Hope and Albion at Wheaton Invite, Day 1

Forums Conferences Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association Hope and Albion at Wheaton Invite, Day 1

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    • #12130
      quacker
      Member

      http://www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/swimming/07results/Invite1.html

      Some stuff that jumped out at me.

      200 FR Relay
      -UWM and Hope tie for first. Rose’s 20.80 anchor is impressive.

      200 IM
      -Hope had a pretty solid crew in this. Best times from finals and prelimes include Heyboer’s 1:54.86 (B Cut), Waterstone’s 1:56.18, Nelis’s 1:56.97 (4.4 seconds better than prelims), and Engers’s 2:00.87.

      500 Free
      -Krone 4:35.56 New Meet and Pool Record taking down Hope’s Assink.
      -Richardson’s 4:53.06 is really nice. I think he has a really good chance of finaling in that at the MIAA meet.

      100 BR
      -King at 1:01.09

      200 BK
      -Hope had another pretty good crew in this event. Heyboer’s 1:54.10 (B Cut), Ruch’s 1:58.48, Engers’s 1:59.32, Bravo’s 1:59.98 (awesome), Collins’s 2:02.75. Four of those guys would have finaled last year at the league meet. Heyboer brought it home in 28.99! Oz’s little bro picks up the win.

      100 FR
      -Hope’s Vogelzang (girl one) gets a B cut. 53.05. Ansilio not far behind.
      -Rose 46.89. CVB 47.35 prelims. 4 Hope other guys at 48 mid.
      -Bacon 47.25.

      200 FLY
      -Smith with a solid B Cut.
      -Waterstone 1:58.83 in prelims.
      -Nelis drops a bit of time again at night to 1:57.95.
      -Hoesch is right about at his MIAA time last year. 2:01.77. Nice.

      800 FR Relay
      -Hope women get a B Cut. CVZ has a nice split on back.
      -CVB leads off in 1:44.85.
      -It’s hilarious to me that Hope’s men fielded five 800 free relays while Albion brought exactly 3. Not 3 relays, but 3 dudes.

      400 Med Relay
      -Nelis (51.22) and Rose (46.50) have great splits.
      -Ruch leads off with 54.40. Closer to his HS state time. On a side note, remember when Vroegindewey got 2nd in the 100 back last year at the MIAA meet? That was awesome.

    • #32653
      swim5599
      Member

      ANyone know if Heyboer was rested at all? I thought he might be more around 1:52 in the 200 back at this meet

    • #32654
      T-Bone
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      ANyone know if Heyboer was rested at all? I thought he might be more around 1:52 in the 200 back at this meet

      Must be at least “partially” rested. I think his 1:54 is down from 1:56 and his IM was 1:54, down from 1:58 so far this season.

    • #32655

      Heyboar was on about three days of rest. I am really skeptical about some of these results. I think Patnott was really drilling everybody right before the three day rest, especially Hope’s studs. Maybe a five day taper would have been more appropriate.

      With that in mind, I think Hope performed really well, especially that last relay: Rose at 45 high.

      The sprints are not where I anticipated at all. I was thinking 1:23ish for their 2 free relay. I wonder if there is a physiological reason for that.

      Wash U’s 8 free relay was great considering the absence of Slavik and Triebe. They have really bounced back nicely.

    • #32656
      silentp
      Member

      @quacker wrote:

      100 BR
      -King at 1:01.09

      This jumped out at you? Really? I won’t say more, because everyone knows what i am thinking.

      I was impressed with some of the Hope swims though, especially Rose. I did expect a bit more, but compared to past years, this isn’t bad at all.

    • #32657

      Yeah P, you wanted a 45 out of Rose? How about anchoring the 4 Free in a 45.7? It was an excellent meet for a number of others as well: Heyboer, Nelis, King… just to name some newbies

    • #32658
      silentp
      Member

      @Samuel L Jackson wrote:

      Yeah P, you wanted a 45 out of Rose? How about anchoring the 4 Free in a 45.7? It was an excellent meet for a number of others as well: Heyboer, Nelis, King… just to name some newbies

      It’s ok to post without reading my post but commenting on it, that’s cool. I said i was impressed by Rose, and also CVB’s 200 free, which i forgot to mention, but I was commenting on the King mention with those other times… Also, Nelis being 2nd right now with a solid time, and a good drop for just december, is very good.

    • #32659

      Apologies, I was just itching to put his time out there once more

    • #32660
      silentp
      Member

      Hope has some holes to fill and you wonder if that’s where Olivet will make their move, but they also have events like the 200 IM or 50 where they are absolutely stacked. I have to think Hope is leading after the first day… they could put 4 into top 6 in the IM with Dekker and Yury… that’s not a stretch at all, in fact, it’d be dissappointing if they don’t. They could do the same in the 50, but that’s tougher to call. Heyboer’s time is basically what he went at state meet senior year, just minus a back-breat flip, and since Hope typically drops time from mid season to miaas, i’d say they are right on track. Same with the 200 FR, it was slower than i expected, but i still see them at 1:23 come february.

    • #32661
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      Silent P not cool…not cool guy.

    • #32662
      silentp
      Member

      @Lane2AllStar wrote:

      Silent P not cool…not cool guy.

      This is what happens when you come on here, talk sh!t so much that your teammates and alums wouldn’t back you up, and then don’t live up to it. The season is far from over however so this means NOTHING in the scheme of things… but if you don’t like it, do something about it, or don’t read it.

    • #32663
      maverick1
      Member

      i don’t know if we’ll see a 1:23 out of this team, i think they’ll be much better in the 400 free relay.

      hope’s holes = olivet strengths, and i kind of believe it also. olivet looks to be very strong in the breaststrokes with meisner, key and the others, i think kzoo is actually stronger, but the fact remains that olivet will beat up on hope, badly in the breaststrokes. other places where i think olivet will beat out hope: distance free, medley relays and general depth……we’ll see though, hope on paper does look a lot better than they swam against olivet and better than many of them swam at wheaton (rose had a great meet, cvb was pretty good, heyboer was pretty good, waterstone was pretty good)

      something that stuck out to me from the wheaton results, were the swims by vogelzang….he didn’t seem on his game at all, but i think he really turned it on during the second half of the season last year.

    • #32664
      maverick1
      Member

      and that breaststroker from hope who posts on here definitely learned something (hopefully) about eating his own words.

    • #32665
      Stevo
      Member

      I agree on the whole hopes weaknesses are olivets strengths and that is why we rely on the K breastroke team, and other teams to help out. I wasn’t blown away by the EMU meet, K usually swims a ton faster, and calvin at least has a couple descent swims. I also think that hope had a better wheaton meet than they usually do. Why doesn’t olivet have a mid season meet, that makes me mad. As for Brandon King, I wouldn’t worry about him, Wheaton is hit or miss. I am not really sure how he ate his words, was he talking smack about how sweet he was going to swim at the midseason meet? He’s got plenty of time. He might be a lot like henniger, what happened to that kid this past weekend? It seems that all of you guys missed a fairly significant part of the wheaton results which could be the factor on why Olivet might repeat. See what you can find!

    • #32666
      silentp
      Member

      You think Olivet will take Hope out in the medlies? Hmm, i am unsure on that, but breastroke will kill Hope as it stands right now.

      I agree about the general depth strongly favoring Olivet. Also, remember they have the bodies to put into league-wide weak events (4IM, 500, 1650, 100 back) and score major points.

      Calvin looks to hurt Hope the most, because their guys seems to be middle distance and sprint freestylers, with a few other guys sprinkled in, but i still feel their overall effect will hurt Hope more than it will Olivet.

    • #32667

      I am a space cadet

    • #32668

      This is what happens when you come on here, talk sh!t so much that your teammates and alums wouldn’t back you up, and then don’t live up to it. The season is far from over however so this means NOTHING in the scheme of things… but if you don’t like it, do something about it, or don’t read it.

      Aren’t you supposed to be a moderator? Not an agitator?
      So what, L2A has said some stupid stuff, does that mean you’re supposed to right his wrongs by attacking him? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not backing him up in anyway, I’m just trying to find the logic behind a moderator becoming one of the more liberal people that posts on the site.

    • #32669
      maverick1
      Member

      apparently iguessthatsme is new around here…….

    • #32670
      Stevo
      Member

      My previous post was about the absence of Dan Gardner, apparently i missed the post by Quacker in the 200 free discussion. All of you are aware of Dan not being on the team. My bad, but in all honesty, it might be the difference between Hope winning and losing the league meet. A captain hanging it up is pretty unreal to me.

    • #32671
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Wow, gardner was a captain? Was this a case of just having had enough? Strange.

      I am not sure what smack L2A spoke but it does it really matter?

      Also, this perception of Kzoo peaking at Eastern is untrue. There are one maybe two well known guys who always swam well there, but that is it. Because these guys were very important to the team a perception was created. But it is not true.

    • #32672
      Lane2AllStar
      Member

      This is what happens when you come on here, talk sh!t

      First of all I did not say anything about Wheaton. The only sh!t you would be refering too would be saying how I said earlier that I thought Hope has a sweet team this year. I still say this. If that is talking shi!t than i talk a lot of it. But then you would be guilty of talking some too. When you stop getting boners about everytime someone from Kzoo drops a hundredth in their event at a dual meet then we can talk.

      but if you don’t like it, do something about it, or don’t read it.

      Well, I enjoy reading what people put on here to keep up to date with the MIAA, although the only time I do not like reading some of this crap is when its you posting about somthing and then responding to your own posts, becuase everyone has stopped listening to you ramble about your predictions of Kzoo winning nats every other week.

    • #32673
      Derek
      Member

      Moderators are not required to keep their opinions to themselves. If anything, they are encouraged to share their opinions. It keeps the conversation moving. For example:

      Kalamazoo is the best team in the league even if they don’t win due to history, class, and academic rigor.

      Betcha there are three different things in that statement that you disagree with and that you could write an essay about. (Actually, there are at least 5 things if you think about the statement for longer than a second.)

    • #32674
      Low Tide
      Member

      Well, I enjoy reading what people put on here to keep up to date with the MIAA, although the only time I do not like reading some of this crap is when its you posting about somthing and then responding to your own posts, becuase everyone has stopped listening to you ramble…

      I thought for a moment he (she?) was writing to Duck! SilentP, are you taking over the reigns?? 😆

    • #32675
      silentp
      Member

      First of all, my original post that started this was made out of a misunderstanding. I midunderstood the post that started this thread that mentioned your time.

      Second of all, yes, i am/was very excited about the K freshmen class and some of the relay possibilities for this season. Yes, i went overboard with certain posts, including the 200 MR at NCAAs, but i was excited. By the way, that post doesn’t look as dumb now, but either way, i’m basically a washed up swimmer that wasn’t that good to begin with, who loves d3, so i get excited, nothing wrong with that i don’t think. I don’t believe i have discussed the importance of dual meets and people dropping time in them… they are dual meets, i think K swimmers understand that as well as anyone.

      I am unsure about the rambling posts and responding to my own posts. If you mean that i start threads, then after conversation is done about them, i comment, then yes, i do that. And also, i do want to keep conversation going, it’s more fun that way, if conversations don’t keep on, then the forum is pointless.

      Low Tide, i could never take over the reigns on rambling from duck, that would be impossible, although his posts are always enjoyed.

    • #32676
      T-Bone
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      I am unsure about the rambling posts and responding to my own posts. If you mean that i start threads, then after conversation is done about them, i comment, then yes, i do that. And also, i do want to keep conversation going, it’s more fun that way, if conversations don’t keep on, then the forum is pointless.

      But you know that you do post and occasionally do make some long, boring posts (sometimes known as rambling) from time to time. Call it what you want and justifiy it – it just depends on your perspective.

    • #32677
      Rent-boy
      Member

      No offense SilentP, but give it up. They are good (well 2 of them are) but the other two arent at all strong enough to hang with the rest of the national medleys.

      HOPE WINS ALL THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!

      Cheadle that sounds like a really good relay. Problem is all this LCM conversion is BS. The kid is a a good meter swimmer. Maybe hes not that amazing in yards. Not saying hes bad. Im sure hes a 56 breast stroker but 24.9 is a little out there for a 56 guy. Im guessing somthing more like a 25.4 for a 56 mid or 56 low.

      Hope wins all relays is my prediction.

      Nah, fer those uh ye not recognisin’ th’ above, these’r all posts frem Lane2Allstar, who claims not to have talked any sh!te this year. Nah offense, mate, but yer comin’ off as a bit of a ned ‘ere, ‘nd ah like yer spirit, so ahm ginna ‘elp ye out. Ye cannae expeck t’be taken seriously in th’ face o’ such evidence. Nah, ahm pretty sure that th’ first of these quotes is jolly well discredited. A quick look at a results page willnae desprove me. Th’ third post, about Fonsy not breaking 24.9, well… ’nuff said there. Ahve been outtae school for a while, ‘nd ah never got up to Uni, but any knobhead can tell ye that 24.9>24.8. Th’ other two quotes are obviously sh!te-talking, but we all d’et, it’s th’ point of this website. Th’ difference is, we all (gen’rally) admit to it, and th’ majority of th’ posters here are, as silentp so eloquently put it, warshed-up auld swimmers. Yer jes’ a fresher, ye ‘ave some time left in ye, and like ah said, yer looking like a bit of a ned in this instance. Ye cannae expeck t’be taken seriously

      As far as silentp’s ‘ard-ons about K swimming goes, yer barking up th’ wrong tree. He gets far ‘arder when he sees a tidy bird like that dead gal from the OC than he does for swimming. But, les’ gerroff the subjeck of silentp’s love life an’ back on the subjeck of swimming. Just because ‘e’s tryin’ta start some banter is no reason to ‘ave a go at ‘im, eh?

    • #32678
      Duck
      Member

      This reminds me of my recent travels, I had held back from posting out of respect for the pain all True Americans must feel at the advances made by the Demoncrats at our recent elections, their bouyancy billowed by bribes to the negro, mulatto, mafioso and levanter. Nonetheless, the introduction of rent-boy, albeit taunted by travails of his own, requires me to render an account of my planned actions at Taff’s End, his ancestral home.

      After only a few weeks on remand I was presented to the magistrate – Major Tarry – on a charge of “Being at Large as a Scotts Man betwixt ye Houres of Mattins and Compline au sein of ye Townes Walls, uncladde in gelding-hose and yet sans parole” (Lex Le Despenser Sicut Regale, Lhudlowe, 1321 AD). The doughty old warhorse barely raised his leonine brow from his cups before muttering “guilty as a Frenchman!” and referred me for defrocking to the local ecclesiastical court.

      I began to express my gratitude for his mercy and to elucidate the point, possibly lost on one so preoccupied with matters of law that I am not an Anglican, nor yet fit to be, when Constable Bowen thoughtfully slipped the hessian sack back over my ears and escorted me headfirst down the steps to the cell.

      After several days of what I can only describe as high-spirited horseplay from the police doghandlers and their canine companions, I was escorted behind Sgt Perrie’s aptly appellated Austin Allegro to the custody of Rev Prakash at St Oswald-on-the-Cross, the parish church of Taff’s End. After being simultaneously fed, watered and washed at the village trough, where my sore feet were also tarred by the kindly local drover, I was led to the church for a special service.

      Rev Prakash – a stout Latitudinarian – uses the 1552 Book of Common Prayer with the additions for the Expurgation of the Welch that Rufus de Poer, Bishop of Ludlow, had composed for local use. He told me, in a manner of speaking, that he had long awaited an opportunity to celebrate this latter rite, as chances had been scarce since Rent-boy’s grandfather Baldwin had declared the parish “Welschrein” in 1938.

      Accordingly I was given place of honour on the Scottish Stool in full view of the large congregation from every angle except above, although that was to follow. I was reassured to find that our diet of slate paste and marrow pap has kept the Silurian race as squat and stunted as our Tudor ancestors, so that the neck-brace, codpiece, barbles and palate-rasp fitted me snugly despite the passage of so many years. The gears of the Bewdley Boot did chafe my chilblains, though.

      The service proceeded at what can only be called heavenly length, and, although I was not able to maintain consciousness throughout, it was clear that the congregants “took the timbrel and harp, and rejoiced at the sound of the organ” (Job 21:12 ) – especially as the organ in question was my own. And once the hautboy was unclamped from my parts I, as if at Joshua’s bidding, did add my shout (Joshua 6: 10 )!

      A quiet evening in the stocks followed, where my withers were cooled by the gentle breezes of a December storm and did not escape the curious attentions of hedgrow creatures and “swarming things”. The morning and subsequent evening also gave me leave to proffer words of wisdom to passing pupils and, most memorably, members of the Clun and Teme Rugby Club.

      In the meantime the Rev Prakash had a Mr Atkins equip me according to Rent-boy’s instructions with various curious implements suited for horticultural application and bicycle maintenance and, after further refreshment and ablution at the trough, I have been ordered to survey the grounds of Taff’s End Hall this evening.

      The revellers at The Tethered Goat informed me during my afternoon’s repose on the gibbet that there’s much “yanning, tanning and tethering” afoot at the Hall, so I ask again to be mentioned in your prayers as, like Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, I begin my scouting mission to the land of the Emims and Anakims.

      Yn enw ein Harglwydd Iesu Grist,
      Duck

    • #32679

      Low Tide

      Quote: I thought for a moment he (she?) was writing to Duck!

      haha that’s after the discussion about rambling

    • #32680
      facenorth
      Member

      The thing that I love the most about this thread is that whenever you go to the 2nd page, right there at the very top, the first thing you see, is Captain Insano saying ‘I am a space cadet.’ In no way does that get old.

    • #32681

      @facenorth wrote:

      The thing that I love the most about this thread is that whenever you go to the 2nd page, right there at the very top, the first thing you see, is Captain Insano saying ‘I am a space cadet.’ In no way does that get old.

      By admitting that you find it humorous you acknowledge the inherent truth.

      @Duck wrote:

      …the pain all True Americans must feel at the advances made by the Demoncrats at our recent elections, their bouyancy billowed by bribes to the negro, mulatto, mafioso and levanter.

      Wow.

    • #32682
      T-Bone
      Member

      @Samuel L Jackson wrote:

      Low Tide

      Quote: I thought for a moment he (she?) was writing to Duck!

      haha that’s after the discussion about rambling

      I stand corrected about silentp “rambling.” Duck has redefined the term with that post.

    • #32683
      iamdonovan
      Member

      Actually, by Duck’s standards, that post was somewhat tame. He seems to be dropping his standards of late – perhaps he’s trying to keep his head down so that people don’t see his hairpiece?

      Anyway, the fact that Duck moderates a forum called “Ramblings” that was created to hold all of the tangents he takes is a pretty strong indicator that silentp won’t really ever be able to challenge for that throne.

    • #32684
      Stevo
      Member

      Second of all, yes, i am/was very excited about the K freshmen class and some of the relay possibilities for this season.

      Silentp, you talk about being excited for K’s season but yet you get all over L2A about being excited for Hope’s season. Yes he probably talks a bigger game but he is doing the same thing you are, in a more abrupt way.

      Cut the kid some slack, he is a freshman, most freshman walk into a college program thinking they are going to set the world on fire, lets give him the month of february before letting him have it for the trash talk. What if King splits a 58.0?

    • #32685
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Second of all, yes, i am/was very excited about the K freshmen class and some of the relay possibilities for this season.

      Silentp, you talk about being excited for K’s season but yet you get all over L2A about being excited for Hope’s season. Yes he probably talks a bigger game but he is doing the same thing you are, in a more abrupt way.

      Cut the kid some slack, he is a freshman, most freshman walk into a college program thinking they are going to set the world on fire, lets give him the month of february before letting him have it for the trash talk. What if King splits a 58.0?

      Big difference between an alum with no relation to the team, other than being an alum, says something than when a swimmer on the team and on the relay says it.

      Nothing will happen if he splits 58.0, as we’ve seen from maverick’s predictions of Hope missing top 8 in the 200 FR at NCAAs for the past 2 or so years, being right on a prediction doesn’t usually get much of anything here.

    • #32686
      Stevo
      Member

      The difference between an alum and a current swimmer is the swimmer has way more control. I am not siding with L2A, all i am saying whether you are an alum or current swimmer, if you have reason to be excited about your team, go for it. L2A picked a method that i personally would not choose but at this point he hasn’t not backed up his words.

    • #32687
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I’m not saying L2 won’t go a 58.0. And I am sure as heck not mad at the guy for hanging it out there. But a measured response for his comments is okay because, well, he did say that Hope was going to win all 5 relays! D3 swimming needs some funds, anyone want to take me up on that action!

    • #32688

      I’m not saying L2 won’t go a 58.0. And I am sure as heck not mad at the guy for hanging it out there. But a measured response for his comments is okay because, well, he did say that Hope was going to win all 5 relays!

      Yes, he did predict this, but he also said this before Kzoo picked up Ellis who has definitely shown that he has some speed. If I heard right, Kzoo picked up Ellis in late July – early August ( not quite sure really ) and L2A made his predictions about Hope’s relays on June 11th. I personally don’t think that it was an outrageous prediction with Blohm still possibly on the team and Kzoo without Ellis…but that’s just my opinion.

    • #32689
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Depends on how you look at it. Yes he made the prediction before Ellis, so you could say he was making his best guess on the information he had available to him at that time. OR you could say that he was making a brash prediction before all the information was available.

      Every other year there is an impact guy who doesn’t commit till the late summer…

    • #32690
      silentp
      Member

      He also made that comment about HOPE WINS ALL, which was mostly about the 200 FR, but his comments after seemed to indicate it may mean more, so who knows, but i won’t put words in his mouth.

      Hope has a good shot to win 3 relays, but without gardner, that will likely hurt their 800 FR. I still think Calvin will sneak it out.

      What’s more likely, Hope winning a medley, without FS, or K winning the 200 MR at NCAAs?

    • #32691

      Hope has a good shot to win 3 relays, but without gardner, that will likely hurt their 800 FR. I still think Calvin will sneak it out.

      Really?
      I don’t know…I think it will be a pretty close race but after seeing Hope go 7:02.54 on the same weekend that Calvin went 7:07.73 I would think that Hope would have to be the favorite.

      Calvin ‘A’ 7:05.00 7:07.73
      1) Toll, John 2) Boumgarden, John
      3) Conrad, Keith 4) Tuuk, Peter
      25.43 52.32 1:20.14 1:48.81 23.90 50.55 1:17.34 1:44.89
      24.46 51.75 1:19.43 1:47.67 24.45 52.37 1:19.72 1:46.36

      HOPE COLLEGE-MI ‘A’ 7:00.00 7:02.54
      1) VanderBroek, Charles 2) Rose, Matt
      3) Heyboer, Phil 4) Vogelzang, Ryan
      24.50 51.67 (51.67) 1:18.40 (1:18.40) 1:44.85 (1:44.85)
      2:09.03 (24.18 ) 2:35.58 (50.73) 3:02.92 (1:18.07) 3:30.30 (1:45.45)
      3:54.24 (23.94) 4:20.88 (50.58 ) 4:47.89 (1:17.59) 5:15.21 (1:44.91)
      5:38.42 (23.21) 6:05.45 (50.24) 6:33.97 (1:18.76) 7:02.54 (1:47.33)

    • #32692
      silentp
      Member

      Last year Calvin went in 3 second behind a Hope time that did not include Blohm, which is worth at least 3 seconds, and they lost by 1 second. So this year the 5 seconds, with everyone, doesn’t bother me.

    • #32693

      Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see…
      It is going to be a great race, no doubt about it.

    • #32694
      silentp
      Member

      @iguessthatsme wrote:

      Well, I guess we will just have to wait and see…
      It is going to be a great race, no doubt about it.

      Agreed, to a point, on d3swimming.com, we never just wait and see ;)… but honestly, there was some discussion previously about Olivet being a factor in this relay, do people still believe that to be the case, without Igor?

    • #32695

      no one can really anticipate how Rose will taper at this point in his first college season, but i think that we can all expect CVB to come down well. As for Calvin, I don’t really know what to expect… Olivet? I don’t think we’ll see much of a taper in comparison to other teams

    • #32696
      Aflac
      Member

      Huh? A you saying that you think the team that will not taper as well as other teams is going to be the team that didn’t rest at all in December? Could you clarify what you’re saying Samuel L? While they may not drop as much from in season times to in season times when compared to other teams they will likely drop more than seasons best to seasons best, we’ve seen Albion, Hope and Kalamazoo experience some type of a rest and shave already, Olivet has not, I do not believe Calvin or Alma did either. If you think K, H or A will taper more from their December meets to Leagues than Olivet will from any point to leagues, it would be a very disappointing year for Olivet. I don’t see that as likely.

    • #32697

      True, lots of teams came down at mid-season meets, but given the duration of the season there’s still more than enough time to be broken again before leagues. Olivet, not having come down, doesn’t have rested times to compare to, and will have remarkable drops from in season.

      This said, there are a few teams in the MIAA that are legendary for their tapers. Hope is one of them. That is all.

    • #32698
      David Simms
      Member

      Samuel L wrote:

      This said, there are a few teams in the MIAA that are legendary for their tapers. Hope is one of them. That is all.

      One could also argue that there are only a few teams in the MIAA.

    • #32699
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Samuel L Jackson wrote:

      This said, there are a few teams in the MIAA that are legendary for their tapers. Hope is one of them. That is all.

      Legendary? Are you kidding me?

    • #32700

      DonCheadle

      Samuel L Jackson wrote:
      This said, there are a few teams in the MIAA that are legendary for their tapers. Hope is one of them. That is all.

      Legendary? Are you kidding me?

      no I really am not. Look at some of the studs who posted only acceptable times during season, but never anything to be excited about. And I guess I should have made it clear that I was certainly not referring only to Hope. I guess I’ll just sit down and reiterate what iguessthatsme said: we’ll just have to wait and see.

      also point taken that there are only a few teams in MIAA

    • #32701
      el radio
      Member

      @Samuel L Jackson wrote:

      True, lots of teams came down at mid-season meets, but given the duration of the season there’s still more than enough time to be broken again before leagues. Olivet, not having come down, doesn’t have rested times to compare to, and will have remarkable drops from in season.

      This said, there are a few teams in the MIAA that are legendary for their tapers. Hope is one of them. That is all.

      I am not totally sure about this (that is why im asking) but I thought it was usually better, physically, to have a mid season taper meet? Obviously Stubbs doesn’t like mid season meets, but i thought i heard somewhere that it is better to have a mid season meet than to rather go through an entire season without getting any rest…somebody throw me a bone

    • #32702
      SwexasTim
      Member

      I don’t really know, but I would have to say that its all mental. I would think training right through would be slightly better than coming down, but I also firmly believe the mental break you get for coming down outweighs that difference. I think thats why there such a variance in styles. Some teams come down a week, some a couple days, some just back off a bit, and still others do nothing. I like the couple days to a week, just b/c you can provide the swimmers w/ a fake taper, so they feel rested and have the oppurtunity to put up some good swims.

      how’d i do good?

      someone through me a frickin bonus here….ah thank you i haven’t laughed that hard since i was a little girl, yes.

    • #32703
      Low Tide
      Member

      I always thought it was beneficial to qualify for nationals in December so I did not have to taper for league meet. I do not think I would have performed as well at nationals (at least on a consistent basis) with two full tapers so close together.

      That being said, swimmers for whom nationals is a long shot or a couple years away, I would rest and shave for December, but minimally… definitely not a full taper.

      The largest problem I feel we had at Kzoo was the Christmas break. It came right after Florida when most of us were putting in our best practices of the year, and then a lot of swimmers would go home and blow that base, either by not swimming at all or by hopping in the pool once or twice for a couple thousand yards only.

      Coach Kathy: If you read this, I would sit down with each swimmer before the break and ask what their plans are for training over the break. Explain how important it is to maintain their threshold, especially when leagues are only a few months away. If they do not have plans, work with them to find a local pool or local high school team to train with. If they are vacationing with their family, give them some sort of workout regimen. You can’t force anyone to stick to it, but hopefully they will at least realize the importance of maintaing that training trip.

    • #32704

      In retrospect, I disagree. I think that base is pretty hard to lose. After every season I give myself about a week off and I jump back in. Usually I am about as fast as I was during the meet. Also, I have heard that it takes two weeks to lose training by doing nothing at all. If you are actively resting it takes a lot longer. The key is that you actually do something and eat the right foods. You shouldn’t lose any of your Christmas break training if you slack for a few days.

      Sometimes I think swimming coaches get lost in the rigorous training thing and overemphasize constant yardage over a period of months. Perhaps it makes you fast but not for the reasons they believe.

      Again, what everyone forgets about over the holidays is eating healthy and getting sleep. Everyone makes swimming out to be this sport where your performance is directly dependent on how many all-out 25’s you do or how many morning practices you make. There are so many other factors that go into getting faster and they are too often overlooked by coaches…

      I am just speaking from personal experience. Patnott has a Ph.D. in this stuff so I would take his recommendation over anything. I think that is one of the perks of swimming at Hope. Unfortunatley, I don’t think many of his current swimmers listen closely to his advice on general health effects on swimming.

    • #32705
      Low Tide
      Member

      I’ll agree on the health, eating and sleeping needing to be emphasized more part (I ate like crap in college)… but I have seen too many swimmers struggle to get back up to snuff after not swimming after Christmas break. A *FEW* days is fine, if you mean two or three, but I know many take the entire week off or barely dip their toes in.

      I know I could feel the difference after three days off.

      The whole ‘second-chance’ meet for the most part is a bust. Perhaps you might be able to approach your best times after a *whole* season’s training and a week off, but even with a full season in, most swimmers disappoint at a second-chance meet. Taking a week off halfway through the season is even worse.

    • #32706
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Kurt I respect your point of view, but I disagree. Well, partially disagree. I don’t think that you need to get up Chrstmas morning and swim 7,000 yards. But a full week off? I am not so sure.

      The problem that Robbins was alluding to, and this was a real problem at Kzoo in the mid-late 90’s was that guys were getting home from Florida and then swimming a total of 1 or 2 times for the next 2-3 weeks. Obviously we all agree that that is not going to cut it. When you come back from Christmas you have 4 weeks of training before tapering for MIAAs. That is a very short amount of time.

      I am curious, when does Hope do their winter training?

    • #32707
      facenorth
      Member

      Hope’s training is after Christmas. Typically the 27th or 28th, depending on how the calendar falls.

    • #32708
      Insight
      Member

      I am going to disagree with taking time off as well. I have no doubt that most, if not all, schools do not have mandatory practice during exam week. Typically this falls very shortly after what woudl be a team’s mid season shave meet. In my humble opinion, that is one of the most importnat week of the entire season. As a swimmer, if you back off, you have given yourself the time off from working the base yardage for too long (add mid season shave/rest/taper/whatever) to another week out of the water…on top of this, a swimmer may go home and practice a ew days a week with a high school team.

      This is a tragic way to hurt your self for the league meet. If I was a coach, I would make that week of exams and the week after the midseason shave as mandatory as possible without making it mandatory.

    • #32709
      Stevo
      Member

      It also depends on the events that you swim. If you are a 1650/400 IM guy and you all of christmas break off or only swim 2000 yards a day it is going to hurt a little more than say a sprinter. In the words of Coach Patnott, “How good do you want to be?”

      Pancho….nutrition is key i know, but i don’t know if i could handle all that red beans and rice and power bars like you dude.

    • #32710

      @Stevo wrote:

      Pancho….nutrition is key i know, but i don’t know if i could handle all that red beans and rice and power bars like you dude.

      I should’ve seen that one coming.

      You are all right though. You definitely don’t want to miss training if you have the time and energy to do so. I was just shedding light on some overlooked aspects of training. It’s a big trade off. at what point does swimming take over your whole life? Coach can’t control you outside of practice but for me it was always rewarding to know that I had refuled the right way.

      I am not condeming those that eat Taco Bell. Maybe that’s a bad example though in light of recent events.

    • #32711
      Gargamel
      Member

      Insano wrote:

      After every season I give myself about a week off and I jump back in. Usually I am about as fast as I was during the meet.

      Apologies to Capt Insano. My post was not intended to be a personal attack at all. It was actually intended to be humerous, something we can laugh about now. If anyone read it in such a manner that was offensive, I am sorry.

    • #32712
      Stevo
      Member

      Hey angry gargamel….what is the point of that post? If you have a problem with the way Kurt tapered while at Hope private message him or something. Good thing you said something, something might change because of it. Tool..

    • #32713

      Lashon Ha-Ra,

      Is dizer Gargamel der zon fun Reb Elijah Gargamel (z”l)?

      Ikh hob gern zayner shiur fun Bamidbar (17:34) “And all Israel around them fled at their shrieks”.

      Er hot gezogt dos diz was keyn jammer, ober gikher a koyles (kolam – shrieks) “that caused people to come and see this wonder, the likes of which there had not been since the six days of creation.”

      Dos shtimt a donner un blitzn. Ven meyne froy Rivke macht latkes, Reb Nachman fun undzerer yeshiva zogt dos si “donner un blintzes” sint!

      Ay, we laughed.

      Zey gezunt,

      Reb K

    • #32714

      I thought it was funny. He is right though, I was always in the weight room one week before the league meet. I always thought I should taper my weights just like I taper my swimming. Again, way out in left field.

      Anyway, enough about me.

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