MIAA Weekend

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    • #12057
      silentp
      Member

      Great and VERY fast meet between Hope and K. Here is what i thought:

      Medlies are both tough and would hold their own against almost anyone in the country right now, except Hopkins.

      James Richardson was flat out impressive. 2 great swims for him in wins, big wins, for Hope. We’ll see how he develops.

      Kzoo isn’t so good at the 200 free, Hope looked solid, especially when comparing to last year.

      100 back saw 2 very impressive times, then the large drop off. Still 2 great backstrokers in the MIAA for years to come.

      Booms showed his racing spirit with 2 great swims. Espinosa showed us a little something in the 2breast finally, give him someone to race and i think he could be under 2:10 right now. King and Booms should have a good 100 breast race, perhaps not as close in the 200.

      Strong 50 performance finally by a K guy, nice to see. Hope is extremely deep in this event. Have to wonder which of them will get to swim it at conferences, they will be knocking each other out right now.

      Rose’s 100 was one of the most impressive swims of the meet. We’ll see how he tapers, but that’s very fast right now. CVB also looked good, Hennigar’s 50.0 actually isn’t too bad, especially for 4th.

      Heyboer’s 1:56 i figured to be impressive nationally, until i saw he would have been something like 6th at the CMU Invite. Still a great time for right now.

      Dekker’s early speed for the fly is impressive, but what happened in that IM? Will he do the 100 fly come conference time? It has to be a consideration right now.

      Good swim for Brian Collins almost outtouching Dekker in the IM.

      Great job for Hope in the 200 FR, quick for right now and up there with some of the best in the country (minus W & L, who “wasn’t” rested for this weekend and went 1:24.0… yeah, i’ll believe that if they go under 1:22 this year).

      Both Hope and K looked tired in their next day meets. To be expected at this point in the year. Nothing too exciting out of the Olivet/Calvin dual that i saw.

      What did anyone else think?

    • #31573
      Stevo
      Member

      I agree that the meet was a good one. Here are a couple of my initial thoughts (no being at the meet)

      Richardsons 1000 and 500, his best 500 before friday was 5:02. He is one of those guys that is a pleasant surprise, and hopefully will continue to improve

      Matt Rose- Had a very good weekend, splitting 47.4 on saturday was the most impressive swim. For the second meet of the weekend, last event, that is very encouraging, he is the real deal.

      I was suprised that Dekker had such a solid 100 fly and not that solid of a 200IM. Great swim from him in the fly, it will be interesting to see if he swims that event at MIAA’s

      Hope’s 200 free relay- The depth of the sprinters is pretty unreal. They have a lot of options, and it will be fun to see what Patnott comes up with in February.

      Some saturday swims that were impressive for Hope, Mitch Ruch going 56.4 in the 100 back, and 2:02 in the 200 back, both great swims for him

      Heyboers 4:13 in the 400 IM. When the winning time last year at MIAA’s was 4:10 and that was Heyboer’s last swim of the weekend, i’ll take that.

      What i think is impressive right now is if you look at Hope’s season best performances the only upperclassmen that has the fastest time in an event is Chaz in the 50 free (21.7) leading off the 200 FR. Every other best performance is a freshman. That is very promising. You know the gardners, engers, holtons, waterstones will show up at the end of the year, so to see the freshman swimming well at this point in the season is a good sign for Hope!

    • #31574
      stewie
      Member

      Other notables from other meets…

      Cal
      Tole- 1:47 2fr, 2:00 2 fly
      3:16 4fr- Ress, JBG, Bolles, Tuuk
      Conrad- 10:17

      Olivet
      Meisner-2:03 2 fly
      Koji- 2:01 2 fly
      Yury- 1:46 2 fr, 1:58 IM
      Key- 1:00 1 br, 2:14 2 br
      Fetters- 25.2 lead off (back), 53.6 fly, 22.1 50 fr

    • #31575
      Derek
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      Other notables from other meets…

      Cal
      Tole- 1:47 2fr, 2:00 2 fly
      3:16 4fr- Ress, JBG, Bolles, Tuuk
      Conrad- 10:17

      Olivet
      Meisner-2:03 2 fly
      Koji- 2:01 2 fly
      Yury- 1:46 2 fr, 1:58 IM
      Key- 1:00 1 br, 2:14 2 br
      Fetters- 25.2 lead off (back), 53.6 fly, 22.1 50 fr

      Stewie, with no offense, those times aren’t THAT notable. Some are, but really I would only pick one as a talking point: Key’s 200 breast. The other ones are mentionable, not really notable. Is Key gonna taper with the best of them and could Olivet have two guys in the top 3 in the 200 breast? Will Kalamazoo break that up? (Booms?)

      Also, the 2:00 200 fly is interesting because if he was tired, that could translate into a very fast swim at the end of the year. But, I was 2:00 in the fly in season my sophomore year and I’m not sure if I broke 1:58 tapered that year.

    • #31576
      facenorth
      Member

      Derek wrote:

      stewie wrote:
      Other notables from other meets…

      Cal
      Tole- 1:47 2fr, 2:00 2 fly
      3:16 4fr- Ress, JBG, Bolles, Tuuk
      Conrad- 10:17

      Olivet
      Meisner-2:03 2 fly
      Koji- 2:01 2 fly
      Yury- 1:46 2 fr, 1:58 IM
      Key- 1:00 1 br, 2:14 2 br
      Fetters- 25.2 lead off (back), 53.6 fly, 22.1 50 fr

      Stewie, with no offense, those times aren’t THAT notable. Some are, but really I would only pick one as a talking point: Key’s 200 breast. The other ones are mentionable, not really notable. Is Key gonna taper with the best of them and could Olivet have two guys in the top 3 in the 200 breast? Will Kalamazoo break that up? (Booms?)

      Also, the 2:00 200 fly is interesting because if he was tired, that could translate into a very fast swim at the end of the year. But, I was 2:00 in the fly in season my sophomore year and I’m not sure if I broke 1:58 tapered that year.

      Derek, I’m with Stewie on this. Fetters was 25.2, his PR is 25.15. In my opinion .05 off a PR is notable. Key was 1:00.low. Not too shabby for a guy that has only been under the minute barrier all of twice in his life. His 2 breast was also very solid. Yury was a 1:46, to our knowledge his PR, equals what he went last year. Toll in the 2 free at 1:47 is pretty good for PR of 1:44. I also thnk 3:16 on their 400 Free Relay is very impressive from Calvin right now, especially considering that Bolles was on it. I know he was down in the 48s last year at the end of the year (I think), so considering they’re a 3:16 right now, nice work.

      Thanks for posting Stewie, keep it up. I am always in favor of reading some insights and topics at hand. Keep the posts coming!

      I am wondering if anyone knows what happened to Mitch Powers in the 100 Free. I have heard he has some pretty serious asthma, he was out in 23 low at the 50 and then was DQed. I hope he’s alright, he is off to a great start this year.

    • #31577
      Derek
      Member

      Excuse me for cutting our much of what you wrote to get to my point:

      @facenorth wrote:

      Derek, I’m with Stewie on this. […] his PR. […] In my opinion .05 off a PR is notable. Key was 1:00.low. Not too shabby for a guy that has only been under the minute barrier all of twice in his life. […] his PR […] good for PR of 1:44. […] I also thnk 3:16 on their 400 Free Relay is very impressive from Calvin right now, especially considering that Bolles was on it. I know he was down in the 48s last year at the end of the year (I think), so considering they’re a 3:16 right now, nice work.

      You seem to have qualified everything by relating it to a PR. Honestly, at this point I think that we can start saying that PRs are cool, but so what? PRs in season are mentionable, not notable. Unless you mean that they are notable because the guy is going to have a great year (which is cool and worth a mention).

      I just think that if we want to call a time notable, then make it noteworthy. Maybe its about semantics, but I’d rather see us talking about Heyboer’s 2:12 in the 200 breast (now THAT was noteworthy!) than about the fact that Bolles was on Calvin’s 3:16. 3:16 is averaging 49s, which in the final analysis isn’t that quick. Yeah, it’s cool for Calvin and we can give them a pat on the back for it, but Olivet and Hope were 3:13.6 and 3:14.5 against each other. I like Calvin as much as the next guy, but if we’re talking about notable swims let’s talk about ones that at least match up in our own conference.

    • #31578
      facenorth
      Member

      Well, I suppose we could start by defining what is notable and what is mentionable? Our views what is notable slightly vary, obviously. Not that it matters, it really doesn’t.

      I still say props to Stewie for trying to get some talk going, whether this is what he had in mind or not…it worked.

      I know a ton of current guys read these forums, I am suprised we don’t hear more about other schools. We always hear from Hope and K alum. Some great things are happening around the MIAA right now but 99% of the posters have a bias one of two ways.

      Sixbags, where you been? Calvin had a great weekend, let’s hear your insights!

    • #31579

      @Derek wrote:

      I like Calvin as much as the next guy, but if we’re talking about notable swims let’s talk about ones that at least match up in our own conference.

      Just wanted to point out that I don’t like Calvin at all.

      @FaceNorth wrote:

      Sixbags, where you been? Calvin had a great weekend, let’s hear your insights!

      I too would love to hear what SixBags has to say. Based on Calvin’s 3:16 I don’t see why SixBags won’t predict a 3:02, that’s only a four second drop per leg. And Toll should be a 1:39 and 1:52 based on his early season swims.

    • #31580
      Derek
      Member

      @Billy Gilmore wrote:

      @SilentP wrote:

      I like Calvin as much as the next guy, but if we’re talking about notable swims let’s talk about ones that at least match up in our own conference.

      You totally just attributed my quote to SilentP. What the heck, man!

    • #31581
      stiles
      Member

      @Derek wrote:

      I like Calvin as much as the next guy

      I strongly dislike. And I undoubtedly like them LESS than the next guy.

      In regards to this weekend. I must say that I agree with Stewie in the fac that 3:16 for Cal is pretty decent, relative to the MIAA and their team. If you add Toll you are looking at a possible second off their time and puts them in the race…sort of.

      The OC is still looking strong…It is goign to take a lot to beat them

      I mainly wanted to post jsut to talk about my dislike for Calvin.

    • #31582

      @Stiles wrote:

      I strongly dislike. And I undoubtedly like them LESS than the next guy.

      I again wanted to echo your sentiments. I propose I like them even less than you, Stiles.

    • #31583
      maverick1
      Member

      i think that the 3:16 from calvin puts them on track to have a good year in the 400 free relay, if they continue to drop times and get fit….it looks like jbg is a little bit behind the other guys on that relay….he was 47.0 in the open 100free last year and should be in the mid 48 range, untapered, by the mid season meet if these guys want to be looking at going to nats and winning miaas in the event.

      Olivet really looks good, but random as hell. Powers was much slower and dqed in the 100 free, B. Jaffee had a terrible 1000 in comparison to his 100, aguirre was ok. But on the other hand, yuri is on fire. If they are training hard and taper well, i see all the other teams having a very difficult time beating them at miaas……kzoo and hope will undoubtedly beat them at nationals though.

    • #31584
      silentp
      Member

      Why the hate for Calvin? Calvin is last in my list of hated teams:

      Hope (it’s a rivalry thing, but there’s respect)
      Olivet (it’s a “student”-athlete thing)
      Albion (they have a 3 practice per week requirement)
      Calvin

      Either way you look at it, Calvin will be up there come conferences whether Hope swimmers and ex-swimmers want them to be or not. Not up there for a team title, but their free relays all have a shot. Last time i checked, dual meet results from November didn’t have any influence or weight on the outcome of MIAAs in February. If they did, K would have never put anyone into NCAAs over the past 3 years.

    • #31585

      @silentp wrote:

      Why the hate for Calvin? Calvin is last in my list of hated teams:

      Hope (it’s a rivalry thing, but there’s respect)
      Olivet (it’s a “student”-athlete thing)
      Albion (they have a 3 practice per week requirement)
      Calvin

      Okay, there is obviously some difference in opinion from different people at each school, but my list looks like this…

      Calvin (i don’t think this one needs explanation)
      ZOO (“it’s a rivalry thing, but there’s respect”)
      Wheaton (just never liked them)
      Olivet
      Albion

    • #31586
      Stevo
      Member

      Well if we’re doing the list here you go.

      Zoo (I had a bad taste in my mouth from the first time i met the rep when i was a senior in HS, and they were dominant when i came to hope)
      Calvin (not from west michigan so the hatred isn’t as strong)
      Olivet (this is more from current situations, my class never lost to Olivet)
      Albion (no real beef, they don’t really take it seriously, Fodell was crazy)
      Alma (gotta put them on here, i had to swim the 1000 my senior year against Alma, i expected to cruise to a win, but some unknown guy made me work for it, and it sucked….thanks coach)

      Back to the topic, i agree with every argument in some ways. I agree with Moderator Jansen that 3:16 is mediocre, i agree with silentp that November doesn’t mean anything, and I agree with facenorth that it is nice to hear solid performances from other schools besides K and Hope. But is Sixbags has an opinion i probably wouldn’t agree with him.

    • #31587
      maverick1
      Member

      hmmmm, i like to make lists but only two teams would make my list because i was indifferent to the others

      1. Hope – It’s a rivalry thing
      2. Olivet – a lot of the team was classless when they beat us at miaas my senior year

      i do believe it’s ok and nice to celebrate, but i think we had a discussion a long time ago about the meet and about their celebration…..the 2005 meet was the only time that i’ve ever heard of the runner-up team celebrating that much and the way that some kids did it (tall diver guy especially) was ridiculous.

      i just looked back at the results of hope v K from the 2001-2002 season and i definitely showed you hms guys what’s up in the 50 free one of the only times i swan it in college.

    • #31588
      miller
      Member

      Calvin 3:16

      That should be on signs in the stands at their next meets.

    • #31589
      el radio
      Member

      1. Olivet – Hate ’em…they’re classless and they dont show respect for anyone. I think Andy “Ass-Clown” Weiss defines classless for that team
      2. K-zoo i never really disliked them, but because they are a rival team…I dislike them
      3. Calvin…who cares
      4. Albion…they make me laugh
      E. Alma…see #3

      To cover a point of Silentp’s I believe that Rose has nothing to worry about. yes he swam incredibly well this weekend and i think he will continue to do so for the rest of the season. Logic? Look at Kurt Blohm he was always (with the exception of a few times) fast in season, and he only got faster by the end…Now i am not saying that Rose is gonna be another pancho (speed wise) I just believe that he will be dropping time lots of time at league meet regardless of how he swims in season.

      I only say this b/c i can sense silentp has some doubt about how rose will swim at the end of the year, because of the times posted this past weekend…and i know there are some people out there that can agree with my statement…mainly hope people

    • #31590
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      Yeah radio is right. Rose is legit. He works hard and swims fast in meets. He could be scary this year.

    • #31591
      silentp
      Member

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      Yeah radio is right. Rose is legit. He works hard and swims fast in meets. He could be scary this year.

      Well, if that’s the case then of course he’ll be amazing! πŸ˜‰ Thanks for the info. But seriously, he is going to be a good swimmer, i am just waiting until he tapers to see how good. Jud would go 1:42 in the 2nd or 3rd meet of the year, then drop to 1:40 at leagues, then back up at NCAAs. Even that being said, i’d be surprised not to see him under 47 come taper, i’d predict 46-mid.

    • #31592
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I think the swimmers from Hope are homophobic, narrow-minded, inbreeds. Except for the guys I actually know. They are pretty cool.

      The folks at Olivet, I don’t know them at all, but I am sure they are all assholes.

      The other schools, Clavin, Albion, hmm what’s the one I am misssing? I kind of lump them together. And by “lump” I mean like “lump of crap.”

    • #31593
      Stevo
      Member

      I think the swimmers from Hope are homophobic, narrow-minded, inbreeds. Except for the guys I actually know. They are pretty cool.

      That would make the zoo swimmers homo-loving, free spirited, hippies in the eyes of a Hope swimmer, right?

      Cheadle am i pretty cool, or a homophobic, narrow-minded, imbreed?

      All in good fun,

      Stevo

    • #31594

      Because you make a blanket statement in calling a team gay doesn’t make you homophobic. Additionally, just because you went to a school that is a conservative Christian school doesn’t make ALL narrow-minded…although, I’m sure there were narrow-minded individuals. Finally, if the people you don’t know are imbreeds, shouldn’t a K Alum like yourself be “open-minded” towards that? I think that would make individuals you have the same “opinion” narrow-minded, imbreedphobic, and douchebags!

      My list:

      Calvin: anyone that urinates in your sauna and comes out in a dual meet with mops and buckets places them immediately at the top of the list. I mean, it is one thing if they would have won.
      Kzoo: bc they were just as arrogant than any team I ever saw…jumping off the diving boards like 2-year olds and talk about disrespect when they hung up a banner that read “never ever again!” or something like that. Very comparable to Olivet’s disrespect. Although, that was “inside the pool” and outside the pool there has been nothing but respect from what I’ve witnessed.
      I don’t care about the rest.

    • #31595
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      The fact you both do not even know how to spell iNbreed certainly points to the latter.

    • #31596

      The fact you both do not even know how to spell iNbreed certainly points to the latter.

      Which reaffirms that douchebag fits you equally as well for pointing out spelling errors in an online forum.

    • #31597
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I am open-minded, so I don’t have a problem with inbreeds.

      Nah, it was all in good fun.

    • #31598
      teemohtay
      Member

      my list looks like this:

      1) Hope
      2) Hope
      3) Hope
      4) Hope
      5) Hope
      6) everyone else.

      wonder why Kzoo isn’t #1 on most Hope lists. what can we do to make you guys hate us more?

    • #31599
      el radio
      Member

      @Derek wrote:

      PRs in season are mentionable, not notable. Unless you mean that they are notable because the guy is going to have a great year (which is cool and worth a mention).

      What the hell is that supposed to mean..PRs are mentionable not notable?…if you are mentioning it…then it is being noted. Try to agree on the language that we use.

      and speaking of “mentionable” how is Hennigar’s 50.0 even worthy of mentioning? Rose goes 47.9, but apparently PRs mean nothing, but when Hennigar goes a 50.0 it “apparently isn’t too bad”…get real

    • #31600
      Stevo
      Member

      Vazzy I figured i would bring you into this conversation….haha.

    • #31601
      Stevo
      Member

      Munky boye, maike sur ur speling iz allways perfekt

    • #31602
      Milhouse
      Member

      @miller wrote:

      Calvin 3:16

      That should be on signs in the stands at their next meets.

      Calvin 3:16 would just be a blatant ripoff of Stover 3:16.

    • #31603
      SixBags
      Member

      Hope-I only know a few of them and the few I know are either nice guys or wanna be frat brothers. I don’t understand the team tanning trips, but I guess it’s a way for them to get closer as a team. The way I picture it, what better way to get closer to each other physically than to rub each other down with tanning oil and admire each other’s sticker tatoos.
      Albion-I flipped out at dancho once, I guess that’s what started it. It was fun beating them every year.
      The rest of the MIAA is fine. I can’t say much about Olivet, somehow they went from 2 divers and 3 swimmers to MIAA champs. Give credit to a coach that brought in fast swimmers to a school that doesn’t have much happening.
      Kzoo-My only biff with you is that you were the only school to keep producing I.M.ers.

      My prediction for Friday. Calvin Men 316 to Hope’s 89. I am a bit disappointed with Calvin’s start this season. Someone needs to light a fire in this team. The times posted so far don’t cut it for me, they need to come out for every race and prove themselves. Meet on Friday will be a good test. I will also be cheering on my fiancee as well. No one mentioned that she broke her 1000 record at Olivet by 8 seconds. Becky is the fastest swimmer that the MIAA will ever see, hands down. Go Calvin.

    • #31604
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      not true sexbags. fastest girl, i would agree, but not fastest swimmer ever guys and girls. to many guy studs like Peel for his time and so on.

    • #31605
      maverick1
      Member

      why not use boss instead of peel as your example….peel was a hell of a swimmer but got much better when he wasn’t an miaa athlete….therefore i’d still put becky ahead of him. But boss, the man dominated the breaststrokes and still has the nat records, if becky still holds some nat records 4 years after graduation then i’d say there can be some comparison.

    • #31606
      silentp
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      why not use boss instead of peel as your example….peel was a hell of a swimmer but got much better when he wasn’t an miaa athlete….therefore i’d still put becky ahead of him. But boss, the man dominated the breaststrokes and still has the nat records, if becky still holds some nat records 4 years after graduation then i’d say there can be some comparison.

      Agreed, Peel was not as good as Becky is now, but Boss was better, until Becky gets a 2nd NCAA Record, if and when that happens, we can discuss. Gorton could also be put into the argument, above Peel (in college) but below Boss… right now, i’d put him ahead of Becky. This is, however, only if we say swimmers and divers instead of just swimmers.

      Becky is probably the fastest female MIAA swimmer ever though, just beating out VandenBerg, in my opinion.

    • #31607
      TheDon
      Member

      Don’t forget Shelly Russell from Hope in the late 80’s. She won the 500 three years in a row, the 1650 two years in a row, tied for 1st in the 200 junior year and won it her senior year. Several of those swims were national record setting. Two 3rds and a 7th as a freshman.

    • #31608
      Old Man
      Member

      I don’t know much past MIAA history. Was Peel strong in other distances and/or strokes other than the 50 free?

      Also how about Boss. Obviously, his breaststroke was great, but what about I.M. or others.

      I think any discussion about best ever, should also take into account success in multiple strokes, events, distances, etc.

    • #31609
      TheAnswer
      Member

      Best ever or best all around ever? Josh Boss would be the best ever. Period. Just like Michael Jordan would be the best bball player ever. But if you’re looking for versatility then you are making an entirely different argument because I think few people would take Magic Johnson over Michael Jordan and to me, that is the argument you are trying to make.

      Peel was a great swimmer 45.5 and 1:40 in the freestyles. I believe he also was 4:45 and under 10:00 in duals. Not bad for the 1980’s. Are you going to sit here and fault Josh Boss because he wasn’t a great IMer? If that is the case then Dan Knapp is probably the best Hope Men’s Swimmer ever. How many people would say Knapper was better than Batman or Face? Not I. Nick Duda was a hell of a swimmer too but I wouldn’t take his wealth of events over Gorton’s two. That’s just me though. Maybe it’s just my Hope bias but I would also take Shelly Russell over Becky Weima. So to Sixbags, in my own humble opinion Becky will not be the best swimmer in ever in the MIAA, past or future (present, yes) because of the likes of people like Jeff Gorton and Josh Boss. I also don’t see her as the best female ever because of Shelly Russell. I realize how difficult it is for many of you to compare times of yesteryear to those of today. But Shelly set at least two national records in her time at Hope. She was also the first woman under 5:00 in the 500 and the first under 17:00 in the mile. When Becky graduates, I suspect that Shelly will be more decorated. Not taking anything away from Becky, she is an amazing swimmer and from what I have heard, a very gracious young lady, I am simply replying to her biased significant other’s comment.

    • #31610
      silentp
      Member

      If the part about multiple NCAA records is true, i’ll take Shelly as the best swimmer (men or women) in MIAA history, followed closely by Boss, followed closely by Gorton (if we’re talking divers also). After that, it’s pretty open.

    • #31611
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Shelly Russell set those records at the period of time when D3 womens swimming was at its’ lowest. When Russell went a 4:58 there were other women going 4:38. I doubt that her 4:58 was even a senior cut at that time. I know that it is 9 seconds off right now. SO I will give the nod to Weima, thoug Weima herself BARELY has a senior cut. She has the 200 free by .07

      Comparing Weima to Boss is silly. On a national level (not D3) Brett Robbins is more accomplished than Weima.

    • #31612
      Milhouse
      Member

      Comparing Weima to Boss or Robbins is silly because Weima is still swimming. Once her career is over and done with, then we can begin to make fair comparaisons.

    • #31613
      Waldo
      Member

      I think peel’s post MIAA times can be used when asking who is the fastest swimmer the MIAA has ever seen. He may not have been the best MIAA college swimmer, but the fastest swimmer to have competed in the MIAA is a different story. When looking at an athletes legacy you look at thier entire career, swimming is no different. IF thats the case peel takes it hands down as far as national level (again not D3) performances.

    • #31614
      stiles
      Member

      It is not logical to put Becky in the greatest MIAA swimmer/diver talk yet. To be honest, I think the only names that you can really throw out are Gorton, Peel, and Boss on the guys side. ON the lady’s side, my history is not as good but I am pretty sure Shelly Russell is topping the list.

      The breast records are still there. Face graduated in 2002. I don’t know that anyone else can say that they have held a national record for that long. Also, Face was the first and only person EVER under 2:00 in the breast. I remember wehn Zarins first came on the seen, same thing with Joey G., everyone thoguht those records will go down, but no one can get close. Peel was outstanding for his time and Gorton was dominant on the boards when he was there as well.

      For Becky, she has a year of work to do. If you want to say she is the best now, there is simply no way. She is about .4 off the record in the 50 and more than 1.5 in the 100. She snatched (no pun intended) the 200 but a few hunrdeths, but that surely doesn’t say dominance to me.

      Also, Becky if you are reading this, will you reign in your rogue fiance for making outlandish claims on your behalf?!

      Also, race of the weekend: Hope v. Calvin 400 free relay. Should be a fun one to watch.

      Michigan 21, OSU 13….anyone care to disagree?

    • #31615
      silentp
      Member

      Very well put Stiles. I’d also love to see your score prediction come true, but we’ll see.

      I was going to say that we should take Gorton out, because it’s really not possible to compare Divers with Swimmers, but then i thought, maybe we can’t really compare one genre or stroke with another, so here’s how i broke it down, and obviously everyone may not agree, but here goes:

      Sprinter: Peel
      Distance: Assink
      Backstroke: Nykamp
      Breastroke: Boss
      Butterfly: Walker
      IM: Knoechel
      Best All-Around: Duda

      The last one I don’t know my history well enough, but he was a 52 backstroker, 58 breastroker, 4:01 IMer, 50. split on the fly and 1:42 in the 200 free, so he was my pick.

    • #31616
      DonCheadle
      Member

      When Dan Knapp set Hope’s school record in the 400 IM, he aslo lead off their 200 free relay in a 21.4 He was probably better all around than Duda.

      Peel finished 6th at Olympic Trials, Gorton finished 7th. Because Peel was a sprinter I give the title “Best Performer Ever” to him. But it is not by a long-shot as Stiles suggests.

      Also Stiles wrote that everyone thought that Zarins and Joegy G would break Boss’s records. If you replace “not even their parents and coaches” with “Everyone” then I would agree.

      I’m in Vegas this weekend, and I am betting $20 on Michigan to cover the 6.5 point spread vs OSU. Not sure who will win, but it will be close.

    • #31617

      I’m in Vegas this weekend, and I am betting $20 on Michigan to cover the 6.5 point spread vs OSU. Not sure who will win, but it will be close.

      It’s not going to be close.

    • #31618
      silentp
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      I’m in Vegas this weekend, and I am betting $20 on Michigan to cover the 6.5 point spread vs OSU. Not sure who will win, but it will be close.

      It’s not going to be close.

      I think it will be close, but then again, big games that are hyped up like this, rarely live up to the hype. You have to remember, was it not for preseason polls (which are crap and only done for media purposes) Michigan would be ranked first, since they have played and beaten 2 teams currently in the BCS top 10, while Ohio State has played 0.

    • #31619
      SixBags
      Member

      I guess it’s only fair that we wait till the season is over and see where Becky ends up. My prediction is that she will be the most decorated swimmer in MIAA history, with a couple more Nat records to follow. Did Boss ever win 3 events at Nationals, did he place in the top 6 for 4 years in 3 events at Nationals? Was he the MVP at Nationals? Did he ever lose an event in MIAA duals/conference? Was he able to excel at the national level in more than 2 events? How many individual records does he own at Hope? Boss is the best MIAA breastroker and possibly swimmer in history, I looked it up he was fast.

      Stiles-what is your definition of dominance? How can you not say that Becky has not dominated the MIAA and now Nationals?

    • #31620
      T-Bone
      Member

      When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck No… I mean Becky Weima.

      Becky Weima doesn’t read books. She stares them down until she gets the information she wants.

      There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Becky Weima has allowed to live.

      Outer space exists because it’s afraid to be on the same planet with Becky Weima.

      Becky Weima does not sleep. She waits.

      Becky Weima is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for her left and right legs.

      Becky Weima is the reason why Waldo is hiding.

      Becky Weima counted to infinity – twice.

      When Becky Weima does a pushup, she isn’t lifting herself up, she’s pushing the Earth down.

      Becky Weima is so fast, she can run around the world and punch herself in the back of the head.

      Becky Weima’s hand is the only hand that can beat a Royal Flush.

      There is no such thing as global warming. Becky Weima was cold, so she turned the sun up.

      Becky Weima doesn’t wear a watch, SHE decides what time it is.

      Becky Weima can slam a revolving door.

      Anybody else have any good ones?

    • #31621
      quacker
      Member

      Let’s just hold up on “best ever” until we can distance ourselves from it a little bit. Hindsight will make all things clearer.

      But my vote goes to Boss for the “I can’t believe he’s here, he should be in Division I, he’s ruining d3 swimming” factor that I would hear from parents in the stands at the big meets. The kid dominated.

    • #31622
      Buck
      Member

      Sixbags,

      you keep ranting and raving about “3 events” and you would have a point IF it included a different stroke. The fact is, Weima has done well in freestyle, the one stroke that has more than 2 individual strokes. Also you are questioning how good Boss was with all of your questions, so lets settle this. Boss lost ONE race his entire collegiate career, he was touched out at nationals. Weima is good, Boss was better. Boss will continue to be better until she has the ability to finish top 10 at the DI National Meet. I haven’t “looked it up” if she can, but I’m willing to bet that she couldn’t cut it.

    • #31623
      Stevo
      Member

      you can’t compare a freestyler to a breastroker. Now if Becky won the 100 fly, 200 Im, or something in another stoke then you would have a legit point. You can’t fault Josh for only having 2 breastroke events. If there was a 50 breastroke, he would have won it. Becky has had an incredible career, she has already has one national record and could have two more. or she swims the 50, 500 and 100, and tries to get 4 national records. The bottom line, at this point Josh Boss is still the best swimmer in MIAA history. You can predict the future all you want sixbags, but at this point, it’s just another “if” like your last prediction. But i’ll give you credit this prediction has a better chance of happening than your Calvin 400 FR.

      I bet becky thinks it is so cute that you brag about her on d3swimming.com

    • #31624
      Stevo
      Member

      and captain insano…you keep your ohio BS to a minimum, it is just OSU that sucks, it’s the whole state of ohio!

      Michigan 24 OSU 21

      player of the game: Lamaar Woodley 2 sacks, and a forced fumble

      GO BLUE

    • #31625
      facenorth
      Member

      Stevo – Face lost a couple times in the 200 breast his freshman year. He wasn’t what I would call seasoned in that event before he was at Hope. But on the national scene, you’re right.

      Sixbags – Becky will need to sweep her three events at nationals this year (which could happen) just to tie Shelly Russell in terms of individual national titles. She would also need to set national records in each of them in order to match Shelly’s records – if we’re going to compare apples to apples. She could however, up Shelly in national records if she leads off the 200 Free Relay and establishes a new 50 mark before going on to break the national record in the 500 (which could happen if she swims the 500).
      1987 Shelly Russell, 500 Freestyle*
      1987 Shelly Russell, 1,650 Freestyle*
      1988 Shelly Russell, 200 Freestyle
      1988 Shelly Russell, 500 Freestyle*
      1988 Shelly Russell, 1,650 Freestyle*
      1989 Shelly Russell, 200 Freestyle
      1989 Shelly Russell, 500 Freestyle
      The * indicates when Shelly broke a National Record. 7 National Titles and 4 National Records. Not bad.

      Cheadle – if women’s d3 swimming was so bad in the late 80s (I really don’t know) and it is so much better now, why is the women’s national record only a 4:55 and the mark Shelly set 19 years ago is a 4:56? And why is she still ranked top 10 all time in the 500 (behind another Hope swimmer) and 3rd in the 1650 (according to d3swimming.com’s all time top ten list….thanks Derek)?

      I guess we could always come back on d3swimming.com in the year 2026 and settle this once and for all!

    • #31626
      stiles
      Member

      Dear TeaBag,

      I didn’t say Becky isn’t currently dominating the MIAA and D3 swimming. I don’t remember who said it but bos made people upset because he was so good he should have been swimming D1. I am pretty sure if you are setting national records but a a few hundrehts in the 200, no one is going to say that. Also, what if Becky lays an egg this year and gets slower? I mean, not that something like that would ever happen to a Calvin College Knight. Then we aren’t even having this conversation. Like I said before, you can’t even have this conversation yet. Now I realize that you aren’t go to simply back down and say, “you are right, the girl I am going to marry isn’t as good as I thought she was.” So please, post on, it is fun to read your crazy predictions.

      I assume Stevo was talking about on the national scene minus the 100 that one year.

      Quacker, I appreciate your logical statements.

      Cheadle, when I say “everyone”, I meant that was the general feeling that I got from the people around me and from this forum. I seem to recall someone actually saying the breastroke records are the most likely to go down….however, I am FAR to lazy to look it up.

      SilentP, thanks for the props. I am not used to saying things that people agree with on this forum (outside of Hope bias). At this point, I think I will revert to saying things that spur controversey like, “An education at Kzoo is like a mail order degree program.”

      Ahhh, that felt better.

    • #31627
      maverick1
      Member

      weima is a house though…..she’s one of the top 5 (this is my guesstimate right now) of all males and females to have swam in the miaa.

      russel-currently i’m thinking she’s the top
      boss
      gorton-if divers count
      weima?

    • #31628
      facenorth
      Member

      If we’re looking at all time I have a few that may not have been brought up…

      Dawn Hoving – 5 National Titles (2 Relay –> 1 record)
      Susan Looman – Swam one year, 4 national titles (2 individual -> 1 record, 2 relay –> 1 record)
      Betsy VandenBerg 2 National Titles, 1 record
      Kristen Hoving 2 national titles

    • #31629
      silentp
      Member

      @facenorth wrote:

      Dawn Hoving – 5 National Titles (2 Relay –> 1 record)
      Susan Looman – Swam one year, 4 national titles (2 individual -> 1 record, 2 relay –> 1 record)
      Betsy VandenBerg 2 National Titles, 1 record
      Dawn Hoving 3 national titles

      2 swimmers named Dawn Hoving? I am confused.

      The women’s 500 record blows, always has, so i don’t know if we can use that to compare. For instance, if someone goes a 1:02 in the breast, which is still 2 seconds off the NCAA record for D3, it’s still more impressive than breaking the NCAA record in the 500, but let’s be honest, what would you rather do?

      Boss was probably getting the same thing form certain parents that the entire Kenyon team gets every year. Boss “probably” would have lost 2 races had Aaron Cole not been cocky and tried the 100 fly, 100 breast combo. Cole does have the fastest 100 breast split in D3 history, and gave him a heck of a race still tired from his fly swim. Also, as for the 50 breast, i think Cole has to be the best 50 breastroker in D3 history. Not taking anything away from Boss though, just saying. Boss may have had people in the MIAA saying he should be D1, but his records aren’t the best D3 records, so unless they are unaware fans (which is likely), they wouldn’t be saying it at NCAAs.

      Men and women can’t really be compared, ESPECIALLY today, just look at the number of men’s teams in D1 compared to women, that alone makes a huge impact.

    • #31630
      Stevo
      Member

      facenorth- dont confuse my post with Buck….i did not say that Josh only lost once.

      sixbags….any predictions for tomorrrow’s meet? I need a good laugh.

    • #31631
      el radio
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      I think it will be close, but then again, big games that are hyped up like this, rarely live up to the hype.

      A) Last year alone silentp

      Notre Dame vs. USC
      OSU vs. Texas
      Texas vs. USC national championship

      those were the biggest games of last year (in my mind) and they all lived up to the hype, just as the OSU UofM game will…and pancho…no blowouts…both defenses are unreal and it will be a dogfight….shut up with OSU already

      B) Becyk Weima sleeps with a pillow under her gun

      C) from 87-89 Shelly was MVP of MIAA, from 04-06 Weima was MVP
      if she can get this her 4th MVP this year (which she will) then i could give the edge to Weima

      but then again wasn’t Russell the first woman to break 17:00 in the 1650? i could be totally wrong, but i thought i remember hearing about that, and i think that ought to count for something

    • #31632
      swim5599
      Member

      I think Boss would have done whatever it took to win the 100 breast his freshmen year against Cole. If Cole decided he did not want to swim the 100 fly that year I still think he would have lost. The fact is that Boss’ last pull out was ridiculous, and he just flat had more in him. Cole was a great swimmer, but Boss was the better breaststroker

    • #31633
      Insight
      Member

      The fastest I foudn for Aaron Cole on a 100 breast split was 54.71, that was the same year he went a 54.72 in the open. Boss’ fastest split in the 100 breast was 54.17.

      Unless Cole had a faster split at a midseason meet, he does not own the fastest 100 breast split in d3 history.

    • #31634

      Well, there is no doubt in my mind who has more offensive weapons. It’s funny that when I talk to Michigan fans I hear “It’s going to be a close game” while the consensus down on the farm (that’s Ohio to you) is that this is going to be a huge blowout. Tells you a little about our confidence in this year’s team. Don’t forget we are the heart of it all, and that includes college football.

      I know several of Hope’s swimmers currently have colds…maybe they really just have Laurinaitis.

      Tbone, you should make a similar list about Troy Smith.

    • #31635
      T-Bone
      Member

      Troy Smith has a [really classy statement has been edited].

    • #31636
      MilkMan
      Member

      I’m with the Captain on this one. No one has mentioned the Lloyd Carr factor. Right now his sphincter is the size of a pea, and it is just going to get tighter and tighter as visions of #10 keep running through his head.

    • #31637
      silentp
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      Tbone, you should make a similar list about Troy Smith.

      Troy Smith is so good at football, it single handedly kept him out of jail, despite numerous arrests.

      Is that what you were looking for? πŸ™‚

    • #31638

      @silentp wrote:

      Troy Smith is so good at football, it single handedly kept him out of jail, despite numerous arrests.
      Is that what you were looking for? πŸ™‚

      Yes… yes it was.

    • #31639
      Stevo
      Member

      It’s funny that when I talk to Michigan fans I hear “It’s going to be a close game” while the consensus down on the farm (that’s Ohio to you) is that this is going to be a huge blowout.

      That shows OSU’s fans ignorrance. As confident I am about a michigan victory i am more confident the game will be close, no matter what the outcome.

      Thanks for the lookup on the facts insight!

    • #31640
      Waldo
      Member

      Maybe i have a preferance for sprinters but i dont see how any other MIAA swimmer has even come close to Peel in his acomplishments…

      ~Frank “Skip” Thompson

      I can speak as an authority on this since I was the Michigan LMSC Top Ten Recorder at the time. Rob Peel set both of his Short Course Yards records in Nashville at the 1991 Short Course Nationals. He obviously turned in his birth certificate and the records were not approached for many years. In fact he is the first person to go under :20.00 and :45.00 seconds in masters. His :19.83 and :44.39 swim broke the National Records set by Kevin DeForest. At the time those were outstanding swims and he went faster than anyone in that age group for 13 years. He did these times before the 1992 Olympic Trials. In the 1992 Olympic Trials, Rob Peel finished 9th place just missing making the final with a time of :22.97 and missing the USMS National Record held by Kevin DeForrest with the outstanding time of :22.59 from the 1983 LC Nationals in the same pool at Indy. Because he did not get the back up information required by USMS, he was listed in the Top Ten with a :24.14 from the 1992 Worlds that were in Indy also and after the Trials because they were held early that year in March. He was beaten by two guys in the 1992 World meet. He was beaten by a German swimmer in the 25-29 age group named Olaf Ahlers who did a time of :23.64 and he was beaten by one Rowdy Gaines in the 30-34 age group with a time of :23.94.

      Rob continued to train up until the 1996 Olympic Trials and got 6th place with a time of :22.80 and beat Tom Jager the former Olympian in the event who got 7th place at :22.85. I remember this well because when Tom was interviewed by NBC he said he swam so bad that he didn’t deserve to be on the Olympic team. He also said he was not even the fastest in his age group referring to Rob Peel. Rob was 30 at the time and Tom was 31. That :22.80 is a USMS record because he followed the USMS requirements at the time. It was not a FINA World Record because that was the first year that the FINA rule was instituted that stated “All World Records must be in Sanctioned Masters Meets”, which I believe is still the policy today. One major change is that there was no requirement for a pool measurement if the swim was a non record in a bulkhead pool, which is not the case today.

      Rob Peel also set a SCM USMS Record in the 50 Free at :22.48 at the US Open in Ann Arbor in 1993. That swim was not a FINA World Record and has since been tied by Ed Wagner who did get credit for the World Record because he performed the swim at a Masters meet per FINA rules.

      I was at this meet and remember it well because Michigan Masters had two swimmers at the time set records at this meet (Rob Peel and Shelia Taormina) and paperwork had to be submitted for these records to count.

      Yesterday in responding about Rob Peel records, I made two errors in my explanations. First Kevin DeForrest was the first person in masters to go under :45.00 and he had the record before Rob at :44.94 and second was the :22.48 that Rob did in the 50 SCM Free at the US Open was a FINA World Record because that swim was done in 1993 and FINA did not change the rule until two years later.

    • #31641
      Waldo
      Member

      Just to add a bit to peel, his time of 22.80 LCM would still give him a 2007 D1 A cut. There are no mens D3 records that are D1 A cuts for 2007, this includes boss’ breast. There are also only 3 women’s D3 records by two different swimmers that are A cuts, niether swimmer from the MIAA. If anyone can find any other MIAA swimmer that has times that would currently be able to get a 2007 D1 A cut in or out of college I will stand corrected. Becky is about 1.9 seconds off in her 200 and boss is about 1.6 in his.

    • #31642
      stewie
      Member

      Longest post ever….

    • #31643

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      Don’t forget we are the heart of it all, and that includes college football.

      Maybe you are confused, the heart of it all? Who are you kidding here? The only body part I’ve ever heard associated with Ohio is the arm pit.

      In fact, I distinctly remember the sign I passed on my way to Columbus on Monday evening.

      It read, “WELCOME TO OHIO, AMERICA’S ARMPIT”

      Additionally, I’m not as convinced as you are that tOSU has more offensive weapons. Yes, Sweatervest has been more willing to display his weapons than Carr, but I don’t feel there is a major difference in the overall explosiveness of each offense. Smith is more mobile than Henne but after that the talent is comparable.

      The ‘Shoe is a dump and the only sure thing is tOSU fans will be starting fires throughout Columbus win or lose.

    • #31644
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      It’s funny that when I talk to Michigan fans I hear “It’s going to be a close game” while the consensus down on the farm (that’s Ohio to you) is that this is going to be a huge blowout.

      Don’t count me as a Michigan fan. I could give two shits about U of M. I spent 4 years of my…wait 5 years of my life there but that was it. I don’t even care if OSU wins, as long as it is close.

      Either way this is a weak year as national champions go. This year’s OSU team isn’t even close to last years.

      PS: The spread is now 7 points. Yea.

    • #31645
      quacker
      Member

      I’m not going to say Peel wasn’t great (he was), but if we’re talking about the best MIAA swimmer, shouldn’t we keep it the collegiate level? I mean, if we’re going to include post-NCAA accomplishments in the mix, why not include pre-MIAA swims as well?

      With this type of logic I propose that Calvin’s Brad Flikkema is the greatest swimmer in MIAA history. In his senior year in HS his 500 time was 4:33.48 at the state meet, which is just a touch faster that Slagh’s MIAA record (but slower than Assink’s school record). Just think about what might have been.

      Yes, I’m joking. Kind of.

    • #31646
      ajp
      Member

      Blah blah blah (or Wawaawa wawawaawaa for stiles)

      I give credit for Peel being the best MIAA swimmer after he graduated, and therefore, his lifetime as a swimmer.

      But if we’re talking best MIAA swimmer, it should mean in college. And as far as records, championships, etc go, the only two that come to mind are Shelly Russel and Josh Boss.

      I coach Becky, and yes she’s the fastest MIAA female ever, I don’t know if I’d call her the best female (behind Russel) or best swimmer (behind Boss). Time will tell where her records stand.

      My $.02

    • #31647
      silentp
      Member

      If we go post NCAA it’s Gorton vs Peel, and yes, it’s close. If we go before that, it’s Boss then Gorton. If we talk women, who knows, there have been lots of good ones.

      What about the best women vs the best men? If you took a team of 18 best of each, who would have the best all-time team? Or, how about now, are the MIAA men or the MIAA women stronger? When i swam it was no question, then last year it was easily the women, but this year? I don’t know, I’m about as clueless on that one as an Ohio State Football player with a Algebra test in front of him.

    • #31648
      Stevo
      Member

      I’m about as clueless on that one as an Ohio State Football player with a Algebra test in front of him.

      the first person to come to mind is Andy Katzenmoyer

      I don’t have the time to dive into your swim question, that would be WAY to much work for this guy….i will give this to facenorth, silentp, cheadle, or milhouse. Speaking of milhouse we haven’t seen a lot of action for him these last couple months. Milhouse you were the pioneer of talking MIAA swimming on Mlive.com, then started forthnace, was changed and mocked by a roomate to facenorth, and now look where we have ended up! A good topic or post by milhouse would be sweet.

    • #31649
      maverick1
      Member

      can somebody say maurice clarett, although he might spell it moreec klaret

    • #31650
      Milhouse
      Member

      “Best” can be a relative term…do you simply mean all-time top times? Or do you want to take era into consideration? The best way to go about it might be to figure out the all-time top individual point scorers at nationals, but I don’t think we have the data.

      By the way, who can ever forget Ohio State wide receiver Reggie Germany? His GPA was a Butarskyesque 0.0

    • #31651
      Ricky Bobby
      Member

      I don’t mean this as a jerk statement so please don’t take it that way.

      With the passing of Bo Schembachler, one can now slide the intangibles Michigan’s way.

      Sympathies to Bo’s family.

    • #31652
      silentp
      Member
    • #31653

      @Milhouse wrote:

      By the way, who can ever forget Ohio State wide receiver Reggie Germany? His GPA was a Butarskyesque 0.0

      Blutarskyesque. nice.

      Good game by the way. My Buckeye blinders got the best of me before the game. Michigan offense impressed the hell out of me. I hope we meet again.

    • #31654
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Kurt, you influenced me enough to only bet $20 on the game. Thanks for nothing!

    • #31655
      Duck
      Member

      The following is an excerpt from my book, entitled Controlling the Locker Room: Respect through Fear:



      Following are Senior National Cuts for men and women, followed by how much slower or faster the D3 record is for men and women:

      WOMEN
      SCY
      23.29
      50.59
      1:49.09
      4:49.49
      16:46.89
      56.09
      2:00.99
      1:03.59
      2:17.49
      55.39
      2:01.49
      2:02.89
      4:21.39

      DIII
      22.95
      49.73
      1:49.09
      4:55.10
      16:40.20
      55.57
      2:00.85
      1:03.20
      2:17.27
      55.16
      2:01.84
      2:04.20
      4:23.30

      +/-
      (.34)
      (.86)
      —-
      5.61
      (6.69)
      (.52)
      (.14)
      (.39)
      (.22)
      (.36)
      .35
      1.31
      1.91

      EVENT
      50 FREE
      100 FREE
      200 FREE
      500 FREE
      1650 FREE
      100 BACK
      200 BACK
      100 BREAST
      200 BREAST
      100 FLY
      200 FLY
      200 IM
      400 IM

      MEN
      SCY
      20.49
      44.89
      1:38.89
      4:27.19
      15:34.99
      49.99
      1:48.79
      56.29
      2:02.59
      49.19
      1:49.69
      1:50.49
      3:56.59

      DIII
      19.90
      43.65
      1:36.98
      4:23.28
      15:14.55
      48.61
      1:47.20
      54.69
      1:58.90
      47.43
      1:45.19
      1:47.00
      3:53.99

      +/-
      (.59)
      (1.24)
      (1.91)
      (3.91)
      (20.44)
      (1.38)
      (1.59)
      (1.60)
      (3.69)
      (1.76)
      (4.50)
      (3.49)
      (2.60)

      In other words, females should not even enter into the conversation when talking about “Best of the MIAA; Best of Division 3; or Best of _____ “

    • #31656
      Roco02
      Member

      Great job for Hope in the 200 FR, quick for right now and up there with some of the best in the country (minus W & L, who “wasn’t” rested for this weekend and went 1:24.0… yeah, i’ll believe that if they go under 1:22 this year).

      Both Hope and K looked tired in their next day meets. To be expected at this point in the year. Nothing too exciting out of the Olivet/Calvin dual that i saw.

      What did anyone else think?
      πŸ˜€ πŸ˜• 8) πŸ™ πŸ™‚ πŸ˜† πŸ˜› πŸ™„ 😳

    • #31657

      Cheadle,

      I think you should have bet more if you were betting for UofM…they covered the spread, didn’t they? I thought it was set at 6 1/2 points or something around there.

      A damn shame the NCAA doesn’t have a playoff system in place. I mean if DIII football can have a playoff I’m pretty sure DI can.

    • #31658
      silentp
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      A damn shame the NCAA doesn’t have a playoff system in place. I mean if DIII football can have a playoff I’m pretty sure DI can.

      Even D1-AA does, but this is just about money, nothing else, and anyone who says otherwise isn’t looking at the facts, but trying to keep hope that some things are done for reasons other than money. I am with you though vazzy.

    • #31659
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Cheadle,

      I think you should have bet more if you were betting for UofM…they covered the spread, didn’t they? I thought it was set at 6 1/2 points or something around there.

      A damn shame the NCAA doesn’t have a playoff system in place. I mean if DIII football can have a playoff I’m pretty sure DI can.

      Here is what happened: I got to the Paris Hotel Gaming room, looked up on the board and saw that U of M was a 6 point underdog, down from 6.5. I also noticed that the Cowboys COlts game had moved back to a pick ’em game. I had decided that I was going to be a total of $100 (it ended up being $110) on those two games plus I was taking the Bills to cover against the Texans and the Titans to cover vs the Eagles.

      Anyhow, I ended up betting $20 on the 3 games I won (Bills, U of M, Titans) and I lost $50 on the friggin Colts. Because the house takes 10% I made $4 with a 3-1 record.

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