak, cullen jones, etc…) going a 55. that takes serious talent. i dont care if you fall off the blocks, miss your turn and jam your hand in the lane line 4 times a lap.

and does anyone else hate omega for making all their results pdf (and therefore increasing the load time and page size)??? what is the point of swimming results in a pdf when html/txt will do just fine. god that annoys the hell out of me.

@silentp wrote:

@The Treat wrote:

@Pearl86 wrote:

Results for SCY Champs can be found here: http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2007/atlanta_1_2007/index.htm

swim of the meet has to go to the guy swimming in heat 10 of the 50 free (along w/ lezak, cullen jones, etc…) going a 55. that takes serious talent. i dont care if you fall off the blocks, miss your turn and jam your hand in the lane line 4 times a lap. that takes serious effort.

I was watching live timing and he was a DNS, but someone must have hit the pad, perhaps a person in a different lane swimming to the ladder.

yeah, i figured as much, but wouldn’t you think that meet officials would have just scratched/DQ’ed him?

It looks like they’re having a live webcast of the meet at http://swimnetwork.com/

The one really impressive swim on there was Lochte’s 19.22. Is there anything that guy can’t do.

There are gonna be some kickass races tonight. I think maybe the women’s 50 is tops: Natalie, Weir, Kara Lynn, Komisarz and Hardy all in the middle? Hoo boy! I smell another AR for Natalie…

Also, Cielo missing the final…um, what?

@swim5599 wrote:

The one really impressive swim on there was Lochte’s 19.22. Is there anything that guy can’t do.

I agree.

200 IM tonight will be awesome. Two guys under 1:40?

Lochte wins in 1:40.08, Phelps was 1:41.

Duda went 1:48 in the 200 IM, Singleton was 20.1 in the 50, Courage anchored the 400 medley relay in 45.2.

@Chris Knight wrote:

There are gonna be some kickass races tonight. I think maybe the women’s 50 is tops: Natalie, Weir, Kara Lynn, Komisarz and Hardy all in the middle? Hoo boy! I smell another AR for Natalie…

Also, Cielo missing the final…um, what?

Good call on Natalie – 21.46

Cielo missed it for 2 reasons – not fast enough this morning and only Americans can swim the A-final at night.

I’m taking my laptop to the meet tomorrow… if it is feasible, I’ll post observations from the pool.

is Courage shaved?

http://paswimming.com/flashvideofiles/usanats/main.htm

link to the Lochte im and both 50s. pretty good underwaters for the winners.

400IM:

Vendt looks like he would be a terrible swimmer until he hits the water. Clearly has a lot of power in the water and is smooth. Free was definitely his easiest leg.

Shanteau went as easy as possible on the free to ensure the win- I don’t think he was even breathing hard at the end.

Lochte has great strokes all around and takes long turns. He was first at the first 25 and kept it that way. He kicked halfway off the wall on the last 25. Not sure why? His backstroke was the easiest looking backstroke I’ve ever seen in the 400IM and he was also the fastest – go figure.

Disappointed Phelps didn’t swim the event.

I would have not been last in the event due to somebody going a 4:11. 🙂

100 Fly:

Even my relay split wouldn’t be close in this event.

Duda just went a a 49.0… and randomly I’m sitting next to one of his friends in Atlanta.

Final heat was disappointing, but overall a pretty decent event… a few sub 46. I really don’t have anything of substance to say.

200 Free:

I won’t be identifying events where I would be last any more, since I’m pretty sure the 400 IM was the only one.

Good race in heat 8 with Tarwater, Vendt, Adrian, and Van Wie.. Vendt closed hard.

Heat 9: As expected, Vanderkay won his heat, but Grevers looked good for the first 150. Grevers had a pretty good stroke rate and I expected him to hang on, but I guess he just didn’t have it.

Phelps is so cool that he even gets a different CW cap than the rest of the team. He looked like he was warming up. Chris DeJung really wanted to beat him, and at the 150 just turned first! It appears that Michael doesn’t care.

100 Breast:

Bedenbaugh graduated from Denison from what I hear – didn’t quite live up to his entry time.

Lochte – impressive. How many events can one guy swim?

Davis Zarins – Looked good, but he was on the opposite side of the pool.

Alexandrov was the most impressive. WOW he was all over that event.

100 Back:

This event is going to be extremely impressive tonight.

Duda – Stayed underwater for a long time off 3 walls. Only person to stay under longer was lane 3. Won his heat!

Bal – I grew up in the same area as him, so I’ve been watching him for years. I’ll go ahead and say that he will win tonight.

Lochte is skipping. What a loser!

Marshall looks good. Really long off his last wall.

Grevers used his height on that last wall to get the win. Sun looked good but definitely lost it on the last wall.

Grevers swam three races this morning, and I was impressed with all three. I look for a great race between Grevers, Van Wie, and bal in the backstroke.

ANy chance we see Lochte go 3:36 in the 400 IM

Coughlin was just amazing in that 50 yesterday.