Carthage Invite 11/30 – 12/1

Forums Conferences Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Carthage Invite 11/30 – 12/1

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    • #12844

      As far as I can tell, both Gustavus and St. Olaf are getting ready for their December meet at Carthage.

      A few questions for the forum:
      Are any other MIAC teams going that I’m not aware of?

      Who is geared to get solid B-cuts at Carthage?

      This meet will be the first championship format between Olaf and GAC where depth plays a larger role. Who comes out on top between these two teams? (If I remember right, two years ago GAC finished first with Olaf third and last year GAC was second with Olaf third but MIAC titles are split 1 – 1)

      Any MIAC swimmers to keep an eye on?

      Will there be live results?

    • #41093

      I tried to find a list of who would be there, but could not.

      I think UST, SJU, and Mac are all at the Riverfalls Invite (at the U of M). St. Mary’s and Hamline are at the St. Mary’s Invite.

      Any decent teams from other conferences usually go to Carthage? I think back and the day when GAC went to Lawrence, we swam against Wisconsin Green Bay (D-1 I think), and usually had a close meet.

      Anyone from GAC or Olaf (or recent grads), know how much rest/taper each team has? I know Olaf usually puts up times at this meet that are similar to what they go at conference.

      I think there will be a good battle between Biesecker and Bently in the breaststroke. Whoever swims better here could make the relay at conference, and then of course make nationals. If both do well, Hauck could split them up on the 200 and 400 like he did with Meyer and Kukla last year in the back (getting both to nats with their B-cut swims I think).

      What has my life become? I actually did research to post on a D-3 site.

    • #41094
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I would be surprised if they rested more than a few days for this meet. It seems weird to sacrifice a week of training in order to swim well at Carthage but that’s just me.

      I wouldn’t overlook Reinhart in the breastroke battle. He will go under 1:00 in the 100 this year, which would certainly put him in the mix. He may be better in the 200.

    • #41095
      Look Up
      Member

      Ha, Biesecker and Bently…that’s a good one. I’m going to assume you meant Reinhart. That will in fact be a good match up. Can’t wait to see how it turns out.

    • #41096

      @Look Up wrote:

      Ha, Biesecker and Bently…that’s a good one. I’m going to assume you meant Reinhart. That will in fact be a good match up. Can’t wait to see how it turns out.

      You are correct…. I put the wrong “ie” – “ei” name in there.

      Getting an idea of how the freshman do rested at a meet like this might help in figuring out relays at conference. For the older guys, it is just a chance to get an A or B cut. Then brag about it at the bar over Christmas break with your high school buddies who have no idea what you are talking about.

    • #41097
      wonderboy33
      Member

      That’s right, I didn’t swim for a D3 superpower. Competition for relays was virtually non-existent. The only thing we had to worry about was whether an unnamed swimmer’s fake? shoulder injury would hold out long enough for him to complete more than 3000 yards a practice. Speedo Mini-Chub will get the reference. What do I know about swimming in november anyways?

    • #41098
      swim5599
      Member

      Well Westby popped off 1:51 flat last year in the IM, so I am pretty sure the Olaf guys were significantly rested. I would expect some really good swims out of a lot of guys at this meet.

    • #41099

      For Olaf, I would think Meyer and Koch have good shots at getting B cuts. Westby I bet gets an A cut in the Fly and IM… MAYBE in the breast. He was a 58 already this year leading off some boner relay at the Northfield invite.

      For GAC, I think the Daves and Hanson could bust out some B cuts in the 500 (do they swim the mile at this thing?). Stewart probably could get B cuts in the 500, 200 fly, 100 Fr, and 200 Fr I think. I doubt he gets any A cuts, but who knows.

      Am I missing anyone else who has a shot at a B cut? Ziegler in the 200 fly has a decent shot. Any other Ole’s? Bateman maybe?

      And where has Kari Byron been!?!? He/she always seems to have some input on this stuff.

    • #41100
      swim5599
      Member

      Didn’t Westby go 57 plus at the Minn grand prix?

    • #41101
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I think we’re overestimating the importance of getting B cuts now as I think a few things have been established. Number one, the conference meet is the biggest meet in the history of mankind and everyone swims fast there. That’s a proven fact.

      Number two, from what I understand, every swimmer will be tapered at conference, with the possible exception of Westby. If a kid gets a B cut, are we then thinking that they won’t rest for conference? I’m guessing they will rest but I know I’m going out on a limb. Is this just an opportunity to have the B cut in hand in case they choke at conference? Maybe this is another opportunity to tell your drinking buddies that you got a B cut and have them look at you with that glassy stare.

      Please advise. I’m sitting on the edge of my seat with anticipation.

    • #41102
      silentp
      Member

      @wonderboy33 wrote:

      I think we’re overestimating the importance of getting B cuts now as I think a few things have been established. Number one, the conference meet is the biggest meet in the history of mankind and everyone swims fast there. That’s a proven fact.

      Number two, from what I understand, every swimmer will be tapered at conference, with the possible exception of Westby. If a kid gets a B cut, are we then thinking that they won’t rest for conference? I’m guessing they will rest but I know I’m going out on a limb.

      Good points. If you are resting for conferences anyway, B cuts now mean very little, except to pick up chicks. Kenyon is about the only team in the country where the majority of their swimmers don’t do a full taper for conferences… some swimmers from there don’t even do a full taper at midseason, just enough to get cuts (this is also done by several big time D1 schools, such as Texas… especially Texas since they don’t really care about their “conference meet”).

      Sorry for going off on that tangent, but Westby will have to rest for conferences unless they get relays in at Carthage (a free relay also, not just medlies), which isn’t likely.

    • #41103

      Not sure, Westby might have been a 57… I was just looking at the top MIAC times and he wasn’t listed. Either way, he could maybe get an A cut in the breast.

      As for getting B cuts, I agree that it means nothing. Just pointing out that guys might get them this weekend if they are in fact resting a bit. And yes, the “I got my B-cut at Carthage this year” t-shirt is sure to be the hottest gift this holiday season.

    • #41104
      wonderboy33
      Member

      I wish I could be there so I could wear my “I was at the Carthage Meet and all I saw was Wii and Sky get some lousy B Cuts” shirt. Don’t get me wrong, I love B Cuts. If it weren’t for them, I would have never been able to spend more time with Carl Stevens.

    • #41105
      openwater
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Not sure, Westby might have been a 57… I was just looking at the top MIAC times and he wasn’t listed. Either way, he could maybe get an A cut in the breast.

      As for getting B cuts, I agree that it means nothing. Just pointing out that guys might get them this weekend if they are in fact resting a bit. And yes, the “I got my B-cut at Carthage this year” t-shirt is sure to be the hottest gift this holiday season.

      Westby was 57.69 in prelims at the Grand Prix meet.
      Also 50.35 in the Fly.
      and 1:54.43 in the IM

    • #41106

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      As for getting B cuts, I agree that it means nothing.

      Though I do agree that if you just barely make the B standard that it means very little, I think that it’s closer to the A than the B it means a little more. The NCAA invites are sent to all the A cuts first, and then B cuts are taken to fill the meet. So realistically a B cut could get you a free trip to NCAAs which I would hardly count as meaning nothing.

    • #41107
      The Pork
      Member

      I think most people are onto that, not to call you dumb or anything rustie (I am being serious too, I promise), but I think the point trying to be made is that it’s kind of pointless to do a full shave and taper and waste a lot of the training that has been put in so far just to barely get a B cut that won’t assure you a spot at nats. If that B cut is only good enough to put you on the line, then you’re still going to have to do a full taper at the end of the season. Is this the point so many of you are trying to make?

    • #41108
      SeekUp
      Member
    • #41109
      swim5599
      Member

      a couple of interesting swims for Westby the 200 breast and the 50 free. What a battle in the 200 breast that is going to be with schranck.

    • #41110

      Why would Westby not swim the 100 fly or breast? Are Hauck+1 trying to have him swim events he’s not the clear favorite in?

      I’m excited to see how the GAC distance swimmers do not being the clear favorites. Could the Daves rip off some low 16s in the mile chasing the Lewis guys?

    • #41111

      Most amazing entry I found was in the 200 Fly:

      1 Jacobson, Josh FR Gustavus 22.30 D3A

      Whoops!

      And what’s with Wesby swimming the 50 free so much lately? At the beginning of the season I once thought it would be a very smart move for the Hauck’s to put him in the 50 to steal some points from Gustavus, but quickly dismissed it thinking he’d score better in the strokes and IMs. Maybe there is more to my original thought that I had thought….

    • #41112

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Hauck+1

      Gold

    • #41113

      I was looking over the heat sheet again tonight and noticed that another cut has been added to the list. The list now includes:

      D3A
      D2A
      Q-07
      D2B
      D3B

      What is the Q-07 cut? First guess makes me think it was the qualifying time to make it back for finals at the Carthage Invite last year, but the 07 part throws me off. If said Q-06 I’d say I was onto something. Anybody know for sure? How about Earhardt? I know he checks this forum.

    • #41114
      N Dynamite
      Member

      It’s the time it took to Qualify for D3 NCAA Championships in 2007

    • #41115

      @SeekUp wrote:

      heat sheet is up: http://www.carthageswims.com/results/

      Anyone know if this is being updated live? I thought the meet started at 9:00am?

      I planned to spend all morning watching live updates and thinking of whether the Twins should trade Santana straight up for Westby, or ask Olaf to throw in Reinhart as well. Twins need breast strokers… literally.

    • #41116

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Anyone know if this is being updated live? I thought the meet started at 9:00am?

      I planned to spend all morning watching live updates and thinking of whether the Twins should trade Santana straight up for Westby, or ask Olaf to throw in Reinhart as well. Twins need breast strokers… literally.

      Chapel,

      You’ve been on fire, lately.

      I’m mostly excited to see how Skylar and Whitaker perform. Last year was Skylar’s breakout meet. He swam about as fast at Carthage as he did at conference.

      How is Ben Hanson going to finish his stellar d3 career? Could it start at Carthage?

    • #41117
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      results are now posting, GAC guys swam AWESOME in the 500!

    • #41118
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      And Westby went 1:53.19 in the IM. That’s pretty good, right?

    • #41119

      Seems like the Ole’s not named Westby are all swimming at or around their seed time. So I’m guessing Olaf didn’t rest.

      GAC on the other hand has had some decent drops thus far… In the 500 at least.

      Anyone know the status on who rested, and who didn’t?

    • #41120

      Nice 46 by Koch in the 100 free. It looks like his summer training is paying off.

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Seems like the Ole’s not named Westby are all swimming at or around their seed time. So I’m guessing Olaf didn’t rest.

      GAC on the other hand has had some decent drops thus far… In the 500 at least.

      Anyone know the status on who rested, and who didn’t?

    • #41121
      Monti
      Member

      solid 7:01 from the GAC men in the 800 Free Relay and without Stewart on it.

    • #41122

      A few things I noted from today:

      Olaf beat GAC in the 200 FR by over a second. This hurts my conference predictions.

      The 500 results for finals are missing, which makes me angry.

      GACs top breaststroker is 1:03.5 right now, also not good for conference.

      Koch biffed finals to take 4th when he was top seed by 6-tenths. Was anyone there to see if he had a bad turn/start, goggles fill up with water, etc.?

      I wish they had splits posted for the relays…

      Tomorrow looks like another good day of swimming.

    • #41123

      GAC only lost to Olaf by .35 in the 200 FR, didn’t they?

      I’m not too worried about a mid-season 103 in the 100 breast. It is not like GAC has any in-season 59 guys. A 103 could easily taper down to a a 59 high… which is pretty decent. Med relays probably will not lose to Carleton unless they get a really good flyer.

      O’Keefe has caught (maybe surpassed) Bateman it looks like in the distance events.

      Murrell has a solid 200.

      Skyy Dave is on fire this season.

      Has Hanson always been good at the 200 Fly?

      David Manley and Nate Bentley should be cops in Miami with those sweet names.

    • #41124
      lirpa
      Member

      Westby 200 breast MIAC all-time record. Not bad for an extra event.

    • #41125

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      GAC only lost to Olaf by .35 in the 200 FR, didn’t they?

      3 St. Olaf ‘A’ 1:28.77 1:26.06
      1) Westby, Nelson 2) Koch, Jake
      3) Bentley, Nate 4) Murrell, Luke
      4 Gustavus ‘A’ 1:27.60 1:27.26
      1) Stewart, Matt 2) Winter, Jonah
      3) Auyeung, Clement 4) Wakefield, Tyler

      They lost by 1.2 seconds.

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Has Hanson always been good at the 200 Fly?

      Not that I’m aware of. This would give GAC a multitude of potentieal top 8 flyers at MIACs: Hanson, Ziegler, Cuevas, Elenkiwich, Horn, etc…

      @lirpa wrote:

      Westby 200 breast MIAC all-time record. Not bad for an extra event.

      Incredible. Just incredible.

    • #41126

      Highlights from Saturday:

      Stewart 1:43.59 and Hanson 1:43.94 in the 200, that’s pretty quick for this time on not much rest and no shave.

      Westby repeating his 2:02. in the 200 breast.

      Meyer posted a 51.89 in the 100 back. Could he challenge Hagemeyer’s record of 50.6 come Conference time?

      GACs sprinters (not counting Stewart and Hanson who are distance/stroke than can sprint) currently consist of nobody under 22 or 48 for the 50 and 100, respectively. I could be wrong here, if so please show me a result where this is not the case.

      Olaf destroyed GAC in the 400 FR. Granted there are no names posted, so GAC may have bagged it, but I doubt that. Olaf comes in at 3:08.52, which is an OK time for them. Astonishingly, GAC posted a 3:13.23 which is 13 seconds slower than they went at Nationals. A 3:13.23 is averaging 48.3 per person….. Not looking good for MIACs.

    • #41127

      @Rustie Gustie wrote:

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      GAC only lost to Olaf by .35 in the 200 FR, didn’t they?

      3 St. Olaf ‘A’ 1:28.77 1:26.06
      1) Westby, Nelson 2) Koch, Jake
      3) Bentley, Nate 4) Murrell, Luke
      4 Gustavus ‘A’ 1:27.60 1:27.26
      1) Stewart, Matt 2) Winter, Jonah
      3) Auyeung, Clement 4) Wakefield, Tyler

      They lost by 1.2 seconds.

      My bad, was looking at the wrong line.

      Did Westby and Meyer taper for this meet, and the rest of the team not? I could see Hauck +1 wanting those two to get their cuts now so that we can debate whether either should taper for conference again.

    • #41128
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Manley had some good swims as well. Could he have been tapered and not Reinhart?

    • #41129
      The Pork
      Member

      I know that Nelson and Adam were tapered, as well as a number of other swimmers. I can’t say for sure if the whole team was, but a good number of them were and put up some pretty good personal times. I gotta say I’m liking what I’m seeing right now out of St. Olaf and it makes me think that conference is gonna be a lot closer than everyone thinks. Granted, conference is still about 3 months away, but despite all the hype that everyone gave GAC, St. Olaf’s depth is really stepping it up. I just hope they keep it up at the end of the season.

    • #41130
      Monti
      Member

      @The Pork wrote:

      I know that Nelson and Adam were tapered, as well as a number of other swimmers. I can’t say for sure if the whole team was, but a good number of them were and put up some pretty good personal times. I gotta say I’m liking what I’m seeing right now out of St. Olaf and it makes me think that conference is gonna be a lot closer than everyone thinks. Granted, conference is still about 3 months away, but despite all the hype that everyone gave GAC, St. Olaf’s depth is really stepping it up. I just hope they keep it up at the end of the season.

      That Raecher (my spelling sucks and I don’t care) kid from Olaf had some monster drops. What his deal? How does someone drop 8 seconds in the 200 free when rested? Just not trying during dual meets? Only cares about bigger meets?

    • #41131
      Look Up
      Member

      Maybe he was injured or had some other commitments at olaf that kept him from training hard at Olaf till recently.

      Either way, his return is a huge boost to Olaf.

    • #41132

      @The Pork wrote:

      I know that Nelson and Adam were tapered, as well as a number of other swimmers. I can’t say for sure if the whole team was, but a good number of them were and put up some pretty good personal times. I gotta say I’m liking what I’m seeing right now out of St. Olaf and it makes me think that conference is gonna be a lot closer than everyone thinks. Granted, conference is still about 3 months away, but despite all the hype that everyone gave GAC, St. Olaf’s depth is really stepping it up. I just hope they keep it up at the end of the season.

      Is this typical for Olaf? Why would they not taper everyone? I could see just tapering Meyer and Westby to get A cuts, but it seemed like half the guys had good drops, and half didn’t.

      Westby and Meyer were already favorites coming into the year, so their awesome times don’t change anything really. Any examples of guys on Olaf who might not have been noticed that are now looking good to score well at conference? Like O’Keefe showed he could move up, any others?

    • #41133

      @The Pork wrote:

      I know that Nelson and Adam were tapered, as well as a number of other swimmers. I can’t say for sure if the whole team was, but a good number of them were and put up some pretty good personal times. I gotta say I’m liking what I’m seeing right now out of St. Olaf and it makes me think that conference is gonna be a lot closer than everyone thinks. Granted, conference is still about 3 months away, but despite all the hype that everyone gave GAC, St. Olaf’s depth is really stepping it up. I just hope they keep it up at the end of the season.

      If Westby he tapered for Carthage, my guess is that he will not do a full taper for conference.

      1:50.5 200 IM. That’s fast.

    • #41134
      The Pork
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Any examples of guys on Olaf who might not have been noticed that are now looking good to score well at conference? Like O’Keefe showed he could move up, any others?

      Erik Witzel had some solid drops in both the butterflies, as did Luke Money, and if they can improve on those times at conference will add some much needed points in those events.

    • #41135
      Look Up
      Member

      Did any of the Gusties rest?

    • #41136

      Composite results are up:

      http://gustavus.edu/athletics/msw/archives/2007-08/tyr.htm

      GAC lost to Olaf by 200 pts…. Not a good sign for MIACs.

    • #41137

      @Look Up wrote:

      Did any of the Gusties rest?

      They typically do a 3 – 7 day drop taper w/o a shave for this meet.

    • #41138
      swim5599
      Member

      Can anyone tell me how Stewart did at this meet last year? I am just interested in where he is vs last year.

    • #41139
      openwater
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Can anyone tell me how Stewart did at this meet last year? I am just interested in where he is vs last year.

      Here is the link to last year’s results.

      http://gustavus.edu/athletics/wsw/archives/2006-07/tyr.htm

      500 – identical time
      200 Fly faster this year
      100 Fly faster last year
      50 free last year, 200 free this year

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