Hope/kzoo dual

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    • #11897
      DonCheadle
      Member

      First and FOREMOST: Who cares who wins, it’s a dual meet. Still, I think Kzoo wins this year…

      (duel meet?)

    • #29498
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      First and FOREMOST: Who cares who wins, it’s a dual meet. Still, I think Kzoo wins this year…

      (duel meet?)

      It is a dual/duel, so i am unsure who will win, but i think it will depend greatly on how Kzoo swims in-season this year. Word has it that Kathy might be mixing things up this year, but i’m not holding my breath on it. Prediction:

      Medley – zoo
      1000 – dan the man
      200 – ellis
      50 – fonzi or transfer, i’ll take fonzi
      im – heyboer
      fly – dekker
      100 – vanderbroek or transfer
      back – ellis
      500 – dan the man
      breast – fonzi
      FR – hope
      diving – both to hope

      6 wins and a relay win for hope
      5 wins and a relay win for zoo
      hope also has more depth, especially in duals
      hope wins

    • #29499
      silentp
      Member

      I just did a mock draft, with a K bias and had

      Hope 92, K 94 without diving

    • #29500

      The first question to ask is….long or short? It might matter. I’d put my money on Heyboer in the backstroke over Paul the Savior Ellis if its a 200. If it’s not a 200 then Heyboer goes the 500 and Hope goes 2-3-4 in the backstroke and 1-2’s the 500. Am I wrong?

      Also, K has to guarantee what they can guarantee, or as close to it as possible so they HAVE to load the medley. Which would leave little for the 4 free relay (no ellis, no soriano) where Hope can 1-2 with any combo of VanderBroek, Vogelzang, Transfer, Nelis, Rose, Holton, Glas and another sprinter they have an abundance of. Am I wrong?

      Medleys that go 2-3
      Engers, King, Hoesch, Rose
      Ruch, Cook, Waterstone, Holton

      1000
      Gardner Delo Ray

      200
      Heyboer VanderBroek Nelis or Glas

      50
      Holton Vogelzang Transfer

      IM
      Waterstone Engers ? or Nelis

      Fly
      Waterstone Nelis Hoesch

      100
      VanderBroek Vogelzang Rose

      Bk
      Heyboer (if 200) Engers Ruch Bravo/Buma/newcomer if not

      500
      Heyboer (if short strokes) Gardner Ray Delo

      Br
      King Cook ?

      Free Relay
      VanderBroek, Glas, ?, Nelis
      Vogelzang, Holton, Rose, Tranny

    • #29501
      swimbadger
      Member

      This is all assuming no Blohm. But, he will be swimming for Hope this year. This probably means that long or short, Hope wins the Backstoke and also Ellis will not take the 200 over Blohm.

      Hope will win.

      Zoo has made great gains, but Hope has kept too much and has too much coming in to be beat. Hope may have one of the top 5 teams in the history of the MIAA if all of the incoming freshmen pan out.

    • #29502
      silentp
      Member

      I think K will have enough to get second in the relay. Hennigar would probably swim just the 100 and both relays. You’d also still have Ben for the relay and Dekker. If Ellis is only used for backstroke, he could lead the relay off, considering he went 47.5 in a dual last year…

      I don’t think ZOO will win the dual, but i think this shows they at least have the talent to make a lot of noise at MIAAs when the best swimmers can do 4 relays and 3 indy’s.

      I do think K has a good shot against Calvin and Olivet this year though.

    • #29503
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swimbadger wrote:

      This is all assuming no Blohm. But, he will be swimming for Hope this year.

      I think he will be swimming too. If he is going to be on campus, why not swim. Stay tuned…

    • #29504
      silentp
      Member

      @swimbadger wrote:

      This is all assuming no Blohm. But, he will be swimming for Hope this year. This probably means that long or short, Hope wins the Backstoke and also Ellis will not take the 200 over Blohm.

      Hope will win.

      Zoo has made great gains, but Hope has kept too much and has too much coming in to be beat. Hope may have one of the top 5 teams in the history of the MIAA if all of the incoming freshmen pan out.

      How does that give them the backstroke? Ellis is a significantly better backstroker than Blohm… but no, he wouldn’t beat Blohm in a 200 free. Also, if it’s long, Blohm would get beat quite badly by Heyboer in the event.

      Also, Hope will not no where near a top 5 team in the history of the MIAA, it wouldn’t be a top 5 Hope team, let alone MIAA. Unless by pan out you mean drop huge amounts of time. I swam on 2 teams that were better.

    • #29505
      Low Tide
      Member

      Ellis is a significantly better backstroker than Blohm…

      Depends on how well he adapts to a non-standup-start. I know Denny Kelly shaved off more than a second of his time with a standup start.

    • #29506
      silentp
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      Ellis is a significantly better backstroker than Blohm…

      Depends on how well he adapts to a non-standup-start. I know Denny Kelly shaved off more than a second of his time with a standup start.

      High school doesn’t do stand up starts anymore.

    • #29507
      Low Tide
      Member

      Really? That’s good. When did they stop allowing those?

    • #29508
      silentp
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      Really? That’s good. When did they stop allowing those?

      I agree it’s good. I believe it was the year after i graduated high school, so 02, maybe 03 at the latest. If he had the stand up he may be a sub 50 guy with a 50 back under 23, but that’s huge speculation.

    • #29509

      Happy Madison’s opinion is the only one that counts, in my opinion.

      K has absolutely NO SHOT at winning the dual. Two stud swimmers won’t make up for the depth, as already seen in the MIAA by Hope back in the “days.” One year Hope had Dattles, Lippert, and Boss…didn’t win a dual. Another year Hope had Dattles, Slagh, Boss, and DeHaan…didn’t win a dual. One year Hope had Slagh, Boss, DeHaan, and I’m sure of someone I’m forgetting. Point being, you can be the biggest men on the planet (as indicated by Slagh, Boss, Lippert, and Dattles – probably the 4 largest men in DIII Swimming History, if not the entire world) and still not win a dual. Depth is where it is at…2,3,4 every event and the opponent will be crying in the locker room or dropping their urine load on the sauna rocks.

    • #29510
      silentp
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Happy Madison’s opinion is the only one that counts, in my opinion.

      K has absolutely NO SHOT at winning the dual. Two stud swimmers won’t make up for the depth, as already seen in the MIAA by Hope back in the “days.” One year Hope had Dattles, Lippert, and Boss…didn’t win a dual. Another year Hope had Dattles, Slagh, Boss, and DeHaan…didn’t win a dual. One year Hope had Slagh, Boss, DeHaan, and I’m sure of someone I’m forgetting. Point being, you can be the biggest men on the planet (as indicated by Slagh, Boss, Lippert, and Dattles – probably the 4 largest men in DIII Swimming History, if not the entire world) and still not win a dual. Depth is where it is at…2,3,4 every event and the opponent will be crying in the locker room or dropping their urine load on the sauna rocks.

      While I agree K won’t win, the reason they didn’t win the duals wasn’t just because of the depth factor, but that Zoo had studs of their own, although i realize you cannot give respect to Kalamazoo. Also, 2, 3, and 4 in every event does not give you the win. So i am sure you were trying to make a point here, but since you didn’t, you just made yourself look even dumber… if that’s at all possible.

      I’m also wondering what the largest men in D3 history means. Boss is a top 10 or so swimmer all time for D3, but the others are very very good, but not great. If you meant actual size, Boss was not that tall, so another stupid point. if you’re going to make a post, say something intelligent, PLEASE, just once!

    • #29511

      P,

      lay off vazzy a little bit.

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      as indicated by Slagh, Boss, Lippert, and Dattles – probably the 4 largest men in DIII Swimming History, if not the entire world

      this MAY have been intended to be a bit of a joke and simply stated to rib Slagh, Boss, Lippert, and Dattels… all former roommates of vazzy

      additionally, i think vazzy may just be trying to get under your skin a little, and i think it worked.

      yes, hope will win a dual meet with k this year because they have studs and depth much like the k teams you were on as a frosh and sophomore.

      k will beat calvin at leagues and close the gap on hope and olivet, defeating either may be a stretch

    • #29512
      silentp
      Member

      Yes he did, get under my skin that is. I just wish he showed the same respect for the rivalry as others from Hope do.

      Also, i have said from the begining Hope will win the dual meet. This is even assuming K can swim at duals meets. My thoughts on this are split, but feel most of it was mental. I know it was for me (except my junior year, which was kathy’s first year).

      I would say this year’s Hope team, while not near as good as the K teams i spoke of before, has the mix of studs and depth that is needed. Right now, i feel Olivet is a couple studs short and K might be a few depth guys short.

    • #29513
      stiles
      Member

      2 things:

      1. With the way the conversation about this new guy that K has is going, the next thing we are going to see are post like this:

      Don Cheadle: “I think the K men have a shot to win NCAAs this year.”
      silentp: “Agreed. One advantage they will have in the relays is that they will be so far ahead after the first two legs of the medley they will just stop the race. It will be a first.”
      Maverick: “Did you guys know that Ellis eats Chipotle before every race?”

      2. Since this forum is pretty much exclusively Hope and K (with the exception of guhAJP), we are forgeting Olivet again. The title will still be between this two teams. What about a dual meet between those two teams?

    • #29514
      silentp
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      2 things:

      1. With the way the conversation about this new guy that K has is going, the next thing we are going to see are post like this:

      Don Cheadle: “I think the K men have a shot to win NCAAs this year.”
      silentp: “Agreed. One advantage they will have in the relays is that they will be so far ahead after the first two legs of the medley they will just stop the race. It will be a first.”
      Maverick: “Did you guys know that Ellis eats Chipotle before every race?”

      2. Since this forum is pretty much exclusively Hope and K (with the exception of guhAJP), we are forgeting Olivet again. The title will still be between this two teams. What about a dual meet between those two teams?

      I thought we had been saying they’d lose the dual and MIAAs, but maybe i missed something. All we said is that it really helps our relays and will help us make some noise in those relays and win more individual events (he’d be the strong favorite in 2 events) at MIAAs. I don’t think anyone has forgotten about Olivet but i didn’t think they’d be at the dual meet.

      Hope would win that dual meet with Olivet.

    • #29515
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      2 things:

      1. With the way the conversation about this new guy that K has is going, the next thing we are going to see are post like this:

      Don Cheadle: “I think the K men have a shot to win NCAAs this year.”

      Stiles, I just look for things to ttalk about. If this topic weren’t interesting, then you wouldn’t have bothered to check it out. I respect the coaches and swimmers at Hope and your characterization of me is wrong.

      In less of course you were joking, in which case I would say that kzoo doesn’t have a shot at winning NCAA’s till next year.

    • #29516
      Derek
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      Maverick: “Did you guys know that Ellis eats Chipotle before every race?”

      Regardless of what you intended with your post and what you said besides this sentence, this was funny.

    • #29517

      silentp, it was implied that one team (Hope or K) would win at least a couple of events. Has it ever happened where Hope or K won every single event in the meet? If that has happened then you would have depth…would you not? My point was pretty clear but next time I’ll make sure to “dumb” it down for you to understand. Don’t take a literal reading of everything.

      What do you care if Boss, Slagh, Dattels, and Lippert were the largest men in the history of DIII Swimming? Do you want me to throw you a bone and say that K also had some of the largest men in DIII? Maybe sometimes (yes, sometimes) I can make a freaken post on this site without you wondering where the “respect” and “acknowledgement” for the Mighty Hornets is. This is an internet chat forum…should we all hold hands and sing kumbaya together? That would be fun. Lighten up a little, geez. Every school in the MIAA has respect for each other.

    • #29518

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Every school in the MIAA has respect for each other.

      careful with your use of every… does anyone in the MIAA truly respect olivet?

    • #29519
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      What do you care if Boss, Slagh, Dattels, and Lippert were the largest men in the history of DIII Swimming?

      I just figured out what you meant by largest. I think you should cut silentP a little slack: he does not spend as much time as you do thinking about his former teammates “members” and therefore did not understand your point.

      That said, I do agree with Vazzy, atleast a little bit, that we are all a little too sensitive here.

    • #29520
      silentp
      Member

      @Billy Gilmore wrote:

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Every school in the MIAA has respect for each other.

      careful with your use of every… does anyone in the MIAA truly respect olivet?

      I respect what they do in the pool as swimmers… just like i respect what Indian River swimmers do…. but beyond that, no.

    • #29521
      silentp
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      silentp, it was implied that one team (Hope or K) would win at least a couple of events. Has it ever happened where Hope or K won every single event in the meet? If that has happened then you would have depth…would you not?

      You’re gonna have to dumb this one down for me too, i have no idea what you are talking about.

    • #29522

      Oh good one Cheadle…really though, that was pretty good. See how easy it is to laugh when someone has a sense of humor? I mean, Cheadle just said that I was a homosexual –

      “oh my, please don’t say that the entire Hope’s swim team is gay because it isn’t true. I just wish that he would show some respect to us.”

      Not only quit the sensitivity, but quit the freaken whining and bitching about EVERYTHING!

    • #29523

      Ok, let me do my best to keep talking about swimming.

      We are going back to the depth issue in a dual meet when I originally said that you can’t have a couple of stud swimmers and expect to win – you need depth. Just like the depth exhibited back when K won meets by 2, 3, and 4ing for what seemed like every event. You said, we had stud swimmers and on top of that you can’t win the meet by 2, 3, and 4ing every event. I know that.

      What I was implying is that in any given dual meet, one team doesn’t win (take first) every single event and I would dare assume that first place points are relatively equal between each respected team. You take first in the 50, I take first in the 100, you win the med, I win the free relay – hopefully you are following me. So, in my opinion, I would think that 2, 3, and 4 is where meets are won and lost. Hope didn’t have that depth and therefore lost dual meets back then.

      Now, if your team had a group of guys that took first in every single event in the meet but couldn’t field anyone to finish 2, 3, and 4…I would still argue that your team has depth but just a different kind of depth.

    • #29524
      silentp
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Ok, let me do my best to keep talking about swimming.

      We are going back to the depth issue in a dual meet when I originally said that you can’t have a couple of stud swimmers and expect to win – you need depth. Just like the depth exhibited back when K won meets by 2, 3, and 4ing for what seemed like every event. You said, we had stud swimmers and on top of that you can’t win the meet by 2, 3, and 4ing every event. I know that.

      What I was implying is that in any given dual meet, one team doesn’t win (take first) every single event and I would dare assume that first place points are relatively equal between each respected team. You take first in the 50, I take first in the 100, you win the med, I win the free relay – hopefully you are following me. So, in my opinion, I would think that 2, 3, and 4 is where meets are won and lost. Hope didn’t have that depth and therefore lost dual meets back then.

      Now, if your team had a group of guys that took first in every single event in the meet but couldn’t field anyone to finish 2, 3, and 4…I would still argue that your team has depth but just a different kind of depth.

      Great post (not sarcasm, honest compliment). This is true. I will take it one step further and i think you’ll agree with me vazzy, and others. The depth at MIAAs of which we speak of so highly as it’s importance is so great that it can win an MIAA are the guys who are consistantly finaling in their events.

      The depth of K this coming year seems to be a large number of people who will be in that 7 – 12 heat, where scoring is much lower. When K was winning by large margins over GREAT Hope teams, they were doing it with guys, like myself, scoring large points by getting places like 4th, 3rd, etc.

      Also, with the duals back in the day, it seemed like we would go 2 – 4 in all the events, then an event like the IM or 1000 would come along and we’d go 1 – 3, and really put on the points. I think that’s how we won because the relays would almost always be won by Hope.

    • #29525
      stiles
      Member

      i heart controversey.

    • #29526
      el radio
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      2 things:

      1. With the way the conversation about this new guy that K has is going, the next thing we are going to see are post like this:

      Don Cheadle: “I think the K men have a shot to win NCAAs this year.”
      silentp: “Agreed. One advantage they will have in the relays is that they will be so far ahead after the first two legs of the medley they will just stop the race. It will be a first.”
      Maverick: “Did you guys know that Ellis eats Chipotle before every race?”

      2. Since this forum is pretty much exclusively Hope and K (with the exception of guhAJP), we are forgeting Olivet again. The title will still be between this two teams. What about a dual meet between those two teams?

      I havent laughed that hard since i was a little 12 year old girl. Stiles has just owned each and everyone of you and made you all look like chumps…BYYAAAAAAAAAA

    • #29527
      el radio
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      Ok, let me do my best to keep talking about swimming.

      We are going back to the depth issue in a dual meet when I originally said that you can’t have a couple of stud swimmers and expect to win – you need depth. Just like the depth exhibited back when K won meets by 2, 3, and 4ing for what seemed like every event. You said, we had stud swimmers and on top of that you can’t win the meet by 2, 3, and 4ing every event. I know that.

      What I was implying is that in any given dual meet, one team doesn’t win (take first) every single event and I would dare assume that first place points are relatively equal between each respected team. You take first in the 50, I take first in the 100, you win the med, I win the free relay – hopefully you are following me. So, in my opinion, I would think that 2, 3, and 4 is where meets are won and lost. Hope didn’t have that depth and therefore lost dual meets back then.

      Now, if your team had a group of guys that took first in every single event in the meet but couldn’t field anyone to finish 2, 3, and 4…I would still argue that your team has depth but just a different kind of depth.

      Great post (not sarcasm, honest compliment). This is true. I will take it one step further and i think you’ll agree with me vazzy, and others. The depth at MIAAs of which we speak of so highly as it’s importance is so great that it can win an MIAA are the guys who are consistantly finaling in their events.

      The depth of K this coming year seems to be a large number of people who will be in that 7 – 12 heat, where scoring is much lower. When K was winning by large margins over GREAT Hope teams, they were doing it with guys, like myself, scoring large points by getting places like 4th, 3rd, etc.

      Also, with the duals back in the day, it seemed like we would go 2 – 4 in all the events, then an event like the IM or 1000 would come along and we’d go 1 – 3, and really put on the points. I think that’s how we won because the relays would almost always be won by Hope.

      I’d also like to point out that with given the incredible recruiting season (for all teams) the 7-12 consol heat will be much tougher than it was this past year. With all of this talent coming in, alot of these slightly above average swimmers that snuck into the consols this past year might have a lot of trouble even making it on the league team and may become “X-Men”. i think it is also possible that some of the 3-6 scorers could move down into the consol heat as well. Anybody and everybody swimming is gonna be affected this year, I can guarantee that…Unless you are stiles (who plans on announcing this year at league meet) right Kob? RIGHT?

      In the end this league meet is gonnna be “fretty pucking” fast for everyone…I CANT WAIT

    • #29528
      ajp
      Member

      I *heart* stiles.

    • #29529
      Duck
      Member

      I feel compelled to preface my remarks with the following: Hope College’s peuplade is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I want to share this with you because Vazzy’s and Stile’s announcements serve only to safeguard their own illusion of power and privilege. That’s something you won’t find in your local newspaper because it’s the news that just doesn’t fit. In all fairness, Hope’s lackeys often reverse the normal process of interpretation. That is, they value the unsaid over the said, the obscure over the clear.

      You might think that anyone who doesn’t know that Hope College is venal must be inhabiting a different world. Well, if that’s the case, then I’m afraid Hope’s janissaries must have spent the past month on Mars. Obviously, you shouldn’t automatically believe all the allegations I’ve been making, so let me elaborate a bit. Last year, I attempted what I knew would be a hopeless task. I tried to convince Vazzy that his communications don’t amount to anything. As I expected, he was thoroughly unconvinced.

      Some reputed — as opposed to reputable — members of Hope’s unemployed masses of alumni quite adamantly believe that Hope is omnipotent. I find it rather astonishing that anyone could contend such a thing, but then again, I no longer believe that trends like family breakdown, promiscuity, and violence are random events. Not only are they explicitly glorified and promoted by Hope’s ridiculous antics, but everything I’ve said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this post. My key point is that they claim classism is the key to world peace. Well, I beg to differ. So maybe I am interested in facts, not in paregoric for Hope’s behind buddies. Big deal. What’s more important is that Hope decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that it fears, because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility. Hope graduates are not just treasonous; they’re illiterate, too. That’s it for this letter. I sincerely hope that typing it was not a complete waste of energy. Unfortunately, I do realize that my words will probably trigger no useful response in the flabby synapses of Hope’s collective brain. I just felt obligated to go through the motions because we should give them a taste of their own medicine.

      Thank you.

    • #29530
      Derek
      Member

      Either that was one of Duck’s more coherent posts, or it is just one of the few I’ve bothered to read. Probably the latter.

      Now, when you say:

      @Duck wrote:

      the flabby synapses of Hope’s collective brain.

      Do you mean that they have bad internet connections?

      And if that is the case, I assume that you make this point because they cannot afford anything greater than the computer at the local public library (when they are allowed in) because they are all a part of

      @Duck wrote:

      Hope’s unemployed masses of alumni

      Am I correct in my comprehension of your remarks?

    • #29531
      el radio
      Member

      @Duck wrote:

      I feel compelled to preface my remarks with the following: Hope College’s peuplade is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I want to share this with you because Vazzy’s and Stile’s announcements serve only to safeguard their own illusion of power and privilege. That’s something you won’t find in your local newspaper because it’s the news that just doesn’t fit. In all fairness, Hope’s lackeys often reverse the normal process of interpretation. That is, they value the unsaid over the said, the obscure over the clear.

      You might think that anyone who doesn’t know that Hope College is venal must be inhabiting a different world. Well, if that’s the case, then I’m afraid Hope’s janissaries must have spent the past month on Mars. Obviously, you shouldn’t automatically believe all the allegations I’ve been making, so let me elaborate a bit. Last year, I attempted what I knew would be a hopeless task. I tried to convince Vazzy that his communications don’t amount to anything. As I expected, he was thoroughly unconvinced.

      Some reputed — as opposed to reputable — members of Hope’s unemployed masses of alumni quite adamantly believe that Hope is omnipotent. I find it rather astonishing that anyone could contend such a thing, but then again, I no longer believe that trends like family breakdown, promiscuity, and violence are random events. Not only are they explicitly glorified and promoted by Hope’s ridiculous antics, but everything I’ve said so far is by way of introduction to the key point I want to make in this post. My key point is that they claim classism is the key to world peace. Well, I beg to differ. So maybe I am interested in facts, not in paregoric for Hope’s behind buddies. Big deal. What’s more important is that Hope decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that it fears, because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility. Hope graduates are not just treasonous; they’re illiterate, too. That’s it for this letter. I sincerely hope that typing it was not a complete waste of energy. Unfortunately, I do realize that my words will probably trigger no useful response in the flabby synapses of Hope’s collective brain. I just felt obligated to go through the motions because we should give them a taste of their own medicine.

      Thank you.

      You know Duck…I am not protecting Hope College when i say this…but I am making fun of you. Every post that I have read of yours makes me laugh out loud (LOL). With every post you “Formulate” (I use big words now) I have become more persuaded that you are just an elitist, green peace loving, enviornmentally conscious idoit….and yes i did say I-D-O-I-T because being an IDOIT is much worse than being an IDIOT. Think what you want of me….say what you feel…i dont care…because I have spoken….the radio doesn’t lie when he says….Hope College Rules…Kalamazoo College Drools

      A taste of our own medicine. Guess what….it tastes GOOOOOOD

    • #29532
      The Treat
      Member

      @el radio wrote:

      and yes i did say I-D-O-I-T because being an IDOIT is much worse than being an IDIOT.

      the pot calling the kettle black…

    • #29533
      Stevo
      Member

      Duck,

      What are you trying to prove? This is my illiterate, Hope College, interpretation of your post. You are trying to use big words that no moron Hope College graduate would know, to make yourself feel you are superior. Whether or not you think I am a dumb, unemployed, and conservative means nothing to me. I won’t lose any sleep over it. I am one of those three things and that is conservative. I hope you feel better about yourself after that post……you really showed us dumb Hope College folk how much better you are.

    • #29534
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I agree with Derek, that was one of Duck’s better (more coherent?) posts.

      What is funny to me, is that Duck is….

      a conservative!

      But I still like him.

      Duck and I have it backwards, he is a (more or less) a non-believing conservative, and I am a Christian Liberal.

      Now radio, I do have one questions for you: Why do you associate “enviornmentally conscious” and “idiot?” While not an extermist, I think being “enviornmentally conscious,” is quite smart. I was trying to install solar panels at my home but too many, what was your word, oh yeah, idots here in Texas think them fancy ideas is dangerous.

    • #29535
      Derek
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Now radio, I do have one questions for you: Why do you associate “enviornmentally conscious” and “idiot?” While not an extermist, I think being “enviornmentally conscious,” is quite smart. I was trying to install solar panels at my home but too many, what was your word, oh yeah, idots here in Texas think them fancy ideas is dangerous.

      If being environmentally conscious makes me an idiot, then I’m a moron. I, like most environmental scientists who are known for being environmentally conscious morons, believe that global warming is a fact. Though it be more due to circumstance, I take public transporation. My parents installed solar panels on their home in California (they actual will save money in the long run), I turn my air conditioner down when I leave (yes, I use an air conditioner, but I think Al Gore does too), I believe that we need better (stricter) environmental policy in order for our children (hell, for us) to live long and healthy lives free from oppressive heat. My moronic beliefs are held not because I have some sort of political agenda. Yes, politics are the way to get there, but my agenda has more to do with not wanting to live in a world where hundreds of people die each summer due to “heat waves” and we can actually go outside and workout without having fear of asthma attacks despite not having asthma. I believe that now is the time to do something. This heat is not natural, no matter what G.W.’s scientists want to lead you to believe.

      This is a politically charged issue, but I think that it is time that we stop letting it be about politics. If you don’t believe the science, fine. But if you are making your judgement on which party says what, then I believe that you are only hurting yourself and the ones you love. Check out the science and treat this like a problem that we must address because this is our world, not like it is a political issue.

      Although you might find it partisan in nature because Al Gore made it, his movie An Inconvenient Truth is very good. He is an expert on the subject of global warming and he avoids politics as much as possible for a man who ran for president.

    • #29536
      Alterego
      Member

      I heard that there will be some pretty good freshman in the MIAA next year.

    • #29537
      stiles
      Member

      I don’t understand why you would post something long and stupid like what Duck did. I didn’t read it. It is obvious that a portion of the Kzoo guys didn’t read it based on how many admitted it.

      At this point, I still haven’t read it. I think I am just going to back to this:

      Mav: “After further research, Ellis’ parents actually feed him Chipotle as a baby.”
      Moderator Jansen: “I bet they were the fish burritos.”
      Duck: “I like to take myself way to seriously. Chipotle is for the feeble minded.”
      El Radio: “Idoit.”
      Stiles: “I’m going to announce Leagues this year.”

    • #29538
      Alterego
      Member

      I ran out of gas on the way home from my softball game last night.

    • #29539
      Derek
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      Moderator Jansen: “I bet they were the fish burritos.”

      I don’t even like fish burritos. I asked that because I wanted to know if I needed to avoid them.

      @stiles wrote:

      Stiles: “I’m going to announce Leagues this year.”

      You are not looking to do color commentary, are you?

    • #29540
      Derek
      Member

      @Alterego wrote:

      I ran out of gas on the way home from my softball game last night.

      Good! That means that you used less gas than you would have and you are doing your part to save the environment from global warming!

    • #29541

      I drive 150 miles each day to work and back with my air conditioner on full blast.

    • #29542
      Derek
      Member

      @vazzy vazquez wrote:

      I drive 150 miles each day to work and back with my air conditioner on full blast.

      I feel terrible for you. Do you at least play the radio at the same time?

    • #29543
      stiles
      Member

      I don’t even like fish burritos. I asked that because I wanted to know if I needed to avoid them.

      Yeah right. Everybody knows Moderaotr Jansen lieks a little fishy taco every now and then.

      Hehehehehe.

    • #29544
      el radio
      Member

      If being environmentally conscious makes me an idiot, then I’m a moron. I, like most environmental scientists who are known for being environmentally conscious morons, believe that global warming is a fact.

      Regardless of what you think about Global Warming…this world has been around for billions of years, and it has had to deal with a lot worse shit than global warming. Hurricanes, earthquakes, plate tectonics, magnetic reversal of the poles, re-occuring ice ages, meteors, and so much more that i cant even name them all.

      I am not trying to say that nothing can be accomplished, but to think that a bunch of people can actually fix the world by stopping pollution, making the world a better place, and stopping oppresive heat is biting off way more than any scientists combined can chew.

      If at all possible…maybe the earth is trying to get rid of us because we are such a pain in the ass for trying to fix it in our vision.

      You’re always gonna have rebels who want nothing to do with any type of environmental cleansing of the area they live in, and regardless of all information there may be leading to global warming, the majority of people in this world dont care…and lets be serious…there are a lot more homeless people and low class people than there are middle and high class people, and if they cant even take care of themselves…they wont do crap to try and fix a problem that doesnt effect there immediate situation. If you dont believe me…then go to any big city and take a look around you.

      im all for helping out as much as i can, but sometimes it seems like a lost cause

    • #29545

      Long before any recorded human history in Yellowstone, a massive volcanic eruption spewed an immense volume of ash that covered all of the western U.S., much of the Midwest, northern Mexico and some areas of the eastern Pacific. The eruption dwarfed that of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 and left a caldera 30 miles wide by 45 miles long.
      That climactic event occurred about 640,000 years ago, and was one of many processes that shaped Yellowstone National Park–a region once rumored to be “the place where hell bubbles up.” Geothermal wonders, such as Old Faithful, are evidence of one of the world’s largest active volcanoes. These spectacular features bemused and befuddled the park’s earliest visitors, and helped lead to the creation of the world’s first national park.

      Fur trappers’ fantastic tales of cauldrons of bubbling mud and roaring geysers sending steaming plumes skyward made their way back east. Several expeditions were sent to investigate, opening the West to further exploration and exploitation. In 1871, Ferdinand Hayden led an expedition that included artist Thomas Moran and photographer William H. Jackson. They brought back images that helped convince Congress that the area known as Yellowstone needed to be protected and preserved.

      In 1872, President Ulysses S. Grant signed a law declaring that Yellowstone would forever be “dedicated and set apart as a public park or pleasuring ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people.”

    • #29546
      Derek
      Member

      I’m gonna have to get to all this later… I have a 6 page paper due in two hours that I haven’t started.

    • #29547
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @el radio wrote:

      Regardless of what you think about Global Warming…this world has been around for billions of years, and it has had to deal with a lot worse shit than global warming.

      Interesting that non-environmentalist are generally conservatvies, conservatives are generally Christians, and (most) Christians believe that the earth is only a few thousand years old.

      Anyhow, the a who-cares attitude about the environment is not compatible with a message that the Earth is God’s creation. Generally the argument made by the right is simlar to what Stiles wrote, improving the economy, unencombering business etc. is a far more important than the environment. In otherwords, man’s creation ahead of God’s. So why does the Christian right not see this? I have an answer, but it is a bit offensive and I wouldn’t accomplish much by sharing it.

    • #29548
      iamdonovan
      Member

      That was a pretty sweet article in Scientific American about supervolcanoes, wasn’t it? That is, for those who read it. And just remember: America has 2 supervolcanoes, which is as many as the entire rest of the world. Go USA!!

      While it is true that the Earth has gone through many changes such as the magnetic reversal of the poles, ice ages, tectonic shift, supervolcanoes, etc., I don’t believe that’s the issue behind global warming. You see, those particular events were outside the scope of human control. We can’t really do a whole lot about the earth’s poles, or about plates shifting, volcanoes erupting, or large rocks from outer space colliding with the earth. All of these events are a part of the normal life cycle of a planet. Rather, I think that the issue at hand is that human activity is speeding up the heating of our planet, so much so that it will be detrimental to our collective health in the long (or even short) run. And by ‘our’, I mean life on Earth. The question is not whether the Earth will be able to withstand our assault; I don’t think we have the capability to destory an entire planet, unless that damned robot has been captured, and the plans have been used. The question, rather, is whether we will be able to survive our actions. I believe, in the interest of self-preservation, that it’s a question worth exploring.

      Now, how would global warming affect next year’s MIAA Championship? Perhaps, if it gets too warm and the pool boils away, we’ll have to find something else to do? I don’t know, I’m just curious.

    • #29549
      stiles
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Generally the argument made by the right is simlar to what Stiles wrote, improving the economy, unencombering business etc. is a far more important than the environment.

      Where did I write this? Pease quote. I think you are a big douche bag worthy of a punch in the babymaker.

    • #29550

      I think you are a big douche bag worthy of a punch in the babymaker.

      Stiles,

      You might want to round up some help when talking about punching someone. However, if you want to throw a shoe at his babymaker…then you should do fine. If you don’t choose to throw a shoe…then I’m not sure your smurf-ass could do anything to a babymaker!

      Vazzy

    • #29551
      el radio
      Member

      @iamdonovan wrote:

      Now, how would global warming affect next year’s MIAA Championship? Perhaps, if it gets too warm and the pool boils away, we’ll have to find something else to do? I don’t know, I’m just curious.

      I don’t think global warming will effect us very much in the pool…UNLESS it gets so hot to where the water does boil and evaporate and the particles in the air fuse with the other particles and somehow mercury precipitates into the pool and every one dies….but i do nt seem that happening

      On a better note (to get back on track) i think that the meet between zoo and hope will be interesting

      4 med: zoo
      1000: hope
      2 free: hope
      50 free: zoo
      2 IM: hope
      2 fly: hope
      2 back: hope
      5 free: hope
      2 breast: zoo
      4 free: hope
      diving: hope hope hope hope hope hope

      the 2 IM could very well go to zoo also, but to my knowledge dekker and henson have never had a head to head besides MIAA. Also the 50 could go either way

      but the big thing that counts is the depth which hope has a little bit more than kzoo. therefore i believe hope will win.

      im sorry that i cant give out times….im not the greatest at that but because i wanted to make it short and get us back on track of the topic

      any arguments?….bring it

    • #29552
      silentp
      Member

      @el radio wrote:

      4 med: zoo
      1000: hope
      2 free: hope
      50 free: zoo
      2 IM: hope
      2 fly: hope
      2 back: hope
      5 free: hope
      2 breast: zoo
      4 free: hope
      diving: hope hope hope hope hope hope

      the 2 IM could very well go to zoo also, but to my knowledge dekker and henson have never had a head to head besides MIAA. Also the 50 could go either way

      but the big thing that counts is the depth which hope has a little bit more than kzoo. therefore i believe hope will win.

      im sorry that i cant give out times….im not the greatest at that but because i wanted to make it short and get us back on track of the topic

      any arguments?….bring it

      No arguments, just a question, who will win the 200 fly for Hope? Just wondering, thanks.

    • #29553
      el radio
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      @el radio wrote:

      4 med: zoo
      1000: hope
      2 free: hope
      50 free: zoo
      2 IM: hope
      2 fly: hope
      2 back: hope
      5 free: hope
      2 breast: zoo
      4 free: hope
      diving: hope hope hope hope hope hope

      the 2 IM could very well go to zoo also, but to my knowledge dekker and henson have never had a head to head besides MIAA. Also the 50 could go either way

      but the big thing that counts is the depth which hope has a little bit more than kzoo. therefore i believe hope will win.

      im sorry that i cant give out times….im not the greatest at that but because i wanted to make it short and get us back on track of the topic

      any arguments?….bring it

      No arguments, just a question, who will win the 200 fly for Hope? Just wondering, thanks.

      i kind of flew through my ideas of who would win and i didnt really think about the 2 fly all that well. my thought is that waterstone would be the one to win it, but say waterstone and dekker were to go up against eachother just after doing the 2 IM (which could be possible) that makes a bit of a change and i am actually not positive on who would win that race. both guys will be tired regardless if diving gives them a little rest. so to change my decision on the 2 fly i would have to say i am undecided.

      P why don’t you give me your thoughts for the two fly

    • #29554
      silentp
      Member

      I respect the indecision and feel Dekker and Waterstone would clash in both the IM and the 2fly (if in fact they go long). Both will be great races and as you stated, could go either way. Being a K guy, i’d take Dekker’s side and being a Hope guy, you’d take Waterstone’s side. Points can be made for both, without a doubt.

      A couple points on this: if they go short, instead of long, Dekker still might swim the fly, but i’d tend to pick Waterstone in that matchup. If they do the long IM (as they did last time), then i’d say Dekker has to be the favorite in your eyes as well, but it could go both ways with Waterstone winning the 4IM and Dekker winning the 1fly… hard, but not impossible.

      If K has no divers (maybe they’ll have a female?) and Hope has only 1 or 2, this could change things. Both could still swim it, but the last 50 of that 200 fly is going to be on the pain train.

      You also gave no victories for Ellis, not saying he MUST win something, but i think he will. Maybe he’d win the 100 free which was accidently left of.

      In season Ellis times: 22.1 50, 47.5 100, 53.0 back (52.0 at conf, untapered)… those are all i know, but those weren’t with Kathy 🙂

    • #29555

      SilentP – you said that Radio didn’t give Ellis any wins. Is that Soriano winning the 50? Or Ellis? Or doesn’t it matter? I actually have to tend to agree with Radio on the 200 Back and the Hope win over K in a dual meet. Heyboer has posted some impressive 200 back times and I have been unable to find a 200 back time on Ellis. Do you know what he has been? He was specific enough to note that it was a 200 as opposed to a 100.

      Radio, did it feel strange to pick K to win the 50? Who do you have winning it for them?

      Also in your butterfly conversation…it’s interesting that neither of you even brought up Ryan Nelis’ name (or Greiner’s for that matter). Perhaps that is because he doesn’t have much experience in the event. I could only find results of him in the 200 fly one time when I did my brief search. The Hope/K meet has been early in the year the past couple years and if it is again this year (does anyone know when this meet is yet?) this would be a disadvantage to him. But I think he is worth mentioning. Both his 50 and 100 fly are better than Dekker and Waterstone (although Waterstone had a very impressive 100 fly split at MIAAs last year when he did not swim the 100 Fly event itself). Maybe I’m way out in leftfield right now even throwing his name into the mix but if it were a 100 fly, his name should have been mentioned if I am out of place for bringing it up in the 200 Fly.

    • #29556
      swimkid4221
      Member

      The reason you can’t find any times on Ellis outside of the normal high school events is because he didnt’ swim outside of high school. He has been 50. and 46 with only high school training.

    • #29557
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Generally the argument made by the right is simlar to what Stiles wrote, improving the economy, unencombering business etc. is a far more important than the environment.

      Where did I write this? Pease quote. I think you are a big douche bag worthy of a punch in the babymaker.

      You are right, it was El Radio. My apologies for confusing the two of you.

    • #29558
      silentp
      Member

      I assumed the pick for the 50 was Fonzi, not Ellis, but I could be wrong. He was my pick. It could easily go the other way also.

      Griener, from what I have heard (and i have heard wrong before), is better at shorter distance fly, so if it’s the 2fly, i won’t bet on him. Nelis would have a shot, but his experience would hurt him at this point in the seson (you never know though). Also, Don Kimball could be a name to through out. Broke his hand not long before MIAAs last year, a true distance guy who went 2:10 in the 2fly at the first meet of the year. Only 4 seconds slower than Waterstone went a month later. A long shot to be sure, but a name worthy of mention.

      I’d give the edge to Heyboer in the 2back as well, but i won’t count out Ellis of winning a couple events or possibly going on both relays.

    • #29559
      silentp
      Member

      Scored out the Dual using PR’s in each event (did with a friend so I wouldn’t have to find all PR’s):

      Hope 131 K 88
      or
      Hope 119 K 93

      Probably many other “ors”, but this is how it looks. I think K is a better league meet team, but Hope might be also.

    • #29560
      silentp
      Member

      Looking at the results from the duals this past weekend, K would need several upsets to beat Hope. My guess is that Heyboer will swim the 1000 instead of the 200 (because of the solid 200 by Rose), but i am unsure whether he will go with the 2breast to take out fonsy or 2back to take out ellis, if ellis swims it. Not saying he’d for sure win both, just saying he’d be favored after this past weekend’s swims.

      We also didn’t see everything from K, which is interesting, with Dekker not in the IM or 2fly, Ellis not in the MR or 100 back, Julio not in the 1000 and a few others not in events you’d suspect they’ll swim against Hope.

      Hopefully for both teams it’s another weekend of fast racing and improvements. Best of luck!

    • #29561
      stewie
      Member

      The meet will have long and short stroke events as well as the 2 med and 2 fr relay. Also, does anyone know anything more about these micro and macro cycles for K’s training? Does this mean they will fast some weeks and significantly slower other weeks? I guess you could say I’m what you call retarded…If K swims like they did at the relay meet, they have top-end guys to win alot of events.

    • #29562
      silentp
      Member

      @stewie wrote:

      The meet will have long and short stroke events as well as the 2 med and 2 fr relay. Also, does anyone know anything more about these micro and macro cycles for K’s training? Does this mean they will fast some weeks and significantly slower other weeks? I guess you could say I’m what you call retarded…If K swims like they did at the relay meet, they have top-end guys to win alot of events.

      I think your assumption would be correct that some weeks K will swim fast and some they will swim slow. It will all depend on where the meet falls in the cycle. You’d have to think that if Kathy is altering the cycle at all, or planned it out before hand, that this would be a meet she’d want the team swimming fast at.

    • #29563
      Waldo
      Member

      I would think its rather hard drop off a micro cycle for a friday meet because you have that weekend to follow where you cannot go back up right away. So even if K came down a bit I would guess it would not be more then 1 or 2 days of lower yardage probably earlier in the week if they are planning a mid season taper. Also because it is farther into the macro cycle they would not come down quite as much. I dont know if they do taper mid season traditionally though…Does anyone know if they do and when?

    • #29564
      silentp
      Member

      @Waldo wrote:

      I would think its rather hard drop off a micro cycle for a friday meet because you have that weekend to follow where you cannot go back up right away. So even if K came down a bit I would guess it would not be more then 1 or 2 days of lower yardage probably earlier in the week if they are planning a mid season taper. Also because it is farther into the macro cycle they would not come down quite as much. I dont know if they do taper mid season traditionally though…Does anyone know if they do and when?

      Traditionally they have taken a close to full taper at the mid season for the 1st or 2nd weekend in December (depending on when it falls). Unsure if they will do the same this year or not.

    • #29565
      David Simms
      Member

      This could be a dangerously close meet…let’s take a closer look at things, shall we? K may have the two best swimmers and 3 of the top 4 and wins matter in a dual meet but Hope still has to be the favorite.

      Medley
      K has to put it together because even if they leave just Dekker off of it, they run the risk of Hope winning it. I mean it’s possible that Hope *could* win it anyway. So right off the bat K’s 3 studs have all swum, thus handing Hope a 1-2 in the last relay. Not to mention Hope doesn’t lose anything by putting their best medley relay together. Adantage Zoo

      1000
      Contreras is probably the frontrunner here on Tuesday going into the meet. But Hope’s distance foursome may be able to cause some problems. Julio was 4:59 at the relays and supposedly gets better as the distance increases. But it seems to me that the odds are in Hope’s favor. Why? Because one of their 3 guys needs to touch the wall first, Kimball will be a distant 5th. In K’s absolute best case scenario they win the event 10-9. Advantage Hope

      200
      I don’t see anyone on K’s team that could beat Heyboer, Rose or maybe even VanderBroek if he swims it. Not to mention OBrien was faster than Ellis last week for his 6th place finish at the Olivet dual. Can K pick up a win here? Doubtful. Could Espinosa steal it? Maybe. What about Dekker? Not sure. Probably won’t be Ellis because the backstroke is next. Advantage Hope.

      100 Back
      Ellis should win. Who swims the event for Hope? I see any number of guys being able to fill in the 2,3,4 spots. Will Heyboer show up in this event? If Hope wants to guarantee what they can guarantee I would think he’d be in the 200 Free. We can only hope for this matchup. Like the 1,000, the best case scenario is a 10-9 K favor. Advantage Zoo.

      100 Breast
      K’s chance to open things up a little bit. Espinosa, Booms, Kovas, Dekker (dont plan on seeing him here though). This and the fly are K’s strength. It’s possible they could 1-2 things and save Espinosa for later. Because Booms and Kovacs were 1:03.5 and 1:04.0 last week and Hope’s King and Tozer were 1:03.5 and 1:04.1 I am anticipating Espinosa to be here anyhow. Advantage K

      200 Fly
      Nelis showed us last week he’s more than just a sprint fly guy when he knocked off defending MIAA Champ Koji Takahashi. But Bobby Dekker has been swimming great so far this year. And this is a place that KZoo needs to pour the salt into the cut they opened in the breaststroke. Advantage Zoo

      50 Free
      The short freestyles couldn’t get here soon enough for Hope. But what happens with Paul Ellis shows up in the 50 free? He will bring his 21.4 split from the MIAA Relays with him and demand the center lane. Even if that is the case, it’s a wash with Hope easily claiming 2-3-4 if Ellis swims it AND manages to out dual Hope’s slew of sprinters. Advantage Hope

      1M Diving
      Historically this is where K would own up on the Flying Dutchmen. This Friday it could be a deciding event. Believe it or not, Hope may be favored in the event. Now last Saturday Hope’s diver posted a higher score than K’s duo. Of course there were different judges at the two duals so it makes it much more difficult to predict a winner. But K has two divers so the possibility for a 1-3 finish is always there. Advantage: unclear

      100 Free
      Again, Hope is licking their chops at the opportunity to throw down a nasty point swing here. This is where the guesswork comes into play. Put an Ellis or an Espinosa here and you may have a chance to win. Ellis probably provides you with a better opportunity for the win but K has more depth at the breaststroke events. Part of this decision may hinge on where K thinks Heyboer will show up. Advantage Hope

      200 Back
      Ellis or no ellis? If no ellis, who to break up the Hope sweep? Dekker? Advantage Hope

      200 Breast
      We saw that Heyboer battled defending MIAA Champ Meisner to the end in the 200 breast last weekend and posted a time that was 6 seconds faster than Espinosa’s. Beyond that King and Cook look like they are right on pace with Kovacs for a great race. Booms didn’t swim this event last weekend but I’d be surprised if he sat it out on Friday. Advantage Hope

      500 Free
      Same as 1,000. Except one of Hope’s guys will likely be fresh for this race. Advantage Hope

      100 Fly
      Dekker has shown us more speed early on this year than he did last year. Nelis has shown he is among the elite swimmers in the MIAA. KZoo has the depth in this event though, Advantage: Zoo

      3M Diving
      Look for K to throw a diver in this event on Friday. They can’t afford to give this event to Hope. Advantage Hope

      200 IM
      Heyboer vs Dekker. Another instant classic. Hope has the depth. Advantage Hope

      200? Free Relay
      If what stewie says is true and this is a 200 Free Relay, all the more favor to the orange and blue. The 200 Free Relay has been their baby for far too long and the Hornets won’t change that in a dual. Advantage Hope

      Overall Advantage: Hope but by less than the experts think

    • #29566
      Stevo
      Member

      david simms, dekker, ellis, and espinosa can’t swim everything. I think there will be some great races but you have the posiblitly of Dekker in 6 events, ellis in 6 events, and espinosa in 5. if all three of them are on the medley that leaves them 3 swims each. When you weed out the events they won’t be in, that is where hope takes over. If i were Kathy i would put ellis both backstrokes and the 50, dekker in the 2 free, 2 fly, and 2Im, and put espinosa in both breastrokes and the 100 free. That leaves only the 1 fly without one of the three stooges. You will sacrifice the last relay, and the 1 fly but great races in all the other events. It should be a fun meet.

    • #29567
      Stevo
      Member

      I am not sure if it was Facenorth or Axl but thanks for giving me a picture!

    • #29568
      silentp
      Member

      I pretty much agree with Stevo except i might go with Dekker in the 1fly and let him race with Nelis, then leave the 200 without one of the 3 amigos. Even if the meet doesn’t end up that close, i think there will be some good races.

    • #29569
      stewie
      Member

      Does anyone know who was on K’s med relay last weekend? I would assume Ellis, Espinosa, Dekker, Hennigar/Parker, but I couldn’t find it in the results. Maybe I’m just didn’t look hard enough. Just curious if they put their best on it. If so, they went 1:40.1 while Hope went 1:38…adv Hope? Or will K step up and swim faster? They obviously have the fastest first half in the league. Hope will have to make up ground in the final two legs. If you use the best splits thus far this yr from both teams here is what you get…I would guess both teams will swim slower times than these but it’s an indicator of how close it could be.

      Hope
      Heyboer- 25.2 (Olivet)
      King-27.8 (Olivet)
      Nelis-23.3 (Relay Meet)
      Kurti- 21.6 (Olivet)
      1:37.9

      K
      Ellis-24.6
      Espinosa- 26.5
      Dekker-23.6
      Parker- 22.9
      1:37.7 (MIAA relay meet time)

    • #29570
      maverick1
      Member

      stewie for the K medley you’d put dmitruk’s split on there of 22.39 from the relay meet to get K’s best add-up of

      1:37.2

      Ellis-24.6
      Espinosa-26.5
      Dekker-23.6
      Dmitruk-22.4

    • #29571
      silentp
      Member

      The Medley relay against Albion was
      Dekker
      Fonsy
      Greiner
      Ben

      It is still advantage K, but Hope won’t be too far behind. It will just be too much to make up on the last 2 legs. With someone beside Ellis, look for him to be under 24.5. Also, the difference between Dekker and Nelis isn’t much, so most of the comeback would come on freestyle. The biggest seperation between Hope and K on the front half will be in the breast which could be 2.5 seconds and will be at least a second and a half.

    • #29572
      DonCheadle
      Member

      How I would do it:

      fonzi: 50 free, 100 breast and both relays
      Ellis: Medley Relay, 100 Free, 100 back, 200 back
      Dekker: Medley Relay, 100 Fly, 200 IM, and whatever 3rd event he wants

      What relays are being contested? Long or Short?

    • #29573
      stewie
      Member

      Meet will have long and short strokes, 2 IM (unlike last yr) and the 2 med relay and 2 fr relay.

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