Do D3 Coaches Ever Get Canned?

Forums General General Do D3 Coaches Ever Get Canned?

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    • #12914

      We’ve had some discussion in the MIAC forum about a program, who has had the same coach for 15+ years, is just getting a brand new facility, is a top 20 liberal arts college, and is absolutely horrible at swimming. By horrible, I mean the school has probably never had a breast stroker under 1:05. The coach of this program recently landed a top 15 recruit, a 51. backstroker, who probably owned the school’s backstroke record on his first set of 5×100 back @ 1:30.

      So this begs the question. Do D3 swimming coaches ever get canned for being bad D3 swimming coaches? D3 football, basketball, and baseball coaches get canned all the time. Do AD’s not care about swimming, or are there actually poor performing coaches out there who are either getting their walking papers, or not having their contracts renewed?

      Can anyone in the D3 coaching circuit provide insight? How difficult is it to get a D3 swimming job? What is the interaction like with your AD? Does he/she ever tell you, 6-10, not very good, better improve next year, or else?

    • #42349
      Psimon3
      Member

      I personally have only ever heard of D3 swimming coaches let go for reasons outside of performance. The AD’s I have worked for just want the swimming programs to provide a positive experience for student-athletes and field a roster. If their success, great. Now, I cannot speak for every school but I would have to believe that most schools resonate that sentiment.

    • #42350
      swimUK
      Member

      Hmm… how can it be a positive experience for student-athletes if they are losing most of their dual meets and are always at the bottom of their conference?

    • #42351
      fr0gman
      Member

      It happens, not too often, but it happens. Usually either when a program falls from being pretty good to being bad, or a new AD comes in.

    • #42352
      Colbybr
      Member

      I think D3 AD’s tend to prioritize academics more, are the kids doing well in school, are they graduating, etc. This is as opposed to higher profile division 1 programs that are expressly trying to win. Certainly this differs philosophically from school to school to some degree. I know there are, like any profession, a lot of lazy coaches in D3 that don’t put in a winning effort.

    • #42353

      I mentioned this on the MIAC forum, but Carleton (obviously an academics first school) fired their baseball coach of like 15 years because they changed the rule that you needed a Masters to coach.

    • #42354

      Do D3 Coaches Ever Get Canned?

      Perhaps someone should has Paul Kuetermann.

    • #42355
      swimming2008
      Member

      I am currently the Head Coach at a DIII school and my predecessor was fired because she could not recruit and build a respectable program.

      The University I work at is one of the top schools in the nation (according to the Princeton Review), so academics are definitely a priority, but winning (not necessary a dual meet record – but a national ranking) is also a priority to my University and Athletic Director.

      I have a ton of interaction with my Athletic Director on a daily basis and the interview process was very rigorous. I’m not sure if my experience is typical for a DIII program, but I think it is refreshing that my University and Athletic Department care enough to fire a coach because of poor performance.

    • #42356

      I’ve also heard of one who got canned for lying on their resume.

    • #42357
      Colbybr
      Member

      @swimming2008 wrote:

      I am currently the Head Coach at a DIII school and my predecessor was fired because she could not recruit and build a respectable program.

      The University I work at is one of the top schools in the nation (according to the Princeton Review), so academics are definitely a priority, but winning (not necessary a dual meet record – but a national ranking) is also a priority to my University and Athletic Director.

      I have a ton of interaction with my Athletic Director on a daily basis and the interview process was very rigorous. I’m not sure if my experience is typical for a DIII program, but I think it is refreshing that my University and Athletic Department care enough to fire a coach because of poor performance.

      Great to hear! Just because we are D3 does not mean we should not pursue excellence and I am glad to hear that your University and AD are interested in this goal

    • #42358
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      @Mister Obvious wrote:

      I’ve also heard of one who got canned for lying on their resume.

      our tennis coach has recently “resigned” because she lied on her resume…I realize its tennis, not swimming, but tennis is probably down there with swimming for a lot of ADs

    • #42359
      swim5599
      Member

      Well I think that some Ad’s put pressure on their coaches to just resign instead of firing them. I feel like this subject could open up a giant can of worms, so we will see what happens.

    • #42360

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Well I think that some Ad’s put pressure on their coaches to just resign instead of firing them. I feel like this subject could open up a giant can of worms, so we will see what happens.

      Most coaches, like adjunct professors, are on contracts, so I think a resignation is the same thing as getting canned in this conversation. They are on a year-to-year basis.

      To the point that AD’s focus on academics, I pose this question, should a swimmer’s physics professor be blamed if the swimmer can’t break 52 in the 100 fly? I think not. AD’s have a job, and that is to field a winning team in every sport. Swimming coaches have a job, and that is to field a winning swimming team every year. Anything outside of these parameters is a minor portion of eaches job description.

    • #42361

      @swimming2008 wrote:

      I am currently the Head Coach at a DIII school and my predecessor was fired because she could not recruit and build a respectable program.

      The University I work at is one of the top schools in the nation (according to the Princeton Review), so academics are definitely a priority, but winning (not necessary a dual meet record – but a national ranking) is also a priority to my University and Athletic Director.

      I have a ton of interaction with my Athletic Director on a daily basis and the interview process was very rigorous. I’m not sure if my experience is typical for a DIII program, but I think it is refreshing that my University and Athletic Department care enough to fire a coach because of poor performance.

      Great post. I think that this goes to show that if a swimming coach is doing his or her job, the program grows and gets better. If an AD is doing his or her job, they will fire a bad coach. Letting a bad coach ride it out for 15 years, which seems to happen a lot in swimming, poorly reflects on the AD. Glad to hear your AD cares about the program.

    • #42362
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      But it is also the AD’s job to keep a reputable team.

    • #42363
      Colbybr
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Well I think that some Ad’s put pressure on their coaches to just resign instead of firing them. I feel like this subject could open up a giant can of worms, so we will see what happens.

      Most coaches, like adjunct professors, are on contracts, so I think a resignation is the same thing as getting canned in this conversation. They are on a year-to-year basis.

      To the point that AD’s focus on academics, I pose this question, should a swimmer’s physics professor be blamed if the swimmer can’t break 52 in the 100 fly? I think not. AD’s have a job, and that is to field a winning team in every sport. Swimming coaches have a job, and that is to field a winning swimming team every year. Anything outside of these parameters is a minor portion of eaches job description.

      I definitely agree with you. Claims of high academic character are often masking lazy lack of competitiveness. And the AD’s should be trying to field competitive teams. But some aren’t.

    • #42364
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Williams, MIT, Hopkins, Amherst all have pretty high academic standards, and they seem to do alright in the pool!

    • #42365
      Colbybr
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Williams, MIT, Hopkins, Amherst all have pretty high academic standards, and they seem to do alright in the pool!

      They sure do. I heard that Emory and Johns Hopkins are also decent schools πŸ˜›

    • #42366
      SwexasTim
      Member

      Mac, I know if my AD came up to me and said why are half your kids failing classes, and I told him, listen i’m here to get them to swim fast and win in the pool not to keep their grades up, I would be out the door before I finished that sentence.

    • #42367

      @SwexasTim wrote:

      Mac, I know if my AD came up to me and said why are half your kids failing classes, and I told him, listen i’m here to get them to swim fast and win in the pool not to keep their grades up, I would be out the door before I finished that sentence.

      That’s an eligability issue, and is certainly the perogative of both the coach and the AD. Why are all of your swimmers C students is another story, and should have little to do with the coach.

      Again, they don’t pay swim coaches to help kids out with differential equations. They pay them to field a winning program, and leave differential equations to the department of professors with math PhD’s.

    • #42368
      t3hhammer
      Member

      I disagree with you MAC. A good coach at a good program is being paid to mold athletes into successful people, not just successful swimmers. My college coach prided himself on our team GPA being one of the highest in the country and I know that he initiated more than one conversation with swimmers that weren’t doing well in the classroom.
      A good coach knows how to get the most of their swimmers in and out of the water and I think that a good AD pays them to do just that.

    • #42369
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I would say a good high school coach is the one that should mold you into a good human, but a college coach is there to make you a better athlete.

    • #42370
      Low Tide
      Member

      Yup, you have to remember that in D3 academics plays probably a larger role in a students’ choice of college than swimming does (though of course not for everyone). Especially when my parents became involved in interviews with coaches, how that coach maintained the balance between swimming and academics became a hot topic.

      Our coach became very involved whenever any swimmers’ grades began to slip. Not only do I think he personally cared, but he has to think of losing that swimmer due to them losing scholarships (I came really close to losing mine freshman year) and parents pulling them, who are not too keen on paying $30k and above per year for their son to get C’s.

      I would say a good high school coach is the one that should mold you into a good human, but a college coach is there to make you a better athlete.

      In my experience it was the exact opposite (though I also became a much better athlete in college as well).

    • #42371

      What are the average salaries for D3 swimming coaches? A lot of coaches also teach phy ed, but I’m mainly just interested in what coaches make for coaching men’s and women’s swimming.

      What’s the lowest you’ve encountered?

      What’s the highest you’ve heard about?

      How much cash can an assistant coach expect to make?

    • #42372
      polarbear
      Member

      One of the upstate New York schools fired their coach afew years ago when she tok over a top 5 program and left it with no NCAA qualifiers after 5 years

    • #42373
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @t3hhammer wrote:

      mold athletes into successful people, not just successful swimmers. My college coach prided himself on our team GPA being one of the highest in the country

      What does GPA have to do with people being successful? Oh I know. Absolutely nothing.

    • #42374
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      It’s true GPA doesn’t relate to success that well.

    • #42375
      t3hhammer
      Member

      Cheadle,
      For someone that rips on people for being assholes, talk about calling the kettle black.
      In response, d3 athletes are students first. Their parents expect them to do their best, which in most people’s opinions means getting good grades. Are you right about GPA not always correlating to success? Probably. However, I would argue that if you aren’t doing well in the classroom that the stress of failure will negatively impact your swimming.

    • #42376
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      The A student tends to have more social issues than a B student. I am not saying that A students cannot succeed but to succeed there is alot of social aspects that are needed. Think of the best students you know. How do they get along with people?

    • #42377
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @t3hhammer wrote:

      Cheadle,
      For someone that rips on people for being assholes, talk about calling the kettle black.
      In response, d3 athletes are students first. Their parents expect them to do their best, which in most people’s opinions means getting good grades. Are you right about GPA not always correlating to success? Probably. However, I would argue that if you aren’t doing well in the classroom that the stress of failure will negatively impact your swimming.

      Chill out man, I was just being silly. And obviously defending my very average GPA. And I don’t rip people for being jerks. I rip them for going to Hope College.

    • #42378
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Williams, MIT, Hopkins, Amherst all have pretty high academic standards, and they seem to do alright in the pool!

      They sure do. I heard that Emory and Johns Hopkins are also decent schools πŸ˜›

      Hopkins has high standards too.

    • #42379
      Colbybr
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Williams, MIT, Hopkins, Amherst all have pretty high academic standards, and they seem to do alright in the pool!

      They sure do. I heard that Emory and Johns Hopkins are also decent schools πŸ˜›

      Hopkins has high standards too.

      Get out of here! Not any higher than Kenyon College though right?

    • #42380
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      I would say Hopkins is a little better than Kenyon or a lot.

    • #42381

      yah, what world shattering medical discoveries ever came out of Kenyon?

    • #42382
      Colbybr
      Member

      @BreakingTheSurface wrote:

      yah, what world shattering medical discoveries ever came out of Kenyon?

      The power rack?

    • #42383
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @BreakingTheSurface wrote:

      yah, what world shattering medical discoveries ever came out of Kenyon?

      The power rack?

      Nice.

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