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October 10, 2006 at 9:56 pm #12000KenalumMember
Over the last two weeks I have enjoyed participating in this DIII discussion forum, and reading all of these threads. I am a Kenyon alum but I have to humbly say that I have noticed the MIAC forum has been buzzing with posts more than anything…well, except for the Michigan private college forum. But being an old guy from the early 90s and looking back at the MIAC, I have my own opinions, but I was curious what alums and current swimmers from the MIAC think about the greatest MIAC swimmers of all time: I have to admit that Olaf dominates my past impressions along with one special Johnnie; however, I have seen some Gusties that have been deserving as of late for recognition.
Here are my thoughts—
For the Oles I definitely have to throw Bob Hauck out there as my number one memory. Secondly, although I can’t remember his name, the distance miler that won the mile back in the 90s–he was insane!
Lastly, for the Oles, I have to give Gabe (I only remember his first name, and I may be wrong even with that!), the diver from Olaf some props. I recall watching him whoop up on the competition at the Miami of Ohio nationals in 2002. And of course there is the current Westby, whom I see big things from in the future. Wait, we have already seen huge things from him. Hopefully his shoulder turns out alright.
For the Johnnies, need I say more than Matt Zelen? Aside from his national championships, the guy qualified for the olympic trials in the 50m free. Apart from that, Vestrum and Arnold were great in MIAC competition, but calm at Nationals.
As for Carleton, if this is purely for the Men (so Marsmen isn’t included), Brown was quite the caliber guy, but never put up what I anticipate to see from the current IMer from there. I see him surpassing all the men from that program in the next three years.
Last, for Gustavus, they seem to be a team that has had a chip on their shoulder. I posted in another forum about Sutor getting All-American in five events his senior year and I was there at Nationals to see it, but I don’t recall much of anything from Gustavus besides that year. I checked some results and I saw that this dude, Sutor, didn’t even make it to Natties his freshman year besides a relay and almost took out Duda his senior year in the 100 fly, and the Gusties improved every year he was there. I see tons of posts about Hagemeyer and Amundson and Hanson, but I have yet to see them do huge things at Natties like that guy did when he was a senior. I still can’t put those current guys in the same category as Sutor and what he seemed to do for Gustavus at Natties, but I’m also not ready to put him in the same class as the aforementioned three Oles that dominated in the 90s.
K- I threw it out there—-let the arguing begin!
October 10, 2006 at 10:26 pm #30952ProcrastinatorMember
Well, the top three guys of all time have to be Matt Zelen, Robert Hauck, and Kevin Casson. All three of these guys still hold three individual miac records. They were all national champions as well. I would have to say that the most premiere MIAC swimmer of all time is Kevin Casson. I bleieve he was a national champion more than the other two. But all three of those guys are impressive.
October 11, 2006 at 2:33 am #30953lane 6erMember
does anyone know where to find MIAC championships results from long ago, like the 70’s? I’ve been trying to find them, but with no luck.
October 11, 2006 at 2:41 am #30954backstroker02Member
There are several ways one could use to determine the greatest swimmer in the MIAC.
1) Who scored the most points at the conference meets throughout their 4 years.
2) Who held the most MIAC records or championships throughout their career.
3) Who scored the most points at Nationals throughout their career.
4) Who had the most National championships.
5) Whos name is most recognized on a national level (though I don’t know it there is an objective way to determine this one).
All of these would be interesting things to consider. Unfortunantely, I am not sure if the results from most past conferences are availible to look at online. If pressed, I think I would have to say that Hauck would be my vote for greatest MIAC swimmer of all time. He holds 3 MIAC records (200 & 400 IM and 200 back). I would guess though that he had more while he was swimming. Cassen still holds 4 MIAC records (200, 500, 1000, 1650), more then anyone else, but the 1000 isn’t an event at conference or national. Zelen also has three (50 & 100 free & 100 fly). I also recall hearing that Hauck placed well at D1 nationals (I think this was when anyone was allowed to compete if they had the cuts). However, I might be wrong about that.
October 11, 2006 at 6:43 am #30955KenalumMember
How about we put supposed MIAC records aside—-relays or individual. For Kenyon I know we always looked upon our leader as the individual who made the biggest difference and made the largest contribution to our team at the team at the time. I don’t mean to belittle Kasson or Hauck or Zelen by any means, for sure they were the MIAC men of their day, but I want to know what they attributed towards their team. I recall Hauck and Kassoon being quite the contributers on either the 4 or 8 Free Relay teams, but not nearly the help on the 2 Free Relay that Zelen was—what I’m getting at is: who has made the biggest impact on their team in the MIAC in terms of establishing their team’s longevity? I would love to say Zelen, but I hesitate under Bill from St. Johns and what he has been up to in the last 7 years. I would love to say Bob Hauck, even though their diving program has no doubt been an utter success, but lets face it, Nelson Westby was a DI find in a DIII index. I still maintain Carlson at Gustavus has had the winning formula lately with Hagemeyer, Amundson, and Hanson, and notibly Sutor in the past two years with getting them on the map. Any other thoughts or opinions?
October 11, 2006 at 2:32 pm #30956swmwl1Member
Having had the opportunity to coach Kevin Casson as a Masters swimmer I can tell you that he is still a stud. He is also still very dedicated to the St. Olaf program. It would be very hard to argue who was better, or more valuable to St. Olaf between Casson and Hauck. Both of them won events with times that would still win occaisonally today and both broke multiple records. hauck winning the 400 IM 4 years in a row is pretty amazing though. The other MIAC swimmer who deserves consideration would be Greg Sampson, who I swam against in HS. Sampson swam for Carleton and won 5 titles between the 2 breaststroke events.
Also, remember that Casson and Hauck did not have the short relays when they swam, so those really can’t be used to compare to Zelen’s contribution.
October 11, 2006 at 2:33 pm #30957sharkboyMember
I’m confused. Are we trying to determine the best swimmer or the most influential swimmer? I think they can be two very different things.
October 11, 2006 at 8:40 pm #30958ProcrastinatorMember
I think we can only look at the speed of a swimmer like their times, records, and wins to determine the greatest Miac swimmer of all time. Determining the most influential swimmer is way to objective.
October 11, 2006 at 9:07 pm #30959swim5599Member
In my mind there is no question it’s Bob Hauck. Absolute animal. 3:55 in the 400 IM enough said
October 11, 2006 at 9:45 pm #30960silentpMember
I tried to use the Swimming Power Points to decide and it gave Hauch a slight edge in their respective best event sand casson an even slighter edge in their respective 2nd best events. So that was no help, but I’ll say Hauch since the record isn’t that much faster today in the IM or 2back.
November 7, 2006 at 7:09 pm #30961Mac of the MIACMember
Hauck, Casson, and Zellen are my top 3. But it’s hard to compare eras.
Matt Zelen was the most dominant MIAC swimmer I have seen. However, he was beat in the 50 of the MIAC championships by Kevin O’Laughlin.
From dual meets to the MIAC’s, I never saw Justin Bradley get beat. Plus he had 2 MIAC records when he left school.
Max Harper was very dominant at nationals.
November 15, 2006 at 6:36 pm #30962KeithMember
The best brother combination in the MIAC:
Kramer Bros. distance duo
Palmer Brothers; covering distance and breasts
O’Laughlin Bros. Sprinters
Brase Bros. not only twins but swimmers as well
I’m sure I’m missing most. Who’s it going to be?
I cast my vote for the Brase Bros. They had their own cheer for crying out loud.
November 15, 2006 at 6:46 pm #30963E-mans RevengeMember
I’ll give them the nod, not because they swam well, but because they did the most naked pull-ups in the St. John’s locker room, thanks in part to genetically freaky lats.
As for best of all time, I’m going to vote for Casson. I think the guy won the mile 3 years in a row, and the 500 once, for 4 overall individual national championships. Hauck was amazing, only 3 people have ever swum a faster 400IM in D3, but I think overall Casson had the best individual career.
Zelen has the best nude 100 fly ever recorded (St. John’s Invite 1999), which he parlayed into a slew of national televsion and radio coverage. I also heard that he met Yasmine Bleeth on the set of the Tonight Show, and they have a child together. That may be hearsay, but it sounds plausible to me.
November 15, 2006 at 7:57 pm #30964CRUNCHYSOCKMember
I can’t believe there is a debate about this. The best MIAC swimmer of all time is clearly Andy Hagen. Not so much for his performance, which was thoroughly adequate, but for the intangibles he brought to the table. I mean, to squeeze that dome into a regulation swim cap!?!? Truly remarkable.
But intangibles and tunacans aside, isn’t Hauck the best by far? That 400 IM record was set the year I was born, and I was swimming in the meet in which it was broken. That’s impressive. Wasn’t that one of the best times in the country that year, irregardless of division?
November 15, 2006 at 8:52 pm #30965E-mans RevengeMember
…isn’t Hauck the best by far? That 400 IM record was set the year I was born, and I was swimming in the meet in which it was broken. That’s impressive. Wasn’t that one of the best times in the country that year, irregardless of division?
No doubt, it was impressive. I was wrong about how many events Hauck won at nats, he has 7 overall national titles, in 4 different events (100BK, 200BK, 200IM, and 400IM). There are only 2 guys with more individual championships in all of D3, and 5 others tied with Hauck at 7. With all of that in mind, I take back my argument about Casson. Hauck is clearly the best MIAC swimmer ever. I would say he uber-pwned the MIAC.
November 16, 2006 at 10:14 pm #30966VolumeMember
That’s impressive. Wasn’t that one of the best times in the country that year, irregardless of division?
I think you tried to say regardless, not irregardless. Although irregardless is used in everyday conversation it is not correct to say (quite like anyways, it is anyway). Regardless of division.
November 16, 2006 at 10:40 pm #30967KeithMember
Pretty sure he meant irregardless (sic) being an English major and all. This is a swimming forum not a grammar and spelling forum.
“What are you, a lawyer?” -Max Fischer
Best swimmer of all time, Reid Foster. How many hike schoolers do you know who swim D3 and go do college? That’s what I thought. Plus, he was the smartest person he knew at the time.
November 16, 2006 at 11:17 pm #30968CRUNCHYSOCKMember
Keith (whoever you are) is correct, Volume doesn’t no who I is. Thanks though, I do have some grammar to catch up on.
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