Criteria for being a sport

Forums Conferences Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Criteria for being a sport

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    • #12202

      On the subject of diving, do you think that it is an activity, game or sport? what constitutes a sport from an activity or game and why? In my opinion a sport is something athletic that’s outcome is not determined by a judge (gymnastics). this is not to say that gymnastics is not athletic, cuz it obviously is. For this reason i see diving, much like gymnastics is an athletic activity. what do you think about diving, gymnastics, football, nascar, or even poker?

    • #33644

      Well some would say that a sport is something that you can’t say that you play. You can play baseball or you can play poker or you can play basketball. That makes those things games. If you can play it then it is a game. You can’t play swimming and you can’t play running so they are sports.

    • #33645

      Oh fun, semantics. Replying to Procrastinator, one certainly cannot play diving (well one can, but typically if one tries to play diving, pain and nasty welts occur that if on the body of a 7-year-old, would send child protection services in).

      As for the original topic, I do agree that diving is more of an activity–the subjectivity of judging takes away its claim at true sporthood (A desticntion that I would argue belongs only to athletic pursuits like swimming, running and wrestling that require no outside equipments).

    • #33646
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      Diving is absolutely a sport. It is an athletic, competitive endeavor. So is gymnastics. So is ice skating. So is swimming. Baseball, football, hockey and basketball are also sports, as are golf, tennis and raquetball. However, “Swimming and Diving” makes as much sense as “Hockey and Ice Dancing.” Just because they take place in the same building does not mean they need to be lumped together. They don’t play a lacrosse game during halftime of a football game, giving the winner of the lax game a touchdown. If they dove into a foam pit, would it be “Gymnastics and Swimming?”

    • #33647
      DonCheadle
      Member

      If there were an athletic competition a good diver would, on average, dominate a good swimmer in several disciplines. Agility, flexibility, lower body strength, core body strength. If I know nothing about two people accept they were both d3 All-Americans, one in swimming and one in diving, I am picking the diver for my pick-up basketball game.

      (Keep in mind, a lot of D3 divers are, ummm, not really divers.)

    • #33648

      I feel that diving, gymnastics and other things that require a judge to not be a sport. The best participant may not win. It is up to the judges as to who wins. These to me are “Arts.” Much like painting.
      I am not discounting the physical ability needed to do these things, but if the best person may not win, it can not be a sport. Baseball, basketball and football all are sports. a Referee is not needed during the course of play. All they need to do is say start and finish. Swimming and running and wrestling are for sure sports by my criteria.

    • #33649

      The best person/team may not win in Football, baseball, swimming, Track and field. Example. Remember all the Dave or Dan comercials for the decatholon leading up to the Bacelona (?) Olympics. They were the best two in the world, one does not qualify and the other wasn’t even close to medaling because of injury.

      My high school team, the year after I graduated, did not repeat at the state meet because the last relay was DQ. They would have won the meet by about 30 or 40 points, but eneded up losing it by about 10. I have seen the video, an all though it was a fast start, the swimmer did not jump.

      Boise State this year anyone. They were supposed to no where near as good as Oklahoma.

      We compete to try to see who will win, but the best does not always win.

      Muhamad Ali is argued as one of the greatest boxers off all time, but he did not win all the time, he had some losses. Hey, Rocky was not the best, but he had more heart.

      As for activity, sport or game. Everything mentioned is an activity. As for if it is a sport or game…… really, who cares. All you really want to do is see what you are made of, measure yourself against others, and line up out there and say “I AM!” – Rocky Balboa

    • #33650
      The Treat
      Member

      @Jaydub swimmer wrote:

      I feel that diving, gymnastics and other things that require a judge to not be a sport. The best participant may not win. It is up to the judges as to who wins. These to me are “Arts.” Much like painting.
      I am not discounting the physical ability needed to do these things, but if the best person may not win, it can not be a sport. Baseball, basketball and football all are sports. a Referee is not needed during the course of play. All they need to do is say start and finish. Swimming and running and wrestling are for sure sports by my criteria.

      don’t baseball, basketball, football, swimming, wrestling all require judges? couldn’t they affect the outcome just as much as in diving or gymnastics with penalties, DQ’s, calling bad strikes/balls, horrible fouls. it’s the exact same thing. there are actual rules for how many points you take off for a mistake in diving and gymnastics. yes a judge could skew one set of results, but if they continually mess up, they will be fired (just like in the other sports). dont be an idiot just cause you dont like diving or gymnastics. i dont particularly like gymnastics (but diving has grown on me because we had some good guys who were divers).

      why does it matter if you think it’s a sport or not? should they be combined? its debatable, but they are, so deal with it. we dive into the water, so they are related. yes it’s a bit of a stretch, but where else would diving belong? there arent enough diving events for it to survive on it’s own. this is why track and field are together. what the hell does running have to do with the javelin or the hammer throw? nothing, but no one is going to go see an athletic event that has JUST a shot put (besides family), so it’s lumped in with running events.

    • #33651
      swim5599
      Member

      Sure it is a sport, I wish it was scored separately, but that will never change

    • #33652
      middie07
      Member

      The easiest way for me to define what a sport is is to name things that almost make the cut, but don’t quite do it. Such things would be bowling and golf (close, but anything you can be obese and good at doesn’t count), dance, and competitive cheerleading. Diving and gymnastics, subjective though they may be, are difficult enough and demand enough athletic ability (either genetic or trained) to count. And obviously being televised on ESPN doesn’t count, because dog shows and poker are not sports. Most of us probably have some notion of what a sport is that is unlikely to change, no matter what anyone else tells us. So we can all agree that diving slows down meets and makes spectators leave, but whether or not it’s a sport is everyone’s personal choice.

    • #33653

      “dont be an idiot just cause you dont like diving or gymnastics.”

      I thought this to be an opinion question. What’s with the name calling?

      And on the Football team not winning because of injury, they weren’t the best team if their best players were hurt and couldn’t play.

    • #33654
      The Treat
      Member

      @Jaydub swimmer wrote:

      “dont be an idiot just cause you dont like diving or gymnastics.”

      I thought this to be an opinion question. What’s with the name calling?

      And on the Football team not winning because of injury, they weren’t the best team if their best players were hurt and couldn’t play.

      in my opinion, your arguments for why diving was not a sport was idiotic. you said that

      @The idiot wrote:

      Baseball, basketball and football all are sports. a Referee is not needed during the course of play. All they need to do is say start and finish. Swimming and running and wrestling are for sure sports by my criteria.

      if you make that statement, i will call you an idiot. a referee is not needed during the course of play? what? are you serious? football has 7 officials on the field at one time (and now one upstairs in the studio to review plays). baseball has an umpire at every single base. basketball has 3 referees on the court. can you honestly say your argument was not idiotic?

    • #33655

      Treat, can’t speak for J-dub, but I think the point was the referees are not the basis for scoring in those sports. You don’t get and extra run if the umpire says you have a nice swing. The TD isn’t worth 8 points if the catch was one handed. And you don’t get time taken off your race if the ref decides you dove in nicely with little splash.

      Sure a ref can screw you over, call a DQ, or something like that. But there is a difference between referee and judge. A ref makes sure everyone participates equally on an equal level to decide the outcome on their own. A judge decides who is best.

      I think diving is a sport, and agree 100% with Crunchy. Just because swimming and diving are both water sports, why combine the scores? Sure you could have both at the same meet, but keep the winners separate. We swim with chicks all the time, do we combine scores though?

      The track and field combination is fine with me because each event measures a persons physical ability (running, throwing, jumping, etc)… not their from (dancing, diving, tumbling, etc).

      I think that anything that takes some sort of physical ability or movement is a sport. Poker and Trivial Pursuit do not require anything physical. And please don’t try to argue that looking at your hand or speaking requires anything physical. But darts, bowling, NASCAR, etc, do require physically doing something… just as diving does. So I’d say they are all sports.

    • #33656
      N Dynamite
      Member

      Apparently he does not agree with Mike Holmgren on whether the best team won Super Bowl XL. Or Dan Rooney (Steelers owner) on whether the best team won between Atlanta and Pittsburgh this year. Have you ever seen a wrestling match? How do you think points get awarded in that “sport”? The judge decides if you get a point – there’s no goal line, no goal, no finish line, no bases to touch. Granted it’s usually pretty obvious when there’s a takedown, but sometimes it can be debatable. When you say only athletic competition that cannot be decided by an official is considered a sport then you leave out baseball, basketball, football, wrestling, swimming, boxing, and many others. On the other hand, by your definition, bowling is a sport – you either knock down the pins or not – and don’t tell me there’s no skill involved – I suck at it. I agree with Treat – if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck call it a duck. You said something idiotic. It is what it is. Deal with it. Gosh.

      By the way – I agree with CP – they’re all sports (except poker and dog shows…) Come to think of it, I have a hard time with NASCAR also – not sure how driving a car makes you an athlete – it’s not like they even get out to fill their own car with gas…

    • #33657
      The Treat
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Treat, can’t speak for J-dub, but I think the point was the referees are not the basis for scoring in those sports. You don’t get and extra run if the umpire says you have a nice swing. The TD isn’t worth 8 points if the catch was one handed. And you don’t get time taken off your race if the ref decides you dove in nicely with little splash.

      Sure a ref can screw you over, call a DQ, or something like that. But there is a difference between referee and judge. A ref makes sure everyone participates equally on an equal level to decide the outcome on their own. A judge decides who is best.

      I think diving is a sport, and agree 100% with Crunchy. Just because swimming and diving are both water sports, why combine the scores? Sure you could have both at the same meet, but keep the winners separate. We swim with chicks all the time, do we combine scores though?

      The track and field combination is fine with me because each event measures a persons physical ability (running, throwing, jumping, etc)… not their from (dancing, diving, tumbling, etc).

      I think that anything that takes some sort of physical ability or movement is a sport. Poker and Trivial Pursuit do not require anything physical. And please don’t try to argue that looking at your hand or speaking requires anything physical. But darts, bowling, NASCAR, etc, do require physically doing something… just as diving does. So I’d say they are all sports.

      i know what you mean, but like i said, they have criteria for how many tenths of a point to take off for each mistake and for poor position and all that stuff. sure it’s not an exact thing b/c they have to decide whether it was a fault or not, but it’s not like they’re pulling it out of thin air.

      no a referee or umpire cannot give you extra points for a home run, but they can change the outcome of the game JUST as much. strikes and balls are the most fundemental part of baseball and it’s left up to the umpire to judge whether it was in the strike zone. there is holding on almost every single play in football, but the official has to judge whether that hold warrents a flag or not. you can call it a referee or an umpire or an official, but in the end, they’re making judgement on what to call.

    • #33658

      I agree refs make judgment calls. All rulings are essentially judgments. But again, they are doing that out of fairness. They are making competitors follow a set of rules.

      -Making sure the other pitcher throws the ball close enough for a batter to hit it, or be penalized for not doing so.
      -Making sure a lineman does not hold a defender so as to not cheat.

      I think these are referees making sure that all players adhere to the rules. Sure it is all subjective, but again, the ref is not ultimately deciding a winner, the score or time or distance is.

      Swimming has referees or “officials” to keep the race fair. Diving has judges to rate performance. I think there is a difference.

      In the words of Ron Burgandy “Agree to disagree.”

      And in the words of Judge Reinhold “My name is Judge.”

    • #33659
      The Treat
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      I agree refs make judgment calls. All rulings are essentially judgments. But again, they are doing that out of fairness. They are making competitors follow a set of rules.

      -Making sure the other pitcher throws the ball close enough for a batter to hit it, or be penalized for not doing so.
      -Making sure a lineman does not hold a defender so as to not cheat.

      I think these are referees making sure that all players adhere to the rules. Sure it is all subjective, but again, the ref is not ultimately deciding a winner, the score or time or distance is.

      Swimming has referees or “officials” to keep the race fair. Diving has judges to rate performance. I think there is a difference.

      In the words of Ron Burgandy “Agree to disagree.”

      And in the words of Judge Reinhold “My name is Judge.”

      when in rome

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