MIAC meet sprints

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    • #12807
      lirpa
      Member

      The 50 and the 100 freestylers are going to look very different at MIAC meet this year.

      Out of the top 8 the 50 returns only 2 (Koch, Hardy)
      The 100 returns only 3 (Koch, Hardy, Plotz)

      I looked this up b/c Chapel partner’s comment that Stewart would win the 100 free caught my attention. What is the likelyhood he swims this? Winter and Ayeung seem likely to upgrade to finals, based on last year’s times, but might not be at the top of the event.

      Meanwhile, Stewart included GAC returns 5 finalist from 200 fly. Without Stewart they are still basically guaranteed at worst first and third in that one, unless there is a 1:54 freshman out there I don’t know of.

      Does this also weaken the 200 free relay field to the point where UST could be a contender for a top spot? SJU brought in some really good sprint freshman, but they are replacing the whole relay without Frank.

      Maybe this has been covered extensively already and I missed it, but it definitely will be a difference at the meet from the last few years.

    • #40553

      I think this has been discussed in a few different posts. But I’ll reiterate that Olaf is the favorite right now in the 200 and 400 FRs.

      Koch, Westby, and either Murrell/Bently/Edwards/O’Keefe/Beisecker is the favorite in both sprint relays in my mind over Stewart, Aeyung, Hanson, and Wakefield (Wi-D, Ziegler, Norquist, or swimmer to be named later could crack into the mix for GAC).

      UST I think has a good shot at cracking the top 3 in either the 200, 400, and 800 FRs. But it will be hard for them to top GAC in any relay this year. Their best chance would be the 200 FR I think, but even that will be difficult (unless for some reason Stewart doesn’t swim it… then all bets are off).

      Carleton lost Krusi and Friedlander-Holm.

      Hamline lost Beckman.

      SJU lost everyone.

      SMU should be improved.

      Mac is looking to fill relays as we speak.

      The individual sprint races will be the wild west this year. Unless Westby swims the 50, Koch is the early favorite… but not by much. Hardy was a 21.13 last year in prelims before shitt*** the bed with a 22.26 in finals (I feel for you Hardy and hope you win the 50 this year). Stewart would be the favorite in the 100 if he swims it… and tapers.

    • #40554

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Stewart would be the favorite in the 100 if he swims it… and tapers.

      Why wouldn’t he taper for Conference? Looking at results from Nationals and Conference up to 5 years back I’m prepared to say that Gustavus has never tapered someone exclusively for Nationals. Near as I can tell Gustavus has always considered Conference to be the big show, and Nationals to be like a treat for a job well done.

      Plus, I think that Gustavus would be pretty much handing Olaf the trophy if they didn’t taper Stewart for MIACs. Amazing athlete aside, he still needs to be rested to score the points GAC is going to need. I would say that there is a very, very, very small outside shot that he would do a 3 – 6 day drop taper with a full shave for Conference and try to focus on Nationals.

    • #40555

      Gustavus has never had a swimmer as good as Stewart. He will be competing to win 3 events at nationals. JC could rest him and Skylar for this reason alone. People forget that Jon is one of very few D3 coaches in the MIAC who already owns a national title (women’s tennis). To say that he is pigeon holed into focusing on conference is really underestimating him.

      A couple of reasons to rest Stewart for nationals

      Stewart should score 55-57 (60 is the max) individual points at conference if he’s not tapered. He would score 57 if tapered (2nd 100 fly). The difference in points is minimal.

      Gustavus is favored to win conference by over 130 pts. They are going to win with, or without a Stewart taper. They could even win without Stewart.

      Unlike most d3 swimmers, Stewart trains year-round. He’s going to be fast the whole year.

      GAC really needs to repeat in the top 5-7 to start bringing in top recruits. Plus they have never had an individual national title.

      A few reasons to double taper Stewart

      JC has the double taper down. He does it well, and swimmers either improve at nats, or at least hold.

      Stewart has the double taper down. He swam faster at nationals than he did at conference.

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      Why wouldn’t he taper for Conference? Looking at results from Nationals and Conference up to 5 years back I’m prepared to say that Gustavus has never tapered someone exclusively for Nationals. Near as I can tell Gustavus has always considered Conference to be the big show, and Nationals to be like a treat for a job well done.

      Plus, I think that Gustavus would be pretty much handing Olaf the trophy if they didn’t taper Stewart for MIACs. Amazing athlete aside, he still needs to be rested to score the points GAC is going to need. I would say that there is a very, very, very small outside shot that he would do a 3 – 6 day drop taper with a full shave for Conference and try to focus on Nationals.

    • #40556

      I can’t disagree with you that Stewart is incredible. It would appear that he can swim any stroke, any distance with great success. Maybe we’ll see him in the mile at some point? Probably not, but that’s OK with me.

      First, I didn’t mean to say that he’s pigeon-holed into focusing solely on Conference, but using past seasons as an indicator he hasn’t ever tapered someone solely for NCAAs. He probably could’ve have tapered either Amundson and/or Hagemeyer for NCAAs during their Junior or Senior year and tried to win the 50 or 100; but Conference was going to be too close and they needed to be on their A-game to win.

      Second, with Jon being such a team oriented coach I can definitely see how Conference appeals to him over Nationals. Conference involves the whole team of almost 90 swimmers at the same time. Even though only 18 men and women actually compete, the majority of the rest of the team comes up to the U to watch. At Nationals, there is typically only half a dozen or so individuals that are competing far away and separately, which basically eliminates the team aspect outside of those who are going.

      Third, I think that the reason everyone tapers for Conference is to achieve National cuts. Due to Gustavus’ lack of participation in a full shave and taper meet in mid-December like Kenyon, Denison, Emory, etc, many of the athletes that end up going to Nationals do not have cuts going in and get their times at Conference. While Gustavus rests during December for Carthage, they do not do a full taper or shave. If you look at Kenyon’s season results, it would appear that they could care less about Conference and use it more like a weekend training opportunity than a high-profile meet.

      I think if Stewart could pull a full shave and taper for Carthage and get solid NCAA cuts, then doing a drop taper and shave for MIACs and focusing on NCAAs is a no-brainer.

      Reactions to your reasons for Stewart to rest:

      I agree that the amount of points he will score will vary very little between a full shave and taper and a drop taper and shave.

      Although my analysis also shows Gustavus being favored at Conference, I also think that it is a little early to tell for sure. I think that after the December rest meets we will be able to much more accurately forecast the MIAC meet. As far as being able to win without Stewart; no way, no how. Stewart means more to the team than points. Stewart’s swims inspire the team to succeed and it would appear that he’s one heck of guy to be around on deck as well. If Stewart’s gone, so is the title.

      Reactions to the double taper:

      JC may have the double taper down, but everyone is different. What tapers one athlete may not fully taper another. The first person to get a swim team to volunteer for a taper study and write a book will be rich. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there are any teams out there willing to train for 9 months, and then only half of them get a taper. Not to mention repeating this multiple times. If you look at the double tapers that have taken place recently, most of his swimmers did do better or hold. Waylander actually improved a considerable amount between a late season taper to make the roster and MIACs. Hagemeyer on the other hand typically seemed to swim the same or slightly slower at NCAAs over MIACs. I wonder if his larger, Bateman-esque stature didn’t have something to do with that.[/i]

    • #40557
      wonderboy33
      Member

      If Jon considers conference to be more important than Nationals, he’s not a good coach and, in fact, he won’t get his “much-needed upgrade” to the the Division 1 Level. As I’ve mentioned in another post, it’s about swimming fast at the end of the season. The end of the season for Stewart is Nationals. He should be tapering solely for Nationals. End of story. Losing to St. Olaf at Conference is secondary to making a big presence at the National Level. I don’t understand this box that some of us are in. Dennis Dale at the U would rather have his swimmers swim fast at the Olympic Trials, not the Big Ten Championships. If conference championships are the goal, and it’s at the expense of Nationals, then the ego needs to be set aside for the sake of the individual swimmer.

    • #40558
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I forgot to mention…I remember competing at Nationals in 1996 where there were about 6 or 7 of us representing our team. Add to that the fact that we had about 10 of our teammates travel just to WATCH US. This group included Speedo Mini-Chub. That’s what I call the team aspect.

    • #40559

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I remember competing at Nationals in 1996 where there were about 6 or 7 of us representing our team. Add to that the fact that we had about 10 of our teammates travel just to WATCH US. This group included Speedo Mini-Chub. That’s what I call the team aspect.

      Where were NCAAs held? If it was in MN or one of the bordering states, that doesn’t really count as a trip…. I’m referring to when the meet was in St. Louis, or Houston, for example.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      If Jon considers conference to be more important than Nationals, he’s not a good coach …

      WOW. Bold thing to say about a coach who has done so much for a program in his time there. I find it really hard to think that caring about the team as a whole and not just your star athletes makes you a bad coach. So what if Conference is what he sets his, and the team’s, sights on? It’s a huge meet, in a very fast facility, and the majority of the team can come and watch. Hardly anything to scoff at.

      And, as Mac said, Jon knows what he’s doing with the double taper for the most part. For the likes of a Matt Stewart, it wouldn’t matter if he tapered every other month for a championship met; he swims fast when it counts. For him, the season never really ends since he just starts training again the day after his shave/taper met, but I would agree that his endgame is NCAAs. Why not do the full shave and taper for Conference, try to win that as a team, break some old records, get your Nat cuts, and then head off to NCAAs to do it all again and do some damage there; albeit on a more individual basis.

      I still maintain that the biggest determining factor in nobody not tapering for MIACs is the lack of solid NCAA cuts beforehand. If you don’t get your cuts in mid-December like the other powerhouses at the national level, you have get them at Conference or you don’t get to go, plain and simple. If you’re cut-less in February, the only way to get to Nats is to shave and taper for Conference, like JC has being doing with his high power athletes for years.

    • #40560

      I figured my Stewart comment would be met with the same reactions people had with talk of Westby not tapering last year.

      I think Jon will taper Stewart for the sole purpose of ensuring he gets some relays to nationals. Without a tapered Stewart, no relay would probably make nats.

      The 200 FR already adds about 1.5 seconds without Amundson and Haggemeyer. Without Stewart tapered, they might not even get a B-cut.

      If someone can show me that any relay will make it without Stewart tapering, then I don’t think he should taper. 800 Free Relay would be close, but would a 6:55-6:57 make it? I don’t know enough about nat cuts (never made one)

      Wonderboy, you swam for a different style team. SJU had about 14 guys total when you swam there… so I question that 10 people showed up to nationals. I’m guessing it was more like 4… Mini-chub, Chaska Bob, Vaske, and Soma. Maybe some more Bennies made it, I could be wrong. But winning conference wasn’t realistic for you guys back then, so preparing for nats was a no-brainer. If Pat Hawes had a chance to knock off Olaf, and win his first conference title, I bet he would have gone all out for that… right or wrong.

      I think Jon should do whatever is best for the team to score best at nats, which happens to coincide with what is best for conference. Which means Stewart will need to taper.

      As for Sky-Dave… I don’t know how distance tapers work. But if he can get a nat cut early, doing a half taper for conference would probably not hurt GACs scoring either.

    • #40561

      No relays will get invited to Nats without Stewart in top shape on them along with his teammates being top game as well.

      As far as distance tapers, for the most you swim the about the same amount of yards over more time. So instead of doing 7k in 1:45 or 2, you’ll do 6k in 2 or 2:15. It was always my experience with distance taper that it never felt like taper until you were at the meet and you knew you didn’t have practice anymore.

    • #40562
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Yes, Bennies entered into the equation. Chaska Bob, Speedo mini-chub, and I believe Vaske and Espy were there. While SJU was a team that I believe got 3rd at conference and outscored both Olaf and Gac at Nationals in 96, I’m not relying on that as my sole reason for the opinion on Stewart and tapering. I’m looking at it from the perspective of a coach who wants kids to be at their best at their final meet. Yes, relays are a consideration so perhaps he could rest for a few days into conference and take care of qualifying the relays. The team aspect is important in the fact that the more kids you have swim their best at their individual final meet, the stronger your team is in general, and the stronger your recruiting becomes. If your perspective is to swim fast at conference, regardless of Nationals, then your recruiting base will stay in Minnesota. If you want to focus on Nationals, then your recruiting base expands. As a general principle, the team and the coach should focus on supporting Stewart if he were to only taper for Nationals. It’s not his fault he’s good, that’s just the way it works. In order for D3 to continue to raise it’s talent level, Nationals should be the focus.

    • #40563
      Monti
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Yes, Bennies entered into the equation. Chaska Bob, Speedo mini-chub, and I believe Vaske and Espy were there. While SJU was a team that I believe got 3rd at conference and outscored both Olaf and Gac at Nationals in 96, I’m not relying on that as my sole reason for the opinion on Stewart and tapering. I’m looking at it from the perspective of a coach who wants kids to be at their best at their final meet. Yes, relays are a consideration so perhaps he could rest for a few days into conference and take care of qualifying the relays. The team aspect is important in the fact that the more kids you have swim their best at their individual final meet, the stronger your team is in general, and the stronger your recruiting becomes. If your perspective is to swim fast at conference, regardless of Nationals, then your recruiting base will stay in Minnesota. If you want to focus on Nationals, then your recruiting base expands. As a general principle, the team and the coach should focus on supporting Stewart if he were to only taper for Nationals. It’s not his fault he’s good, that’s just the way it works. In order for D3 to continue to raise it’s talent level, Nationals should be the focus.

      as a fellow coach, 100% agree.

    • #40564

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      If your perspective is to swim fast at conference, regardless of Nationals, then your recruiting base will stay in Minnesota. If you want to focus on Nationals, then your recruiting base expands.

      I would have to agree with you that performance at the national level has a direct impact on your recruiting base. Looking at the GAC roster, the majority of their team is made up of Minnesotans. A few years ago I think it was 100% MN kids that made up the team. GAC finished 5th last year at NCAAs and they have more out-of-staters this year than any previous year that I can remember.

    • #40565
      caveman12
      Member

      Here are my 2 cents-
      For as long as I have swam against/with Stewart, he has always been considerably faster at his 2nd taper. Tapering for conference, and then retapering for nationals works best for Stewart. He always rises up for the big meets.
      Now the question here is, is it nationals being the bigger meet than conference, or is it the 2nd taper that allows Stewart to swim faster than the 1st. It is an impossible question to answer, but its worked with him in the past, so why change it?

      Second

      Dear wonderboy33,
      Do you honestly think Dennis Dale cares more about his swimmers swimming fast at Olympic trials than Big 10? Thats rediculous, I personally know many swimmers from that team, and they would beg to differ (Maybe his opinions have changed in 10 years, who knows). They have said the sole purpose for training is to big big ten champs. Some of the guys just want nationals to be over so they have time off of swimming. Their main focus is nationals. Also have you seen the results from the past few years of big tens vs nationals? Overall as a team (exceptions, David Plummer and Colin Lee-To but Lee-To doesnt taper well) they swim slow. Another example, this past summer at senior nationals. Other than Wold, Roberts, and Westby; the trend for the team was to not swim their lifetime bests. So I dont know where you came up with a comment like that.

    • #40566

      caveman12,

      In the future you may want to proof your posts before posting them. You contradict yourself a couple times (saying their focus is Big 10s then sayings it’s NCAAs), and it’s full of typos and grammatical errors.

      Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m no stickler for grammar, spelling, or sentence structure. But maybe you could keep your ideas continuous, non-contradictive, and around the junior high level? After reading your post I still have no idea what you were talking about.

    • #40567
      caveman12
      Member

      i sometimes just start typing and thoughts come out, and they dont make sense most of the time, and i hate being grammatically correct when typing (much less effort)

      i read the mistake… yes you caught the contradiction, i meant their focus is big tens, not nationals, ill try to remember to proof read

      note to the future, im not trying to be grammitcally correct on this forum. I have papers where that needs to be done.

    • #40568

      @caveman12 wrote:

      note to the future, im not trying to be grammitcally correct on this forum. I have papers where that needs to be done.

      In that case I’m guessing that either they a) take you weeks on end to write, b) suck as much as your posting on here, or c) get photocopied and handed out in years to come as an example of what not to do.

      Personally, I hope it’s all three.

      But on a serious note, I do see what you mean now about the Gophers team. If you pull up results, they definitely set their focus on Big 10s and not NCAAs. Kinda puts a wrench in your theory if a D1 coach is following this philosophy, eh there wonderboy?

    • #40569

      Whoa, Clydesdale, whoa. Let’s try to remember to respect everyone’s opinions and writing styles, even if you don’t agree with them shall we?

    • #40570
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      As much as Caveman12’s posts offend my English major sensibilities, I’m gonna have to ask you to back off my number one pick. He’s got more important things than grammar to worry about; like making the 800 free relay and not getting mono this year. With hair like that long and thick and not bald, he should be spending all of his time outside of the pool, not being doing proof reading on an internet forum.

    • #40571

      Totally need to back off Caveman12. Firstly, he has bangin’ hair. Secondly, he is a physics major. Dude is too busy doing math without a calculator to bother with his spelling.

      @Retired Clydesdale 1 wrote:

      @caveman12 wrote:

      note to the future, im not trying to be grammitcally correct on this forum. I have papers where that needs to be done.

      In that case I’m guessing that either they a) take you weeks on end to write, b) suck as much as your posting on here, or c) get photocopied and handed out in years to come as an example of what not to do.

      Personally, I hope it’s all three.

      But on a serious note, I do see what you mean now about the Gophers team. If you pull up results, they definitely set their focus on Big 10s and not NCAAs. Kinda puts a wrench in your theory if a D1 coach is following this philosophy, eh there wonderboy?

    • #40572

      Where were NCAAs held? If it was in MN or one of the bordering states, that doesn’t really count as a trip…. I’m referring to when the meet was in St. Louis, or Houston, for example.

      They were in Atlanta, at Emory University. Chapel Partner came to support us, and he brought a banner sponsored by Marlboro. Apparently the powers that be in D3 swimming frown upon smoking, and the banner was taken down 15 minutes after he arrived. Total waste of a 12 hour trip to Georgia.

    • #40573
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Caveman, I suggest you ask Dennis Dale himself as that’s how I got my information. It’s ridiculous to say that a GOOD coach would want their kids to swim fast at the highest meet they are qualified to swim at? Amazing.

    • #40574
      wonderboy33
      Member

      How exactly would you come to the conclusion that the Gophers set their sights on Big 10’s instead of NCAA’s or the Olympic Trials by looking at results?

    • #40575

      Times. From what I saw in a very quick thumb through of results was that times at Big 10s were significantly faster than at Nationals.

      From that I would deduce that either they didn’t care, missed their double taper, missed their first taper, or had a crappy meet. But based on the volume of times that seem to follow this pattern, I assumed that the focus was on Big 10s and not Nationals.

    • #40576
      caveman12
      Member

      wonderboy33,
      i never said DD doesnt want his swimmers to swim fast at big time meets. what i am saying is that their focus is on big tens. i many friends, some involved in swimming and some not. out of the ones involved with swimming, some happen to be current U of M swimmers. one of which i consider one of my closest friends. and focusing on big tens is what their focus is (by what they tell me). the swimmers dont lie. DD is a great coach, i am not denying that. therefore, if his intentions were to focus on nationals, he would make his swimmers believe the same.
      now wonderboy33, you should go to the gopher website (ill even provide it for you) and check out how in general they swim quite a bit faster at big tens than NCAAs. and as for trials, other than plummer, mortimor (sp?), and Wold, i havent seen them having as much success at LCM than they do at SCY.

      http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8400&KEY=&SPID=3275&SPSID=38573

      now, is this enough evidence for you or should i have one of them email or call you.

      (i actually am writing a paper right now so i wrote this quick to take my mind off it, please excuse any typo or grammatical error i probably made)

    • #40577

      (i actually am writing a paper right now so i wrote this quick to take my mind off it, please excuse any typo or grammatical error i probably made)

      Parenthetically, you are excused.

    • #40578
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Caveman, let’s go back to my original post. I said that Dennis Dale would rather have his swimmers swim fast at the Olympic Trials than the Big Ten Championships. I didn’t ask for you to try and prove this wrong by pointing to the results of Big Ten vs. NCAA’s. I am telling you what came out of Dennis Dale’s mouth, regardless of the results of any meet. You don’t know if each particular swimmer was resting for one meet over the other, if they swam badly, or in particular what meet they were focused on.

      Don’t try to tell me how many swimmers you know, I’ve been around longer than you and I know much more about swimming, coaching, or bagging chicks than you do. Do me a favor and start visualizing how fast you’re going to swim at conference this year. And while you’re at it, you call your friends and ask them if they would rather swim their best at the Olympic Trials or the Big Ten Championships. I don’t need e-mails, just an informal poll will be sufficient.

    • #40579

      E-Man, I drove to the dirty Lou, not the Atlanta meet. Drive was still 12 hours though I think. Maybe it just felt that long because Crunchy Sock’s ex-GF was with me.

      Note: After the meet you and Marshall made me sleep on the floor in your hotel room since you said “I didn’t earn a right to sleep in the bed.” Dick.

      And yes, the NCAA hates smoking I guess. Also dicks.

      As for Wonderboy and Caveman…

      I think it is a gray area. Every year and guy is different. I argued it would be stupid to have Westby taper for conference last year. He did (I think), and then still won nationals. If he wouldn’t have tapered for nats could he have broken some records or won the fly or something? Doubt it… he probably would have broke those records at the MIAC meet if that was the case.

      I can’t speak for Dennis Dale (couldn’t pick the guy out of a line-up… I’m strictly D3).

      I think nationals are important, but depending on the year, winning conference could be more important. Like I am sure Jon would count beating Olaf for the first time at conference as the best meet of his life… if Stewart wins nats in an event, would it top that meet? Doubt it.

      But if Stewart won nats this year at the expense of GAC losing conference by one point, would Jon regret not fully tapering him? Doubt it.

      Bottom line, Jon is crazy like a fox… he might put Stewart in the breast at conference, or Wakefield in distance events, or tell the guys to wrestle each other, or spit on a weight lifting machine….

    • #40580

      Note: After the meet you and Marshall made me sleep on the floor in your hotel room since you said “I didn’t earn a right to sleep in the bed.” Dick.

      I stand behind this decision. You are still unworthy of a bed. Perhaps in another 10 years I will reverse my decision.

    • #40581
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Chapel, I think you’re right, I’m sure Jon would count beating Olaf for the first time as one of his best meets. It’s true that the conference meet can be exciting for all involved as it’s a smaller atmosphere and the entire team is there cheering you on. Having said that, it’s not about how Jon feels about beating Olaf. I believe that he wouldn’t particularly care if he lost conference by 1 point and went on to have a fantastic Nationals. That’s why I said he wouldn’t be a good coach for a program of the (D3) power if he felt otherwise. It’s because I am certain that he doesn’t feel that conference is more important.

      I consider Westby’s swims at Nationals to be more important for Westby and Olaf than any swim at conference, regardless of the implications for a conference title. Back to Stewart, if the team needs him to rest in order to qualify relays for Nationals, then so be it. He probably could step up regardless but either way, it’s about qualifying the relays so they can place higher at Nationals.

      Lastly, Mac, next year can we get a celebrity swimmer at the draft that has done something, besides the celebrity that won the poker game? I think the league would gain much more status if that were the case. Perhaps we could get moving on the idea of having the projected first-round picks at the draft, wearing the hat of the team that drafts them.

    • #40582
      caveman12
      Member

      Wonderboy-
      now that i think of it, i think its kinda funny how far off the original topic we got.
      anyways to what i was trying to say. after some thought. i stand from my original saying as to DD believing big tens is more important than nationals. now for trials (apparently your original statement, by the way i also suck at an literature related thing and comprehending what i read is possibly my worst), they are different seasons so its hard to compare. 4 years ago, justin mortimer didnt swim during what should have been his senior year to train with mission viejo in california to try to make the olympic team. with the team they have now, i dont believe anyone can come close to making the squad. plummer has the best chance, but his best shot is 200 back and 2 guys head and shoulders better than anyone else in the world, not to mention 3 if phelps decides to swim it. because of those 2 or 3 guys, i believe he has no shot. DD must have some huge faith in him if he does actual consider trials more important than big tens. but i guess good coaches have to have a lot of faith in their swimmers (and players not just for swimming), so i can see where is was coming from.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      …or bagging chicks than you do…

      what is bagging a chick, is it slang i havent heard before, or is it a new term i havent heard about? im kind of intirgued

    • #40583
      wonderboy33
      Member

      You’re right, this is not going to apply to the vast majority of people as they will be tapering for conference because they either don’t have a shot at making Nationals or they need to taper to make Nationals. For the select few though, a single taper for Nationals would be desirable to a double taper. The results that show kids swimming faster at conference than nationals is more the norm due to the fact that most of them have to taper twice. If Westby or Stewart are able to taper solely for Nationals, that is what they should do. They would most likely be more successful with a single taper. Having said that, there are exceptions, and plenty of them. Oh, and scratch “bagging chicks”. I meant clubbing.

    • #40584

      JC wants to win every meet. He’s the most competitive person I’ve met. To be clear, though, his goal is to win D3 nationals in swimming. 10:1 says he thought he could do it last year, and thinks he can do it this year.

      As for celebrity swimmers at the draft, it doesn’t get much better than the two representatives we had. Don’t forget that Dave Cameron also showed up. Dude swims across the English Channel like every year.

      Having said all that, Mac of the MIAC is all about street cred. My doors are open, and I’d be delighted to have Matt Stewart, Ted Marschall, or Nelson Westby join us for the Mac of the MIAC Fantasy Invitational this January.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Chapel, I think you’re right, I’m sure Jon would count beating Olaf for the first time as one of his best meets. It’s true that the conference meet can be exciting for all involved as it’s a smaller atmosphere and the entire team is there cheering you on. Having said that, it’s not about how Jon feels about beating Olaf. I believe that he wouldn’t particularly care if he lost conference by 1 point and went on to have a fantastic Nationals. That’s why I said he wouldn’t be a good coach for a program of the (D3) power if he felt otherwise. It’s because I am certain that he doesn’t feel that conference is more important.

      I consider Westby’s swims at Nationals to be more important for Westby and Olaf than any swim at conference, regardless of the implications for a conference title. Back to Stewart, if the team needs him to rest in order to qualify relays for Nationals, then so be it. He probably could step up regardless but either way, it’s about qualifying the relays so they can place higher at Nationals.

      Lastly, Mac, next year can we get a celebrity swimmer at the draft that has done something, besides the celebrity that won the poker game? I think the league would gain much more status if that were the case. Perhaps we could get moving on the idea of having the projected first-round picks at the draft, wearing the hat of the team that drafts them.

    • #40585

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      10:1 says he thought he could do it last year, and thinks he can do it this year.

      Gustavus over Kenyon at NCAAs. Now that would be an upset that wouldn’t be forgotten in the swimming community for a long time, if ever.

    • #40586

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      10:1 says he thought he could do it last year, and thinks he can do it this year.

      Gustavus over Kenyon at NCAAs. Now that would be an upset that wouldn’t be forgotten in the swimming community for a long time, if ever.

      JC also believes if he can roll it he can lift it.

    • #40587

      Gold. I really dig JC. Best JC memory that I can write without fearing deletion is him telling the 400 free relay at nats that if we won the console heat, that he would steal the first place trophy, run to a waiting van, and meet us at the hotel to celebrate. He was completely serious, as I remember him telling E-man’s revenge to warm up the van. I could see him stretching out in front of the trophy right before we swam.

      I think we took 14th or something. But he totally would have stole it.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      JC also believes if he can roll it he can lift it.

    • #40588
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Last thing on the Conference or Big Tens vs. Nationals debate (I know, I’m sick of the issue too). You CAN’T look at the results of a conference meet vs. the results of a National Meet and decipher the focus of a team. The Gophers swim fast (and perhaps faster than Nationals) at Big Tens for a couple of reasons. First, Rustie Gustie was right about the team aspect of the conference meet. It does help to have your team there cheering you on. Plus, Dennis asks them to step up and swim fast as a team. Secondly, it’s much easier to swim fast at Big Tens, where you’re actually winning events, than it is to then go to Nationals and get lapped by Auburn.

    • #40589
      caveman12
      Member

      seriously just drop it, you are making less sense than my russian speaking math prof.

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      …Plus, Dennis asks them to step up and swim fast as a team. Secondly, it’s much easier to swim fast at Big Tens, where you’re actually winning events, than it is to then go to Nationals and get lapped by Auburn…

      the first sentence, i dont see how that doesnt imply big tens arent bigger. and the second, the only event the gophers won was the 400 FR. other than that they won nothing, or really even come close. check the results and get your facts straight.

    • #40590
      caveman12
      Member

      just something to think about…

      if their focus is NCAAs, and they swim considerably slower… what does that tell you about DD’s coaching abilities?

    • #40591
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Cavemen, I’ll speak really s-l-o-w-l-y here. I didn’t realize I’d have to dumb it down for a college student but I guess by the quality of your english, athletics have really been a godsend for you. Dennis wants his kids to swim fast no matter what, regardless of the meet. He wants them to step up, in that Big Ten team atmosphere and swim fast, even if he has some of them looking toward Nationals.

      In an earlier post, I conceded that the majority of the kids swim faster at Big Tens because they HAVE TO TAPER TO MAKE NATIONALS. Have you seen the cuts? How many kids would be able to make them without being tapered? Again, the results don’t indicate the focus of a team.

      Did they place higher at Big Tens vs. Nationals? Did they get lapped at Big Tens? Were they getting lapped by Auburn at Nationals? Caveman, you infer that Dennis Dale is an inferior coach due to the results you have pointed out? What would your friends say? Stupid.

    • #40592
      wonderboy33
      Member

      CavemAn, I’m speaking in generalities. Yes, you can point to a specific season and see that perhaps there were not many wins for the Gophers. Having said that, they are always in the mix at Big Tens year after year and they’ve had many, many wins. Not to mention the overall titles they’ve won. I think if you look at Dennis Dale’s resume, he’s perhaps done more for the Gophers than any coach has done with any program in the history of Minnesota Swimming. Now, this issue is dead. You’re dead to me as well.

    • #40593
      caveman12
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      …You’re dead to me as well.

      oh no, im distraught 🙁 …

      this is a waste of time and got more important things to do than argue with low-life idiots who dont know s__t. this is my last point regarding this topic.

      i didnt mean to say DD was a bad coach, just trying to prove my point a lil more because everyone knows hes a great coach.

      one of my earlier posts stated how the team (swimmers) consider big tens more important. how ignorant can you be that you dont believe that they consider big tens more important if they have said so themselves.

      good one, wonderboy, i applaud your attempt, but you are dead wrong.

      case CLOSED

    • #40594

      Are you two going to stop bickering like a old married couple anytime soon? If sure hope so, before this topic needs to be locked.

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