Interesting Question started at practice one day…

Forums General Women’s Forum Interesting Question started at practice one day…

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    • #12909
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      So, some of us during practice one day thought of this

      How many girls in the nation (US, not just D3) could make 100x100s on 1:00.

      Girls usually swim faster relatively in practice than guys do, and with katie hoff and kate ziegler wrecking those distance free AMR records this past weekend, we’re just not really sure.

    • #42249
      t3hhammer
      Member

      Katie Hoff and Kate Ziegler. Hayley Piersol probably could’ve done it but now she’s taking some time off. Laure Manaudou…that’s about it.
      100x100s on 1 is not just physically taxing, but also very difficult mentally. Only the toughest elite swimmers could do this, not just because of the physical aspects but also because they would need to have a razor-sharp focus the whole way through the set.

    • #42250

      how many guys could even do 100 x 100 on 60 sec, thats a tall order. i dont think any woman could do it, let alone many guys

    • #42251
      griz
      Member

      Here’s an interesting dataset from New Trier High School on the subject…

      http://www.newtrier.k12.il.us/athletics/sports/boys_swim/100×100/100x100_frontpage.htm

    • #42252
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      @nemesis enforcer wrote:

      how many guys could even do 100 x 100 on 60 sec, thats a tall order. i dont think any woman could do it, let alone many guys

      I think there are plenty of D1 MidD/D swimmers who could do it. Ok, by plenty, I don’t mean 100s, but maybe 1-2 per big time D1 program.

    • #42253
      t3hhammer
      Member

      I don’t think there are that many that could do it. I think elite distance swimmers could do it and that’s about it. Casebreast, try 100x100s on any interval. Try to fight off not only the physical fatigue of swimming 10k but also the mental fatigue of, say, being at number 50 and realizing you still have 50 to go…
      My point is that there are not that many people with the ability to fight that much physical/mental strain that comes with 100x100s on 1.

    • #42254
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      doing something like 100x100s on 1:30 would rank much lower in the physically demanding category, and shift to the very mind numbingly boring. doing 10,000 yards in a 2.5 hours isn’t a huge deal, yes, I agree it would be tough to fight off the dullness, but on such a slow interval, I don’t think it would be as tough as you make it seem, especially with a whole team doing it with you. Granted, I have never done that many, I’ve done 40, maybe 50, I can’t really remember, but never 100.

    • #42255
      The Treat
      Member

      @CaseBrst10 wrote:

      doing something like 100x100s on 1:30 would rank much lower in the physically demanding category, and shift to the very mind numbingly boring. doing 10,000 yards in a 2.5 hours isn’t a huge deal, yes, I agree it would be tough to fight off the dullness, but on such a slow interval, I don’t think it would be as tough as you make it seem, especially with a whole team doing it with you. Granted, I have never done that many, I’ve done 40, maybe 50, I can’t really remember, but never 100.

      ive done 100×100’s before and i’ve also done a 10000 for time. boredom was an issue, but not getting energy half way through was much worse. you need to either eat a powerbar or two before you start, or eat them throughout (tough in a 10k). i did 100×100’s w/o having proper nutrition before hand and it absolutely killed me. then i did a 10k for time w/ proper nutrition, and even though it was very hard and i started to fade at the end, it wasn’t as bad as the 100×100’s. i dont know how many calories you’re burning per hour when swimming 100×100’s or a 10k for time, but it’s gotta be near 700-800, if not more. if 100×100’s takes 2.5-3 hours, depending on your interval, you could burn over 2000 calories in one workout. that’s a tough loss to deal with. there is a big difference between 40/50 and 100.

    • #42256
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      Ouch a 10k for time? I don’t think I could count that….

    • #42257
      The Treat
      Member

      @CaseBrst10 wrote:

      Ouch a 10k for time? I don’t think I could count that….

      yeah. LCM too. we had assistant coaches/people who were injured keep track of how many laps left. it was kinda fun, in a weird, sadistic way.

    • #42258
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      wow… think it’d be kinda funny if the ass.coaches/injured people used lap counters…though I supposed LCM wouldn’t be as bad to count…

    • #42259

      This topic and subsequent posts seem to have morphed their way to discussing the question in terms of the “Y” chromosome………………….I thought this was a women’s forum.

    • #42260
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      This topic and subsequent posts seem to have morphed their way to discussing the question in terms of the “Y” chromosome………………….I thought this was a women’s forum.

      Yes, god forbid someone post in here.

    • #42261
      nicole31311
      Member

      I’ve done 100×100’s before in LCM, boredom was definitely an issue, although that may also be attributed to the fact that right before the 100’s we had just done 100×50’s, 25 of each stroke. That had to be the longest work-out of my life.

    • #42262
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Better yet, who would want to do a set like that? Absolutely worthless.

    • #42263
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I heard of a coach that had kids (under 18) do 100 x 100’s of breastroke. That coach should be investigated.

    • #42264
      nicole31311
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Better yet, who would want to do a set like that? Absolutely worthless.

      I don’t really know, it wasn’t that bad though. I guess it is just kind of cool to be able to say that I completed it, there were some kids who bowed out around the 60th 100 that night. We knew we were doing the 100x50s but couldn’t understand why our coaches move the practice up a couple of hours, then after we were done with the 50’s they told us about the 100’s, I guess they were just on a power trip!

    • #42265
      Monti
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      Better yet, who would want to do a set like that? Absolutely worthless.

      I agree 100%. Thats right up there with 5 x 1650’s. Just flat out dull.

    • #42266
      wonderboy33
      Member

      What were your coaches doing during these sets? Reading the paper, catching up on christmas cards, or staring blankly at their watches?

    • #42267
      Monti
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      What were your coaches doing during these sets? Reading the paper, catching up on christmas cards, or staring blankly at their watches?

      Pretty sure they were doing what I am doing when the team is hopped up on xmas candy….enjoying the peace and quiet.

      I hate mindless sets. I prefer sets along the lines of 50 x 50 @ :50 or Descending 50’s (subtract 1 second from the interval each time and see who can make them on the fastest interval).

    • #42268
      maverick1
      Member

      when i was living at the training center in colorado springs (as a triathlete, was never good enough as swimmer) i was able to watch the national distance camp do 10×1500 on 1 minute rest, every other for time, men and women, they looked quite misearable

      also during the 10 days that they were there, maddie crippen did a 10,000m IM in 2 hours 20 minutes or so, it broke down to being under 1:25 per 100 which i was quite impressed with

    • #42269
      Derek
      Member

      I doubt that these kinds of sets make somebody a great swimmer, but being able to do them at the Maddie Crippen-type level is a pretty good indication that you are a great swimmer.

    • #42270
      Colbybr
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I heard of a coach that had kids (under 18) do 100 x 100’s of breastroke. That coach should be investigated.

      Isn’t it way more cruel to make 20 year old kids do this? I dont know about everyone else but I feel like my pre-developed no muscle 14 year old body was way more equipped to bang out 10,000 yards of breaststroke.

    • #42271
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I heard of a coach that had kids (under 18) do 100 x 100’s of breastroke. That coach should be investigated.

      Isn’t it way more cruel to make 20 year old kids do this? I dont know about everyone else but I feel like my pre-developed no muscle 14 year old body was way more equipped to bang out 10,000 yards of breaststroke.

      I think it’s ridiculous regardless but I think it’s a crime to have young kids do it due to the very fact that they aren’t fully grown yet. You’re just asking for a serious injury and probably the end of a career. I know I wouldn’t want to swim anymore if I had the fun taken out of it in this way.

    • #42272
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      @Derek wrote:

      I doubt that these kinds of sets make somebody a great swimmer, but being able to do them at the Maddie Crippen-type level is a pretty good indication that you are a great swimmer.

      I couldn’t agree more, I think thats part of why the question was posed. Sets like these are nothing more than some benchmarks for comparison. Sports always need benchmarks. I’m sure doing these sets don’t provide much in the way of making you a good swimmer, but they do really highlight the abilities of those who can do successfully complete them.

    • #42273
      Colbybr
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I heard of a coach that had kids (under 18) do 100 x 100’s of breastroke. That coach should be investigated.

      Isn’t it way more cruel to make 20 year old kids do this? I dont know about everyone else but I feel like my pre-developed no muscle 14 year old body was way more equipped to bang out 10,000 yards of breaststroke.

      I think it’s ridiculous regardless but I think it’s a crime to have young kids do it due to the very fact that they aren’t fully grown yet. You’re just asking for a serious injury and probably the end of a career. I know I wouldn’t want to swim anymore if I had the fun taken out of it in this way.

      But what about the people that enjoy training this way?

    • #42274
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      But what about the people that enjoy training this way?

      Yeah, I’ve heard of that guy. He quit back in the 80’s.

    • #42275
      swimbadger
      Member

      No matter how much I disliked doing sets like 4,000 IM’s for time, 6,000 Backstrokes etc… these are the sets that I still talk about doing, not 20 x 25 @ 1:00 at threshold or anything like that. Which could I do today…not the 4,000 IM for sure, but I still talk like I could.

    • #42276
      Colbybr
      Member

      @swimbadger wrote:

      No matter how much I disliked doing sets like 4,000 IM’s for time, 6,000 Backstrokes etc… these are the sets that I still talk about doing, not 20 x 25 @ 1:00 at threshold or anything like that. Which could I do today…not the 4,000 IM for sure, but I still talk like I could.

      I know this might sound like a stupid question, but did you swim for Badger? Because then you probably ended up doing a lot of stuff like this. The coach I work with also spent a couple summers with John Collins. I am trying to wrap my mind around this way of training. On the one hand, I am a guy who believes in lower yardage, more rest, higher intensity reps. On the other hand, teams like Badger, Germantown, Peddie and countless others that I’m not listing, have been at the top of our sport effectively pounding kids into the ground with this kind of stuff. And so I always find myself questioning what really is the best way.

    • #42277
      swimbadger
      Member

      I did not swim for badger, I am a University of Wisconsin grad after transferring from Calvin. I am still not sure of the value of that kind of training. I know that when I was swimming there were a lot fewer senior level kids dedicated to the sport than there are now when I am coaching. I think that this is in large part because of the sets that we did. Today, my workouts are a mix between more “traditional” methods of training from the 80’s and 90’s mixed in with long rest sets. I think that the combination allows for some variety as well as the type of sets that the swimmers can brag about completing, something that helps a lot with the mental edge come taper time.

    • #42278
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      I know this might sound like a stupid question, but did you swim for Badger? Because then you probably ended up doing a lot of stuff like this. The coach I work with also spent a couple summers with John Collins. I am trying to wrap my mind around this way of training. On the one hand, I am a guy who believes in lower yardage, more rest, higher intensity reps. On the other hand, teams like Badger, Germantown, Peddie and countless others that I’m not listing, have been at the top of our sport effectively pounding kids into the ground with this kind of stuff. And so I always find myself questioning what really is the best way.

      I appreciate the fact that you question this topic as I have done the same. The best will always rise to the top, regardless of training philosophy and plan. The teams you listed have really fast kids join their team all of the time based on the reputation of the club. Think of how many kids end up quitting swimming and joining other sports due to the high yardage philosophy. Is it truly the best measure of success to say that you can get the best out of only those who are strong enough to handle it anyway? Or, is it important to provide challenging and stimulating practices that allow many kids, across the spectrum, to reach a higher level? I believe in the latter.

    • #42279
      Low Tide
      Member

      For age group swimming it really should be the latter.

      My age group team ended up getting a coach who believed in pounding in the yardage — it was awful. He lost tons of younger swimmers who just were getting started with the sport. Yes, he had a decent amount of kids who stuck with it and went on to have a lot of success, but they would have had that success anyways given their talent. I think it is utterly idiotic for an age group coach to be doing this.

      Now if you are coaching Club Wolverine, go for it. Not that I think anyone but a handful of distance swimmers ever get anything useful out of this.

    • #42280
      Sir Carl
      Member

      I know this topic is kind of dead, but I came across this on the USA swimming website.

      http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/7f393af3-ede9-4850-9a7d-b0b8c46194b1/Internet%20Distance%20Challenge%20Records.doc

      Kate Ziegler did a timed 5000 in 50:05 in 2005. Based on that I would say it might be possible for her to do 100X100s on a minute, but I doubt there are really too many others, if any. I don’t think there too many men that could make this set.

    • #42281
      Colbybr
      Member

      Well, I think probably the biggest reason programs are pounding yardage, as I have thought about it, is a sense of insecurity. The idea that this is the way it has “always been done” and has always worked. Coaches don’t want to depart from their old school winning formula. There’s a good chance there’s a better way imo. Maybe we should break this off into another thread and discuss training myths.

    • #42282
      swim5599
      Member

      There were men that could do it in the past. Guys like Bobby Hackett, and Brian Goodell. I am guessing Vendt might be one of the only Americans I can think of that could make this. On the women’s side I am sure both Zeigler and Hoff could do it.

    • #42283

      @swim5599 wrote:

      There were men that could do it in the past. Guys like Bobby Hackett, and Brian Goodell. I am guessing Vendt might be one of the only Americans I can think of that could make this. On the women’s side I am sure both Zeigler and Hoff could do it.

      So, wait, I’m confused. If Ziegler can swim a 5000 in just *over* 1min/100 pace, why would you two think she could make 100×100’s on 1min with an open turn every 4th turn? This logic escapes me.

    • #42284
      swim5599
      Member

      Because i said so HHAHAH. SHit I don’t know I missed the post about her 5000 for time, maybe she can’t.

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