K Vs. Chicago

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    • #12965
    • #43099
      aquaholic
      Member

      So subtracting out exhibitions – Chicago 167 – Kalamazoo 122.

      Always take the underdog with points against KZoo.

    • #43100

      Despite K getting thumped by 40 points, there were some good swims around the board.
      Bazzel-22.0 He’s just gonna keep getting faster. I expect him to be sub 22 at the Hope Quad…maybe a 21.8 or so.
      Julio’s 1000 was alright for him despite his constant vomit and fever this entire week. Silly Mexican.
      Booms- 1:00 is a good point going into taper..he could have a significant drop and be somewhere in the 58 range at MIAA. Also his 200 breast was solid. He keeps getting faster everytime he swims it in season. Has a solid shot at making that NCAA cut and going to nats.
      Ellis-good swim in the 200 back. Good in-season time for him.
      Brower-a good swim as well in the 200 back in season…about as fast as he went at EMU. He could have a good drop for MIAA and be anywhere from 1:55-1:57
      Dekker-200 IM was a solid showing. Despite being out with some shoulder problems, he still came through in the IM with a good performance.

      Some good swims with taper in sight and a few more meets to close out before MIAAs.

    • #43101
      silentp
      Member

      @Salad Fingers wrote:

      Despite K getting thumped by 40 points, there were some good swims around the board.
      Bazzel-22.0 He’s just gonna keep getting faster. I expect him to be sub 22 at the Hope Quad…maybe a 21.8 or so.
      Julio’s 1000 was alright for him despite his constant vomit and fever this entire week. Silly Mexican.
      Booms- 1:00 is a good point going into taper..he could have a significant drop and be somewhere in the 58 range at MIAA. Also his 200 breast was solid. He keeps getting faster everytime he swims it in season. Has a solid shot at making that NCAA cut and going to nats.
      Ellis-good swim in the 200 back. Good in-season time for him.
      Brower-a good swim as well in the 200 back in season…about as fast as he went at EMU. He could have a good drop for MIAA and be anywhere from 1:55-1:57
      Dekker-200 IM was a solid showing. Despite being out with some shoulder problems, he still came through in the IM with a good performance.

      Some good swims with taper in sight and a few more meets to close out before MIAAs.

      Wow, an insightful post by Salad Fingers… call me surprised. I was there and the guys swam well, Chicago just came out guns ablazin’. It should give them a lot of confidence heading into taper.

    • #43102
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Yeah the freestylers are looking good. Would that have been a PR for Bazzel prior to Eatern?

      I was a little disapponted that the 200 free relay was only a 1:28.00. With a 22 low lead off from Ellis the other 3 should have all been under 22. I can see them popping off a 1:26 mid really soon here.

    • #43103

      He was 21 low-mid off of a relay start in high school I think…but 22.0 flat start for him (prior to Eastern) is his best that I know of.

      And don’t worry P…every once in a while, I need to redeem myself for talking about Boys 10&U TAG swimming and Dan Kovacs.

    • #43104
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Salad Fingers wrote:

      Boys 10&U TAG swimming

      FYI it is just referred to as TAGS.

    • #43105
      swim5599
      Member

      What is up with Soriano? I have not seen him swim a breaststroke race in ages?

    • #43106
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      What is up with Soriano? I have not seen him swim a breaststroke race in ages?

      He will be back doing breastroke by MIAAs/NCAAs.

    • #43107
      Derek
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      What is up with Soriano? I have not seen him swim a breaststroke race in ages?

      He will be back doing breastroke by MIAAs/NCAAs.

      It’s gonna be a surprise attack.

    • #43108
      iamdonovan
      Member

      Well not anymore.

    • #43109

      He hasn’t done much all season. Does he have an injury or something? Sorry if this has already been discussed. I hope he come out of nowhere and goes a 55 low for miaa’s sake.

      And if he has a rough year, oh well. He has lots of time.

    • #43110
      DonCheadle
      Member

      My understanding is that he has not been swimming breaststroke as a precationary measure. He is not 100% but if it was anything serious he wouldn’t be swimming at all. I have been told that there is no doubt he will be swimming breasstroke at MIAA’s. For discussion sake, does Kzoo still win the 400 medley relay if they have Booms doing breaststroke:
      50.8
      58.0
      50.5
      46.2
      That is a 3:25.5 That seems pretty safe to win, but it isn’t a landslide.

    • #43111

      Here’s where I am putting Hope:

      Phil “Dirt” Heyboer – 52.5
      Brandon “Apparently no longer lane2allstar” King – 59.5
      Ryan “My uncle swam for K” Nelis – 49.3
      Matt “I made the olympics in Canada” Rose – 45.3

      3:26.6

      Those nicknames are atrocious.

      Kurt “Kurt Blohm” Blohm

    • #43112

      But given Fonzy’s natural athletic prowess, I don’t think it is out of the question for him to jump in at MIAAs and pull out a 57 low or even a 56 something. He just has that natural talent.

    • #43113
      Barack
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      Here’s where I am putting Hope:

      Phil “Dirt” Heyboer – 52.5
      Brandon “Apparently no longer lane2allstar” King – 59.5
      Ryan “My uncle swam for K” Nelis – 49.3
      Matt “I made the olympics in Canada” Rose – 45.3

      3:26.6

      You don’t think L2AS will improve from last year? He was 59.8 in the indy and 59.1 in the relay. He was 60.11 at Wheaton, which I believe is faster than last year. I think he could realistically be under 59, but if you are conservative and put him at the same time as last year, it makes it slightly more interesting.

    • #43114
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      I doubt King will improve that much, as he’s not that good.

    • #43115
      Martha
      Member

      Not that good? I’ll tell you what’s not that good… 7-9.

      What else is not that good is the logic of your post. How good he is has very little to do with how much he can improve which was the focus of Obama’s post.

      Another thing that is evidently not so “good” is the education that you cling on to like an adolescent Bill Cosby.

    • #43116
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      1. 7-9?? I dont understand

      2. I’m not trying to be logical, I’m trying to be blunt. King doesnt have a lot of potential, thus I doubt he will be much faster than last year.

      3. Like last year, I except him to get beat by 3 of K’s breastrokers.

      4. “cling onto like an adolescent bill cosby” weak.

      5. Get off this site King.

    • #43117
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      … like an adolescent Bill Cosby

      Yes, please explain this one, Martha.

      I’m sure that was a very witty comeback, but my knowledge of Bill Cosby as an adolescent is lacking so I am ignorant as to its relevance.

    • #43118
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Here’s my 2 cents, which of course has little revelance to the questions at hand,

      Captain Insano’s best nickname was kurt “kurt blohm” blohm its almost as good as Lindsey ‘the hunter” Hunter.

      I don’t want ot debate how much, but King will be faster.

      Along with Monkey Boy I’m not really w/ it on Bill Cosby as an adolescent, but the Cosby show was great.

      Without Fonzi the 4 med does become more interesting, but we all know Fonzi will hop in and go a 56, hurt or not hurt it doesn’t matter, Boss set the Wheaton pool record with his arm (mid forearm down) in a cast, when you got talent injuries hinder it but they don’t hide it.

    • #43119
      Negrodamus
      Member

      7-9 refers to the Bengals record this season. Not that that has any bearing in this argument.

    • #43120
      silentp
      Member

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      Here’s where I am putting Hope:

      Phil “Dirt” Heyboer – 52.5
      Brandon “Apparently no longer lane2allstar” King – 59.5
      Ryan “My uncle swam for K” Nelis – 49.3
      Matt “I made the olympics in Canada” Rose – 45.3

      3:26.6

      Those nicknames are atrocious.

      Kurt “Kurt Blohm” Blohm

      I agree with all of the predictions, except possibly the over for Heyboer and the under for King. I think King will split 58.9 this year. 3:26-mid sounds about right to me though.

      With Beckwith from Olivet popping off a 53-mid this past weekend, any chance Olivet gives them a run? If they did, here it how it could break down:
      Back: Even
      Breast: Olivet up by 3 (Meisner split 55-high last year)
      Fly: Hope catches by 2 (If Nelis is 49-mid or low, it would only take Koji or Rafe being 51-mid to low, which is very possible, especially since Koji has been there before I believe)
      Free: Hope would catch, but how much? Powers and Voss are both 46 flat start guys, so splitting 45-high wouldn’t surprise anyone…

      I don’t see it as likely, but it could happen. It’s a better race than the that for 1st, even if Fonsy isn’t 100% or Booms swims it.

    • #43121
      Martha
      Member

      I’ll tell you what has eluded me for years: the importance of an anthropomorphic monkey and someone named ‘lil k bastard.’

      King’s nickname should be Brandon “Not Martha” King…

      However, I will have you know that Martha is an excellent Quake 4 player.

      Oh, and I’ve met Fred Nelis and the guy really scares me. Clearly Ryan received the likely recessive rational gene in the Nelis family.

    • #43122
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Martha wrote:

      Not that good? I’ll tell you what’s not that good… 7-9.

      What else is not that good is the logic of your post. How good he is has very little to do with how much he can improve which was the focus of Obama’s post.

      Another thing that is evidently not so “good” is the education that you cling on to like an adolescent Bill Cosby.

      Sweet! I love it when someone thinks they are posting anonymously so they actually post their true thoughts. The last time I remember this happening was the summer of 2006 when some chump came on here and said that Hope was going to mop the floor with Kzoo in the medley relays.

    • #43123
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Martha wrote:

      Oh, and I’ve met Fred Nelis and the guy really scares me.

      That is awesome, you take a personal shot at a teammate’s family member because he went to Kzoo. Man, you are a great guy!

    • #43124
      swim5599
      Member

      Not to be nit picky but Boss did not set the Wheaton pool record the year his hand was in the cast, because he went 55.0 and 2:00.0 the year before. I think if Soriano does not swim on that 4 Medley it will be closer, but Kalamazoo will still win.

    • #43125
      Martha
      Member

      Yeah, I suppose that was off color… Fred is a really cool, smart guy and I like him… just different that’s all (the real author of these posts is surely strange). No disrespect to Fred I take it back, even anonymously.

      Yet, how can you not expect an irrational reply by someone from the Hope front with a comment like “he’s not that good.” Several Hope guys said they expected to see your breastroker put up a solid swim despite having relatively sub par performances this season and you come back with that shit. At least you can expect to get what is coming to you and that is what Martha is all about.. that and homemaking.

    • #43126
      Derek
      Member

      I don’t think Rose will go 45.3 – Look at the number crunching I did in the attached spreadsheet. I predict that Rose will swim somewhere between a 46.0 and 46.96. Realistically he is more likely to be in the 46.0 range, but based on past performance and trends, he is not likely to be under 46.0. That will hurt this relay significantly.

      [attachment=0:2ttj4fv9]Rose100free.xls[/attachment:2ttj4fv9]

    • #43127
      99 Red
      Member

      Holy Cow! We can attach spreadsheets? Draft is going to be crazy this year!

    • #43128
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      1-0.

      Thoughts negrodamus?

    • #43129
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Alright Derek, to be honest I really only think I understand your spreadsheet, but I am not really sure. (never want to misinterpret something on here and get my soul ripped out by a systematical attack to be headed by low tide btw the railing of pinto was both impressive and disturbing) 😕 What I do understand is that in it you clearly show that Rose splits under 46 on both relays he was on at MIAAs. So because he swam slower at NCAAs last year his MIAA times will be slower this year? Is that the point of your spreadsheet, if so, do you even remember what its like to be a swimmer? I don’t think you can relate the difference between leagues and nationals for ONE year to how someone will swim at leagues the next. Sure if you want to take his league times from this year and predict his national swims thats great, I see correlation there, but not here.

      The only thing your spreadsheet proves is he was 45.1 and 45.3 at MIAAs last year, I would think that saying he would go a 45.3 on the MR is conservative. But that is why we have forums to disagree, debate, and eventually make a nonsense verbal attack including bill cosby.

    • #43130
      Derek
      Member

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      do you even remember what its like to be a swimmer? I don’t think you can relate the difference between leagues and nationals for ONE year to how someone will swim at leagues the next.

      My memory only serves me for 2 years at any given time. Made college tough, but switching majors easy.

      I never swam at nationals, so maybe I simply don’t have the perspective that you do – I’ve always figured that if a team values the meet then swimmers are ready to swim their best at both meets.

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      The only thing your spreadsheet proves is he was 45.1 and 45.3 at MIAAs last year, I would think that saying he would go a 45.3 on the MR is conservative.

      I wouldn’t call it conservative. You have suggested that we can only consider data from one meet. The average of this times in the 100 free at that meet was 45.65, so you are still estimating a drop in time. If you really want to be picky about it, you can say that you can only consider his swims from exactly identical swims – MIAA finals in the 400MR. That means that he has previously demonstrated that he can go a 45.17 and in that case, you are not being conservative, you are defying your own logic and not giving him much respect. Of course, even though it doesn’t make sense I can understand how you would average his fastest time from that meet and his average time from that meet, resulting you you making a “conservative” guess of 45.65 + 45.17 = 90.82; 90.82 / 2 = 45.41. This is almost exactly your suggested time. Was this your thinking?

    • #43131
      Barack
      Member

      I think you guys make some interesting points about Rose. I think he will be about where he was last year (which is fast). It’s hard to go 45.1 consistently. I would say that he will do it because it is a Hope relay. I still don’t get how those guys manage to pull off those kinds of splits.

    • #43132
      SwexasTim
      Member

      well my own perspective from nationals is that it is always tough to come all the way down for leagues and then hit it right again for nats. I always had to put MIAA first not only from a team standpoint, but from an individual b/c if I wasn’t on at MIAA I wasn’t going to nats. The point I was making about remembering your days of swimming was that even if you were tapered sometimes you have an off meet, or things aren’t clicking just right, I’m not saying that is what rose had, but two meets doesn’t make a trend, especially when you are on two separate tapers 4-5 weeks apart. I don’t want to get into a discussion over data and trends, my point is that if he went 45 low last year, why not this year. We all know thats not written in stone, but if everyone else we talk about gets at least consideration for a few tenths dropped, why not rose, why are we tacking on time?

      Now maybe I’m crossing a line saying this, but coaching rose last year, knowing him as a swimmer, I would say he is (like myself) much more of a relay swimmer. Something about being on a relay makes him swim faster (and I mean above and beyond the relay start). Your opinion w/ data is 46.0-46.9 I get that, I just don’t think your particular data is right to judge his MIAA time, perhaps something similar to what you have, only w/ Midseason taper and leagues would be better. Your data, if correct, will have him continue to follow a downward trend, ending I guessing somewhere in the 47 mid range his senior year. I think even you will agree that isn’t likely. I personally think we will see similar times, I think faster, but like barack said, 45 low is hard to do consistently.

    • #43133
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      I’ll give rose credit, i think he’ll split 44.9.

    • #43134

      That would be a mighty impressive swim…probably the swim of the meet unless someone else can pull something out.

    • #43135
      Barack
      Member

      I think we also need to consider where the MIAA meet is being held. I don’t want to resurrect the debate about HCAC, but the general trend is that times are swum faster elsewhere. Now, we know that everyone will be swimming in the same pool, so it doesn’t matter for the order of finish. Here we are talking about splits and I’m a little skeptical about a 44.9 split at HCAC. If it happened, it would indeed be the swim of the meet in my mind.

    • #43136
      maverick1
      Member

      hmmm, it would be a good swim, but i wouldn’t consider it the swim of the meet…..i’d look to paul ellis, paul krone or paul heyboer for something special in their individual swims to qualify as the swim of the meet.

    • #43137
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      Nelis could also have the swim of the meet.

    • #43138
      Derek
      Member

      Hold on, does this mean that alumni meet swims won’t count for swim of the meet? I’m putting my money on Andrew Kurtz’s performance in the “swim ‘n puke” as the swim of the meet.

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