Calvin’s New Facility

Forums Conferences Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association Calvin’s New Facility

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    • #12006
      Psimon3
      Member

      This was just posted on up at Collegeswimming.com. Looks pretty impressive

      http://www.collegeswimming.com/?show=news&id=2602

    • #31083
      quacker
      Member

      Hopefully a facility like that could make other MIAA schools want to improve as well.

      But it probably won’t happen, I’m just saying, I wish it would.

    • #31084

      @quacker wrote:

      Hopefully a facility like that could make other MIAA schools want to improve as well.

      But it probably won’t happen, I’m just saying, I wish it would.

      It should at least allow for an on-campus league meet, though. Or so one would think.

    • #31085
      silentp
      Member

      This is awesome and it sounds like a great pool too, not just building a 50 meter without putting thought into it. Congrats to Calvin!

      In addition to hopefully holding MIAAs on an MIAA campus, instead of a high school, it may also significantly improve recruiting at Calvin, which is already very good.

    • #31086
      teemohtay
      Member

      Is that what you would call the Emory Effect? I remember when we used to beat them in dual meets. Then a couple years after they built that sweet new complex they started thumping us. We stopped swimming them and the rest is history.

    • #31087
      DonCheadle
      Member

      We would thump emory because their coach, God bless him, didn’t give a shirt about winning. It was pretty sweet, we would stomp them and then they would buy us pizza at Athens pizza.

    • #31088
      silentp
      Member

      Maybe it will get K to build their new pool sooner than previously planned.

    • #31089

      Cheadle,
      I assure you that Peter Smith DID care about winning. In the 1990’s, when K would drive down to swim us at Emory, we would usually be coming off our December shave, studying for exams, and in general, not focused on swimming. So, K would usually come away with a good win at that meet. At least on the men’s side, SOMETIMES. The women’s team at Emory placed 5th, 4th 4th and top 20 at NCAA’s from 1991-1994, so they weren’t stomped too many times at dual meets. During that time, Peter was the women’s NCAA Coach of the Year in 1992 or 1993, and was the conference coach of the year all four years.

      Peter is one of the classiest and most well-respected coaches and AD’s inthe country. He certainly cared about winning, and let us have it when we didn’t swim well. Where you might be confusing a lack of a drive to win is his desire to make the experience meaningful for everyone involved. He was helping K out by fitting their meet in on their trip. He helped Bob Kent stay under budget on meals by making all the arrangements at Athens to get tables, food pre-ordered, and 10-20% off the price. I guess Pete could have been spending time making more thorough line-ups that would put us apace of K, but he was busy making the behind-the-scenes arrangements for the benefit of K swimmers. On one similar occassion, Millikin University was looking for a meet with us on their way down to Florida, but couldn’t afford to put the swimmers in hotels. Peter arranged for the entire team to stay in the homes of of-campus swimmers overnight, and arranged for cheap meals for Big Blue. We didn’t need to swim Millikin, and we certainly weren’t worried about winning, but we helped THEM out.

      What’s Peter’s reputation? Next time anyone goes to Emory, check out all the pre 1998 All-American plaques on the walls, all the NCAA post-grad scholars, all the Hall of Fame swimmers, and the top-10 finishes at NCAA’s. He HOSTED the USA-USSR dual meet at Emory’s pool in 1989, and 15-20 NCAA championships. As mentioned, he was NCAA coach of the Year at least once, and a perennial winner at UAA’s. He was a winner. Before he moved into administation, Peter was named in the same short list as Kent, George Kennedy, Jim Steen, Houck (St Olaf), and Carl Samuelson (Williams College).

      What’s Pete doing now? He’s Jim Steen’s BOSS. And on October 27th, he’ll be inducted in the Emory Hall of Fame.

    • #31090
      Vic
      Member

      The new pool will be huge for Calvin and great for the MIAA. It should allow the MIAA to host the conference meet on campus more often. Hopefully they will take the time and energy to make it a great pool. I’ve seen a lot of new pools that look pretty and cost a lot but have many flaws. 50m is great, but if you don’t design it correctly, you’ll end up with a mediocre pool that won’t even be as good as some smaller pools.

    • #31091
      silentp
      Member

      I believe the dumbest thing that can be done in building a new pool would be making it 8 lanes and 50M but not taking the step to make it 25y wide. This adds a huge versatility to the complex and really doesn’t add a whole lot in terms of cost (as far as I know).

    • #31092
      DonCheadle
      Member

      When saying the coach didn’t care about winning, I was referring to that duel meet, not to the man in general. I don’t know him at all. I’ll take your word that he is a great guy and we all appreciated the dinner.

      Kzoo was coming off of a shave meet too, and a 12 hour van ride. The conditions were a little less than ideal for us too. And for what it is worth, I think Kzoo went 9-0 in the meet in the 90’s. So it wasn’t exactly a “sometimes” for the men.

    • #31093

      I agree with SilentP. The pool should be as versatile as possible. And that said, it should have a good number of lanes for use in whatever dimension it is used.

      With that in mind, I think the best solution is one of three:

      1) the pool is 50m x 25 yards, and the yards dimension has plenty of marked lanes (like Emory, Wesleyan, Kenyon or MIT). That way, there are plenty of lanes for training, PLUS, at least 8 lanes for meet, and sometimes more, if needed. DISADVANTAGE: if there aren’t two solid bulkheads, or the end wall is not part of the course, there is an unsteadly temporary bulkhead for officials (Wesleyan, Emory)

      2) the pool is 50m x 25 METERS (Olympic Dimension), and there are only markings only for swimming the length of the pool, either the whole way or to a bulkhead. In Olympic pools, there are 10 lanes (82 feet / 10 lanes gives 8 foot wide lanes: Minnesota, Texas, Indy all have 9 foot wide lanes and it is a waste of space). This gives plenty of lanes for training and meets, and clears up the bottom of the pool from clutter. Also, if the gutters are deck-level overflow (like Texas or Sydney), there is much better airflow. DISADVANTAGE: the bulkhead/s has/have to be constantly moved from longcourse to short course for training.

      3) the pool is whatever length, but 25 yards wide to accomodate NINE lanes of swimming. This is a great set-up for double-dual meets, so that each team gets to swim 3 swimmers in the main heat. It’s like having three six-lane meets at once. No second heats. DISADVANTAGE: if not 50m, warm-down area is diminished.

      I haven’t really looked at the specs for Calvin’s pool, but I would build it much like the pool in Holland or at The University of Chicago (if Calvin’s is to be only one tank). Deep end at one side for diving, shallow in the middle for lessons or general use, and depth for at least 10 lanes across in the other deep end, PLUS nine lanes wide for the length of it. Chicago’s pool refined the Holland idea by shifting the competition swim section a few yards down the pool, so all the competition lanes, either across or length-wise, could be in 7 foot depth. The shallow end rose beyond the bulkhead. Also, it had nine lanes running the length of the pool, which makes for more longcourse training lanes (Kenyon has the same deal). If there are two tanks planned, make the main pool all deep, from 7 feet to 14 for diving, and make the second pool 4 lanes by 25 yards by 3.5 feet to 4 feet for exercise classes and money-making kids lessons programs.

      I think that’s really all a D-III facility needs. No need for 17 foot depths for a diving tower, and who really cares if there is a shallow section, so long as it is out of the way of competition?

      If Calvin does it right, they will have a good facility for MIAA meets and a great training site.

    • #31094
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I would be fine with a 25 yard by 25 meter pool with no real shallow end. Take a look at this pool:

      http://www.neisd.net/madison/athletics/swimming/natatorium.htm

      I think it is 6 feet on the shallow end but it has a little ridge on the end that you can stand on.

      I know nothing about this kind of stuff, is it cheaper to “expland” an existing pool or build a new one? I am asking because I do believe Kzoo will one day get something done, probably not the 50M dream pool, but something like the above would be great.

      A 50M by 25M pool? I can only think of 1 in the united states, and it is in houston. I am sure there are others.

    • #31095
      silentp
      Member

      Last I knew, K did have plans for a 50M and had a model built up and everything done from that end. I do not believe it had been approved yet, but would possibly be the next step after improvements to the student union (Hicks).

      Cheadle, Gustavus has basically the same type of pool you are talking about (minus the deck space of the pool you gave an example of), however theirs does go as shallow as 4.6 feet. It’s not a great meet pool (from what i understand) but is great for practicing (as i can attest to).

      http://www.gustavus.edu/athletics/facilities/natatorium

    • #31096

      50m x 25m in the US:

      Georgia Tech Olympic Pool, 10 lanes
      Long Island Goodwill Games Pool (interesting design: 75m long with three bulkheads, so all the features are in one pool) 10 lanes
      Stanford Belardi Pool, 10 lanes

      As for expading a pool vs building a new one, I really don’t know which is more expensive. In expanding an existing pool, you have to knock down one end of the building, move the walls out, break open the pool, drill out all the concrete and rebar, install more plumbing for circulation, install a new pump and filters to handle more water, expand the building’s HVAC to handle a greater volume of air and humidity, expand the electrical, and then repair the hole by enclosing it with new concrete, brick , glass and and rebar. The process will likely take close to a year if not more

      My suggestion for K’s pool or anyone else: build another pool as close the the old one as possible, and adjoin the buildings when completed. Then, K’s current pool can be the diving well and warm-down area, while the new pool, a brand-new 9-lane, 35m stretch pool with 7 foot depth hosts the meets and training. There can even be a walk-through or a hall that connects them.

      Examples of just such a plan are at Case Western, Grove City College and Saint Mary’s College of Maryland (the old pool is at the far end in this picture, and they knocked down the walls of the old pool at the last minute: BTW this is a D-III school). http://www.smcm.edu/athletics/men’s_swimming/

      Or, you can build in another building altogether and make the old pool a band rehearsal area or refrigerant plant (Rochester, Carthage, Chicago).

    • #31097
      silentp
      Member

      The new pool would go over where the current pool sits, so no option for that. The K campus size (especially in that area) doesn’t really allow us to keep the old building.

      Another example of keeping an old pool is the University of Minnesota, who has a 6 lane pool that you have to take a few hallways from the main pool to get to. They keep a list of the freshman school records at that pool.

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