high school choices

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    • #11857
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Happy Madison wrote:

      It’s great to see people like Heyboer picking the right school for the right reasons. Personally, I can’t figure out why so many high schoolers inflate their heads so they can say they’re going d1 and then have little to no impact once they get there. what’s the point?

      This has been discussed a bit, but I think it is important to look at again. Before attacking this question, let me define the problem: It is okay for a D3 talent swimmer to go D1, even if he never scores at conference (or even duel meets). If the goal of a swimmer is to walk on at Michigan State, then he should do it. The problem is, many swimmer THINK that this is what they want, only to (quickly) find out that their expectations were wrong.

      I am not so sure if the problem is inflated heads, or if it is undefined goals. A high school senior who says they want to swim D1 (when I worked in recuriting it was usually “I want to swim at a big school”) probably has not defined just what it is they are hoping to accomplish.

      If I were working in recuriting now, this is how I would handle that objection:

      Prospect (let’s say this guy is a 47.0 in the 100) says “I want to swim at a Big School.”
      Reponse: “What are you hoping to accomplish in your swimming career?”
      Prospect: “Well, I just want to be a little fish in a big pond.”
      Respone: “Well that isn’t exactly a career goal, my question is, how fast do you want to be? What do you hope to get out of your experience. When you are done swimming, what will you need to accomplish to be proud of what you have done?”

      These are the kinds of questions that kids do not really think about, and thus they are left aimless. They do not think beyond “I want to be as fast as I can so I should go D1.”

      Help a kid understand what it is that he hopes to accomplish with his swimming and he may be more likely to want to go D3 (or perhaps he will feel more confident about going D1, which is also a good thing).

      The other problem is that some US and HS coaches do not help their swimmers with these issues, and they too fall prey to short-sided thinking. Therefore, they blindly encourage D1 only and abett in the misformation of their swimmers college careers.

    • #29151

      I think the main reason why d3 swimmers go d1 is because highschool coaches view it as a point of pride to send swimmers to d1 schools. They would rather send a 47 freestyler to a UW-Milwaukee or a Davidson and have them get their books paid for than send them to a top quality d3 school. The thought process behind this logic, while somewhat ridiculous, drives highschool, and I imagine club coaches as well, to push their swimmers to d1 when in reality that swimmer should be d2 or d3.

    • #29152
      Derek
      Member

      I was lucky. My coach sat me down when I was a junior and told me that I should start looking for schools that would fit me academically and athletically. He specifically mentioned d3. I was horified at first, but then as I learned more and more about d3, I realized those thruths we all now know.

    • #29153
      Psimon3
      Member

      I coached club for several years and we always pushed athletes that wanted to choose a school that they felt would be the best for them overall. We had a girl that deperately wanted to swim D1. Wasn’t a great swimmer, but could hold her own at a mid-major, she ended up going to a MAC school and did fairly well. She looked at a few d3 schools, but didn’t feel comfortable with the programs. I thought she should have expanded her scope a little but she also did want to be too far from her family.

      Flip that to a girl that was intially only looking at D3 schools, she eneded up being a 4 year walk on at a Big Ten school BUT she was in their exercise science program which was rated #1 in the nation.

      Ultimately, if a club coach isn’t looking out the athletes academic interests then there are doing their athletes a disservice. I’m currently with a Mid-Major D1 and we have lost numorous athletes to D3 school but I have yet to regret anyone of them because the students found something at each of those school that met a need that we were unable to provide.

    • #29154

      First DonCheadle, I think you made a lot of good points. Well thought out.
      I agree, it can depend on Goals, maybe you have always wanted to swim at a specific school, does not matter where you fit in, but that is where you want to swim. Then I say shoot for that, if you are happy never traveling, but being on the team is what is important, good for you (Rudy anyone).

      I think it is always a challenge with high school swimmers to truly understand what they want and what maybe the best fit for them. Looking back I would have gone about my recruitment different. I don’t know if I would have ended up somewhere different, but the fact was, I did not know as much as I thought I did.

      The reality is, most high school kids do not. They don’t understand that this is not one of the big four sports (football, baseball, hockey, basketball), available scholarships are not there. We have a couple of kids looking at colleges now on our team. One is a for sure DI prosepect, looking at some top teams in the Big Ten, SEC and other conferences. Another one is on the border right now, but wants a full ride. What he does not undersand, that to get a full ride in swimming for guys are extremely hard. I knew a couple of guys who were on Big Ten rosters, who were on no scholarship or very little scholarship. Some of the smaller DI teams that he maybe good enough to get a full ride from, are not fully funded in swimming in terms of scholarships. The main challenge is getting them to understand what it is actaully like and what the comitment level is at these different schools.

      I was talking to one of our swimmers who wants to major in one thing, minor in another and swim. I just told her to find all the schools that have all three things, then start ranking them on there plus’s and minus’s.

      I think it is correct to say there are a lot of coaches who do not look out for the best interest of their swimmers, they may want to say they have sent so many kids to D-I or whatever. I see it a lot in the coaching ranks and it is sad. (to many egos) Many of these kids go, are unhappy, but feel they need to stay there or on the team because they are getting money, while others end up dropping out of the sport completely. I have plenty of examples of swimmers I know that these exact situations happened to them.

    • #29155
      swim5599
      Member

      Absolutely correct when you are talking about what your goals are. I would think that every swimmer would want to get better, and if you can do that as the big fish in a small pond at a d3 school than have at it. If you can do it as the 5th best breaststroker at a D1 school than go ahead. To me I just think that many coaches downplay d 3 swimming. So many coaches look at it as a joke. Which is really ashame.

    • #29156
      The Treat
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Absolutely correct when you are talking about what your goals are. I would think that every swimmer would want to get better, and if you can do that as the big fish in a small pond at a d3 school than have at it. If you can do it as the 5th best breaststroker at a D1 school than go ahead. To me I just think that many coaches downplay d 3 swimming. So many coaches look at it as a joke. Which is really ashame.

      its sad that coaches downplay d3 swimming, b/c i dont think a single HS in the nation can post relay times faster than those posted by d3 teams. though there are a few kids in HS swimming who are faster than those in d3 swimming, those are few and far between. i think one of the most humbling and eye opening things for a kid to see during the recruiting process is that he probably wouldnt be on a relay at many of the top d3 teams. though they may not like to hear this at first, they have to think about how much more true this is for a d1 team. showing these times to recruits can even be helpful for a d3 team that may not be in the top 10, but has goals to be there one day.

      there are many who are recruited to a bigger d1 program, convinced to walk on and after just a little while on the team, they quit and (because of the teams size) no one seems to care. if this were a d3 team, i can almost guarantee that people on the team wouldnt let this happen (at least not without a fight). one example is a kid named david sweet (i think 46.8 flat start, 45 relay, 20. relay in the 50), who seriously thought about coming to wash u but b/c of pressure from peers as well as coaches, decided on Texas A&M. only a couple of months into the season and he had already quit. now thats not to say that a swimmer of his caliber cannot go to a d1 program and do great things, but im sure there are plenty of cases like this that happen all the time.

      i wish someone could do a study of what percent of swimmers quit in d1, d2, and d3.

    • #29157
      Psimon3
      Member

      @The Treat wrote:

      i wish someone could do a study of what percent of swimmers quit in d1, d2, and d3.

      Ironically such a study was done though it is awaiting publication. A ten year PhD disertation was done in 2003 on swimmers who remained on their respective teams roster for the duration of their eligibility. If I remember it correctly (don’t hold me to this), but D3 had the highest number of athletes quit or become ineligible for swimming BUT D1 had the higher percentage. Given that there are more D3 school with swimming I can see that. Any school that dropped swimming (men’s and/or women’s) in that ten year span was excluded from the study.

    • #29158
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @The Treat wrote:

      one example is a kid named david sweet (i think 46.8 flat start, 45 relay, 20. relay in the 50), who seriously thought about coming to wash u but b/c of pressure from peers as well as coaches, decided on Texas A&M.

      It is interesting that you sight that example. I know of another guy who ended up at Texas AM as a walk-on last year who did the same thing (swam for a few months and quit). He was told there would be room for him on the team, only to find out in May that there wasn’t. At that point his only option was to swim club.

    • #29159
      silentp
      Member

      @Psimon3 wrote:

      @The Treat wrote:

      i wish someone could do a study of what percent of swimmers quit in d1, d2, and d3.

      Ironically such a study was done though it is awaiting publication. A ten year PhD disertation was done in 2003 on swimmers who remained on their respective teams roster for the duration of their eligibility. If I remember it correctly (don’t hold me to this), but D3 had the highest number of athletes quit or become ineligible for swimming BUT D1 had the higher percentage. Given that there are more D3 school with swimming I can see that. Any school that dropped swimming (men’s and/or women’s) in that ten year span was excluded from the study.

      It does not surprise me one bit that D3 had the highest numbers quit. Many D3 swimmers aren’t that dedicated or only do it for friends/exercise. Once they realize the effort needed, they lose interest. With D2, many swimmers must stay in order to keep their scholarship afford their tuition. D3 also has, on average across the board, much more difficult academic standards and therefore time becomes an issue for those who are borderline to swim anyway.

    • #29160
      The Treat
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      @Psimon3 wrote:

      @The Treat wrote:

      i wish someone could do a study of what percent of swimmers quit in d1, d2, and d3.

      Ironically such a study was done though it is awaiting publication. A ten year PhD disertation was done in 2003 on swimmers who remained on their respective teams roster for the duration of their eligibility. If I remember it correctly (don’t hold me to this), but D3 had the highest number of athletes quit or become ineligible for swimming BUT D1 had the higher percentage. Given that there are more D3 school with swimming I can see that. Any school that dropped swimming (men’s and/or women’s) in that ten year span was excluded from the study.

      It does not surprise me one bit that D3 had the highest numbers quit. Many D3 swimmers aren’t that dedicated or only do it for friends/exercise. Once they realize the effort needed, they lose interest. With D2, many swimmers must stay in order to keep their scholarship afford their tuition. D3 also has, on average across the board, much more difficult academic standards and therefore time becomes an issue for those who are borderline to swim anyway.

      maybe the qualification should be athletes that were recruited. in d3, a lot of times you get people who swam casually in high school and are going to give it the old college try.

    • #29161
      swim5599
      Member

      I think the level of depth at the d 3 level has improved steadily over the last couple of years, which is such a great thing to see. I just wish more HS coaches would open their eyes. In my opinion a kid that goes 48.0 in the 100 free not even be looking at a major D 1 school. Considering it took 46.3 to get selected D 3 this year. But what do I know, I tried the mid major d 1 road at first also. Biggest mistake I ever made.

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