Hauck, Carlson, or Asistant to the Head Coach Andy Hagen

Forums Conferences Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Hauck, Carlson, or Asistant to the Head Coach Andy Hagen

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    • #12078

      Who is the better coach, and why? How about some examples of why each coach is the best? Are there any funny or interesting Carlson / Hauck stories?

      My vote goes to Jon Carlson. He has turned both GAC swimming and GAC tennis completely around. He recruits, he’s fun to swim for, and his swimmers taper pretty well.

      Funny example – My senior year before conference, Jon instructed us all to throw a chair into the deep end, swim to the bottom, and sit in it. Within seconds, Jon was in the water, fully clothed, and start screaming (underwater) at us. It was fantastic motivation, and a terrific example of why Jon is really fun to swim for.

      Any more?

    • #31909

      I think you need to open the debate a bit. Jon Carlson and Dave Hauck have had the most championships, but there are some other great coaches out there.

      One guy I think has stood out the past few years is Andy Clark from Carleton. Their admissions are far tougher than most MIAC schools outside of maybe Mac. I know admissions requirements are less of an issue for Swimming than say Football, but it is still an issue.

      But I’d still go with Jon. He’s built the GAC program from the ground up into a roster that consists of over 80 swimmers. That says a lot about his recruiting skills and the ability to keep swimmers out for the team.

      Jon is also a great motivator. I swam for Jon, and one year he said we were not intense enough. So he had us all wrestle each other. I totally kicked the crap out of All-American Courtney Tussing. He even made blind swimmer Dan Kelly wrestle. Dan won.

      After like 3 guys got inured, and most of the team got cauliflower ear, he canceled any future wresting.

      Jon also once spit on the hip-sled machine during morning weights once. He then proceeded to lift like 4 times his body weight to show us all that we were being wimps.

      Both are true stories.

    • #31910
      swim5599
      Member

      I would think you would need to look at results from the conf and nat meet. Both great coaches Hauck has probably delivered the goods a little bit better at nats lately. But I would vote for either one of them

    • #31911
      iswimfar
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      He’s built the GAC program from the ground up into a roster that consists of over 80 swimmers. That says a lot about his recruiting skills and the ability to keep swimmers out for the team.

      i beg to differ. the only reason GAC has an 80-swimmer roster is because they have a large enough pool. but having a bunch of people in the water who can’t even make a duel-meet lineup doesn’t really say a whole lot about coaching ability. the amount of swimmers one has certainly matters, but only to a point, really.

    • #31912
      sharkboy
      Member

      I agree with iswimfar, numbers of swimmers isn’t a fair way to measure coaching ability. Carlson’s ability to improve his swimmers (hanson, sutor, etc.) is a fairer way to quantify his coaching skill.

    • #31913
      grammar
      Member

      although i think sharkboy meant “qualify” and not “quantify” this post is ridiculous. We all know that the best coach in Minnesota is none other than John Foss.

      He has three 14 year old girls under :55 in the 100 1-arm backstroke. how can anyone compete with that?

    • #31914
      Keith
      Member

      Shouldn’t the criteria for all time coach be based on amount of jowl?

      We’re talking about swimming, not girls splashing in the water. So John Foss, smosh.

      Who says “fairer”? I think “more gooder” would be appropriate.

    • #31915

      Both are excellent coaches, there’s no doubt about that. What I think it boils down to is the assistant coaching talent that these guys surround themselves with. Part of being a great leader is surrounding yourself with talented people. I don’t know a lot about the St. Olaf assistant coaches, but Bob Hauck was a great assistant back in the 90’s. However, if you look at the people Carlson has had, including the current assistant to the head coach, Andy Hagen, I don’t think there is much doubt he’s doing the right thing surrounding himself with exceptional assistant coaches. 😛

    • #31916

      Yeah, having 30 extra turds who go 1:15 in the breast is not the sign of a good coach I’ll admit, but GAC leaves a lot of swimmers off the roster who would actually score at conference. A lot of teams can’t claim that, maybe Olaf can, I don’t know.

      But the depth of the the GAC team is what has won them the title the last 5 years. When your 13th or 14th best swimmer can get you a top 8 and a couple top 16s, that is key.

      Look at the SJU team from ’96. They had Zelen, Pat Underhill, Phil Steger, Mark Schmitz, Ryan McGovern, Kris Bowman, Jake Bastien, Carl Stevens (all all-conference swimmers, and most National qualifiers) and broke a ton of MIAC records that year but ended up 3rd at conference because they had no depth. The MIAC conference meet is won with depth. Nationals is won by Kenyon.

      My point with Jon is that he turned a team with like 10 guys and some football players jumping off the diving board into a dominant MIAC team. All while Olaf was kicking the crap out of people at the time.

      Recruiting is probably the most important thing for a head coach. And outside of the assitant to the head coach Andy Hagen, Jon I think is the best at it.

      Top 10 coaches ranking MIAC in the ESPN Era:

      1. Jon Carlson GAC
      2. Andy Hagen (Jon’s assistant to the head coach)
      3. Dave Hauck Olaf
      4. Andy Clark Carleton
      5. Pat Haws SJU
      6. Tom Hodgson St. Thomas
      7. Bob Hauck (Dave’s assistant to the head coach)
      8. Bob Pearson Mac
      9. Bill Saxton SJU
      10. Eric Lindquist St. Mary’s

    • #31917

      You claim that Carlson is the best recruiter in the MIAC. What are your thoughts on Carlson only able to recuit within MN? His roster hardly ever has more then 1 or 2 swimmers not from MN. Olaf is able to pull their amazing swimmers from elsewhere in the nation.

      I have also heard from one of my friends that Carlson often has his office workers do a lot of the brunt work for his recruiting. Will Sutor personally made many recruiting calls his senior year.

      However, taking these things into consideration, I will still back anyone up who says Carlson is the best recruiter in the MIAC. He was able to pull a Class AA State Champion from MN in Scott Hagemeyer. Not too many other DIII coaches can claim that. Carlson is also able to draw in a couple MN All-State swimmers every year, which does show his strengths as a recruiter.

    • #31918

      Nearly all top sports programs do a great job of recruiting from home. Look at Ohio State, Texas, and pretty much all of the Florida college football teams. I think recruiting the best athletes within driving distance is the key to recruiting… especially in D-III when guys are paying $25-$30K for the privilege of waking up at 6am 5 days a week to swim and lift weights while earning a degree.

      Hauck is a great example of this too. His unbelievable teams of the late 80s were anchored by recruits who probably biked to their recruiting visits… His son of course, and Casson.

      As for swimmers making recruiting calls. I think that is a great method. Who better to sell a program than the swimmers currently in it? I’d think most coaches use this technique.

      Bottom line: Get the fastest kids willing to pay to swim for you rather than go D-I and get their education paid for. Once you get them, get a lot of really good kids who didn’t quite make the D-I or D-II cut.

      That is no easy task for any coach… except for assistant to the head coach Andy Hagen. He is a recruits dream.

    • #31919
      trout3
      Member

      Chapel Partner wrote:

      [Bottom line: Get the fastest kids willing to pay to swim for you rather than go D-I and get their education paid for. Once you get them, get a lot of really good kids who didn’t quite make the D-I or D-II cut.]

      Correction….. DIII cuts are faster than DII

    • #31920

      @trout3 wrote:

      Chapel Partner wrote:

      [Bottom line: Get the fastest kids willing to pay to swim for you rather than go D-I and get their education paid for. Once you get them, get a lot of really good kids who didn’t quite make the D-I or D-II cut.]

      Correction….. DIII cuts are faster than DII

      DIII cuts may be a little faster for men, but not so for the women. While most of the posters on this site are men, half (if not more) of a coaches recruiting is on the women’s side. To be considered a great recruiter, I think that you need to be able to pull in both fast guys and fast girls.

    • #31921
      EnThralled
      Member

      I think that although recruiting is an extremely important aspect of being a great coach, establishing a winning reputation is even more important. Olaf dominated the MIAC for 20 some years because they had a reputation as the best team in the MIAC and they were. Now Gustavus is on the rise (with Olaf right on its heels), and so it is much easier to pull in great swimmers. To get good recruits, you need to have a good program, which comes down to making pretty good swimmers into great ones. Will Sutor is an excellent example. Although he was a talented high school swimmer, he improved greatly in college under Carlson and ended up as a national runner-up in the 100 fly. Both Ben Hanson and Connor Ziegler are also excellent examples. They were pretty good high school swimmers who became national caliber under Carlson. Olaf has had many examples of this as well. In terms of the coaches, Hauck has a long history of MIAC domination, while Carlson is currently establishing is own dynasty. Both coaches know what they are doing nd can improve swimmers as well as establish a winning reputation, but to actually pick who is better is irrelevant.

      I would also like to reiterate that the MIAC is full of a lot of great coaches besides Carlson and Hauck. Like Andy Hagen, Carlson’s assistant. I’ve heard that he makes his swimmers push his car to and from practice every day to work on their strength training. That’s no small feat since Hagen drives a Hummer.

    • #31922

      Trout, my point about DII is that even though the times might be slower (or faster for women), and most of the DII programs like Mankato get schooled by DIII teams like GAC and Olaf, they still offer scholarships. That is a huge recruiting tool DIII can’t compete with. That and sluttier chicks.

      But one thing DIII has that DII doesn’t, is the tutelage of assistant to the head coaches like Bob Hauck and Andy Hagen.

      Assistant to the head coach Hagen is rumored to have made his swimmers swim a full 100 with no breath. A few guys made it, but most of the guys passed out, and I think one freshman died. Survival of the fittest.

    • #31923
      RustieGustie
      Member
      backstroker02 wrote:
      You claim that Carlson is the best recruiter in the MIAC. What are your thoughts on Carlson only able to recuit within MN? His roster hardly ever has more then 1 or 2 swimmers not from MN. Olaf is able to pull their amazing swimmers from elsewhere in the nation.

      The fact that Gustavus recruits most of its swimmers from MN while Olaf finds them from out of state is probably more of a reflection of the particular schools rather than the coach’s recruiting. The Gustavus student body is almost 80% in state, while Olaf’s is heavily out of state.

      But to be honest, the main reason the Gusties are so succesful recruting in MN is Asistant to the Head Coach Andy Hagen. Young swimmers in MN grow up idolizing him.

    • #31924

      I feel like an R-tard leaving off Asistant to the Head Coach Andy Hagen. I have edited the subject line. Attempting to determine if Gustavus is succesfull because of Jon Carlson or Andy Hagen is a chicken before egg argument that no one will win.

      Who is responsible for the greatest economic expansion of the US economy between 1999 and 2006? Josiah “Jed” Bartlet or Leo McGarry? It’s hard to decide, but the smart money’s on Leo.

      Signed,
      Andy Hagen’s Biggest Fan

    • #31925
      trout3
      Member

      Trout, my point about DII is that even though the times might be slower (or faster for women), and most of the DII programs like Mankato get schooled by DIII teams like GAC and Olaf, they still offer scholarships. That is a huge recruiting tool DIII can’t compete with

      Chapel Partner: you’ve got to believe that some DIII’s put scholarships under grants… That can be more attractive because if you stop swimming, you keep the money….[code]

    • #31926
      silentp
      Member

      @trout3 wrote:

      Chapel Partner: you’ve got to believe that some DIII’s put scholarships under grants… That can be more attractive because if you stop swimming, you keep the money….

      If they do, the current study out there (not sure if it has been completed or not) will find out. They are researching into whether athletes get more money from schools than non-athletes, with similar credentials. I know K does not, although it would have been helpful and while you take the negative approach, i actually don’t believe many schools have this. Also, i believe most grants are pretty publicly viewable, so if this were being done, people would know about it, and someone would say something. However, some schools will let students in because they are certain level athletes, that normally might not make it based purely on academic performances. Others do not, like K again for swimming at least, because we wanted to a few times and failed. I hope our Bball and Fball teams don’t, because they shouldn’t be as pathetic as they are if they are getting guys in.[code]

      If they do, the current study out there (not sure if it has been completed or not) will find out. They are researching into whether athletes get more money from schools than non-athletes, with similar credentials. I know K does not, although it would have been helpful and while you take the negative approach, i actually don’t believe many schools have this. Also, i believe most grants are pretty publicly viewable, so if this were being done, people would know about it, and someone would say something. However, some schools will let students in because they are certain level athletes, that normally might not make it based purely on academic performances. Others do not, like K again for swimming at least, because we wanted to a few times and failed. I hope our Bball and Fball teams don’t, because they shouldn’t be as pathetic as they are if they are getting guys in.

    • #31927
      trout3
      Member

      My intent was not to suggest that it’s a “get around” ploy…. My experience with swimmers, in general, is that they are focused, disciplined and tend to be high academic achievers…. So, what they get usually fits appropriate guidelines…. If there was a choice in attending an institution that offered in the form of grant vs. atheletic scholarship, I think it’s an easy decision….

      In addition, I don’t really see where DII times are faster than DIII. The only cut times faster in DII women’s is 100 br B, 200 br B and 100 fly A…. All relays are slower than DIII A cut with no B cut times.. In a nutshell, I don’t see a competitive correlation between scholarship vs non scholarship schools….. It all boils down to quantity of swimmers…. There are about 75 DII schools that sponsor womens swimming. Compare that to 55 that sponsor mens… Stands to reason that a few DII women’s times can be faster, yet no men’s times faster…. it’s a numbers game….

    • #31928
      iswimfar
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      1. Jon Carlson GAC
      2. Andy Hagen (Jon’s assistant to the head coach)
      3. Dave Hauck Olaf
      4. Andy Clark Carleton
      5. Pat Haws SJU
      6. Tom Hodgson St. Thomas
      7. Bob Hauck (Dave’s assistant to the head coach)

      Andy hagen might be a great coach, but he is just an assistant coach, so i don’t believe he can be judged as better than Dave Hauck. Dave is practically a legend. Not only is he one of the winningest coaches in dIII swimming, but also a great coach in other sports such as football and softball. i think this goes to show his versitility in athletics as well as his great ability to motivate his athletes.
      Also, Bob Hauck is NOT an assistant coach. He and Dave are co-head coaches at Olaf, so I don’t see how he could possibly be ranked lower than Andy Hagen and especially the SJU and St. Thomas coaches.

    • #31929
      silentp
      Member

      @iswimfar wrote:

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      1. Jon Carlson GAC
      2. Andy Hagen (Jon’s assistant to the head coach)
      3. Dave Hauck Olaf
      4. Andy Clark Carleton
      5. Pat Haws SJU
      6. Tom Hodgson St. Thomas
      7. Bob Hauck (Dave’s assistant to the head coach)

      Andy hagen might be a great coach, but he is just an assistant coach, so i don’t believe he can be judged as better than Dave Hauck. Dave is practically a legend. Not only is he one of the winningest coaches in dIII swimming, but also a great coach in other sports such as football and softball. i think this goes to show his versitility in athletics as well as his great ability to motivate his athletes.
      Also, Bob Hauck is NOT an assistant coach. He and Dave are co-head coaches at Olaf, so I don’t see how he could possibly be ranked lower than Andy Hagen and especially the SJU and St. Thomas coaches.

      I think he was joking…

    • #31930
      middie07
      Member

      Is it true Andy Hagen taught John Foss everything he knows?

    • #31931

      Andy Hagen isn’t only a swimming legand, he is also an outdoor extraordinaire:

      This one time, Andy Hagen was climbing Everest when a huge blizzard set in. He took refuge in a cliff cave, but his sherpa got really sick. The sherpa fell into a state of acute hypothermia, so Hagen gave the sherpa all of the clothes on his back. But Hagen isnt a quitter so he straped the sherpa to his back and finished climbing Everest, buck naked with only his beard to keep him warm, in the middle of the blizzard. This was the fastest ascent of Everest ever, Hagen did it is just under 12 hours.

      Another Andy Hagen fact:
      When Hagen jumps in the water he doesn’t get wet, the water gets Hagened.

    • #31932
      2000swimmer
      Member

      So its been a while since I have been here. Bt this topic really caught my attention. What about rating all the D-III in the midwest…including Iowa and Wisconsin. There are some great coaches in WI, and IA.

      When you throw them into the mix..I really feel it changes things.
      Of course Ive been out a while and have had the opportunity to observe these other coaches…so im a bit biased. And also…I base my rankings on how a coach actually coaches, and interacts with the athletes. Not just good recruiting.

      1. Andy Clark
      2. Lance Huber (Luther)
      3. Erin Hurley (Grinnell)
      4. Jon Carlson
      5. Bob Hauk
      6. Rich Pein (LaCrosse)
      7. Greg Gearhart ( Carthage)
      8. Pat Haws

      I know thats only 8, but I have to go to practice. Now this is just my observation, and I know many of you have never been up against these other coaches….but take my word…if Luther or Grinnell builds a new facility…look out D-III!

    • #31933
      silentp
      Member

      @2000swimmer wrote:

      ….but take my word…if Luther or Grinnell builds a new facility…look out D-III!

      Since I was recruited by Grinnell, i can say with confidence than Grinnell’s pool is much nicer than say Denison’s, St. Olaf’s, or Kalamazoo’s, who have all managed to have successful programs. Erin Hurley is a great coach though, and very nice, but i am not sure she can be put up there above someone like Coach Carlson or Hauck at this point. I don’t know enough about the others to comment.

      Here is Grinnell’s pool:
      http://www.grinnell.edu/athletics/facilities/obermiller/

    • #31934

      @2000swimmer wrote:

      ….but take my word…if Luther or Grinnell builds a new facility…look out D-III!

      Facilites can help a swim team, but they do not make a team. There are plenty of good teams that are at the top that have lesser facilities as teams that are, at best, middle of the pack. Good coaching can over come a lot. An example can be Notre Dame, Bob Davie could not win there and he said one of the reasons was that their facilities, locker rooms and practice facilites were out of date and it hurt the recruiting. Willinham came in and got them to a major bowl and Weis has taken over and they are again in a BCS bowl. Some people said the same thing about Rutgers, that they could never win. Most of the time winning and achievement builds facilites and not the other way around.

    • #31935
      2000swimmer
      Member

      I am not saying that facilities do make a team….I am saying that those coaches are amazing with the facilities they have. I still stand by my rankings…minus facility issues.

    • #31936
      swim5599
      Member

      I think Denison is a great example of a team that does amazing things based on their coaching. If they built what Kenyon had, I would say look out and that is scary considering what they have already done.

      ANother great coach in the midwest is AL Boelk at Stevens point.
      Jon Lederhouse at Wheaton.

    • #31937
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Who is responsible for the greatest economic expansion of the US economy between 1999 and 2006?

      That is such an easy one. The only thing that kept the economy afloat in that time period was the refinancing boom. In the late 90’s a bill was passed that eliminated the capital gains tax on the gains from your personal residense. Thus taking equity out of your home became more viable becuase people would not be faced with the prospect of paying a tax bill in the future for equity that they had already spent.

      This monumental change was proposed by and signed into law by….

      Bill Clinton.

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