LCM training vs. SCY training….

Forums General General LCM training vs. SCY training….

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 20 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #12819
      Low Tide
      Member

      In the Olympic Trials thread there is a lot of talk of needing to train long course in order to perform well in that format…

      Which seems strange to me, as I always considered LCM to be easier to swim at, both practicing and at meets. Granted it is a longer distance, but inserting more walls into the equation just creates an added difficulty.

      It always took me a while to get going, and turns just served to break my stroke and interupt my “flow”. My turns were slow, ponderous, awful and I probably wasted too much energy on them, and often came off at an angle, despite practicing them constantly.

      I would have much rather trained and competed LCM… unless you have uber-fast turns, why wouldn’t you? I think it would be more difficult for a LCM swimmer to excel in SCY than for the opposite.

    • #40811
      t3hhammer
      Member

      I disagree with you completely. In my experience, and I’m pretty sure in most peoples’ experience, SCY is much easier to swim than LCM. In order to swim LCM well you need to be training LCM because of the added distance and the lack of walls. Walls, unless you are REALLY bad at them, help a lot because you are at your fastest off the dive and off the turns.
      Even most distance swimmers have trouble switching from SCY to LCM if they haven’t been training LCM. Every year when I was in school our distance kids would always complain about how miserable the switch was.

    • #40812
      Low Tide
      Member

      Huh… maybe I am unique, but I just loved training LCM.

    • #40813
      silentp
      Member

      I preferred LCM training as well. Yes, the pool felt longer moving that way, rather than moving back, but do think the switch is easier. People always said how bad their walls were after training LCM, but you only heard the complaint of the pool feeling long after training SCY.

    • #40814
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Low Tide, you def would have been one of those guys who were better in LCM than in SCY. I am sure you went under 1:00 in the 100 fly at the GT Bray aquatic center during Dec training in 1996 (junior year). For comparison, Latham went a 1:05 in the 100 back.

      (My frame of reference for this memeory is that you and Jablonski went almost the exact same time at that meet, accept he was swimming freestyle).

    • #40815
      Colbybr
      Member

      My opinion on LCM is that it matters little whether you train LCM or not. If you are a person who is an above-average wall swimmer and average between the walls you will struggle LCM and if you are the opposite of this (crappy walls, great in between them) you will thrive. Training in LCM or SCY means little, but working on technical aspects of swimming in each can really help you.

    • #40816
      Mickey Mouse
      Member

      If you only train SC your body becomes accustomed to having frequent turns. Then, if you go to a LCM meet without doing much or any LC training, your stroke will break down a lot faster because you aren’t getting as many turns and taking quite a few more strokes.

      I agree with Colby in that whether you have better stroke or turns helps determine if you’re a better SC or LC swimmer. But think you still need a lot of LC training to make the most of it.

    • #40817
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      If I remember correctly
      Amanda Beard did NO lcm training and all scy leading up to the athens games. (except when the team was in athens)
      I’d say she did alright…

    • #40818

      I think it does depend on the swimmer, and I know many swimmers that actually prefer long course. Me personally, it just takes a little getting used to then no problems. We did not have a long Course pool to train in during club. To compensate, we actually did a lot of odd lengths, like 125, 225, 250, etc. I did need a meet or two before I did ok in the long course meets (I always did a longer warm up to get used to the distance). Once I got to the taper meet, my times were, according to the conversions, about the same for yards.

    • #40819

      Bigger swimmers (read stronger) have an advantage over technique based swimmers in sprinting events like the 50 yard free. Maybe even the 100. In SCY, the wake coming off the wall in the 50 is a huge factor. Colin Lee-To of the Gophers is a good examply of this. Great swimmer, but small in stature.

      I’d also say that swimmers with a superior kick, who get 15 yards underwater off of turns in the back and fly prefer SCY.

      Really, SCY is a more technical course. I’d much rather watch a SCY meet. And swimmers with all around skills (big kick, strong underwater, explosive turn) are given a chance to excel. LCM is better for Dolan-type swimmers who can hold a fast pace forever. That’s great for him, but not as exciting. And certainly not the best course to showcase athletisism.

    • #40820
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Though I would agree with you in most cases, and as much fun as it is (sometimes) to watch world class athletes make SCY pools look like your front lawn kiddie pool, I would prefer to watch LCM. The reason being when you get to be as good as they do, its not that exciting, you can see that they are literally too good and too fast for a 25 yard pool, they devour it, and then it truly does become all about turns. How does watching a race decided soley by turns let the true athletes rise to the top? Wouldn’t it be a race (not that turns aren’t part of swimming) decided by the SWIMMING?

    • #40821

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Really, SCY is a more technical course. I’d much rather watch a SCY meet. And swimmers with all around skills (big kick, strong underwater, explosive turn) are given a chance to excel. LCM is better for Dolan-type swimmers who can hold a fast pace forever. That’s great for him, but not as exciting. And certainly not the best course to showcase athleticism.

      I think the opposite. LCM gives true swimmers, people who actually excel at swimming, the advantage. Not guys who excel at pushing off the wall, or who are big and strong so they break through wakes better, or guys who are really good at dolphin kicking. All of those things still are useful in LCM swimming, they just matter less.

      I say hurray for real swimmers, go LCM! I’m sick of seeing guys who can go 47 100 fly go 57 in LCM (Purely hypothetical… ; ). Pathetic, the kind of patheticness we don’t need at trials.

    • #40822

      Athletic swimmers are better at SCY.

      Non-athletic swimmers are better at LCM.

      Swimmers, generally, are below average athletes.

    • #40823
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Thanks mac, now I understand your post a little better and agree w/ it, to a degree. Kind of like how the sprinters are overall more athletic than most d guys (at least on our teams).

    • #40824

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Athletic swimmers are better at SCY.

      Non-athletic swimmers are better at LCM.

      Swimmers, generally, are not good athletes.

      Depends how you define athlete. I think swimmers are far better athletes than skill athletes, but overall I just have a lot more respect for endurance athletes.

    • #40825
      SwexasTim
      Member

      I define an athlete as someone is at least decent at any sport. The more athletic you are the better you will pick up a sport you have never tried do well in it, so on and so on. That is how I define an ahtlete, most swimmers are not very athletic b/c out of the we can’t hardly walk without tripping ourselves, this is also why swimmer basketball is so entertaining.

    • #40826
      swim5599
      Member

      I was a really athletic guy and I was still better LCm then I was SCy.

      ANd I think you must train LCM in order to swim it. Can you get through the events training scy of course but you are not going to be as good.

    • #40827
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Both courses have their advantages. Long course allows for more endurance training and short course allows for more speed work. I think a good mix of the two would be the ideal. When I train my swimmers long course in the summer, we still use the diving well for sprints and have access to a short course pool in the evenings.

      Also, Amanda Beard had maybe 3 long course practices leading into the olympic trials. I think the same was true for Brendan Hansen. It’s Dave Salo’s philosophy to have breastrokers in particular train shorter distances in order to maintain technique and timing. If you don’t have access to a long course pool, it is a good idea to do 125’s instead of 100’s, 225’s instead of 200’s, etc. (as was suggested in a previous post).

      The endurance that can be gained training long course over the summer is extremely valuable. I’ve seen many examples of swimmers training hard over the summer (LCM) and then posting best times early in the short course season (SCY). On the other hand, if you haven’t trained LCM over the summer, your short course season (SCY) will likely suffer. It seems that LCM improves short course success more than SCY improves LCM success.

    • #40828
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      [quote=” The endurance that can be gained training long course over the summer is extremely valuable. I’ve seen many examples of swimmers training hard over the summer (LCM) and then posting best times early in the short course season (SCY). On the other hand, if you haven’t trained LCM over the summer, your short course season (SCY) will likely suffer. It seems that LCM improves short course success more than SCY improves LCM success.[/quote]

      the endurance is a factor that is very valuable, but you also have to consider the stroke break down over the longer course. LCM training might be great for some, and not great for others. I think I would rather have a SC practice where I can keep my stroke together for a longer period of time, with less endurance, then gain a lot of endurance with a sloppy broken down stroke.

    • #40829
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @CaseBrst10 wrote:

      the endurance is a factor that is very valuable, but you also have to consider the stroke break down over the longer course. LCM training might be great for some, and not great for others. I think I would rather have a SC practice where I can keep my stroke together for a longer period of time, with less endurance, then gain a lot of endurance with a sloppy broken down stroke.

      I totally agree. Though I’m not advocating mindless swimming in a LCM pool for the sake of endurance. You can throw in shorter sets for non-free strokes in order to hold technique for shorter distances. That, and continuing to train short course at least a few practices a week would be helpful.

    • #40830
      tigercolter
      Member

      wonderboy33 wrote

      Both courses have their advantages. Long course allows for more endurance training and short course allows for more speed work. I think a good mix of the two would be the ideal. When I train my swimmers long course in the summer, we still use the diving well for sprints and have access to a short course pool in the evenings.

      I totally agree with that statement. Long course is great for lengthening stroke, but speed work is generated from short course training.

Viewing 20 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.