Final Thoughts?

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    • #12876
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      Good times, bad times, expected times.
      Emu, Wheaton, etc?

    • #41759
      Negrodamus
      Member

      Hey Stevo remember when you said K swimmers don’t drop on average 2.5 seconds in the 100 for taper.

      Greiner – split 47.9 on ‘B’ 400 FR, in season best split: 50.9 = 3.0 second drop
      Craig- 48.77 – 46.95 = 1.8 second drop
      Bazzell – 49.23 – 47.1 = 2.1 second drop
      Parker – 52.2 – 49.0 = 3.2 second drop

      I think all of those are significant drops and the average drop is 2.6 seconds.

    • #41760
      iamdonovan
      Member

      Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

    • #41761

      Negrodamus…

      What I think Stevo was pointing to was that the Hope 4-free swimmers would be dropping from 47’s and 48’s to 45’s and 46’s… While the performances by the K guys are impressive and do sum up to great tapers, the final times are not quite there. Not to take anything away from the the K 4-free because I never would have expected them to do as well as they did. Congrats

    • #41762
      Negrodamus
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Good thing K is tapering for Eastern…we’ll get to see the 2.5 second time drop.

      I don’t see Stevo saying anything in this about 45’s and 46’s. Didn’t two of the Hope sprinters go 47’s anyway which is what you said they would drop time from, not to.

      All I’m saying is I think the 400 free relay is going to be close and I’m excited to see that race. Oh and I suck at quoting.

    • #41763

      Stevo didn’t say anything about 45’s or 46’s but I did. And now, in defense of myself… Rose (47 in season) split a 45. Nelis (48 in season) split a 46. RVZ was a 46 in the open, and I don’t think he was ever under 48 in season (although I haven’t done my research I’m just going on memory).

      but yes you’re right there were 47’s on the 4free in finals
      fun race to watch at MIAA

    • #41764
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Samuel L Jackson wrote:

      Stevo didn’t say anything about 45’s or 46’s but I did. And now, in defense of myself… Rose (47 in season) split a 45. Nelis (48 in season) split a 46. RVZ was a 46 in the open, and I don’t think he was ever under 48 in season (although I haven’t done my research I’m just going on memory).

      but yes you’re right there were 47’s on the 4free in finals
      fun race to watch at MIAA

      Bottom line is the sprinter from Hope and Kzoo both improved nice amounts from the tri-meet. Still, come one, no one saw Buzzard pulling off a 47.1

    • #41765
      iamdonovan
      Member

      Actually, I saw it. It was pretty sweet to watch.

      …kidding…

    • #41766

      I personally feel that the highlight of the meet was the 1:56 200 free split by David “DJ Mixitup” Greiner on the 800 relay. I think we consistently learn from Greiner that although he may not always come away with the best final times in his off-events, he always masters the element of surprise. You should have seen the guys from Wayne State’s B 800 relay next to Kalamazoo’s B: they were in absolute shock to see greiner split 54-1:01. It really threw them off.

      Jim Entwistle also continued to dazzle in the 500 freestyle. He really did not concern himself with his final time, but made it his goal to break Pete Vanderkaay’s NCAA record in the 500 freestyle of 4:08 at the 400 mark. The suspense was high as Entwistle coasted to a breathtaking 4:06.22 in his first 400. It really is a wonder that Coach Miliken has just started putting him in the 500 this year.

      Another terrific show was put on by rising sophomore star Barrett Mueller in the 100 back. His teammates have nicknamed him “sub-zero” for his dominant sub-minute performance in the 100 yard backstroke. If the MIAA was changed to be scored by top-18, I think Mueller would have a really solid chance at making it back in that event at MIAA’s this year.

    • #41767
      maverick1
      Member

      @Nehemiah Ingram wrote:

      Jim Entwistle also continued to dazzle in the 500 freestyle.

      yeah, why is jim still swimming the 500

      if he’ll score in the 2 fly events then keep him training fly and mid distance and put him in the 400IM, or the 200 breast

    • #41768
      Stevo
      Member

      Well Negrodamus, i don’t care that Parker dropped from a 52.2 to a 49.0. That might have been a great swim for him, but the 49.0 will have nothing to do with what happens in February.

      Rob Knecht was a 54.9 and dropped to a 52.3 for a drop of 2.6 seconds. It was great and motivating for the hope guys because he was having lifetime best swims. Give me statistics of guys that are going to be on the relays and score at MIAA’s. Not the whole team and how they all had PR’s.

      I was very impressed with the K freshman sprinters, but they still are not going to win either the 2 or 400 free relays.

    • #41769
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I was very impressed with the K freshman sprinters, but they still are not going to win either the 2 or 400 free relays.

      What is more likely: Kzoo beat hope in one of those relays or Heyboer beats Ellis in the 200 back (rule out DQ’s which are obviously more likley in relays (unless it is a time-trial (just kidding))).

    • #41770
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I think it is more likely that kzoo beat hope in one of the two relays. I think Ellis will be a little quicker this year then he was last year at MIAA, and that is only bad news for Heyboer.

    • #41771
      Bocephus
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      yeah, why is jim still swimming the 500

      if he’ll score in the 2 fly events then keep him training fly and mid distance and put him in the 400IM, or the 200 breast

      You’re right, Its also convenient that these are also coincidentally Jim’s two favorite events.

    • #41772
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      @Stevo wrote:

      I was very impressed with the K freshman sprinters, but they still are not going to win either the 2 or 400 free relays.

      What is more likely: Kzoo beat hope in one of those relays or Heyboer beats Ellis in the 200 back (rule out DQ’s which are obviously more likley in relays (unless it is a time-trial (just kidding))).

      What about the 800? I thought it was impossible for K to win any free relay, is this still the case? I was impressed with both Fleming and Bazzel in that event (except on the relay) and think they could step up at MIAAs and win, if Ellis is added.

    • #41773
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I honestly always thought k had a chance in the 800 free relay

    • #41774
      Stevo
      Member

      I think phil will make it more of a race but i think ellis is a better backstroker (no shock there).

      If you put a gun to my head and forced me to answer which is MORE LIKELY, not WILL HAPPEN i would say K winning a free relay, but it’s not going to happen.

      K’s freshman sprinters swam exceptional this weekend, but they are also on a full taper like K always does for Eastern. So i don’t expect very much of a time drop from K at league meet from the results of this past weekend. So to take these guys lifetime best times and make up another second and a half (for the 200 FR) to be 1:23 mid seems a little ridiculous. I will use the same argument with the 400 FR. Hope will improve on there mideseason times as a whole, K will have a couple improvements but overall swim very similar to the Easter times.

    • #41775
      El Duderino
      Member

      I believe Easter falls on March 23 this year, so I’m not sure that really comes into play.

    • #41776
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      HAHA

    • #41777
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I think phil will make it more of a race but i think ellis is a better backstroker (no shock there).

      I’m not trying to start anything, I just have no idea what this means. More of a race than what?

    • #41778
      Stevo
      Member

      I’ll throw and N on the end of Easter for you.

      I think Phil will make it a better race than it was last year, meaning he will be closer to Ellis but Ellis will win.

    • #41779
      El Duderino
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I’ll throw and N on the end of Easter for you.

      Thanks, I appreciate it.

    • #41780
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I am going to go ahead and say that the 200 back will not even be within a second. Ellis will just destroy Heyboer.

    • #41781
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I’ll throw and N on the end of Easter for you.

      I think Phil will make it a better race than it was last year, meaning he will be closer to Ellis but Ellis will win.

      Ah, I gotcha. I’ll take the over on .85 seconds this year. Can I take the double over?

    • #41782
      swim5599
      Member

      What was the difference last year 1:50.5 to 1:51 plus? Heyboer will close the gap a bit but not enough to win

    • #41783
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      What was the difference last year 1:50.5 to 1:51 plus? Heyboer will close the gap a bit but not enough to win

      The gap was .85 at conferences, .51 for prelims of NCAAs, 3.5 for finals at NCAAs.

      So I would argue that it’s dumb to say he will close the gap (unless you mean on the 3.5 from finals) but won’t win… not when it’s that close. (I am not saying you are dumb, you just didn’t know the difference… don’t want it to come off that way.)

    • #41784
      guynumberone
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      K’s freshman sprinters swam exceptional this weekend, but they are also on a full taper like K always does for Eastern. So i don’t expect very much of a time drop from K at league meet from the results of this past weekend.

      In the 50, between EMU ’06 and MIAA’07..

      Ellis dropped 0.5
      Dmitruk dropped 0.7
      Hennigar dropped 0.3
      Greiner and Fons didn’t drop/add much
      Parker dropped 0.3

      4/6 isn’t bad, I’d expect drops from McLovin’ and the Bazz.

    • #41785
      maverick1
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      K’s freshman sprinters swam exceptional this weekend, but they are also on a full taper like K always does for Eastern. So i don’t expect very much of a time drop from K at league meet from the results of this past weekend.

      From the Thread “Eastern Results?”
      @quacker wrote:

      in my day we did knock down the yardage (and meterage) and cut out morning swims before wheaton, so there is resting. there is also shaving, leg skins, and caps, so that helps a bit too. but honestly, i think coach patnott knew exactly what he was doing, whether that be big rest or small rest before wheaton, and just always told us we weren’t doing a “full taper” so we wouldn’t get discouraged if the times weren’t where we wanted at that point in the season.

      And

      @Yellowstone National Park wrote:

      Quacker’s got it right, when i was at hope we never really heard from the coaches the exact level of resting we were going through, but you could usually tell from how you felt and the results…..i don’t think this is any real news to the K team

      So Stevo, hope rested big for wheaton this year (this is quite undeniable), which is probably the same as a full taper. So will hope not drop any more time, will the training that happends for the rest of the season not make any difference come miaas. No way.

      Both teams will be faster in all of the free relays (especially in the 800, or that’ll just be sad). I’m saying that right now hope is the favorite going into miaas, although you’ll have to compare the relays and individuals on having been on similar ground (the short distance freestylers) in terms of fullness of taper.

    • #41786
      Stevo
      Member

      In light on guynumberone’s post i will stick to my prediction.

      Hope guys wheaton vs MIAA’s last year time drops

      50 Free-
      RVZ-.61
      CVB- .26
      Kurti- .41
      Rose- .29

      100 Free-
      RVZ- 1.18
      CVB- no time drop
      Kurti- 1.06
      Rose- .40

      Hope will have bigger time drops than K from the mid-season meet to MIAA’s. Even if you look at the change from last year and it’s exactly the same hope drops 1.57 in the 50 free on those 4 guys making there MIAA time 1:22.53.* I dont’ have the data to look at what K’s relay would be because of freshman but they aren’t going to be close to those drops.

      *I understand the faster the times the harder it is to drop, but i am trying to be consistent with what guynumberone is predicting K will do.

    • #41787
      maverick1
      Member

      not trying for an argument with this one, just want a clarification stevo, are those drops from each swimmer’s relay split last season or from their individual swims or a combination of both…..i’m just trying to get the info so that someone can post a logical and realistic response.

    • #41788
      maverick1
      Member

      and i’m not saying that your post stevo isn’t logical an realistic…i think maybe one of the kzoo predictions would fit into that category, so that’s what i’m referecing in my above post

    • #41789
      Stevo
      Member

      Silentp always says Hope’s coaching approach will change with the departure of Hamstra and Taber due to past experiences , and that is exactly what i’m doing with the midesason vs miaa. Historically Hope drops more time at league meet that K. Does K still drop time? Yes but comparitively Hope has a better league meet taper.

      I am agreeing 100% with stewie on the topic of league line-ups. Hope has always had a ton of sprinters. Maverick and Pfau, if you are swimming exhibition at the leauge meet what would you swim, the 50 free, or 500? You see all of hope’s exhibition swimmers and think, “wow Hope has a ton of people in that event”. The guys on the team will swim whatever it takes to win. I would have swam the mile, 400 IM, and 200 Fly if that would have helped us win the league title my freshman and sophomore year. But the wouldnt’ have helped AT ALL. If you think that hope has an individualistic attitude you are an idiot.

    • #41790
      Stevo
      Member

      i took each swimmers individual best swim at wheaton and MIAA’s. It didn’t matter if it was prelims or finals. There are no relay swims in my calculations.

    • #41791
      maverick1
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I would have swam the mile, 400 IM, and 200 Fly if that would have helped us win the league title my freshman and sophomore year. But the wouldnt’ have helped AT ALL.

      honestly man, i don’t recall you ever swimming the 200 free tapered, so i don’t think the mile would have gone very well.

      i don’t think anybody implied that there was an individualistic attitude at hope, but if you can find the quote i think we can at least defend it, although i think that you’re taking us saying “maybe some of those guys in the 50 could have scored higher in the 200 back” the wrong way since those comments were meant to be taken for face value.

    • #41792
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I think Hope’s 200 free relay is going to be great. Defintely in the running to be under 1:23. They are actually going to need to be that fast because it is going to take a 1:23.3 to make Nats this year. Kzoo cannot do that this year (goodness wouldn’t it be sweet if we had one or two 20. freestylers coming in….) and thus it would be a big upset if Kzoo won this relay.

      That said, lets lay off calling Kzoo’s relay at Eastern 4 life-time bests. There wasn’t a single great swim on that relay, the swimmers were beat from the morning session and it showed in the splits. Ellis was 20.99 and Craig was 22.1 Considering he was 21.8 (relay start) and 22.5 (flatstart) to his feet a day earlier I am pretty sure he will be a heck of a lot fast in February.

    • #41793
      maverick1
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Maverick and Pfau, if you are swimming exhibition at the leauge meet what would you swim, the 50 free, or 500?

      my freshman year i swam exhibition at leagues and did the 500, 400im and 1650

      so i would swim the 500 and i did choose that

    • #41794
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      So you think RVZ will be 20.4 at MIAA

    • #41795
      maverick1
      Member

      @maverick wrote:

      @Stevo wrote:

      Maverick and Pfau, if you are swimming exhibition at the leauge meet what would you swim, the 50 free, or 500?

      my freshman year i swam exhibition at leagues and did the 500, 400im and 1650

      so i did choose the 500

    • #41796
      Stevo
      Member

      Mav , if you check it out i am an All-American in the 800 free relay leading off in 1:46! Yeah i would die if the race was a 75. Anything over a 100 i wasn’t very good. So i was really glad to find out i could semi swim the breaststroke.

      cheadle- I would say that K’s freshman sprinters will make the next 3 years very interesting. But this isn’t the year for them. But if hope doesn’t get some recruits you will see the 200 free relay change hands. For this year K will improve and may even be under 1:24 for the first time in school history but in a second place effort.

      K is definitely on the rise, but Hope’s not dead, this next recruiting class will be a huge indication of what will happen in years to come.

    • #41797
      maverick1
      Member

      nice swim, i never saw that 200, that’s better than i thought your time would have been.

    • #41798
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Historically Hope drops more time at league meet that K. Does K still drop time? Yes but comparitively Hope has a better league meet taper.

      The first part of this statement is true, but I’m not sure that means it’s a better taper. More of a drop from midseason just means they rested less for midseason. The better taper would be defined by the number of personal bests.

      Here are the K drops from last year, which are not as impressive as Hope’s

      50
      Ellis .49
      Dmitruk .74
      Greiner .04
      Fonsy .17

      100
      Dmitruk .35
      Hennigar .57

      200
      Dmitruk 3.36
      Hennigar 2.01

      @Stevo wrote:

      Maverick and Pfau, if you are swimming exhibition at the leauge meet what would you swim, the 50 free, or 500?

      I would swim whatever I was best at and trained for. I have never questioned Hope for doing this. If you think I did, you misread. For the record, I would have swam the 400 IM my senior year, if I had been exhibitioning, as it was my 2nd best event, but not a need for the team.

    • #41799
      guynumberone
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      In light on guynumberone’s post i will stick to my prediction.

      Hope guys wheaton vs MIAA’s last year time drops

      50 Free-
      RVZ-.61
      CVB- .26
      Kurti- .41
      Rose- .29

      100 Free-
      RVZ- 1.18
      CVB- no time drop
      Kurti- 1.06
      Rose- .40

      Hope will have bigger time drops than K from the mid-season meet to MIAA’s. Even if you look at the change from last year and it’s exactly the same hope drops 1.57 in the 50 free on those 4 guys making there MIAA time 1:22.53.* I dont’ have the data to look at what K’s relay would be because of freshman but they aren’t going to be close to those drops.

      *I understand the faster the times the harder it is to drop, but i am trying to be consistent with what guynumberone is predicting K will do.

      I showed that most of the freshmen dropped time from EMU to MIAA, and you showed that Hope’s studs (3 of whom weren’t freshmen) dropped. I don’t think K can beat Hope in a free relay this year (especially if Hope decides to do a time trial afterward 😉 ), but I think in the 50, we can see a drop of 0.3 from both of them, which would be enough for both of them to make it back, and they can certainly put up a 21 low/20 high in the relay (Bazzell did already, with a 21.16 and a 21.09), which certainly makes a 1:24 low possible.

      (after they do, they can come over to the party for spinach dip, and real hot chicks.)

    • #41800
      Nasty Natti
      Member

      Greiner had a semi significant drop from EMU to MIAA’s relay style:

      EMU-21.2
      MIAA-20.8

    • #41801
      Stevo
      Member

      That said, lets lay off calling Kzoo’s relay at Eastern 4 life-time bests. There wasn’t a single great swim on that relay, the swimmers were beat from the morning session and it showed in the splits. Ellis was 20.99 and Craig was 22.1 Considering he was 21.8 (relay start) and 22.5 (flatstart) to his feet a day earlier I am pretty sure he will be a heck of a lot fast in February.

      Cheadle….the EMU meet is timed finals, from your logic K is going to be pretty bad on the third day of MIAA’s for that 400 FR. They must have been way to tired from all those sessions.

    • #41802
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I think what he is say is that this is part of the effect of not coming down all the way, or the type of taper they did. If you look at past swims at EMU from K I am sure you will see some tired swims.

    • #41803
      Low Tide
      Member

      Cheadle….the EMU meet is timed finals, from your logic K is going to be pretty bad on the third day of MIAA’s for that 400 FR. They must have been way to tired from all those sessions.

      There’s also the difference of swimming all those events in three days instead of two. If you can wrap your mind around it 😉

    • #41804
      stiles
      Member

      How is KZoo so tired at the EMU meet? They probably rest more and don’t swim prelims/finals. They show up and go, timed finals, out of the gate. It’s unreal to me that anyone even insinuates that K would be ‘beat from swimming the morning session’ I mean what, had they swum all of 5 times that weekend by that point? Unreal. Timed finals and 3 sessions. Wow.

    • #41805
      KG from KZOO
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      How is KZoo so tired at the EMU meet?

      EMU doesn’t come close to MIAAs in terms of being tired. I don’t know who threw that idea out there, but we won’t use being tired or “lack of motivation” as an excuse for slower swims!

    • #41806
      Stevo
      Member

      Low Tide what is so hard to wrap my mind around? It’s timed finals and you have three sessions, that’s like a glorified dual meet spread out over two days. My point was that if K is tired for the 200 FREE RELAY (a 50 freestyle people) on the 3rd session of a timed finals meet, i can’t imagine what it’s going to be like to swim twice as far, at the end of a 3 day prelims and finals meet.

    • #41807
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Low Tide what is so hard to wrap my mind around? It’s timed finals and you have three sessions, that’s like a glorified dual meet spread out over two days. My point was that if K is tired for the 200 FREE RELAY (a 50 freestyle people) on the 3rd session of a timed finals meet, i can’t imagine what it’s going to be like to swim twice as far, at the end of a 3 day prelims and finals meet.

      It’s 1 less session than Hope swam, with a few less swims. Some of the guys looked slow in the last session. Hope looked slow in the last session as well. Neither will have an impact on the MIAA meet, but if you want to jump on this issue and use it to think even less of K, then go ahead.

    • #41808
      maverick1
      Member

      there are some things about emu that make that last session tough…..i know from my experience that swimming the 1650 during the first session always did have an adverse effect on the rest of the meet.

      you might say that the swimmers typically got tired by the end of the mid season taper meet because they’re not in their best shape yet, right? I believe this is the case, especially when you consider the coming break which will involve some pretty intense two-a-days.

      the miaa meet does tend to move quite quickly also, which results in quite a bit of rest between sessions, which i always thought helped.

    • #41809
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I remember in my younger days swimming the mile one day, the next day i went 6 seconds slower in the 200 free, then the next day i had a pr in the 200 free on a relay. Granted I was 14 at the time

    • #41810
      Stevo
      Member

      but if you want to jump on this issue and use it to think even less of K, then go ahead.

      I am just playing the same type of cards that cheadle always plays with the hope guys. I don’t think i can think any less of K, so this issue wouldn’t change me view.

      The reason Hope doesn’t go to Wheaton is because Wheaton is a two day meet with all the events of MIAA’s prelims and finals in 2 days. It is way different that having two days of timed finals. My original post was pointing out that cheadle was making a point that K’s swimmer were tired for the 200 FR, and i am sure they were, but how does that correlate to MIAA’s? Yes they will have a faster 200 FR, it’s the first event on Thursday, but it’s a long three day meet, and it comes down to who wants it more on the 400 FR, because everyone is tired. I think Hope will be in a better position.

    • #41811
      El Duderino
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I don’t think i can think any less of K, so this issue wouldn’t change me view.

      Ahoy, matey. Arrrg.

      I swear, I’ll probably stop doing this at some point, but since I don’t really feel like contributing to actual swimming discussions, I’m going to keep on pointing out grammatical mistakes and such.

      Seacrest, out!

    • #41812
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I am just playing the same type of cards that cheadle always plays with the hope guys. I don’t think i can think any less of K, so this issue wouldn’t change me view.

      For clarification, my “Hope Card” is that…darn it I liked the way it was written originally. Can we just substiture the word “tits” for “teets” and put back the orginal?

      Despite what you have been told, it was not natural for you to breastfeed past 12 months.

      Okay, where were we? Oh yes the 200 free relay. I have already stated Hope will be 1:23 low and kzoo right around 1:23.7 So why would you choose to disagree with me, Stevo?

    • #41813
      stiles
      Member

      Good job Cheadle. That was contructive.

      Going back to the “Kzoo swimmers = vaginas, for swimming at the EMU meet”…I can’t believe they wer THAT tired by the time the 4 free rolled around…just taking a look a few swimmers, it shows that the hope guys would have bene more tired.

      Number of events swam:
      Rose-10
      Nelis-10
      Heyboer-10
      The 10 swim mark is consistent for anyone that swam p/f of their events and as many relays as possible.

      Ellis-8
      Fleming-7
      Dekker-7

      If you didn’t exhibtion anything, you were at 7 for the EMU meet.

      Also, this is the first time that swimmers were not allowed to exhibition events at the Wheaton meet, so in past years that number would have been 11 for all of them.

    • #41814
      quacker
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      Also, this is the first time that swimmers were not allowed to exhibition events at the Wheaton meet, so in past years that number would have been 11 for all of them.

      That’s unfortunate. Exhibition at Wheaton was a good way to test out a new 3rd event with a rested effort. I imagine it’s because they have more (or at least larger) teams there than usual

    • #41815
      maverick1
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      Also, this is the first time that swimmers were not allowed to exhibition events at the Wheaton meet

      stupid wheaton, they must be equating exhibition swims to evolution these days.

      was the meet running really slowly, the results didn’t make it seem like there would be no room for exhibition time-wise

      @stiles wrote:

      I can’t believe they wer THAT tired by the time the 4 free rolled around…just taking a look a few swimmers, it shows that the hope guys would have bene more tired.

      Number of events swam:
      Rose-10
      Nelis-10
      Heyboer-10

      -the 200 free relay is in question i believe, not the 400
      -why mention heyboer, i do think he would throw down a huge split in either the 400 or 200 free relay, but i recall him not being on either ‘A’ relay in the results

      how about we all agree on this one……both 200 free relays and both 400 free relays will be faster at miaas, and since hope has the best taper time so far, they’ll go in as favorites

    • #41816
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I would agree that Hope is the favorite in these events.

    • #41817
      stiles
      Member

      I checked heyboer because I wanted someone that wasn’t a sprint oriented person. I figured that it would be 10 (3 inds with p/f, 4 relays), but I wanted to double check with someone that wasn’t.

      The point I was trying to make with noting the 4 free relay is that K swam that 4 free at the end of the day Friday (probably the 2nd ord 3rd swim for each of the guys on teh relay) where the Hope 400 free was the very last event, menaing it was their 10th swim.

      The 2 free relay would have been at the end during the second session on the first day after what could have been a 4th swim…(50 p/f, 4 med, then 2 free). In all the results, they have the relays all last so I cant tell the order of events. Apologies.

    • #41818
      maverick1
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      In all the results, they have the relays all last so I cant tell the order of events. Apologies.

      ahh, the meet just goes backwards starting with friday night’s session would be day 3 events at miaas, saturday morning being day 2 of miaas and saturday night as day 1 of miaas, including relays.

    • #41819
      silentp
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      The point I was trying to make with noting the 4 free relay is that K swam that 4 free at the end of the day Friday (probably the 2nd ord 3rd swim for each of the guys on teh relay) where the Hope 400 free was the very last event, menaing it was their 10th swim.

      I don’t think most people on here actually think K could upset Hope in the 400 FR. The relay that has been brought up most is the 800, followed by the 200 FR. Those are almost ignored, however, and Hope jumps on the 400 FR.

      Hope will win the 400 FR, there is no doubt. I think Cheadle’s point was exactly what you said, in comparison to Hope, K was more tired for the 200 FR.

    • #41820
      Stevo
      Member

      Last time I checked I don’t live in West Michigan and I’m not from West Michigan.

      I would agree that Hope is the favorite for the 200 and 400 Free Relays.

    • #41821
      Stevo
      Member

      Silentp i made the comparison of the 200FR for K at EMU to the 400 FR at MIAA’s because of the tired comment. I wasn’t saying the 400 FR was in question just pointing out an observation in Cheadles post.

    • #41822
      Low Tide
      Member

      H Scale trains rule!

    • #41823
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Silentp i made the comparison of the 200FR for K at EMU to the 400 FR at MIAA’s because of the tired comment. I wasn’t saying the 400 FR was in question just pointing out an observation in Cheadles post.

      I agree with you, meaning I think Hope’s 400 FR will drop significant time. I figured you would feel the same way… and if you do, that means you would also admit that K would probably see a nice drop, for similar reasons.

    • #41824
      Stevo
      Member

      Low Tide you not only made reference to K swimmers being gay but then you have an Avatar like that….you’re not helping your cause. Maybe David Hasselhoff is the K swimming God.

      Whether you have that opinion of me or not doesn’t matter. I will not be losing sleep over it. [/quote]

    • #41825
      Stevo
      Member

      silentp i do think K’s 200 FR will have a nice time drop at MIAA’s for the same reason. I think it will be the first time they go under 1:24, but in a losing effort

    • #41826
      Low Tide
      Member

      Low Tide you not only made reference to K swimmers being gay but then you have an Avatar like that….you’re not helping your cause. Maybe David Hasselhoff is the K swimming God.

      See? Lame.

      I actually do not have that opinion of you, or any of the Hope swimmers I have come to know — I’m just saying, in the spirit of competition, it’s nice to be able to stereotype your competitors. Hope has always complied nicely in that area.

    • #41827

      Guess what? The same percentage of Hope swimmers and Kalamazoo swimmers are from Michigan this year (80% from both teams).

      Granted, a higher percentage of the Kalamazoo swimmers are from eastern Michigan. But while were all making gross generalizations… whether they came from western Michigan and were breast fed by white-bread conservative mothers by going to Hope, or came from Eastern Michigan and fed on union-loving, liberal boobs makes no difference to me.

    • #41828
      Low Tide
      Member

      Bah… never mind.

    • #41829
      silentp
      Member

      Ok, STOP. No more K-Hope bashing unless it is in regards to swimming. I have deleted 1 post (Monkey Boy) and deleted lines on a few other posts (that referenced edited lines), and edited some. All edits are done in italics. If you don’t like them, edit it yourself, but keep it clean.

      Let’s get back to swimming…

      Thank you.

    • #41830
      Low Tide
      Member

      My post count is going to take a serious dip — you just negated 90% of my comments 8)

    • #41831

      Well now it’s going to look like I was the first one to bring up breasts in this post. Low Tide I read your post before any edits were made and assumed you were joking.

    • #41832
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Do not delete/edit my posts. Stevo knows I was joking and he doesn’t take it seriously. Same goes for Kurt. If Stevo insinuates I am gay there is no reason to delete that either (besides it was one time and I was really really loaded).

      I really do believe that if a study was done you would find that your average Hope swimmer breastfed for longer than your average Kzoo swimmer. Obviously that can never be proven, but isn’t this website all about opinions.

    • #41833
      Monkey Boy
      Member

      You mother-loving cute, adorable moderators just made my nice list. If one more of you sons of great parents deletes another post of mine I will knit you a pair of mittens out of your own yarn. I am having yet another lovely day to my delightful existance and you just brightened it up even more.

      I like you!
      I like Hope!
      and I want to ride the horse you rode in on!

    • #41834
      Mickey Mouse
      Member

      My post count is going to take a serious dip — you just negated 90% of my comments

      No – 90% of your comments include some reference to something that happened back in “your day” 🙂

    • #41835
      Low Tide
      Member

      No – 90% of your comments include some reference to something that happened back in “your day”

      Good point… which probably makes slightly less than 1% of my posts relevant or informative by any stretch of the imagination. What the hell am I doing here??? 😕

      And where is that damn nurse, I’ve been pressing this button for hours!!

    • #41836
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Monkey Boy, good work. Had a good laugh!

    • #41837
      Derek
      Member

      This thread has been so hard to read – I haven’t been on for a couple days and look what happens. Monkey Boy, genius work.

    • #41838
      Derek
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      I don’t think i can think any less of K

      That sucks you hold your college in such low regard. Considering how much better K is than Hope, in every way.

    • #41839
      Stevo
      Member

      Derek in your own little world

    • #41840
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Derek in your own little world

      nipple

    • #41841
      The Grimace
      Member

      In the immortal words of Eric Cartman: Titty Sprinkles!

    • #41842
      swim5599
      Member

      ANy Chance Ellis goes both backstrokes and all 5 relays at the conf meet? To me it does not make sense for him to swim a third event that might only be a B cut, when they would have a shot to get a relay in the meet.

    • #41843
      Derek
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      Derek in your own little world

      Does anybody else find that kinda ironic?

    • #41844
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      ANy Chance Ellis goes both backstrokes and all 5 relays at the conf meet? To me it does not make sense for him to swim a third event that might only be a B cut, when they would have a shot to get a relay in the meet.

      No, I think they’ll want the points, rather than focusing solely on Nationals, but it’s a good point you bring up.

    • #41845
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Thats what time trials are for….

      I know you all hate them, but that is what they are there for, getting a relay a better cut, or just getting a cut.

    • #41846
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      ANy Chance Ellis goes both backstrokes and all 5 relays at the conf meet? To me it does not make sense for him to swim a third event that might only be a B cut, when they would have a shot to get a relay in the meet.

      In case you haven’t figured it out inthe MIAA we care about the conference meet almsot as much as NCAA’s. Kzoo has 6 guys that are going to swim all their relays at Nats and they have all already qualified (based on last years cuts) at this point.

    • #41847
      silentp
      Member

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      Thats what time trials are for….

      I know you all hate them, but that is what they are there for, getting a relay a better cut, or just getting a cut.

      We don’t hate them. I won’t go into what we don’t like. It is a good point, but time trials really only work for shorter events. This means they would have to take my suggestion and swim Ellis on the 8FR, because you just can’t time trial it. The 400FR would still be hard to time trial, but more likely.

      The question for that relay would be when… the best chance would be Saturday morning after prelims, but I don’t see them improving on their EMU time in that scenario.

    • #41848
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Again time trials are of no use for Kzoo because they have already got a full roster for relays to the meet. Put Ellis in 5 relays at Nats and you have this:

      200 Free Relay
      Ellis
      Greiner
      Bazzel
      Flemming

      400 Medley
      Ellis
      Fonsi
      Dekker
      Flemming

      200 Medley
      Ellis
      Fonsi
      Greiner
      Bazz

      800 Free
      Ellis
      Dekker
      Bazzel
      Flemming

      400 Free
      Ellis
      Dekker
      Bazzel
      Flemming

      Anyone of the 6 guys from Kzoo can swim 5 relays at Nats but even so only Ellis is doing so in this scenario.

      Right now the only issue outstanding as far as Nats for Kzoo is if Booms makes it as an individual and if Dekker gets a B cut in the 200 IM (obviously he will).

    • #41849
      swim5599
      Member

      I realize that both of their 200 and 400 MR have put up selectable times to this point, but none of their free relays have. Maybe I read Don’s response wrong, but It does not look quite like they have 6 guys in the meet as of yet.

    • #41850
      maverick1
      Member

      swim5599

      200 medley relay:
      ellis
      espinosa
      greiner
      bazzel

      400 medley relay
      ellis
      espinosa
      dekker
      fleming

      that’s 6 guys

    • #41851
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I realize that both of their 200 and 400 MR have put up selectable times to this point, but none of their free relays have. Maybe I read Don’s response wrong, but It does not look quite like they have 6 guys in the meet as of yet.

      Yeah you read it wrong. They have 6 guys from the two medley relays and those 6 guys are the 6 guys who will be swimming their free relays.

      The backstroke-breaststroke combo is the same on both relays, however both the flyer and freestyler are different.

      (PS I don’t want to assume too much here though. I think it would be best if they shave a full second off of that 400 Medley time).

    • #41852
      swim5599
      Member

      Thanks for clearing it up.

    • #41853
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I would think that they would drop at least a full second of the 400 time by miaa. Fonzy was not at top form for EMU

    • #41854
      silentp
      Member

      @Rudy Shingle wrote:

      I would think that they would drop at least a full second of the 400 time by miaa. Fonzy was not at top form for EMU

      Agreed, and just for fun (this is not a prediction), here are PRs:

      Ellis 50.34
      Fonsy 55.37
      Dekker 50.49
      Flemming 46.26
      = 3:22.46

      That would likely be good for 3rd at NCAAs if they could put it all together at once (or have someone drop time to offset whoever would add).

    • #41855
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      Not to pick at it but I don’t recall Paul going 50.34

    • #41856
      silentp
      Member

      @Rudy Shingle wrote:

      Not to pick at it but I don’t recall Paul going 50.34

      NCAA 2007, Finals 100 Backstroke

    • #41857
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      My bad

    • #41858
      swim5599
      Member

      The Fonz seems a bit off so far this year. They are going to need him to step up big.

    • #41859
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Can someone confirm this story:

      I heard that, while in Florida, someone stole a plastic baby Jesus out of a lawn and on the way back to the hotel a window of the van cracked.

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