Dara Torres?

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    • #12582
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      Anyone read about her comeback in splash?

      She’s just turned 40, and in April she went 21.91 and 48.34, which would’ve gotten her 4th and 5th respectively at this year’s D1’s…

      This would be her 5th olympics to boot.

      http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-spdaratorres03jun03,0,1209757.story?coll=sfla-sports-headlines

    • #37957
      swim5599
      Member

      She is amazing. Correct me if Im wrong but wasn’t she the oldest female swimmer to ever qualify for the Olympics when she did in 2000 at the age of 33. She is swimming faster then ever scy and we shall see where she is LCM in a couple of days I believe she is in a meet this weekend.

    • #37958
      lirpa
      Member

      24.9 and 54.61 for Dara LCM. Now she is a big time contender for an individual slot, not just as a relay member. It’s amazing to see what real talent is capable of.

    • #37959
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      wow
      sick times for a 20 year old, let alone a 40 year old

    • #37960
      Chris Knight
      Member

      That 100 is only .18 off her PR (54.43 to tie for 3rd in Sydney). This means she has an excellent chance to break 54.0 next year, heck maybe even this summer. This is great news, because, unlike many elite swimmers, Dara’s relay splits tend to be significantly faster than her flat start times. Having her on the two sprint relays will be huge. Let’s face it, in the last 4 years our ladies have not stepped up in those races to challenge the Aussies. I really believe that if they all split the equivalent of their PRs, they’d win both. Imagine this foursome: Natalie 53.5, Joyce 54.0, Weir 53.5, Dara 53.3 = 3:34.3. Or in the medley, how about Natalie 59.00, Hardy 1:06.00, Komisarz 57.2, Dara 53.3 = 3:55.5? Maybe having her will inspire her teammates to swim as fast in a relay as they do in individual events.

    • #37961
      fr0gman
      Member

      So I think this is a pretty darn astute group. Do you guys believe, not hope/wish, that she’s doing all of this clean? I really want to believe it, but there’s certainly some doubt in my mind. It’s not as if she wasn’t training at a high level before, and to be so fast in the sprints at this advanced age makes me wonder.

    • #37962
      swim5599
      Member

      Dara Torres has never even shown any reason why we should think she is not clean. I think the reason for the great swimming is more as a result of her great technique then anything else. If you can keep your strokes clean you can always go fast. She is motivated and that helps too. She would be a huge help to the American women.

    • #37963

      Stop being such a doubting Thomas. Dara Torres is a phenomenal athlete. Her genes are clearly ridiculous, and her technique has been referred to as the most efficient freestyle ever according to a Swimming World article. Can’t you just believe that its possible that every once in awhile, there is an athlete that is just something special? Look at Michael Phelps, or better yet look at that 40 year old guy, I think Dennis Baker is his name, who recently went an unrested 203 2fly LCM. Some people are just built for longevity, and clearly she is one of them.

    • #37964
      fr0gman
      Member

      Like I said, I really do want to believe that she and all of the stars in our sport are clean…but really, there’s no nagging doubt in the back of your mind? I mean there are a ton of products that would clearly help swimmers and to think that none of our stars are using them is I think, naive. Certainly we have an advantage over other endurance sports because superior technique and training can overcome superior strenght/fitness. BUT, once technique and training are optimized, drugs will make sombody better. Period.

      Great strokes, great physiology are one thing, everybody at that level has them, but to be going times at age 40 that are better than what she did at younger ages is a little eyebrow raising. We’re not talking about somebody who didn’t have access to great coaches and training environments when she was younger.

      Again, I hope she’s clean, I don’t know of anything to indicate that she’s not, but the little voice in my head says “I wonder…” I just wanted to know if anybody else hears those voices too. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

    • #37965
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Here are some things to consider about Dara regarding her being clean:

      1) She went a 25 low a month or so after delivering (a baby). If it is doping that is making her fast then she would have to have been doping while pregnant.

      2) When Dara was swimming in her “prime” in the 80’s she was also battling anorexia. This is pure conjecture, but how fast would she have been without that distraction? TO me, it isn’t that remarkable that she is considerably faster than she was then, in light of the anorexia.

    • #37966
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      @fr0gman wrote:

      Great strokes, great physiology are one thing, everybody at that level has them, but to be going times at age 40 that are better than what she did at younger ages is a little eyebrow raising. We’re not talking about somebody who didn’t have access to great coaches and training environments when she was younger.

      But how much more advanced training and coaching is now, 20+ years after her “prime”.

      No one thought sub 19 second 50’s would’ve been possible back in 1980, but 3 people under the mark by 2007?

    • #37967

      @fr0gman wrote:

      Again, I hope she’s clean, I don’t know of anything to indicate that she’s not, but the little voice in my head says “I wonder…” I just wanted to know if anybody else hears those voices too. ๐Ÿ˜ˆ

      At this time with all of the doping scandals (Barry Bonds, Jason Giambi, Floyd Landis, Ivan Basso, Jan Ulrich, Tim Montegomery, Justin Gatlin, etc) it is difficult not to look at great feats of accomplishment and just wonder. Many of today’s athlete’s are simply accused without any proof just because they have done something amazing (Lance Armstrong coming back from cancer). For so many it is hard to believe that with all of the hard work they have put in that someone can be so much better then them. For news, its better and it sells more papers if it is leaked that someone may not be clean (Armstong was accused of using a steroid in the tour because it was in a cream for saddle sours. Before using it he cleared it with the tour that it was ok, but because a very small trace, and I do mean a very small amount of it was found in a test, which was to be suspected, someone ran with it).

      Of the athlete I mentioned above, all of them have been at the top of their game (or sport). All of them have been covered in some sort of doping scandal. If it is one person, such as Ben Johnson in 1988, then everyone can say shame on them. If it seems like all of the top athletes are involved in some sort of scandal, then it looks as if the only way anyone can be good is by doping. Look at Cycling, can you look at it and not wonder if they are all doping?

      I will admit it did cross my mind about Torres. Because it is something we have not seen before, especially when most swimmers are done by 24. But training is changing and swimmers are still going strong (I saw a women at the Illinois Masters state meet go a 52 in the 100 free and I was like damn, Torres was probably a lot faster then this lady when they were in their 20’s so who knows). I remember watching Neil Walker in high school (which was sometime ago) break so many national records and he is still going. Wasn’t he just on the relay that broke the world record?

      What all of these scandals have done for sports, and for all sports, not just the ones these athletes are involved in, is to make us look not with wonder and amazement because of all the hard work that was put in to accomplish something truely amazing, but with a doubtful eye. They have taken away our Heros and replaced them with people we are skeptical about. They make us ask “I wonder if they are on anything?”

    • #37968
      Chris Knight
      Member

      I don’t think she is doping. She took so much crap during the run up to Sydney on this topic. Now, at 41, she is basically volunteering to go through it again, even worse in fact since she will set a record when (not if) she makes the team. Why would anybody sane do that to themselves if they were cheating? She has nothing to prove. While these times are incredible feats, the interviews that I have read and seen present a well-balanced, determined individual who simply loves to swim.

    • #37969
      99 Red
      Member

      Well, if you are asking the question “would anybody sane go through that?” I think the answer is yes, sane people would. How much does Barry Bonds make? How much did Lance Armstrong? Being at the top of the athletic world can be a very lucrative thing these days. Look at Phelps. Now, imagine how sponsors would LOVE to get behind a 40 year old swimmer? If she can do it, she will do VERY well for herself. I’m not saying she is or isn’t taking performance enhancers, but when you compare what she would get as a retiree with what she could potentially get as the feel good story of 2008, at least one answer to “why go through that?” is pretty apparent.

    • #37970
      swim5599
      Member

      If Dara is doping then we have to question a guy like Phelps who went out this year and just absolutely crushed WR’s. Its not fair to say either one of them is. Why can’t we just cheer her on and hope she does well.

    • #37971
      fr0gman
      Member

      Why can’t we just cheer her on and hope she does well.

      That’s how Major League baseball got into the situation it is in. Remember the home run chase in I think 98. Big Mac and Sammy Sosa? Nobody wanted to ask the obvious question. We live in a world where athlete doping is a reality. Look at baseball, look at the NFL, anybody who thinks NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB, bigtime boxing, bigtime soccer are clean sports are truely not looking closely. Most of those sports don’t even test for HGH. When they do steriod testing, the athletes are giving a warning. Anybody that tests positive is an idiot.

      You ask why aren’t people asking questions about Phelps, well, first of all, I guarentee that there are people doubting him. I’m not one of them, but most of the world views American athletes the same way Americans view the old East Germany and Chinese athletes.

      The reason that I think Phelps’ progression is clean is because he was the world’s best before he was physically mature, now that he’s getting stronger we’re seeing the fruition of great talent, hard work, and great genetics. The timing makes sense, he should be improving at his age. The same doesn’t ring true for Tores. Physiologically she shouldn’t be at her best at age 41. Like I’ve said in both previous posts, I hope with all of my heart that she’s doing it right, but it just makes me wonder…

    • #37972

      I have to disagree with your logic. Major League Baseball got into the situation it was in because it is a Money Making Sport. MLB and Bud Selig turned a blind eye to steroids because there was a ton of money to be made. Swimming is not really a money making sport at all. Sure during Olympic years it gets a little exposure, but even Phelps doesn’t bring in anywhere near the money of a McGuire, Bonds or Sosa; and he wouldn’t make that kind of money even if he had a really legitimate rival.
      Torres is not doping. I’m all for testing, but until she comes up positive I say Go Dara.

    • #37973
      fr0gman
      Member

      I have to disagree with your logic. Major League Baseball got into the situation it was in because it is a Money Making Sport. MLB and Bud Selig turned a blind eye to steroids because there was a ton of money to be made.

      The American public’s and media’s attitude had nothing to do with the fact that Baseball is a money maker. We just sat back and took in the show. As sports fans we allowed it because we just wanted to be entertained. We just wanted to “cheer her on and hope that she does well.” That was my point.

      You are correct that the money making sports turn a blind eye and impliment testing that is a joke because they really don’t want to catch anyobdy. The NFL is the best example. They’re so popular and so profitable now that they don’t care if their athletes are dirty, they just care that they don’t get caught. If I were a betting man, I’d guess that more than half of the guys in the NFL are on banned substances.

    • #37974
      Low Tide
      Member

      Amateur athletes can be just as competitive as pro athletes, despite there being no money in it. Brent Lang once told me that in the ’88 Olympics they anonymously asked the athletes if they could take a pill which would guarantee them a gold medal, but would kill them within the year, would they take it?

      A full one third answered they would.

    • #37975
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah until she comes up as using something that is banned I am just going to continue to be amazed by what she is doing. When she makes the olympic team and medals in the 50 will this be the greatest accomplishment in swimming history? I don’t know but its got to be up there.

    • #37976
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      But this isn’t he NFL, MLB or NHL etc.

      This is USA/FINA swimming, correct me if I’m wrong, but FINA and USA swimming have some of the more stringent testing rules in the world. Much more than USA Track, and waaaaaaay more than Major League Sports.

      So, as soon as Dara hits, say, a World Cup circuit, Long Course Nationals, or OLY trials, she’ll probably have to pee in a cup.

      I’m not 100% sure about the rules for national or world cup meets, but I know at NC’s they make each heat winner and one random person from each heat test. If the rules are some what similar, I’d have no doubt she’ll win a heat in the 50 or 100 sometime between now and then, right?

    • #37977
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @fr0gman wrote:

      Physiologically she shouldn’t be at her best at age 41.

      Perhaps not convincing to you, but as I said she was anorexic at a younger age so there is plenty of reason why she would be he best at her current age (I would add that she isn’t as fast as she was 7 years ago…)

    • #37978
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      Dara went 24.53 tonight to win the 50 by a whopping .7!

    • #37979

      Must have been those big bug eye googles she always wears.

    • #37980

      Dara Torres has no reason to be doubted. What she is doing isamazing and we should all be glad to be around to hear of her feats.

      Her success at her age is not unprecedented: Merlene Ottey, a Jamaican Track sprinter born in 1960, was an Olympic Medalist at the 1980, 1984, 1992, 1996 and 2000 games, the last of which she was 40. She was also a World Championships gold medalist at the age of 35 in 1995.

      Dara has far bigger fish to fry than cheating in swimming. She is a former world record-holder, a multiple Olympic Gold medalist, NCAA Champion, etc etc etc. Far more important than all of that, however, is that she is a mother. What mother would risk her own health at this stage of her young child’s development, when she wants to live a long life as a loving and wonderful parent? I’m sure she would walk away from swimming (and any attendant doping) in .01 second if it meant that any negative consequences would take the same amount of time away from her child. She simply has no incentive to be anything other a competitor and a loving mother. And isn’t that enough?

    • #37981
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      yeah
      dara is getting quite the bashing on the US Masters swimming forums
      I guess all the old folks are just jealous
      Collegeswimming.com has naysayers too

    • #37982
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @CaseBrst10 wrote:

      yeah
      dara is getting quite the bashing on the US Masters swimming forums
      I guess all the old folks are just jealous
      Collegeswimming.com has naysayers too

      As a small contributor to that forum, I resent that comment!

    • #37983
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      do you resent or RESEMBLE that comment? haha

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