Houston, we DO NOT have a problem

Forums General National Championships Houston, we DO NOT have a problem

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    • #12320
      Father
      Member

      Here’s what was said back in December:

      Did someone already drop that one?

      Anyway, this could be the year a team, other than Kenyon, wins, it’s been discussed before, maybe Denison, maybe Emory, probably not Hopkins, and those are really the only teams that could make a serious run. But with that said, it has also been discussed that Kenyon lacks sprinters, Denison has some decent ones, Emory seems to be developing some, and Hopkins has some very good ones. Furthermore, Kenyon lacks backstrokers and a bonafied butterflier, after losing Duda. So without sprint freestylers, a fast backstroker, and a bankable butterflier, how high can they realistically place in the medleys, both?

      They are deep in the breaststroke and you can maybe even count on a 54 split this year, but their fastest backstroker will not crack 52, and they have a flier that can maybe go a 48, Harris I think his name is. But their fastest freestyler, after losing Berger, who was not even that fast of an individual freestyle sprinter, is like a 46 flat start at best (or as of now). What is the highest they can really place, 5th? Maybe 4th? Denison, Emory, and Hopkins can all beat Kenyon in both meds.

      Let’s say Kenyon takes at best a 5th in the 8 free, which is unlikely considering they placed 9th last year with DeHart, Dunn, Brennion, and I think Christian (?), none of whom were significant freestylers, and they didn’t pick anyone up.

      So with all of their relays placing at an average of 5th, can they really win it this year, realistically? You never know what those guys will do come nationals time, they always pull some crazy times out, and they are so stacked at distance, breaststroke, and 200 fly, so maybe they can pull it out. Thoughts?…I’m new here, if you don’t recognize the name.

      People are quick to judge. Everyone who knows a bit about Kenyon swimming knows what they (and coach steen) went through first semester. They are back in action. They have decent sprinters. Probably won’t win some relays, but will place high enough to score good points. They won’t lose the meet. There’s no way. They looked too solid last week.

      Dunn, Harris, Zarins, Gosselar, Stoyel, Irgens, Borland, Packer, Rantz, Northcutt, Jacobssen were NOT tapered. That’s impressive.

    • #35046

      How do you know those guys weren’t tapered? Not to be annoying, but swimming close to lifetime bests just doesn’t happen without a rest, especially with men. You can argue that they were super pumped, amped, whatever, but when it comes down to it, unless they swim SIGNFICANTLY FASTER at the show, there was some rest.
      On another note, Kenyon is fast. They will most likely win again. Their distance core is great, they’re deep, and they have tradition behind them.

    • #35047
      Chris Knight
      Member

      Yeah, I think they will most likely win, but on the other hand I wouldn’t be shocked if they were upset. Denison has so much star power, and nothing lasts forever.

    • #35048
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Father wrote:

      People are quick to judge. Everyone who knows a bit about Kenyon swimming knows what they (and coach steen) went through first semester.

      That is the point, man. We don’t know what was going on there, but we did know that they didn’t swim well in the first half of the year. Based on how they were swimming it was fair to ask if this was the year. Your post comes off as self-righteous. Kenyong was “judged?” Are you joking. Ohh, poor Kenyon College and their 25 year (whatever) win streak, they are faced with a few whispers that just MAYBE they won’t win this year.

    • #35049
      Father
      Member

      and your post comes, once again, as a Kenyon Hater.

      There’s no “poor Kenyon College”

      It’s more like “hey, it’s December, let’s not get carried away and assume their relays will suck and they won’t have any sprinters or bankable swimmers”

      Please show more respect than that. Those guys deserve it. (yes, saying that their relays will suck, that they have no bankable fliers, and that their backstrokers will not break 52 is just wrong)

      Hater:

      “A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.

      Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse down a notch.”

      Swimming well (and shaving and tapering) in the first half of the year doesn’t matter all that much now.

    • #35050
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      Lamer:

      Mediocrity is a Lamer’s salient characteristic, yet the word “mediocre” seems inadequate to fully encompass the crushing dullness of his personality. Not one of his utterances demonstrates the faintest insight on any topic, no glimmer of wit or humor brightens his conversation, nor does stone ignorance of the subject at hand discourage him from sharing his views. He isn’t even obnoxious enough to justify banning him from the forum. He’s a very weak warrior in the conventional sense, but not even the most stalwart opponent can withstand prolonged contact with his truly fearesome banality.

    • #35051

      Father- Most people were not basing their predictions of December swims, I do not believe. They were basing them on the fact that looking at last years team and the incoming recruits the FACTS said KC had no sprinter under 21, no BKer under 52 and a flyer who was unproven and went 49 mid at night at NCAAs. All of those statements were based on their actual performance and the absolute truth about past KC performance. They did not say KC will not have one of those or that they cant do those this, simply they havent shown that ability. Not until this weekend did the current KC team have a guy under 21 or 52 so I’m pretty sure that in Dec when people said that might be an issue, they were corrent. Now they do have 1 guy who can do that, however he WAS rested and he cant swim 2 legs of a relay so they still have that problem. They are still short on sprint speed and still weaker in Bk than DU, JHU and Emory. They arent attacking KC, they are stating fact.

      I will agree that KC will probably win this year again barring a really on meet from a couple teams based on depth, but it will definately be the weakest KC team in years so when people say there is more of a chance of losing they are also correct. When you win every year you are going to be the subject of criticism, get used to it. And if you cant, dont talk because no one wants to hear about how disrespected and disadvantaged a team you are. Only Yankee fans like the Yankees and everyone loves the underdog, thats just the way the world works. We arent haters, just telling truth. When they show they have the horses THIS year to win the free relays, I’ll give em that credit but I dont think they have that with GCC, DU and others around. But they might prove me wrong, they often so (there that isnt Kenyon hating is it)

      Also- In my opinion, if KC does win this year, it is by FAR the best coaching job Steen has ever done. The guy can flat out coach.

    • #35052
      silentp
      Member

      @Father wrote:

      It’s more like “hey, it’s December, let’s not get carried away and assume their relays will suck and they won’t have any sprinters or bankable swimmers”

      Please show more respect than that. Those guys deserve it. (yes, saying that their relays will suck, that they have no bankable fliers, and that their backstrokers will not break 52 is just wrong).

      First of all, none of the swimmers you named as being unrested are sprinters. They are either distance swimmers or strokers. While the question of backstroker has been answered (and by 2 people), I still don’t think it’s a big deal to talk about their 200 and 400 FR likely losing. This would not be based on early season results or even late season results, but rather who is on the relay and who is better.

      Second of all, if someone said Kenyon has no bankable swimmers, i’d enjoy seeing it because i am pretty sure everyone in here has great respect for Kenyon and realizes that they have guys to bank on who will swim well in March.

      Also, Harris is widely regarded as one of the best fliers in the country, so i find it even more unlikely that people said Kenyon has no bankable fliers. When talking about relays, many people have said “Kenyon will be strongest in the middle because of their breastroke and butterfly legs”. I am not sure how this is a lack of respect towards Harris to call him half of the best middle half in the country. Backstroke is their weakness when compared to the team who will rival them the most, Hopkins, that’s fact.

      Third of all, the fact that we discuss “Will Kenyon lose?” or “Can Kenyon be taken down in more than 1 relay?” is a sign of respect. While you see it as disrespectful, the fact that the discussion isn’t widely up for grabs on who wins, but rather people wanting to beat a single team because of their enormous success shows the respect people have for them. Even when people said they had no sprinters, they didn’t count them out of the 200 FR… name 1 other team they would have gone that for… thanks, none of them. When people make it a goal to beat Kenyon rather than simply win, that says something about the strength and history of the program, and it says everyone respects them.

    • #35053
      OCswim
      Member

      let me buy you a clue fool!

      kenyan college? here today gone tomorrow!
      Theres a new face in town, i’ll spell it out O-L-V-E-T. write it down and say it out loud. You’re mother knows it!

    • #35054
      OCswim
      Member

      O-L-I-V-E-T

    • #35055

      @OCswim wrote:

      let me buy you a clue fool!

      kenyan college? here today gone tomorrow!
      Theres a new face in town, i’ll spell it out O-L-V-E-T. write it down and say it out loud. You’re mother knows it!

      Wow, you can’t spell Kenyon or Olivet. Kenyans live in Kenya.

    • #35056
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Father wrote:

      It’s more like “hey, it’s December, let’s not get carried away and assume their relays will suck and they won’t have any sprinters or bankable swimmers”

      Right that is what happened. In fact I remember reading that Kenyon wouldn’t place in the top 10, and should go ahead and throw in the towel on the whole season…no whole program. You find ONE post that says their relays will suck or that says they wouldn’t have any bankable swimmers and you have a point. Their relays WILL NOT be as good as years past, maybe that is what you read, and because you are so guarded about Kenyon’s legacy you turn that into someone saying they suck.

      There isn’t a poster on this entire website that doesn’t recognize Kenyon for the great champions that they are. It appears that any post in regards to Kenyon that strays from that will be cast as, what were your wrods, Kenyon sucks? No wonder you went to Kenyon (or your son). In life you cannot take the slightest bit of criticism (accurate in this case, I might add) so you feebly allign yourself with the program that is the closest thing to being above reproach.

    • #35057
      Father
      Member

      Maybe you didn’t read my quote earlier, here’s what was said

      “Furthermore, Kenyon lacks backstrokers and a bonafied butterflier, after losing Duda. So without sprint freestylers, a fast backstroker, and a bankable butterflier, how high can they realistically place in the medleys, both? ” (by EverybodyWangChung2Nite)

      That was said back in December– that Kenyon doesn’t have a bankable flier (and implied that they don’t have a bankable freestyler or backstroker).

      So, I have a point, and I win the discussion. Thanks for trying, Don. Maybe next time.

    • #35058
      N Dynamite
      Member

      How do you win a discussion?

    • #35059
      Derek
      Member

      @Father wrote:

      So, I have a point, and I win the discussion. Thanks for trying, Don. Maybe next time.

      I can’t wait to see how this conversation develops.

    • #35060
      Squirttle
      Member

      Man…someone is having a good Valentine’s day!!! Why not flame the one you love….

      I wonder why it has taken Father till now to post his re-tort. Why not back in December??

      As someone who definitely supports Kenyon Swimming, he should know nothing is bankable until March! Kenyon Men’s swimming has definitely gone to the bankin March. Heck, I am sure they pretty much own the bank by now!

      Just my 2 cents worth!

    • #35061
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @Squirttle wrote:

      I wonder why it has taken Father till now to post his re-tort. Why not back in December??

      He had to wait until the bankable sprinter, backstroker, and butterflyer all put up good times. He wasn’t confident enough in January to say “Hey, we’ve got so and so who can go fast in back and this other guy who will be under 21 in the 50”. He could have at least pointed out Harris was that good (I was very surprised back in December that someone didn’t) but he obviously felt that Kenyon might actually fall and didn’t want to go out on a limb to support his team. But hey, he’s winning the discussion now!

    • #35062
      Low Tide
      Member

      Father is taking things a bit out of context, ok way out of context (it’s like he threw a cyber dart at this forum and found a sentence he did not like) — The poster he quotes has made all of one post on this site and was shortly taken to task by numerous regulars for a number of inaccuracies (including a 48 flyer not being ‘bankable’).

      https://d3swimming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2418&highlight=

      What Father is doing here and what his point is, however, continue to elude me.

    • #35063
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Father wrote:

      So, I have a point, and I win the discussion. Thanks for trying, Don. Maybe next time.

      I didn’t know I was talking with a 8th grader.

      You have exagerated everything in an effort to create disrespect that does not exist. That is pathetic.

    • #35064

      @Father wrote:

      Maybe you didn’t read my quote earlier, here’s what was said

      “Furthermore, Kenyon lacks backstrokers and a bonafied butterflier, after losing Duda. So without sprint freestylers, a fast backstroker, and a bankable butterflier, how high can they realistically place in the medleys, both? ” (by EverybodyWangChung2Nite)

      That was said back in December– that Kenyon doesn’t have a bankable flier (and implied that they don’t have a bankable freestyler or backstroker).

      So, I have a point, and I win the discussion. Thanks for trying, Don. Maybe next time.

      Dude – you should notice also that EverybodyWangChung2Nite has exactly 1.. one.. ONE post EVER on this site. the post you are referring to. No one else considered Harris not a bankable flyer. The only hole I saw was backstroke (they always get someone to swim a good 100 free), but they’ve filled that hole somewhat adequately. They’ll win the meet, but they’ll lose more relays this year than they have in a long time.

    • #35065
      miller
      Member

      Father,
      Go argue with OCSwim. It’s more entertaining.

    • #35066
      neswim
      Member

      To join the growing chorus, I’d say that the questions re Kenyon earlier this year was quite legitimate. This is not to take anything away from the current swimmers, many of whom have since stepped up, but even reviewing the results from last weekend there is still no Duda or …..pick your favorite stud from the past. That combined with the a still lean sprinting squad, also true last year except with one notable exception, and its reasonable to expect that the door is opened somewhat for someone else to walk through.

      However, and this is a great credit to the team and Coach Steen, they do appear to be coming together. So, once again, it will come down to who can really race in March. I guess Kenyon is the favorite as defending champ but not sure how much that really counts once the races start. Maybe this is really a good thing for the Lords long term, to be seriously challenged. If they come through, and for what its worth from what I see this is likely, then they will be in stronger position than last year, since no one loss will be make a big difference.

      Re the whole topic of rest, taper, etc…I’d expect Emory, Denison and Kenyon to be in fine form come March ready to swim their fastest times of the year. It should be a close battle for the national championship. What more could a fan of Div III swimming want?

      On the women’s side, I’m not convinced it will be that close. The Ladies seem to have it all…star power, depth and fast relays….but then again they still have to rise to the occasion because the Emory and Denison coaches will have their teams ready…at minimum expect many records to fall next month.

    • #35067
      trout3
      Member

      “People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?” – Rodney King May 1, 1992

    • #35068
      swim5599
      Member

      I want to throw my 2 cents in on this also. I think it is obvious that Kenyon is rounding into form. Maybe a lot of guys were rested at their conf meet and maybe not. Will they be tough to beat? Of course. WIll it be a close meet? I think so. They will probably pull it off. I think based on their times Denison was not rested much. They will give Kenyon a run, but they don’t have enough depth. Kenyon is great and I respect what they have done.

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