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January 20, 2008 at 9:00 pm #12985wingnutMember
Any predictions going into this meet? Both teams are coming off of extensive training over the past couple of weeks, and it will be interesting to see who comes out on top.
January 21, 2008 at 3:18 am #43352weedwacker2000Member
Yes, the intense rivalry continues, with what looks like another exciting dual meet. Both men and women’s meet should be quite close. I’ve looked over the times going into this meet. I predict that the Westminster men will prevail on Tuesday night, but I’m going to stick my neck out a bit and predict the GCC women will pull off an upset. I don’t believe that they’ve won against Westminster since the 90’s. Also – there’s a good chance that Tim could set a pool record in the 50.
January 21, 2008 at 5:53 pm #43353
This, once again, should be a very competitive meet. I’ll be curious to see what both coaches do with their lineups to try to get the edge. It is interesting that, for once, backstroke seems to be GCC’s event right now. Breastroke and distance should go to Westminster, the fly events should be closely contested, and the sprint free’s should go to GCC. Both teams always shine during this meet-I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of these guys go their top times of the year tomorrow night.
For the first time in a while, the women’s meet should be highly competitive. GCC has a shot-once again, they will have to bring their A game and step up big time. I’m definitely upset that I can’t make it-I will be anxiously awaiting the results!
January 23, 2008 at 1:23 am #43354BreakingTheSurfaceMember
Westminster 152 — Grove City 102
Westminster 164– Grove City 116
January 23, 2008 at 4:34 am #43355
January 23, 2008 at 3:18 pm #43356
Well I know I didn’t see this meet turning out this way, looking at the top times yesterday afternoon I thought this meet would be really close and come down to the end. But a sweep of the backstroke and GCC only winning the 50 is a HUGE set back going into PAC’s. Westmister didn’t really have any crazy times except for Gerthoffer in the 200 which was a hell of a in season swim. This certainly amps up my excitment for PACs don’t know what it does for you GCC guys though…
January 24, 2008 at 5:34 pm #43357wingnutMember
I don’t think anyone saw the meet turning out the way that it did. Grove City was apparently off, looking at the top times of the G.C. men, and even the results from 3 days earlier when they swam W&J. Westminster had some great swims, but it was also apparent that they were tired as well in some events. Grove City just seemed to be more tired. It will be interesting to see what happens at PACs when both teams are rested and tapered. I don’t think anyone can call it yet, but it’s going to be very close and exciting to see who comes out on top. Most of the relays will be very close, Grove City should take the backstrokes and sprints (50 and 100 at least), but Westminster is a powerhouse in the distance and breastroke events. I think it will come down to whoever does better in the IM’s and butterfly’s. I personally can’t wait to watch the action.
January 26, 2008 at 2:17 pm #43358
HAHA you either get deafening silence or excuses after GCC drops the ball, its pretty funny
January 27, 2008 at 1:55 am #43359
I’d be willing to go out on a limb and say that GCC won’t, “Roll over and die” when it comes time for PACs. Needless to say, they got it handed to them on Tuesday, and no one will deny that. But when you look at what they did Saturday against W and J, and then what they did on Tuesday against WC, it’s obvious that GCC was off. No one posted fast times-everyone was pretty slow across the board. I feel like, for the first time in a while, GCC is better built for the conference meet than they are for a dual meet. We’ll just have to wait 3 weeks or so to see how it plays out. I think everyone would admit though, on this thread atleast, that we thought the meet would be a lot closer than that. But in the meantime, congrats to WC for a great meet-they swam pretty well. Gerthoffer and Gutmann specifically stood out to me, as well as Gannon having a few nice swims. I will be anxious to see what Gerthoffer ends up going at the end of the year-he’s having a great season.
January 30, 2008 at 8:04 pm #43360elliswimayMember
I agree with everything above. And though the results were not pretty, I don’t think Grove City “rolled over and died” either. Anyone watching that meet could see the men were swimming hard, it just wasn’t quite happening. We can’t know the differences in how the teams had been training up until then.
Also, I think it’s interesting that when looking at the PAC top times, Westminster’s top times are almost entirely from the Wooster Invite (which they taper and shave for) or the GCC meet (where they certainly seemed at least a little rested) whereas the Grove City swimmers top times come from various meets throughout the season. Yeah, there are quite a few from Longnecker, but there are also ones from the CMU meet, W&J, Bethany, and the quad meet in November. I think we have a better idea of what Westminster will swim tapered than Grove City. And I can’t wait to see how fast they’re going to be!
That meet didn’t change at all how I feel about GCC’s chances going into PACs. I’d rather work hard and swim tired all season then have a great taper at the end. Winning dual meets is nice, but it’s not the championship.
January 31, 2008 at 7:01 pm #43361OutsideSmoker27Member
I think we have a better idea of what Westminster will swim tapered than Grove City. And I can’t wait to see how fast they’re going to be!
I think I’m going to go with that opinion as well. It’s an old, familiar theme: Titans are starting into their taper, get really pumped for the meet, and win with fast times; Wolverines needs to show up with an A+ game to stand a good chance, doesn’t show up as such, and get beaten. Lest I be accused of sugar-coating things in GCC’s favor, I agree this was a trouncing, comparable to the first years that I was swimming (2000-2002ish) — the only memories I have of which can all be described with words like “dark” and “gloomy” and even “ouch.” I believe scoring out the exhibition would have resulted in a 100+ point margin for Westminster. Rob Klamut does a fine job coaching his athletes, no question.
The case for the dual meet being conceded, I’m not at all ready to cashier Grove City when it comes to PACs. I am highly skeptical of a repeat thrashing in the backs and flys (in fact, I think Grove City should outscore Westminster in at least 3 of those 4 events) and of a repeat loss in either the 200 medley or 400 free relay. The sweeps of the breast and distance events may well be repeated — although I have my doubts about how completely — but the points advantage won’t be as decisive. Plus, W&J et al have a few key players who can run some interference, and they’re more likely to show up in events where Westminster is stronger, say the 200 and 500 free or the breaststroke, and less likely in Grove City’s key events like the back. Also, never forget diving (I’m sure, given how this conversation has gone in the past, no one has).
Dave Fritz is a pretty darn good coach too, and as elliswimay noted, we haven’t seen what Grove City can bring with even a minor taper this year, let alone the full one they’re going to have come Valentine’s Day. I’ll just keep holding my breath in anticipation…….kind of like I’ve been doing all season.
January 31, 2008 at 8:20 pm #43362
A couple things about the Wooster Invite and the GCC dual.
Westminster only rests for the Wooster Invite its not a full taper, I know you could say I’m splitting hairs but there is a big difference in training. And Klamut never rests his swimmers before a dual meet, ever. Even when swimming GCC, his philosophy is basically “I don’t care if we go 0-10 as long as we win PAC’s”. So to say that they were rested is wrong, other than the fact that a week and a half before they were still in Florida getting there buts kicked. Are they at the beginning of taper? Yes. How much of a difference will it make? Not much, they have only dropped off a couple of hundred yards at the time of this meet from when they peaked, and they problably still did a 2000 yard CV set the day before the meet. So I don’t think that played that big of a difference.
I’m not saying PAC’s won’t be close, but I am now more confident in leaning towards WC than I was 3 months ago, the meet is no slam dunk that is for sure…
February 1, 2008 at 2:46 pm #43363
Yeah, I don’t think WC was rested for the Grove City meet. . . they just always swim fast then. I think the reason that they swim fast during that time is that their body has had time to adjust back to normal after getting back from Florida, wheras GCC pounds doubles through the day before W and J.
I also know that WC doesn’t fully taper for the Wooster Invite-it’s always been pretty clear since they improve a bit during PAC’s. I would guess they do about a 3 day rest, and they wear their fast skins and their caps, which definitely produces some pretty nice results. No one would doubt that those times are a significant decrease from their previous times of the season.
So my question is this: If the meet would have been held in November (before WC’s taper meet), who wins it? For the sake of argument, we’ll say it was at WC so there was no diving-just the swimming events.
Also, just for fun, here are the results from the 2003-2004 meet four years ago: http://www2.gcc.edu/sports/M-Swimming1/0304%20files/0304westminster.htm
It is great so see how far the conference has come in such a short time. This is also the meet, if I recall correctly, that OutsideSmoker got his name. . .
February 2, 2008 at 9:08 pm #43364OutsideSmoker27Member
other than the fact that a week and a half before they were still in Florida getting there buts kicked.
I think the reason that they swim fast during that time is that their body has had time to adjust back to normal after getting back from Florida, wheras GCC pounds doubles through the day before W and J.
Those are much better ways of saying what I was trying to say than what I actually said. It still seems like it tends to happen this way most years, though.
This is also the meet, if I recall correctly, that OutsideSmoker got his name. . .
Close enough. It was the 2nd installment……….but among those who remember these things, most seem to remember Ryan Trunk’s reaction at that meet better than Chris Williams’ at Frostburg the weekend before.
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