huck fope?

IT does bother me. I mean, can the guy not spell? (this joke loses its zing when it gets edited out!)

PS: A crew of people pissed on the door at 1998 league meet.
Greg Raczniak mooned the hope team atthe Wheaton meet in 1996
“stork” pissed in Kzoo’s pool from the deck a while back.

THis stuff is meaningless. I know you are going to have a hard time believing this, but I have actually said a few bad things about the folks from Hope myself.

@quacker wrote:

3. Coach Kathy has one baby and all of a sudden there are pseudo-curse words ON her swimmers. Kathy, if you’re on maternity leave, come back.

You think Kathy should interupt her maternity schedule over this. Nahh, thats not an overreaction.

I personally think tanning is pretty lame — unless you are going on a trip, burn easily and hope to avoid it with a little base — or you are Ron Bramble.

That said, there was a weak point in my life where I went to a couple tanning sessions — it was for a chick, incredibly lame and I am embarrassed to admit it. Tanning is a justifiable “make fun of me, please” offense though.

If he indeed had “Huck Fope” tanned on his back, that might actually make the tanning more tolerable in my eye. Did he go tanning for the sole purpose of having a white “Huck Fope” on his back (that’s actually kinda cool), or was it merely a silly diversion from his regularly scheduled bronzing sessions? These are important questions to ask.

Ultimately, any swimmer who goes out of his way to harmlessly raise the meter on the Kzoo/Hope rivaly gets a “thumbs up” from me.

@quacker wrote:

1. It sounds like it actually happened. No marker, but tanning. Classy in so many ways.

Ripping on a Kzoo kid for having something tanned onto his skin? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle a nice tawny bronze…

@quacker wrote:

Swexas wanted a bit more on this, so why not its own thread?

1. It sounds like it actually happened. No marker, but tanning. Classy in so many ways.

2. I’m just really pleased to hear that a K guy is tanning after all of the criticisms that Hope guys have gotten from some K guys on the forum. Perhaps it was a bit of irony on the part of Ellis? Unfortunately, if it was true that he tanned that into his back, he’ll have to tan even more to get it out before the league. He could end up tanner than Lanser. Or I guess he could swim in a full body suit. eh.

3. Coach Kathy has one baby and all of a sudden there are pseudo-curse words ON her swimmers. Kathy, if you’re on maternity leave, come back.

4. Maybe this is a sneak preview of K’s theme for the MIAA meet. The banner will pretty much kick ass I can tell you that. huck fopes all around!

Okay, okay, let’s take it easy. Ellis got a temporary henna tattoo which read “huck fope” as a joke during the training trip in Fort Lauderdale. Given the fact that the beach in Florida tends to be a bit more sunny than beautiful kalamazoo, MI, the words were tanned into his skin (so make no mistake, he did not get a hope-esque fake bake).

My opinion of him has dropped considerably, although it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t care either way…

The reason for this is not because he dislikes Hope (although I doubt he has any personal reasons other than what he is told by alumni, which is another issue completely)… it is because of the lack of creativity. People have been saying “buck the fuckeyes” et cetera for years and it’s getting really lame.

Come up with something original or pertainant to things happening in the MIAA to avoid looking like a half-wit with no imagination.

Well, I have to give him points for creativity. Having something tanned into your skin has all the desired effects of a tattoo, but without the permanency. It’s kind of like pissing “huck fope” into the snow if you ask me. And from a motivation standpoint, who can complain? The Hope team already saw it, and the Kzoo team gets to see it every day at practice. If he would have asked for some sage alumni advice, I would have suggested a “26”, but I’m lame, so it’s a good thing he didn’t ask.

Now what would really be funny is if he altered it for league meet to say “no, really, huck fope”

@DonCheadle wrote:

PS: A crew of people pissed on the door at 1998 league meet.
Greg Raczniak mooned the hope team atthe Wheaton meet in 1996
“stork” pissed in Kzoo’s pool from the deck a while back.

Awesome.

@Captain Insano wrote:

a half-wit with no imagination.

a la someone who attends THE ohio state university?

If you dont think Ellis’ idea was funny, whatever, but it’s ridiculous that people are making such a big deal out of it. Saying stuff like “that really brings my image of him down” is completely unnecessary. Just because he did something slighty offensive to your team, doesnt say anything about his personality or character. Knowing Ellis, making comments like that probably are just pissing him off to the point that he will want to not only beat every Hope swimmer but embarrass them. Hope vs Kalamazoo is a rivalry, shit talking and pranks should be expected. Things just wouldnt be as fun on either side if neither one of us felt any pride in beating the other. I think as a conference we support each other, as much as I hate to say it, I enjoy watching Hope’s team do well as long as it doesnt directly effect them beating us. Anyways, I thought the joke was appropriate and welcome a Hope response at MIAA’s

Come up with something original or pertainant to things happening in the MIAA to avoid looking like a half-wit with no imagination.

While a lengthy dissertation on current events within the MIAA would be difficult to decipher in the form of a temporary tattoo, I thought I would provide a thoughtful alternative to the “Huck Fope” standard:

Now that’s funny.

Point taken on “THE.” That wasn’t my choice.

If Hope swimmers retaliate with something equally or even more offensive, I will be sure to do my part and act indignant about it. Good job Kurt!

@Nasty Natti wrote:

If you dont think Ellis’ idea was funny, whatever, but it’s ridiculous that people are making such a big deal out of it. Saying stuff like “that really brings my image of him down” is completely unnecessary. Just because he did something slighty offensive to your team, doesnt say anything about his personality or character. Knowing Ellis, making comments like that probably are just pissing him off to the point that he will want to not only beat every Hope swimmer but embarrass them. Hope vs Kalamazoo is a rivalry, shit talking and pranks should be expected. Things just wouldnt be as fun on either side if neither one of us felt any pride in beating the other. I think as a conference we support each other, as much as I hate to say it, I enjoy watching Hope’s team do well as long as it doesnt directly effect them beating us. Anyways, I thought the joke was appropriate and welcome a Hope response at MIAA’s

So, what you’re saying is that if any other team had a “zuck foo” or any other saying similar to that tanned into their backs, you wouldn’t take any offense whatsoever from that? You would actually applaud it and then scheme up a return prank? This is of course assuming you are from Kalamazoo… I am willing to bet any similar prank done by a Hope swimmer would have raised cries of unsportsmanlike conduct or foul-play from all of the Kzoo alum in the forum. I am actually looking to Hope to be the more mature team and not return fire. Whether that is likely or not is a completely different story.

@Nasty Natti wrote:

Knowing Ellis, making comments like that probably are just pissing him off to the point that he will want to not only beat every Hope swimmer but embarrass them.

And so what if HE beats every Hope swimmer or even goes so far as to embarrass them, he’s just one person. Last time I checked, it took a whole team to win the MIAA’s…not just one person.

Actually, a “zuck foo” tattoo would look pretty sweet. Plus it sounds kinda like Kung Fu. I don’t know that the joke was appropriate, but getting a small prank war going could certainly throw some fun into the mix. Unless, of course, we start buying ads for fake proposals at baseball games. That might be taking it a bit far.

Of course I would take offense if the other team had a zuck foo tatoo. Maybe for about 3-3.5 minutes I would think to myself, dang, they got us good. Then I would let it go. If anything, I would want to beat that team even more. Whats the harm in that? Isn’t that what competition is all about? Maybe its not so much a lack of our maturity, but your lack of a sense of humor. Last time I checked, Ellis was the topic of discussion, thus I found it appropriate to discuss him instead of examining Kalamazoo’s team as a whole. Make sense?

I heard parker and Mclovin’ had the same tattoes, did they have the commen sense to tan them out or did ellis work to keep his in?

Also natti, that is not what competition is about, enough said. However the fact that you want to discuss ellis as an individual and not the team as a whole shows me you know this isn’t right and sadly enough I give you credit for that even if you won’t openly admit it was wrong.

ps donovan, that was hilarious, though I like the audition tape prank better, mostly b/c he was horrible.

I am willing to bet any similar prank done by a Hope swimmer would have raised cries of unsportsmanlike conduct or foul-play from all of the Kzoo alum in the forum.

A few questions: Are you serious? Do you actually read this forum and the posts from the Kzoo alumni? What on earth gave you the impression this forum was a beacon of maturity and sportsmanlike conduct?

It’s a slightly funny/stupid little gaff (depending on which team you are from). Why get bent out of shape over it?

I never said anything about this forum being a beacon of maturity. I simply stated that people would’ve gotten pissed. End of story.
And who said I was bent out of shape? I was simply discussing. Let’s not go assigning underlying meanings to people’s posts and instead let’s just read them as they are, how about that?

Go Scots!

Go Brits!

I will take the line of being against the tatoos. I think it is a slightly smaller issue than some have thought but found it a bit disrespectful. There has been much of this in the past, yes, but that doesn’t mean we need to continue that trend going forward. Perhaps it’s something good to learn from though, on both sides. I look forward to reading/hearing about a hard fought MIAA battle; one that is earned in the pool and not marred by events outside of the swimming.

well put sir. I second the motion.

i think that as long as things don’t get out of hand that a little bit of fun like this is ok (not good, not great, ok), i remember times when there were warming up issues and our banner being pulled off the wall, but i think that swimmers ended up venting in that fashion because of other issues (bad meet, god-complex gone awry or maybe just plain old childishness).

the thing needs to be stressed here is that everyone needs to respect their competition, keep personal issues to themselves and let the meet unfold in the pool like silentp said. it’s like trash talking the nfl, it’s alright as long as when you knock the other guy over you offer him a hand to help him off the turf/grass.

everyone trained hard this season, hopefully any extra anger will turn into anxiousness for miaas.

For those holding your breath, I will weigh in with final grades on the subject matter:

1) Paul Ellis’ temporary tattoo/tan of “Huck Fope”: C+
Slightly better than average. Now if it were a permanent tattoo, that would be a whole other debate.

2) Duck’s alternative: A+
Per usual, unparalleled in vision and aplomb.

3) Nehemiah Ingram’s use or even knowledge of the word “henna”: D
Get a haircut, hippy.

4) Milhouse’s suggestion of “26”: C-
You are capable of better.

5) SilentP’s after-school special both sides really learned a lot today post: Incomplete
I fell asleep reading it.

5) Registering an account for the sole purpose of commenting on this topic: F
As the hipsters say, LAME.

I think the tanning/temporary tatoo is disrespectful and completely classless. If a Hope swimmer would have shown up to a christmas break practice with Kuck Fzoo coach patnott would have made them leave. If that makes Paul Ellis feel good about himself, good for him. I’m glad he cares enough about himself to have a tanned remark on his back that really doesn’t mean huck fope. It’s one thing to think it, it’s another to have it be semi permanent and tanned into your skin. I have had many of choice words towards Kzoo but to have it tanned on my skin for coaches, administrators, and parents to see is another. I bet his parents in the crowd were so proud.

I don’t think that K alums would be offended if somebody put “Zuck Foo” on their back in a sunburn tattoo – I think we’d be pissed that we didn’t do it first. You have to remember that Hope’s vision statement includes the following:

@http://www.hope.edu/admissions/christian/ wrote:

Hope will be recognized nationally as a leading Christian college, ecumenical in character while rooted in the Reformed tradition. Hope will offer students outstanding opportunities for development in Christian faith through study, worship, and service.

While this is K’s mission statement:

@http://www.kzoo.edu/pres/plan/ wrote:

Kalamazoo College prepares its graduates to better understand, live successfully within, and provide enlightened leadership to a richly diverse and increasingly complex world.

Which college do YOU think is going to be more offended by the suggestion of the “F” word?

oh, and just to be clear – I agree that it isn’t really something that should be around for administrators, parents, etc. as Stevo brought up, but I also think we could remember that it is meaningless and there are a few other things that deserve your anger and attention far more.

@Derek wrote:

Which college do YOU think is going to be more offended by the suggestion of the “F” word?

Did I miss something? What “F” word?

haha, fair enough… an insinuation of the word.

Guys, guys, guys! This aggression will not stand, man. Let’s put all this animosity towards each other aside for a bit, and try to find something we can all hate together as a cohesive MIAA community. Like Hillary Clinton.

I’m down with that. But be careful… she might start crying if we do.

@El Duderino wrote:

Guys, guys, guys! This aggression will not stand, man. Let’s put all this animosity towards each other aside for a bit, and try to find something we can all hate together as a cohesive MIAA community. Like Hillary Clinton.

Rather than Hillary, I suggest Karl Rove.

I’m sticking with Hillary. You say tomato, I say frigid bitch.

The funny thing is, this was done last year too. One of them survived all the way to MIAA’s and Nats and no one seemed to notice.

While this is K’s mission statement:

http://www.kzoo.edu/pres/plan/ wrote:Kalamazoo College prepares its graduates to better understand, live successfully within, and provide enlightened leadership to a richly diverse and increasingly complex world.

Which college do YOU think is going to be more offended by the suggestion of the “F” word?

So Derek you’re telling me that by insinuating to F another school is helping to live successfully, and providing leadership in a richly DIVERSE world? Diversity is also trying to adapt to live with those crazy christians who think having a semi-permanent Huck Fope on there body to be offensive.

negrodemus, you should be so proud of last year.

@SwexasTim wrote:

I heard parker and Mclovin’ had the same tattoes, did they have the commen sense to tan them out or did ellis work to keep his in?
.

Actually ellis went back one day in florida to have it “re touched” because it was peeling, and he got chemical burns from the new coat, and had to rub most of it off. The wording was beat red for a few days, so if ellis has committed any malfeasance, he did pay a price for it.

@Stevo wrote:

Diversity is also trying to adapt to live with those crazy christians who think having a semi-permanent Huck Fope on there body to be offensive.

I believe the word you are looking for would be “their.” Their bodies, not there bodies. Just my 2 cents.

Stevo, I’m not saying that we’re proud of last year. I’m just stating the fact that this occurred last year and no one complained.

I’m not sensing that we’ve taken the Dude’s suggestion seriously enough.

@Stevo wrote:

So Derek you’re telling me that by insinuating to F another school is helping to live successfully, and providing leadership in a richly DIVERSE world? Diversity is also trying to adapt to live with those crazy christians who think having a semi-permanent Huck Fope on there body to be offensive.

No Stevo, I’m suggested that if there given the two statements of belief, one of the schools is far more likely to take offense to negative language than the other. In our country, the Christian faith is often associated with avoiding negative language (see the campaign by conservative groups petitioning the FCC to ban certain language and images from television). You may be reading more into my point than was intended, although I agree with your point that the fake words and the real words they insinuate are offensive to you. I’m just suggesting that given the character of your school (which many people find desirable), it is likely people from Hope will find that insinuation more offensive and people from K are likely to find it less offensive, given the character of K (which many people also find desirable). It is simply a recognition that generally speaking, people from Hope and K are going to have different things that they care about. In this case, if you want to speak in more concrete terms, I hypothesize that given a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being most offensive, students from Hope would rank the word “f*ck” word higher and students from K would rank it lower on average in a poll of a sufficient sampling of the student body. If I were to attempt to explain these numbers, the vision statement from Hope and the mission statement from K would be powerful evidence for the cause of this difference.

Also, diversity to me does not mean trying to adapt. In the context of that sentence, it really means ability to understand, empathize, and express oneself to people from different backgrounds with differing belief structures.

Note: I should recognize that as the guy that runs this site, I have decided that the word “f*ck” is a negative word to have around. My reasons are probably more utilitarian than you might assume.

@iamdonovan wrote:

I’m down with that. But be careful… she might start crying if we do.

Nah, she’s tough about that kind of stuff. It’s when you ask her if her schedule is challenging that she’ll cry.

When I wrote my previous post, I didn’t know that the “tatoo” was left over from winter training. I suppose I am a little more sympathetic now that it seems he didn’t plan this out just for the meet. I am sure he is a cool guy, but when all I know about him is “huck fope,” what am I suppose to think?

With regards to his reaction… if he gets pissed off at my post and goes a 48 in the 100 backstroke, I’ll be happy to have fueled someone’s positive aggression for miaa’s sake… Just as long as he doesn’t do it on the medley.

If the tatoo was permanent I would have been less harsh, but mostly out of pity. Anyone outside of west michigan would probably think that was his nickname or something.

Brian is exactly right.. several Kzoo alums would have had a conniption if someone on Hope’s team had done this. We’d never the end of it.

Lastly, happy mlk day my brothers of our mothers!!!!

Anyone outside of west michigan would probably think that was his nickname or something.

Lol, I had thought of that — sort of like “Huck Fin”!

Do you think Twain secretly had it in for some chinese dude named Hin?

Derek, your view of the differences between K and Hope and the F word are probably correct. I am probably not one of the Hope grads that takes serious offense to the F word, i’ve been known to have mouth on me from time to time. The F word was not what i take offense to in regards to Ellis’s back. It the principle of having semi permanent markings on your body that insinuate F another school. I would personally be embarrassed to have other coaches, swimmers, parents, administrators, and the general public see this and make a judgement about me and the swim program. That is the difference between K and Hope, and that might have something to do with the mission statement, but Paul Ellis is a representative of the K swim program to the outside world, and i think it shows disrespect and a bad perception of a great swim program. I have had many of choice words that have been directed towards K swimming, and I wanted to kill K everytime we swam, but i had plenty of respect for their program. That the beef, do i lose sleep over it, no, but that’s my opinion.

El Duderino, thanks for the grammatical lesson, if you could go through this post with a red pen and correct all my mistakes that would be great. Dont’ forget the grade and a smily face sticker while you’re at it.

@Low Tide wrote:

Do you think Twain secretly had it in for some chinese dude named Hin?

This actually made me laugh out loud just now. I wish I had thought of that!

Stevo, like we said eariler, I am sure Hope has done some things of this nature before. Some argued that our “Hope” cheer was really unsportsmanlike.

I am not saying that it didn’t piss me off, but I see what Derek is saying about differing sensitivities. The nature of K is indeed less sensitive to those sorts of things. Maybe that should make you proud to be a member of Hope’s team. After all, how many times did coach make you do pushups for swearing WHILE SWIMMING!!! I still remember one time I threw an unmistakable F-bomb in the middle of a kick set (on my back) and the look that coach gave me. It’s only funny in retrospect.

It’s one thing to think it, it’s another to have it be semi permanent and tanned into your skin. I have had many of choice words towards Kzoo but to have it tanned on my skin…

This, I certainly believe, Stevo. No Hope swimmer would ever mar his bodacious, all-around tan. That, and Leviticus 19:28.

You K boys love to bring up the tanning. It’s funny how a school that is way more liberal than Hope that has empathy, and can express oneself from people of different backgrounds with differeing belief structures can stereotype a whole team based on a handful of guys. I’ve known of some gay K swimmers/divers does that make all of guys gay? Following the same logic of all the tanning posts, yes. But i don’t believe that to be accurate.

I’ve known of some gay K swimmers/divers does that make all of guys gay?

Yes. Obviously.

Sexual orientation and a trip to the tanners are great comparisons.

… But i don’t believe that to be accurate.

Impeccable, my dear boy. Did you come by these vast powers of logic and deduction all by yourself? Grade: A+

I think it is about time there was an organization set up to help those persecuted and stereotyped because, much like the common house fly, they are phototactic and attracted to UV radiation. They are people, too.

@Stevo wrote:

You K boys love to bring up the tanning. It’s funny how a school that is way more liberal than Hope that has empathy, and can express oneself from people of different backgrounds with differeing belief structures can stereotype a whole team based on a handful of guys. I’ve known of some gay K swimmers/divers does that make all of guys gay? Following the same logic of all the tanning posts, yes. But i don’t believe that to be accurate.

Gosh Stevo, I’d hate for you to be mistaken for being like your former teammates that you claim to be AS ONE.

As for comparing gays and tanning – you are right, Matthew Shepard was a tanner, not gay, and that’s why he was beaten to death. Good work demonstrating your own empathy. And you have successfully denigrated yourself by insinuating that being gay is a belief structure or a choice in how to behave. You might want to stop before what you write really gets you in trouble.

After all, how many times did coach make you do pushups for swearing WHILE SWIMMING!!! I still remember one time I threw an unmistakable F-bomb in the middle of a kick set (on my back) and the look that coach gave me. It’s only funny in retrospect.

That is pretty funny, and you have to respect that. I dare say Coach Patnott is much more of a pious man than Coach Kent 🙂
Though Coach Kent really came down on the team once for having a cheer of, “Bitches Die!!”

How is it that after all these years the guys from Hope don’t know the words to our cheer? Kind of funny.

You might want to stop before what you write really gets you in trouble

I can get in trouble on a online forum for my opinion? Interesting.

You are so right Derek AS ONE means that we are all one person, with the same views, beliefs, and we are basically robots.

@Stevo wrote:

You might want to stop before what you write really gets you in trouble

I can get in trouble on a online forum for my opinion? Interesting.

You are so right Derek AS ONE means that we are all one person, with the same views, beliefs, and we are basically robots.

Only if your mommy reads this. Or, trouble in the sense that you will feel foolish.

Sorry to point out the hypocrisy of your statement. If this offends you, maybe you should reconsider your statement.

It doesn’t offend me.

The point of this thread is the Huck Fope temporary tatoo on a k swimmer, the homosexual reference might have been a little touchy, and i will apologize, but overall I dont’ give a rip what Derek Jansen thinks of me. I think we’ve been over this before. You can think what you want about Hope swimming, and we will probably think the same about K. That’s what makes these forums interesting, think about how lame they would be if we all liked each other.

“Firetruck Hope!!!”

More acceptable? That would be kinda funny as a tattoo (it’s two t’s, come on people!).
“Man, that guy must really like firetrucks…”

“Kuck Fzoo!!!” Sounds like you are a rooster.

“Zuck Foo!!!”

T-shirts for league meet?

@Stevo wrote:

I dont’ give a rip what Derek Jansen thinks of me.

When did I suggest that you should? I believe my contribution to this discussion has been based on general perceptions (not necessarily my own) and the statements you have made in the thread. I recently suggested that you might need to be more careful about what your fellow Hope guys think. When did I write that I thought less of you due to anything you wrote?

Alright, its done, lets move on, we all agree MIAA’s is going to be a great meet, but will it be fast, and how fast? How quick is the team end? The bottom end? How will it compare to years past? How many all MIAA from each team? How many teams go to nats? How many do those teams take? I know we don’t usually but could we do it for guys and girls? Maybe someone could move this post to a new thread, I’m already late for practice….see y’all tomorrow.

@SwexasTim wrote:

Derek, I’m curious about the mission statements, is that supposed to show that we are overreacting b/c we are more offended than you. What makes you the control group? So we should be less offended b/c you are? I’m failing to see it.

No. The point was to give everybody a little perspective on the fact that we can generalize which team is more likely to find it more offensive. I did suggest that maybe there are more important things to care about. I’m pretty sure that the leadership of your college would agree with that.

@SwexasTim wrote:

Also, like stevo, I am not offended by the F word, nor the incinuation (sp) of it. The part that I don’t like is that someone thinks its ok to do that in public for everyone to see and that’s not only ok but apparently encouraged by some of you. I would not be more offended if it actually had said F*** Hope, the fact that there is so little respect for Hope from Kzoo that its ok to do that in public that is what is offensive.

I previously stated that it is not something that should be around for parents, administrators, etc. to see, so I’m not sure what you are trying to prove.

@SwexasTim wrote:

Say what you want behind closed doors, be rude, hating, and not nice to each, whatever, but there are healthy rivilaries and there is lack of respect, which one does this act portray?

While I agree that it is disrespectful, that is at least a little bit of what rivalries are about and what makes them fun. This is college not international relations, so some humor and negativity is okay in my mind as long as it is not directed at individual student-athletes. It wasn’t directed at Heyboer (his biggest competition in the league) and it was humorous because it is juvenile. Again, bad choice to display it to parents and administrators, but all the same, lighten up.

@SwexasTim wrote:

Which brings me to my next point that I have been saving for a while, I didn’t want to bring it up, but frankly its a good time. Y’all come on here and rag on Hope college and sometimes try to make me feel bad or not worthy of this forum b/c of my beliefs, whats up with that? Like its a bad thing I went to a Christian college. Rag on the team, make fun of tanning, make fun of us for staying in west michigan, but keep it within the swim team, that is where the rivalery is, if you want to go school wide lets talk about any sport, you guys can have tennis we will take everything else. Sound good? But don’t try to tell me I am overreacting to something b/c of my religion or my faith, that is beyond inappropriate.

I’m glad you’ve been saving that for awhile, although I wish you’d saved it long enough to reconsider actually making this “point.” I never said anything negative about your faith and never made any suggestions that there was anything negative about your faith. You created those connotations all on your own. Read my posts again if you don’t believe me.

As for other sports, I have to agree with you that in recent history Hope has a better record. But, in recent history you have had a better record in swimming as well. Notice I’ve said recent history for both. That is because looking at the entire history of the MIAA, Kalamazoo has done considerably better in terms of total number of championships:

Kalamazoo: 198
Hope: 135

Removing Tennis:
Kalamazoo: 198 – 75 = 123
Hope: 135 – 2 = 133

Well, I guess you’re right. When we remove the sport that we have a significantly better winning record in for 75 years, you really are slightly better. I’d removing the opposite dominant sport from Hope, but there isn’t one unless you want to include baseball (21-9 for Hope) and then you’d have to include swimming (25-9 for Kalamazoo) and things start to get messy.

All-time All-sports/Commissioner’s Cup Championships

Hope 29
Kalamazoo 14

I personally think we are slipping and need to up the ante a bit more. A current swimmer over in the MIAC forum basically just challenged a 30-something alum/coach to a physical fight. That rules.

Who gives a damn about the Commissioner’s Cup? Who cares about tanning? if Kalamazoo and Hope got into a brawl, it would be so lopsided I can just imagine the spectacle of mangled Hornets, Hope swimmers singing the victory song (which you’ve never heard).

This brings back memories of the 2004 sqaud. With guys like Ian Kobes and Ross Guerink, we must’ve averaged well over 190 lbs on many relays. We could have sat on your skinny asses and won.

Another thing we “pwn” at is recruiting far more attractive females.

Another thing we “pwn” at is recruiting far more attractive females.

For the K team to party with… yes, we have always appreciated your efforts there 😉

Simply using the “word” pwn has proven that, while you may have attractive females at Hope, you have chosen to sit on your couch eating Doritos and playing Halo 3 instead of exploring what the fairer sex has to offer.

Nice, Martha. Let’s go with a “oh yeah? Screw your logic. We can kick your asses just by sitting on you” argument. That totally “pwns” any argument that anyone could make.

I already said I was a pc gamer (quake mostly). Also, I eat sun chips to avoid the msg content and keep me regular.

These two things make a big difference with the ladies.

Obviously kidding on the brawl. I have no idea who would win. I just think the 04 team deserves some recognition for being absurdly huge for a college swim team. We used to joke about being able to win the “pull” (see Hope College wikidepia entry) with our 20 or so studs against those tools who used to consider themselves athletes. I remember hearing one of them say it was the hardest thing they had ever done, worse than any sport. I was like “dude, come to one swimming practice, get your shit tossed, and then we’ll talk.”

Also, now that you’ve brought up Ian Kobes, will he be announcing MIAA’s this year? Because that would be fantastic.

la piscina is closed?

On that topic… I think it is safe to assume we all agree that swimming is in fact the hardest sport in college. Sure, you can make any other sport hard with training, but if you look at the work ethics of all college sports across the board and what the average athlete endures, swimming is by far the most strenuous. If you looked at the Btu’s per day I am sure we stagger over running and other sports with flying colors.

I was so pissed off when espn.com released their hardest sport rankings to find swimming in the 30’s.

Yeah..fuck that and fuck ESPN. The only thing I could see them ranking differently that would put swimming there is the physical toll on the body. Like football is much higher than swimming in that aspect.

AND! Just to make all of you happy…badminton was rated harder than swimming. Only thing you need that is more than in swimming is reaction and hand eye coordination.

Hope always had that meat and potatoes, uniform good dutch stock going for them, while K teams have looked like a mish-mash of shipwreck survivors.

I remember being the smallest member of our medley relays at 6’2 180 lbs — but we were still probably smaller than the Hope relays at the time.

People don’t understand swimming unless they have been part of the sport. Everyone follows football, it is hard not to, and same with the other sports.

I have always believed that the guys from Hope would win in a bar fight, but that fight would never happen because we would have left the bar with their women long before the fight started..

@Martha wrote:

On that topic… I think it is safe to assume we all agree that swimming is in fact the hardest sport in college. Sure, you can make any other sport hard with training, but if you look at the work ethics of all college sports across the board and what the average athlete endures, swimming is by far the most strenuous. If you looked at the Btu’s per day I am sure we stagger over running and other sports with flying colors.

I was so pissed off when espn.com released their hardest sport rankings to find swimming in the 30’s.

I can tell you that swimming is pretty damn hard after college, especially when you’ve taken an approximately two year break between workouts (I don’t count a 100 yd warm-up and a couple random 50s at an alumni meet as a workout). I jumped in the pool the other day, and let’s just say that any distance I tried to swim above 100 yards turned into a lactate set. I felt like Rocky Balboa when he was swimming laps while training for the Clubber Lang rematch in Rocky III.

@Milhouse wrote:

@Martha wrote:

On that topic… I think it is safe to assume we all agree that swimming is in fact the hardest sport in college. Sure, you can make any other sport hard with training, but if you look at the work ethics of all college sports across the board and what the average athlete endures, swimming is by far the most strenuous. If you looked at the Btu’s per day I am sure we stagger over running and other sports with flying colors.

I was so pissed off when espn.com released their hardest sport rankings to find swimming in the 30’s.

I can tell you that swimming is pretty damn hard after college, especially when you’ve taken an approximately two year break between workouts (I don’t count a 100 yd warm-up and a couple random 50s at an alumni meet as a workout). I jumped in the pool the other day, and let’s just say that any distance I tried to swim above 100 yards turned into a lactate set. I felt like Rocky Balboa when he was swimming laps while training for the Clubber Lang rematch in Rocky III.

+1

i started a couple weeks ago as well. it’s been a real struggle to hold something decent on repeat 100’s…

@The Treat wrote:

@Milhouse wrote:

@Martha wrote:

On that topic… I think it is safe to assume we all agree that swimming is in fact the hardest sport in college. Sure, you can make any other sport hard with training, but if you look at the work ethics of all college sports across the board and what the average athlete endures, swimming is by far the most strenuous. If you looked at the Btu’s per day I am sure we stagger over running and other sports with flying colors.

I was so pissed off when espn.com released their hardest sport rankings to find swimming in the 30’s.

I can tell you that swimming is pretty damn hard after college, especially when you’ve taken an approximately two year break between workouts (I don’t count a 100 yd warm-up and a couple random 50s at an alumni meet as a workout). I jumped in the pool the other day, and let’s just say that any distance I tried to swim above 100 yards turned into a lactate set. I felt like Rocky Balboa when he was swimming laps while training for the Clubber Lang rematch in Rocky III.

+1

i started a couple weeks ago as well. it’s been a real struggle to hold something decent on repeat 100’s…

Make that +2

I swam over Christmas with my sister and the high school team. This got ugly when I was getting owned by the girls I used to coach during the summers, who were all 12 & U back then. I considered “cramping up” a few times, but just stopped and admitted I sucked instead. Does anyone else find kicking to be the thing that went the worst? Maybe it’s just me… but my sister lapped me several times in a set shorter than 700 yards.

I have swam once or twice per week almost every week since I finished swimming in 1998 (side note, my dad had a heart attack at age 50 so I had some motivation to stay in shape). That is the only way to stay in this sport. Once you get out of shape you never get back into shape.

I have been swimming 1-2 times per week starting in October (with a 3 week break during Christmas) and am finally starting to feel okay again in the water, but it was really ugly for those first few months.

i swam once since the alumni meet and it was hideous…..i’ve been pretty much just running and lifting, since i can’t seem to motivate myself to spend 90 minutes swimming when i can get the same calorie burn in a 30-40 minute run.

i did the old carlos warmup and if i remember correctly, my warmup 500 was 6:35 and my 100’s were all around 1:15 with the evens backstroke and odds freestyle (the backstokes were actually faster than the freestyle 100s), sadly the 50’s were even worse.

mav is petitioning to not swim the 200 free this year.

Speaking of the alumni meet, who’s taking charge this year? AJP?

@maverick wrote:

i swam once since the alumni meet and it was hideous…..i’ve been pretty much just running and lifting, since i can’t seem to motivate myself to spend 90 minutes swimming when i can get the same calorie burn in a 30-40 minute run.

i did the old carlos warmup and if i remember correctly, my warmup 500 was 6:35 and my 100’s were all around 1:15 with the evens backstroke and odds freestyle (the backstokes were actually faster than the freestyle 100s), sadly the 50’s were even worse.

what is the calorie burn/hr for swimming? ive always wondered and never wanted to wear one of those silly chest heart rate monitors.

oh, and my secret motivation for training is to drop a 9 second 25 free relay split in the alumni meet this coming fall. 8-9 months of training for one 25? totally worth it.