MIAA @ NCAA’s

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    • #12465
      Stevo
      Member

      I haven’t got much chance to look over the results but here are some initial thoughts.

      Hope had a solid 200 FR, dropped time but that event is ridiculously fast. Nice leadoff by Vogelzang (21.08) Rose looked to be the “slowest” but he is a freshman

      Krone not back in the 500 FR, first alternate, ouch. It’s hard to be the only one from your team

      200 IM- Not a good showing for anyone. Dekker and Nelis got slower and Heyboer stayed the same as wheaton, i wonder what the deal was?

      50- No MIAA swimmers but holy shit 20.69 to make top 8, i’m glad i graduated when i did.

      400 MR- Ellis looked strong and so did espinosa, dekker isn’t looking on top of his game, and that is about right for Dmitruk, but i am sure they are dissapointed. Hope doesn’t have much chance to move up but can hold on for 13th, great split by nelis and nice work by vogelzang he’s not a breastroker.

      There will be bigger things to come in this meet for the MIAA. Overall grade for the first morning- B-

    • #36717
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I would say that the 400 mr the only good split was from fonsy. Bobby is off his game right now hopefully he can come back later. Ben was a lot faster at miaa, maybe not individually but in the relay he was. Paul I will be a lot faster tonight. Lets see what happens when the person next to him doesnt just drop off.

    • #36718
      maverick1
      Member

      i think stevo had a pretty good evaluation of the meet this morning……1 good event for the miaa and a bunch of ok stuff with bad swims around there too.

      200free relay—i don’t understand what the heck kathy was thinking with her order, but i’m guessing that she hasn’t figured out that fonsy has a pretty bad flat start 50. hope did have a nice swim hear, dropped some time, but couldn’t get into the finals because of some big time drops.

      500-krone was the 2nd fastest guy to the 200 and 17th at the 500……..new race plan necessary!

      200IM-bunch of garbage…..they’ve all been faster….none of them really went after it and died, so they all basically just swam the event and got through it. i’d have to say that the miaa hasn’t really “represented” in this event since nick duda

      50free-wow was this fast. hard to think that when the meet was held at holland, only cox (eventual winner and quitter) would have been in the big heat with his prelims time.

      400medley- at the 350 mark, kalamazoo was in 3rd place behind kenyon who dqed and emory. the free split being about .8 slower than at miaas killed this relay. hopefully they can bounce back for the 200medley. hope had a decent relay, heyboer was unimpressive, but nelis was damn fast and rose did ok….i feel sorry for vogelzang because even gustavus found someone to go under 1:00 and he’s most likely a full time boobstroker.

      it doesn’t seem like K has come into the meet with a lot of fire….i mean i agree with the move to take ellis and fonzy out of the 50, but the relay order and what looks like lack of race prep has hurt them.

      my grade: C-

      1/7 swims were good (swims-includes relays as a whole)
      3/7 swims were ok
      3/7 swims were bad

    • #36719
      silentp
      Member

      Hope held their own and again went about the same time, so props to them in finals fo the 2FR.

      Not sure how that score for the Olivet diver is…

      Kzoo was able to drop time back down and break their own school record, so props to them. I honestly think it was a bad luck to get seeded with emory and kenyon in prelims. Hopefully they are happy and move forward through the meet with fast swim. Props to Fonsy on his 55.3 split, that’s cruisin and was the fastest split of the breastroker, minus a false start in prelims.

    • #36720
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      It was nice to see my boys come back tonight and swim fast. The 100 breast will be an amazing race. Fonsy with his past in big time races has done pretty well. I can’t wait for tomorrow.

    • #36721
      ajp
      Member

      You can’t forget Nelis’ 49.78 split on the Hope relay. That was smokin.

      I’d love to see him back in 50.5-ish tomorrow.
      Bobby needs to be sub 51.0 to make it back, which is definitely doable.

      Zoo’s 200 MR should be blazing.

      Ellis has the 3rd fastest 100 back of the meet right now. Mitchell is on fire.
      Thomas at 50.03, Ullrich at 50.5. Ellis 50.9. Should be interesting.

      Espinosa is flying too. Love to see him 56.0 or faster.

      It’d also be great to see Chas in the 200 free. 1:42.0 usually makes it back.

      Heyboer 400IM, I don’t know what to expect. I know he’s a gamer. Let’s hope he rocks it out.

    • #36722
      swim5599
      Member

      well after Heyboer dropped to 1:54.0 in the 2 Im and he is clearly a better 400 Imer I would think 4:03 or so

    • #36723
      ajp
      Member

      Kzoo and Hope 200 MR DQ? oh no…

    • #36724
      Stingray
      Member

      what happened? 5 DQs yesterday, 5 today? They’re DQing everyone.

    • #36725
      Stevo
      Member

      a bigger blow for kzoo than for Hope…..but not good for the MIAA in general. They are really cracking down….another reason i’m glad i graduated.

    • #36726

      These DQ’s are getting ridiculous… kalamazoo would have been coming back 5th in the medley relay

    • #36727
      Stingray
      Member

      has anyone heard if these are judges DQs or takeoff pads DQs? Just curious.

    • #36728
      swim5599
      Member

      A dq is a dq. If they wanted to make the championship final they still could have done it with conservative take offs. No disrespect.

    • #36729
      El Duderino
      Member

      The NCAA should at least make it uniformed. If you’re going to use reaction pads at the national championship meet, make it mandatory for each conference to conduct their conference championship with reaction pads. If not every conference is able to do so, take reaction pads out of the national meet so its an even playing field. I understand that a DQ is a DQ, but I feel that teams that have prior experience with reaction pads have an unfair advantage. They don’t change the equipment in other NCAA championships, why change things up in swimming?

    • #36730
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Who cares about the reaction pads. There is no need for them to be uniform. If you don’t have one to practice with, use tivo, no tivo us a camera, no camera, just look at the damn starts and figure out if they are fast or slow. I mean ncaa mandated relay pads thats a joke.

      They don’t really help anyway, hope has a pad, gcc has a pad, kenyon has a pad, pretty sure they all dqed.

      However I do understand your frustration, if it makes you feel better I was 20 feet from kzoo’s relay and a relay pad was not needed to provide evidence of cheating. What I am unsure about it why a team that was crushing their heat needs to push a start, it was obvious they were getting in.

    • #36731
      Low Tide
      Member

      It’s frustrating as an alumni to see your team get DQ’ed, but it is frustrating as a fan to see so many fast teams get DQ’ed. I just have never seen something like this. Every year, it seems there is one, maybe two relays that get DQ’ed and it was always a huge deal. Not once in my college career was I a member of a DQ’ed relay, and only once in ten years of age group swimming. Even Hope, with their traditionally uber-fast relay starts rarely ever DQ’ed a relay.

      Hopefully, after this year swimmers and coaches will better prepare. At least for the guys at K (and Hope), they are all still young and have a chance to come back and do even better despite what must be an obvious disappointment.

    • #36732
      Derek
      Member

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      However I do understand your frustration, if it makes you feel better I was 20 feet from kzoo’s relay and a relay pad was not needed to provide evidence of cheating. What I am unsure about it why a team that was crushing their heat needs to push a start, it was obvious they were getting in.

      Whether you intended it or not, this is a pretty loaded statement! Clearly I’m not there and was never a part of developing a strategy for that race, but I would have to guess that it was a “false start” and not an attempt at cheating. Cheating would imply that they tried to do it on purpose, whereas I imagine that it was probably nerves and also a desire to make sure they got into the big heat instead of 9th like in the 400MR. This is also a very young relay. Give them a little bit of slack and recognize their mistake.

    • #36733
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I did hear through the grapevine that someone did jump on K. To call it cheating is a little harsh. I am sure that the person who jumped was like i am going to go early, because no one is getting called for false starts. I mean this isn’t a time trial or anything.

    • #36734
      SwexasTim
      Member

      You guys are taking this way to seriously. No worries Hope cheated too. Maybe it was harsh, i didn’t mean it like that at all, all i meant was rules were broken and someone got caught, well 5 someones got caught, to me thats cheating. I don’t know how it is w/ y’all but when we jumped a relay or false started, or at wheaton when kyle waterstone used a towel on his start (which is apparently illegal now) we called it cheating. I didn’t intend it to be harsh I know he didn’t intend to jump in early that would be ridiculous and to think that is what i was implying is as well. i mean come on, the point i was making was why even push it so much that it would be close, or in my opinion not close. Maybe he was stressed about being ninth, maybe he was stressed about his first national meet. You live, you screw up, you learn, you move on, laugh about it later.

      ps Once I cheated on an 800 free relay, now thats stupid.

    • #36735
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      the person who jumped was on the relay yesterday.

    • #36736
      Stingray
      Member

      A dq is a dq. If they wanted to make the championship final they still could have done it with conservative take offs. No disrespect.

      Ok, normally I’d agree with you, a DQ is a DQ. However, the touchpads make you think. If you’re DQd with them for a .05 false start, there’s no way an official would have been able to see that. If that’s why there are so many false starts this year, it kinda makes you think how many records and stuff were set by teams pre-touchpad era, that would have been DQd had they used a touchpad. The touchpads add an interesting element, especially if they’re the reason so many teams got DQd this year. I heard they caused drama last year, was it anything like this?

      Just to clarify, I’m not saying anyone was DQd unfairly, I wasn’t there. I’m just sayin so many DQs at one meet, thats nuts, I’ve never seen anything like it.

    • #36737
      El Duderino
      Member

      I think we should all put this in the past. What happened happened, theres nothing to be done about it. Lets not turn this into another Time Trial argument (i.e. pointless and confusing).

      Instead lets all celebrate the good things in the world, like Duke losing in the first round of the NCAA basketball tournament.

    • #36738
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      If we take technology out of the question then the suites that everyone wears would have to be changed too.

    • #36739

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      However I do understand your frustration, if it makes you feel better I was 20 feet from kzoo’s relay and a relay pad was not needed to provide evidence of cheating. What I am unsure about it why a team that was crushing their heat needs to push a start, it was obvious they were getting in.

      Hey douche bag, why don’t you stop being such an asshole and not refer to it as “cheating.” False starts happen, I’m sure it wasn’t intentional

    • #36740

      Ha, i guess I should have read the rest of the posts before I wrote that, but I still hate swexastim’s jackass comments… most notably the one hating on julio

    • #36741
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I have noticed that SwexesTim dishes it to Hope as well as Kzoo so I’m not going to take his comment personally… Call it cheating…whatever….

    • #36742
      ajp
      Member

      Nelis Just keeps getting faster. 50.24. That’s awesome.

      Heyboer 4:03.26. I’ll think he’ll give Duda a run at the open record next year.

    • #36743
      silentp
      Member

      Fonsy tied for 3rd, new school record for K, 56.16. Great job! Now he’ll get to stand with the 3 Kenyon guys who are 1-2-3… remember when Kenyon couldn’t do breastroke?

      Great job by Heyboer and Nelis. Nelis is Hope’s top scorer right now!

    • #36744
      silentp
      Member

      Ellis takes second, new MIAA open record, 50.34, almost a full second faster than it was a year ago, wow.

      Hope has a shot to be top 8 in the 800 FR coming up and who knows what Kzoo can do, let’s hope for not last.

    • #36745

      You guys are nerds…get over it. Not having pads is like not having instant reply, shot clocks, 5-second rules, speed restrictions in the pits, time to hit a golf ball, and I could go on and on. The point is, it is in the rules. Learn to deal with it. You knew it going in. At least they aren’t posting who was the guilty person for jumping like they are doing at D1 Nats. I can’t imagine the feedback on this forum if they were doing that.

      I mean, seriously, if D1 uses them why on earth should DIII be different? That is like saying because DIII is such an inferior division that there shouldn’t be shot clocks at the DIII level.

      To suggest that old records and swims don’t mean crap because there weren’t pads is like saying all the backstroke records are crap because of the new turn or what about the new rule with the “dolphin” kick on the breastroke pullout? I remember K people crying and complaining about how Josh Boss should have been DQ’d because of it (not to say he could have not done a pullout and still won). Shit changes…deal with it.

    • #36746

      And what is sick is Alexandrov posting a 51.56 in the 100 breast. I mean how do you drop 1.1 seconds in a 100 from prelims to finals when you are already that fast? Takes down the Linn 1997 record.

    • #36747
      Vic
      Member

      Yeah, Kzoo people, relax about SwexasTim’s comments. One definition of cheat is “to violate rules or regulations” (dictionary.com). Did they violate the rules? Yes. So, one could say that they cheated. Not a big deal, because it happens to everyone. Some may say that there has to be intent to cheat for it to be cheating. I can understand that, but I can also see it the other way: that whenever you break the rules in sports, you are trying to cheat. Athletes are always trying to push the limits in sports, including swimming relays. I tried to push the limits when I swam. I’m sure I false started a number of times. Sometimes it was called, sometimes it wasn’t. Was I cheating when I false started? Yes, that’s why it’s against the rules.

      It’s just a word. I don’t think he meant any harm by it.

    • #36748
      SwexasTim
      Member

      thanks vic, its unfortunate that this forum does not follow my sense of humor or alternate word choices.

      Sorry to all for causing such a problem. And ingram, the julio comment was a joke that i made 5 weeks ago, i’m sticking with it b/c its funny b/c slipping on a mile wouldn’t matter….its the mile thats why its funny. Stop taking everything as a personal attack and either laugh at my humor or say thats not funny and move on.

      now some swimming….

      heyboer and nelis re-re-break there 4 im and 1 fly record

      ellis and fonsy straight ballin in the back and breast, during both races i turned to facenorth and said he’s going to win, unfortunately i’m not smrt.

      dmitruk had a great split on the 8 free 144.0, however this was the only split i was impressed with on that relay.

      little dissapointed with hope’s 8 free, but they got some much need points. as of right now kzoo leds hope 50.5 to 34 (if my calculations are correct)

    • #36749
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Yeah it was a A- night for the MIAA. I am wondering why Heyboer wasn’t on the 800 (in the stead of Rose). Good things to come. Not that we need reminding, but the 4 finalists fromtonight are all freshmen!

      Going back to the finals of the 400 Medley Relay for Nelis :

      Splits 50.6ish
      faster…Prelims at MIAA 50.8
      faster…Finals 50.6
      NATS Prelims Relay 50.07 (about the same as the 50.6 flat)
      faster… Finals Relay 49.7
      Prelims 50.4 (about the same as the 49.7 relay)
      fastest 50.24

      That is 7 swims in a row that were essentially life time bests.

    • #36750
      facenorth
      Member

      Stingray wrote:

      If you’re DQd with them for a .05 false start, there’s no way an official would have been able to see that.

      Don’t tell Trish Meier that, last year in Minneapolis there were two instances of -.01’s being dually confirmed in the women’s meet alone. I also believe that a dually confirmed -.02 was the difference in a team title that weekend.

      We have a pad, you can see -.05. At least that is the general consensus at Hope. I would’ve called both MIAA relays that got plunked this morning and I’m usually the guy that is the last to call it. I really didn’t think there was much question about either one (obviously just one man’s opinion). It’s too bad too, both Hope and K could’ve used those points. Both teams seemed to respond pretty well after the setback, especailly tonight.

    • #36751
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      SwexasTim remember that a lot of the talk on this forum is just to give people crap it is funny, and suppose to be fun.

    • #36752
      Stevo
      Member

      nehemiah….It’s funny how the K tone changes when one of your relays get’s disqualified. Cry me a river.

    • #36753
      silentp
      Member

      @facenorth wrote:

      It’s too bad too, both Hope and K could’ve used those points. Both teams seemed to respond pretty well after the setback, especailly tonight.

      Hope wouldn’t have scored if you count the people who all got DQ’d in prelims, only with those other 4 getting called, and even then, they would have been only 14th, so not a lot of points.

    • #36754
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      nehemiah….It’s funny how the K tone changes when one of your relays get’s disqualified. Cry me a river.

      meanwhile, rain sleet or snow…you are always a dick head.

      You guys have no class. It is so evident you are glad we DQ’d our best relay. Hey, whatever makes you feel good.

      – Jussi

    • #36755

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      And ingram, the julio comment was a joke that i made 5 weeks ago, i’m sticking with it b/c its funny b/c slipping on a mile wouldn’t matter….its the mile thats why its funny.

      I understand that it was sarcastic… if I thought you were being serious, I probably wouldn’t have any reason to get mad about it… just leave the poor little mexican boy alone

    • #36756

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      It is so evident you are glad we DQ’d our best relay. Hey, whatever makes you feel good.

      Word. At least I am nothing but apathetic regarding hope’s performance at this meet

    • #36757
      SwexasTim
      Member

      cheadle sorry if i made you feel like i was happy about the 200 medley. Personally I love it when the league is represented well at the national level. I don’t care who it is, carving out a little respect for the miaa is always good.

      rivalries die hard, i’m always going to root for hope first and i’m guessing the same for you w/ kzoo. but thats no excuse and i apologize.

      The real question is krone going to score in the mile to get 4 miaa teams placing at nationals.

    • #36758
      iamdonovan
      Member

      Krone had best score at nationals…

      I could tell that Swexas was kidding, I hope everyone else could too…

    • #36759

      well I believe cheadle and I were speaking more towards steve-o there…

    • #36760
      Stevo
      Member

      First off i was not happy to see K DQ their relay. But like lenny said i will always root for Hope first. I cheer for the MIAA at the national level. The point of the post was that all you guys keep talking about how hope “cheated” on the time trial and now that one of your relays got caught for cheating the tone changes. Cheadle if you want to think i’m a dickhead that’s fine, i’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

    • #36761
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      First off i was not happy to see K DQ their relay. But like lenny said i will always root for Hope first. I cheer for the MIAA at the national level. The point of the post was that all you guys keep talking about how hope “cheated” on the time trial and now that one of your relays got caught for cheating the tone changes. Cheadle if you want to think i’m a dickhead that’s fine, i’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

      I will say this for the 2nd time in a row: The only dipshits who bring up the time-trial are people from Hope. I sware, you guys feel so guilty about it you just cannot wait to defend yourself against attacks that are coming from no-where but your own mind. Seriously, why even bring it up?

    • #36762
      LaBouche
      Member

      Alright, enough whining and bitching from all of you. I’m sick of the time trial debate, and after only a few posts, I’m sick of the Nats DQ debate as well. K got DQd and that sucks, especially since they had a great chance to score very well in the 200 MR. Hope got DQd and that sucks, too, because, well I’m from Hope and I never like seeing my boys miss out on chances to swim at Nats. But this crap about the Hope guys being glad that K DQd is ridiculous (We only enjoys things like that in dual meets and MIAAs…haha).

      The Hope guys need to quit being so defensive about the time trial…on that I agree with Jussi. It was a long time ago, and those guys got to swim at the big show. There’s nothing to be defensive or feel guilty about.

      The K guys need to quit blaming the Hope guys for being anti-K. That’s simply not the case.

      Geez, you guys should read the stuff that goes back and forth between UNC student and Duke students. They flat out hate each other. Can you honestly tell me that you think Hope feels that way about K? Or vice versa?

    • #36763
      silentp
      Member

      Both Hope and K had several things to take away from this meet.

      Despite losing their best swimmer, Hope scored almost as many points as last year. They got 4 relays back at night and only lose 1 swimmer from those relays. Hebooer improved his times from MIAAs in 3 events (the 200 IM obviously can’t be compared, but the backs and the 4IM). Nelis also continues to look great, even after a rocky start in the 2IM.

      Kalamazoo went from not scoring to 66.5 points, good for a top 20 finish. They added experience to all of their swimmers so next year can be even better. Ellis rebroke both of his open records for backstroke. Fonsy broke into the top 3 and got to stand with some Kenyon dudes. We also saw Dmitruk split a 1:44.0, maybe he’s found his event.

      Overall, the MIAA had 2 top 8 guys in an event, the 200 back, when was the last time that happened? 02? We also have to remember this was the fastest nationals EVER, by a lot, so swims that would normally be scoring more or looking better (example: Krone’s 1650), didn’t get to look as special.

      Great job to everyone as the MIAA improves.

    • #36764
      facenorth
      Member

      uh oh everyone, sounds like LaBouche is getting angry.

    • #36765
      Stevo
      Member

      Cheadle i see your point about the Time Trial, i apologize for bringing it up. What would the Hope vs. K rivalry be if we alll were buddy buddy? What is fun about this forum is that we all have differient opinions. If we all agreed with each other i probably wouldn’t even bother. It is to bad K and Hope and all the other 50 relays got disqualified, that’s a shitty feeling, ,but you learn from it and move on. The great thing is both K and Hope are young and have plenty more opportunities to impress at nationals. Great job this weekend to all MIAA swimmers, a lot of exciting things to come for our conference.

      A few thoughts on swimming.

      Hope looked tired saturday night.

      Krone had a great mile, congrats to him

      Miesner is put in a tough spot, being a one man team is hard. He is a better swimmer than his nationals performances.

      When K finds a sprinter look out, no dissrespect to Dmitruk but I am sure that is the focus of Kathy’s recruiting.

      Now let’s talk about next year.

    • #36766
      Low Tide
      Member

      I am certainly hoping recruiting is going well for Kzoo… just showing Ellis’ and Espinosa’s times on those relays has to be a huge recruiting incentive – “Can you split a 20. low and 45 next year? You just might be on a national championship relay as a freshaman.” I think K has about 4 guys capable of a 50. fly next year, so they really just need either an existing sprinter to improve a lot, or to bring in that one stud.

      Looks like Dmitruk found his sweet spot in the 200 free and I was happy to see Greiner consistently splitting under a 21. Dekker needs to think of himself as a nationals swimmer now and work with the coaches to determine a training schedule where he peaks in March, and not in February.

      Both Ellis and Espinosa showed they can be individual national champions before they graduate and I especially look forward to seeing Ellis duke it out with Thomas from Hopkins over the coming years…. probably can not count on Thomas turning at the flags anymore. I’m also very curious what Ellis could have done in a 100 fly this year – I think he easily would have scored.

      If K can get some more freestylers there next year, Espinosa especially, will hopefully have more left for a 200 on Saturday (I imagine he got tired from swimming on so many relays).

      I thought Hope did really well with Nelis becoming a bonafied stud right alongside Heyboer. The freestylers were only decent, but they have a very solid foundation to work with in the coming years.

    • #36767
      El Duderino
      Member

      If Kzoo can get a few guys who are definitively sprinters, it will help a lot by allowing Dmitruk to focus more on the 200 and Hennigar to work on his IM or even his breastroke (I think he was a 1:02 in high school without actually training breast).

      Regardless, things are looking up for next year. Hopefully Calvin can keep the whole team on board next year – sounds like that funky mid-winter J Term thing kind of screwed a bunch of guys (the race for 3rd would have been much tighter and more exciting had they brought their full team). It would be nice to see 5 MIAA teams represented at nationals next year, and maybe have Olivet qualify someone else so Meisner isn’t a lone wolf again.

    • #36768
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Once again Krone was out too fast in the Mile. 15:44 is great, but he can be faster than that. He was 13 seconds ahead of the guy who finished 8th at the 1000.

      Kenyon will be a 3:18 in the 400 Medley next year because they only lose their breaststroker(s) but have Stoyel to replace them. (and) Hopkins brings back their entire relay. Kzoo will need a back half of sub 50, sub 46 to compete with those two.

      Nelis goes 45 flat start next year in the 100 free. I thought he might have been on Hope’s 400 Free Relay in finals, though you don’t lift the senior when he had a solid split.

      No worries Stevo.

    • #36769
      SwexasTim
      Member

      not to take away for holten whatsoever, but hopes free relays (2 and 4) already have solid replacements, so no reasons they shouldn’t be at least as quick if not faster. CVB goes 200 free and nelis goes 400 free, especially if he is a 45, personally i like this statement, i agree without a doubt if its a relay split, which going out in a 46 mid, and coming back with 3 45 splits is going to make that a quick relay, rvz (46.1 in houston) rose we all know has been 45.1 and nelis.

      The medleys are looking solid again, same medley can come back to nationals be a second faster if hope can get king there. I think he will be faster next year, hopefully split a 58 low on the relay. Should help that be a little bit of a better relay. Who knows, maybe heyboer goes breast and ruch (if he can get down to 52 mid) will led off. I don’t think that will be the case, but options are always nice.

      K is definetly looking promising especially if they bring in a true sprinter or one of there guys can get past the sometimes freshman woes and get down into the 20.mids and 46 mid to lows.

      Krone needs to listen to Haven and swim his races smarter. Olivet needs to get more swimmers there, hopefuly a full relay though i’m not sure if i see that anytime soon and calvin has some of the tools but who knows if they can fill it out enough to get a relay to nats. It would be nice to see 4 teams with relays there and krone swimming as fast as he can go by swimming smart.

    • #36770
      SwexasTim
      Member

      so i posted twice and now a third time to apoligize for posting twice, read the second one, i made some adjustments, though the edit button could have worked just as well…..

    • #36771
      Sea Dog
      Member

      Just a few thoughts on the DQ’s, most of them were on the fly- free exchange (7 0f 9). Usually a bad finish by the flyer.

      Pads on the blocks probably good as an official has to deq no matter which team its on. I some times think the biggies get away with more.

      Think an official would be less likely to deq Kenyon?

      Kazoo impressed.

    • #36772
      TheDon
      Member

      Did they have take-off pads on the blocks at D3?

    • #36773
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I agree about Krone. If he held back a little the front part of his 500 I think he would have been under 4:30 easily. Same thing in the mile in order to go in the 15:30’s you do not need to be out in 4:35. You can sit at about 4:40 and just build off of that.

    • #36774
      Sea Dog
      Member

      The Don, yes they had take off pads on the blocks. Does it make a difference? Between breaks they manually threw water on them.

    • #36775
      TheDon
      Member

      I don’t get the throwing water on them but……

      I would think the use of take-off pads alone explains the high number of jumps/DQs. Most D3 swimmers are not use to block pads and most likely get away with some -0.04 or -0.02 takeoffs routinely in dual and conference meet action when take-off pads are not available.

      At the D1 meet I saw (read recognized as a jump) Arizona’s DQ from the stands in the 200 Medley and that listed at -0.03 on the breast/fly exchange. Can’t say I had my eye on the other two in the heat though somebody said NW’s was obvious and it did list at -0.06. Earlier in the season at the OSU Invite I witnessed a DQ in a 200 medley relay listing at -0.01 and I sure didn’t call that one (biased father’s eye?).

      With no take-off pads I would think a typical D3 dual/conference ref is never going to see/call -0.00 to -0.02 and maybe often let -0.03 to -0.04 slide. One thing I noticed in the 400 free relay at D1 was how conservative most of the starts were (save California & USC). At that stage of the meet the points were more important than the time and to a certain extent the place…..and yet, Auburn still smashed the record! D3 just needs to be a little more careful when take-off pads are involved.

    • #36776
      SwexasTim
      Member

      swim5599 krone was out way to fast, at one point it was announced he was 8 seconds under record pace, then finished 30 seconds slower than the record, just doesn’t seem like smart swimming. I don’t want to take anything away from krone, just want to see him max out his potential.

    • #36777
      swim5599
      Member

      I agree with you. The race is 500 yards long I don’t care who is in first at the 200. I want to see the guy at the end. I take Rantz for example he NS his 250’s in the morning and went 4:27, that is ideally how one would want to split a 500. Krone is a great swimmer he just needs to use his brain a little more.

    • #36778
      Sea Dog
      Member

      The Don…….Interesting. I agree with everything you said. I saw some of the dq’s and checked later and when they were generally -0.02 or worse you could see them with your eye. I asked about one start as I thought it was very close and the coach told me 0.00 perfect start.
      also the exchanges on the free relays were slow but I thought that was because they were gun shy after all the med. relay deqs. I don’t remember any deqs on free relays the entire meet.

      After thinking about it there is probably some good learning experiences here.

      Thanks for your response.

    • #36779
      silentp
      Member

      @Sea Dog wrote:

      I asked about one start as I thought it was very close and the coach told me 0.00 perfect start.

      If this was at women’s nats, it could have been the gustavus 800 FR. My sister was on the relay and the ref called 1 of them for a jump, but the pads confirmed it was .00, so actually a case of the pads saving someone… interesting eh?

    • #36780
      SwexasTim
      Member

      same thing happened to hope on the medley, i ref called it, and the pads said .00 so we were also saved by the pads….

    • #36781
      quacker
      Member

      does having the pads change the way that dqs happen on relays? i thought it never came down to one ref’s call anyway, but that it had to be dual confirmation with two of the three refs and starters.

      the way you’re describing it makes it sound like the pads replace a person needed for dual confirmation. is that really the case now?

    • #36782
      ajp
      Member

      From -.09 to +0.9 the pads are perfect. No dual confirmation needed. Outside that range, the pads count as one of a dual confirmation.

    • #36783
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @ajp wrote:

      From -.09 to +0.9 the pads are perfect. No dual confirmation needed. Outside that range, the pads count as one of a dual confirmation.

      Although .10 can be a DQ if two refs call it that way.

    • #36784
      ajp
      Member

      True, but that’s the dual confirmation rule in effect.

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