Gary Hall Jr.

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    • #12779

      Agreed. Look at Gary Hall jr. He’s pretty off in season and he’d be the first to admit it. Its totally swimmer dependent. There are some swimmers whose bodies can tolerate the day in, day out grind better than others.

    • #40226
      swim5599
      Member

      Hall is not a good example, because his off in season swims are probably not from being really broken down. But there are plenty of examples of great swimmers that really do not swim great in the middle of the year. I use Wes Bubb as an example. Very rarely do you see him even break 5 minutes in the 500 in season and then he bangs out 4:33 when he rests.

    • #40227

      How is Hall not a good example? Just because he doesn’t slog out the yards in the pool does not mean that he doesn’t get aerobic conditioning (spinning and running with some cycling and kickboxing). Anaerobic swimming and heavy lifting would definitely break a person’s body down, especially a big guy like Gary.
      Not everyone needs to put in 15k a day to get broken down. High intensity lactate sets and anaerobic work with breath control, Mike Bottom’s in-water philosophy, will do a lot to break a person’s body down. The upside of this type of training is that there is much less of a breakdown in stroke, which is ideal, particularly for sprinters.

    • #40228
      swim5599
      Member

      I am well aware of how hard the guys train with Bottom. Hall is a totally different story.

    • #40229
      H2allpurpose
      Member

      screeetch,

      c’mon….don’t believe everything you see on a DVD…its pretty well known that GHJr, as talented as he is and as much as he’s done to continue the rich tradition of sprinters in the US has never been known for his work ethic and its pretty safe to say that with a more consistant and stricter training regiment(like that of gary hall, sr.) he would have been nasty….

    • #40230
      H2allpurpose
      Member

      i just saw the typos, don’t let that get in the way of the post here as I realize that most people on this forum are a bit sharper than most, myself included..

    • #40231
      Colbybr
      Member

      I have noticed that this is the common perception of Gary Hall Jr. I myself have subscribed to the opinion. However, unless you are someone that is in the presence of Gary Hall Jr on a daily basis, I think its pretty impossible to tell how hard he is training. So really there are probably a handful of people who might be able to say with some certainty that Gary does or does not train hard. Everyone else is just speculating

    • #40232
      The Treat
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      I have noticed that this is the common perception of Gary Hall Jr. I myself have subscribed to the opinion. However, unless you are someone that is in the presence of Gary Hall Jr on a daily basis, I think its pretty impossible to tell how hard he is training. So really there are probably a handful of people who might be able to say with some certainty that Gary does or does not train hard. Everyone else is just speculating

      i had a friend who went to navy. one year, they were supposed to train w/ the club gary hall jr was on. he showed up one of the days out of an entire training trip, did a short warm up, worked on some starts, did a couple 50 free sprints and left. 30-45 min workout max. this isnt a proof that the guy was a slacker, but combine this with what everyone in swimming says about the guy… sure he could be doing other stuff to work out when he isnt at practice, but it is my personal opinion that the guy is a slacker, a slacker with an insane amount of talent.

    • #40233

      First of all, I don’t believe everything I see on DVD. I’ve also heard anecdotes from Sabir about days when Gary wouldn’t do very much at practice. I have also heard that 2 years out from any Olympics he puts in the time along with everyone else there.
      Could he work harder? Probably, but to be honest who couldn’t? There are very few people (Vendt, Phelps, PVK) that put the hammer down day in day out.
      Last thing I’m going to say about it is this: Gary would not still be an Olympic contender at 33 if he did not work…HARD. We all know that swimmers’ careers are lasting longer, but 33 is OLD, even for sprinters. To keep in the kind of shape necessary to go 21s LCM, you need to be working pretty damn hard.

    • #40234
      H2allpurpose
      Member

      screeech,

      no one doubts that when gary decideds to work hard he does it, but no one that has coached GHjr. would agree to the fact that gary did/does things to full potenial. Who cares, its his life…but, don’t bull $hit this group here and try to play devils advocate.
      As per his age comment, ever look at the average age of professional sports players? Ah, swimming is completely different because most of the swimming world didn’t have the opportunity to swim much past college. Its just not conducive in our day in age…YET!
      The male peak for core strength is upper 20s and lower 30s, so it makes more sense that your speed would improve with age “IF” you stuck with it and to a certain point.

    • #40235
      Colbybr
      Member

      H2, would you show the relevant quote from Mike Bottom where he states that he doesn’t believe Gary Hall Jr has lived up to his potential?

    • #40236
      swim5599
      Member

      Whether Mike Bottom has said that or not I don’t know. But in my opinion he hasn’t. Not only that but he is not exactly the greatest guy in swimming either. Has he been great? Absolutely. But I will look back and always wonder just how much better he could have been.

    • #40237
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Not only that but he is not exactly the greatest guy in swimming either. Has he been great?

      Not sure how you conclude that, but I when think of people who are not “great” I think of those who label and criticize others from second hand knowledge.

    • #40238
      swim5599
      Member

      Well let me just use the story about him crying up a storm about not being on the 400 free relay in Athens and then disappearing for a few days. Now that is a great teammate.

    • #40239
      swim5599
      Member

      I am sure that this topic will get closed if I don’t apologize for the last one. So I apologize.

    • #40240

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Well let me just use the story about him crying up a storm about not being on the 400 free relay in Athens and then disappearing for a few days. Now that is a great teammate.

      Hehe. I don’t think you need to apologize, I doubt he reads this, and that wasn’t all *that* inflammatory. He should have been on that relay, he would have dropped a 47 high at night. And I mean, he should have been on that relay in place of Michael Phelps.

      Not that that really has anything to do with this discussion, as I think he should have kept his mouth shut about the decision.

    • #40241
      swim5599
      Member

      47 High split would have still gotten them a pretty decent size ass kicking by the South Africans.

    • #40242
      Chris Knight
      Member

      @RhymeAndReason wrote:

      And I mean, he should have been on that relay in place of Michael Phelps.

      Phelps had been faster at spring nationals that year than Gary was at Trials. You can argue that a time from spring nationals shouldn’t carry as much weight as one from Trials, but the fact of the matter is that Trials are a guideline for who makes the team, not who swims on relays. The coaches have the call and they can enter who they want. There wasn’t any controversy when Jenny Thompson anchored the 800 FR in Sydney or when Natalie led it off in Athens…this story got way too much press because of the personas involved.

      I think the greater question from that relay is why was Crocker on it? He was sick as a dog and I assume that both he and Eddie Reese knew he was unlikely to be 100%.

    • #40243
      Colbybr
      Member

      Maybe just stubborn insistence that Crocker would be fine. Once he dropped his 50.0 they found out that he really just didn’t have it. I’m sure a lot of people can think of great performances where people really stepped up when they weren’t feeling well. Crocker’s 100 just ended up being the other direction.

    • #40244

      You want to talk about a good teammate? Look at Ian Crocker who was swimming like crap and didn’t take himself off the relay…for the good of the team. It was a bonehead move to leave him on it, as evidenced by his 50. lead off. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that would’ve scored higher than 12th at trials.
      Also, what’s wrong with Mike Bottom? He’s an innovator on the level of David Marsh as far as sprinting is concerned, or were all those Cal relay records from a couple years ago also just from talented kids who didn’t work.

    • #40245
      Colbybr
      Member

      Look, I think we’ve all had crappy swims. Crocker’s 100 free on that relay was just that, a crappy swim. I don’t think he was selfish for “keeping himself on”. I know it has been well documented that he was ill at the time but as I recall this came as an explanation after the fact. Its just as possible Crocker looked pretty good in practice, thought he could heart out a 49.0 regardless of how he felt, and Eddie Reese believed him. Then he went out and went 50.0 instead. What I think we had was world class performers all confident in their abilities. Crocker had the confidence that he could perform well enough, Phelps certainly felt as if he was deserving based on his 49.05. And Hall, with his history as a strong relay swimmer, believed he was also deserving and expressed that. Granted none of it came out that well, but this is how I see it.

    • #40246
      JHU84
      Member

      @screeeeeeeeech wrote:

      You want to talk about a good teammate? Look at Ian Crocker who was swimming like crap and didn’t take himself off the relay…for the good of the team. It was a bonehead move to leave him on it, as evidenced by his 50. lead off. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that would’ve scored higher than 12th at trials.
      Also, what’s wrong with Mike Bottom? He’s an innovator on the level of David Marsh as far as sprinting is concerned, or were all those Cal relay records from a couple years ago also just from talented kids who didn’t work.

      before you impugn crocker, remember at that level emotion can carry you along way even if ill. also you don’t know what went on behind the scenes that went into the decision. Crocker is such a stand up guy and so good for swimming. He is not arrogant and engeged in converstion with my 14 yr old at the grand prix meet. He talks to him now at every meet the are at- because he is a nice guy and supports younger swimmers. I don’t know about gary hall jr, I have heard things. Win or lose I want a guy like crocker representing my country and USA swimming.

    • #40247
      Colbybr
      Member

      @JHU84 wrote:

      before you impugn crocker, remember at that level emotion can carry you along way even if ill. also you don’t know what went on behind the scenes that went into the decision. Crocker is such a stand up guy and so good for swimming. He is not arrogant and engeged in converstion with my 14 yr old at the grand prix meet. He talks to him now at every meet the are at- because he is a nice guy and supports younger swimmers. I don’t know about gary hall jr, I have heard things. Win or lose I want a guy like crocker representing my country and USA swimming.

      Amen. Crocker is actually a decently introverted guy, very different from Gary Hall Jr. He never made an excuses and admittedly struggled with depression after those Olympics partly stemming from how disappointed he was in himself. If you want to second guess somebody for that relay, go for Eddie Reese and the Olympic coaching staff. Even then I was totally in agreement with the way they set up the relay before the relay took place, and I think most people were.

    • #40248
      swim5599
      Member

      I am pretty sure no one on here said anything bad about Mike Bottom, That guy is amazing. As for that relay we can always wonder what would have been, but lets say we take Crocker out put Hall in, and lead off with Phelps I am sorry but we still probably lose.

    • #40249

      Yes, we probably still would have lost, but don’t you think we should still put up the BEST/most able 4 guys? Crocker was sick. Very sick. I’m not calling out his guts, clearly he’s got them, but they couldn’t carry him to better than 50. Reese made a terrible decision putting him on that relay. Gary lives for that relay and that spot. He’s a showboat and loves the attention and the race. It was foolish not to put him on it.

    • #40250
      H2allpurpose
      Member

      screeech,

      although your prop. right…hindsight is 20/20

      what was crockers 100 split that olympics?

    • #40251
      swim5599
      Member

      Gary can live for that relay all he wants, but they are still not winning that race. This summer is a different story, but 2004 the stars were aligned for the South Africans AKA University of Arizona.

    • #40252

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Gary can live for that relay all he wants, but they are still not winning that race. This summer is a different story, but 2004 the stars were aligned for the South Africans AKA University of Arizona.

      Dude, we know they wouldn’t have won the relay. But they would have been faster, and they would have taken silver instead of bronze, and that would have been nice.

    • #40253
      Colbybr
      Member

      Plus how much did the slow leadoff cost the rest of the relay. They were all finishing into a wave at that point

    • #40254
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Gary Hall has done more for the sport of swimming than any swimmer in the US, Phelps included (though that won’t be true in the long run). Gary has tremendous respect from his peers becuase they get it. He isn’t trying to show anyone up, he is trying to make the sport exciting. The reason that swimming is only on TV every 4 years is because it everyone accept Gary Hall is boring.

      I agree that Crocker should be given a pass for not opting out of the relay. It was a selfish thing to do, but it is easy to overestimate yourself, especially when you are that good (In fact, I don’t know that you get to be that good without that kind of attitude). Gary should be given the same latitude.

    • #40255
      swim5599
      Member

      And by saying he has done so much for the sport of swimming are we talking about him testing positive for marijuana, and pouting like a 5 year old over not being selected for the relay? ANyway you look at it that is not good for swimming. DonCheadle I think this might be one of the few times I disagree with what you say. No hard feelings.

    • #40256

      @swim5599 wrote:

      And by saying he has done so much for the sport of swimming are we talking about him testing positive for marijuana, and pouting like a 5 year old over not being selected for the relay? ANyway you look at it that is not good for swimming. DonCheadle I think this might be one of the few times I disagree with what you say. No hard feelings.

      Bill Clinton smoked pot and lied about doing an intern, because of that I judge that he did nothing good for this country. Period.

    • #40257
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      And by saying he has done so much for the sport of swimming are we talking about him testing positive for marijuana, and pouting like a 5 year old over not being selected for the relay?

      Tested positive for pot? Who cares. I am quite certain that more than 50% of this message board has smoked pot. If you are under 20 (which is about the age he got caught at) and you smoke pot, big deal. IF you continue into your 20’s you become a loser. And I don’t want to get into a Phelps v. Hall argument but DUI is way more serious than pot.

      Regarding the relay. I think I answered that. You may not like my answer, but I am not sure at this point if you read it?

      @swim5599 wrote:

      No hard feelings.

      Of course not!

    • #40258
      Derek
      Member

      @RhymeAndReason wrote:

      Bill Clinton smoked pot and lied about doing an intern, because of that I judge that he did nothing good for this country. Period.

      Dude, we all know that his actions as president were totally compromised by his smoking pot as a youngster and sexual deviances. I mean, economic policy, no matter how good, won’t work if you smoked pot in college.

    • #40259
      Djinntsai
      Member

      Let’s not give Clinton credit for the economy during his years in office. Give it to Greespan, where it’s due, and give Clinton props for supporting free trade (as every president does) and not messing it up. Maybe because he was busy with other things??? lol

    • #40260
      Low Tide
      Member

      But then you would have an argument for blaming Greenspan for where the economy is right now. He’s taken a lot of heat lately… for his refusal to raise interest rates. Great for the .com yuppies of the time, but not great overall.

    • #40261
      H2allpurpose
      Member

      the economy is so dynamic that not one person or even party can be blamed, clinton was lucky during his term(s)…right time right place, bush has been unlucky with external factors………but how does this fit into this message board?
      Oh yeah, someone used a parrallel b/t clinton and hall jr., unfortunetly they both give a bad name to america, hard to come out and say that it discredits their accomplishments though…

    • #40262
      Derek
      Member

      @H2allpurpose wrote:

      someone used a parrallel b/t clinton and hall jr., unfortunetly they both give a bad name to america

      Really? Gary Gall Jr. and Clinton give America a bad name? Which country or people now hate the U.S. because of the behavior of these two men?

    • #40263
      JHU84
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      And by saying he has done so much for the sport of swimming are we talking about him testing positive for marijuana, and pouting like a 5 year old over not being selected for the relay?

      Tested positive for pot? Who cares. I am quite certain that more than 50% of this message board has smoked pot. If you are under 20 (which is about the age he got caught at) and you smoke pot, big deal. IF you continue into your 20’s you become a loser. And I don’t want to get into a Phelps v. Hall argument but DUI is way more serious than pot.

      Regarding the relay. I think I answered that. You may not like my answer, but I am not sure at this point if you read it?

      @swim5599 wrote:

      No hard feelings.

      Of course not!

      smoking pot is DUI too – see you better quit

    • #40264
      Milhouse
      Member

      @JHU84 wrote:

      smoking pot is DUI too – see you better quit

      Only if Hall was actually DUI while smoking. If not, he was just SWSANPALID, BSNBAGRM (Smoking While Stupid Although Not Putting Anyone’s Life In Danger, But Still Not Being A Good Role Model).

    • #40265
      Low Tide
      Member

      A DUI is definitely worse than smoking pot, in just about every context I can think of (both are breaking the law, but only one endangers others)…

      EXCEPT, public opinion. Alchohol is legal and more acceptable, even when breaking the law while under it’s influence, while pot is illegal. Hence, Clinton took more of a bad rap for smoking pot in college while Bush took less for his DUI. For public image, endorsement dollars and having parents buy their kids a poster to hang on their wall — Smoking pot is worse than a DUI.

    • #40266
      JHU84
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      A DUI is definitely worse than smoking pot, in just about every context I can think of (both are breaking the law, but only one endangers others)…

      EXCEPT, public opinion. Alchohol is legal and more acceptable, even when breaking the law while under it’s influence, while pot is illegal. Hence, Clinton took more of a bad rap for smoking pot in college while Bush took less for his DUI. For public image, endorsement dollars and having parents buy their kids a poster to hang on their wall — Smoking pot is worse than a DUI.

      Point is : DUI is “driving under the influence” which includes influence of alcohol, drugs, pot, prescription drugs….. degree of danger is how much someone had.

      I think MOCPIBSUV is worse “mom on cell phone in big SUV” and more dangerous

    • #40267
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @JHU84 wrote:

      I think MOCPIBSUV is worse “mom on cell phone in big SUV” and more dangerous

      That is stupid. DUI kills alot more people per incident than talking on the cell phone. This is in no way a defense of doing that, but give me a break. Oh and BTW: it was PHELPS who the orginal comparison to Hall came from, he was the one with the DUI. Though, actually, our president did that too (plus he snorted coke).

    • #40268
      JHU84
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      @JHU84 wrote:

      I think MOCPIBSUV is worse “mom on cell phone in big SUV” and more dangerous

      That is stupid. DUI kills alot more people per incident than talking on the cell phone. This is in no way a defense of doing that, but give me a break. Oh and BTW: it was PHELPS who the orginal comparison to Hall came from, he was the one with the DUI. Though, actually, our president did that too (plus he snorted coke).

      sorry you didn’t get the humor the thread was heading to the point that pot is not DUI and therefor a lessor infraction. It is in fact considered legal a DUI offense. So for kicks I compared talking on the cell phone as prevous poster did with the abberv comment to show the absurdity in that line of thought. Chill out drive resposibly.

      oh and not to start a new debate as it could go on forever:

      “Many studies have shown that using hand-held cell phones while driving can constitute a hazardous distraction. However, the theory that hands-free sets are safer has been challenged by the findings of several studies. A study from researchers at the University of Utah, published in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors, the quarterly journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, concludes that talking on a cell phone while driving is as dangerous as driving drunk, even if the phone is a hands-free model. An earlier study by researchers at the university found that motorists who talked on hands-free cell phones were 18 percent slower in braking and took 17 percent longer to regain the speed they lost when they braked. “

    • #40269
      Low Tide
      Member

      I agree that a president, one person or one entity will never have too much of an impact on the economy (unless it is something so drastic like FDR’s New Deal), but the one thing a president does seem to have a lot of impact on is world opinion. It is amazing to me this country received the greatest outpouring of worldwide warmth and support (following 9-11) since WWII, and in a few short years we are one of the most hated country in the world.

      I like seeing republicans in office, but man, I just have a hard time thinking of anything positive to say about Bush, at all. I am just as pissed at the democrats that they could not come up with an even remotely charismatic nominee to beat him.

      Same problem here in Michigan — Horrible democratic governor, Granholm — she is passionately hated, yet who do the republicans nominate? Dick DeVoss, a conservative, right-wing Christian whose father formed Amway (the most annoying company in the world). If they had just nominated a slightly more moderate candidate, in left-leaning Michigan, they would have won in a landslide.

      Sorry to go off-topic, just felt like venting a bit 🙂

    • #40270
      Low Tide
      Member

      “Many studies have shown that using hand-held cell phones while driving can constitute a hazardous distraction. However, the theory that hands-free sets are safer has been challenged by the findings of several studies. A study from researchers at the University of Utah, published in the summer 2006 issue of Human Factors, the quarterly journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society, concludes that talking on a cell phone while driving is as dangerous as driving drunk, even if the phone is a hands-free model. An earlier study by researchers at the university found that motorists who talked on hands-free cell phones were 18 percent slower in braking and took 17 percent longer to regain the speed they lost when they braked. “

      The thing about that — is the same studies have shown merely “talking” while driving is a distraction: Whether it is on a cell phone, directly or hands free, or talking to someone in the car with you. I don’t know how you outlaw talking while driving.

    • #40271
      Derek
      Member

      I also read somewhere that talking while driving ages you enough to be considered “too old to drive.” Clearly I don’t have the study in front of me since I’m not using he correct language, but I remember the implications:

      Driving and talking on the cell phone is like driving and being 75. Personally, I don’t want to drive like my grandma.

    • #40272

      Reading these post I have come to the conclusion I made a bit mistake in 2004 when, after attending a party, drinking large enough volumes of alcohol to make my German/Irish relatives tell me to slow down, and smoking enough pot to make Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson say “Damn,” I proceeded to the ballot box, voted for Bush, then drove home.

      Sometimes you mess up and say “Oh Well,” other times you realize you are going to Hell.

    • #40273
      Duck
      Member

      You are indeed going to hell… for being part-german.

      Germans are piggish-looking, sadomasochistic automatons whose only known forms of relaxation are swilling watery beer from vast tubs and singing the idiotically repetitive verses of their porcine folk tune — both of which amusements probably hark back to a prehuman state. Even their language lacks any semblance of civilized speech. Their usual diet consists almost wholly of old cabbage and sections of animal intestines filled with blood and gore. Luckily, once every two or three decades, they set forth, lemming-like, on pointless military adventures during which great numbers of them are slaughtered — much to the improvement of the world in general. Their lardy women have long, tangled masses of sticky hair under their arms, and the men shave the sides of their heads.

      Though at least they have killed a lot of the French — they’re not all bad, I suppose.

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