Calvin v. Hope

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    • #12091
      SixBags
      Member

      Great meet last night. Calvin men came out to prove something. Good swim all around for Calvin. Seabeck, Gluvers, and Conrad had great swims for Calvin. These guys surprised a lot of people and kept Calvin in the meet. Ress, Tuuk, Toll, Boumgarden also proved that they will be contending for titles at the end of the year. Great atmosphere throughout the meet and I’m glad the scoreboard didn’t work. I think it kept people more focused on competing than on their individual times. I think Calvin came to compete last night and Hope didn’t, that to me shows a lot about a teams leadership. See you at conference!

    • #32054
      stewie
      Member

      SixBags, Wow, I don’t even know where to start with this one…seriously.

      First, you start off by stating how great a meet it was, when really I think you are just referring to how much you love Calvin. I would agree it was a great meet and there were some great races…of course, we didn’t really know how close they were since the scoreboard didn’t work, but apparently to you that is a plus…I haven’t figured that one out yet.

      I suppose you’re right that Hope’s leadership is crap and Hope didn’t show up to compete last night (I can’t believe you said that). Some of the races last night were some of the toughest, tooth and nail dog fights I have seen in awhile…Calvin won some, and Hope won some.

      To have the nerve to say Hope didn’t show up last night is just stupid. I mean I’m sure we can say that Matt Rose spliting a 47.4 and reeling JBG in the 4 free to win by .5 is not coming to compete. Or may Mitch Ruch negative spliting his 2 bk and touching out Gluvers by .1 is not competing. Or no wait, I got it, maybe it was Phil Heyboer barely edging out Tuuk by .02…maybe that was not competing. Not to mention some of the touch outs went Calvin’s way. I can guarantee you the Hope guys who lost those races were not just trying to make the race close but were trying to win.

      Come on. To say that Hope didn’t show up to compete is ridiculous and a slap in the face to both teams. Hope wanted to win the meet and they have enough respect for Calvin (although that is diminishing at the moment) to swim hard and win races. I’m sorry Hope isn’t notorius for swimming fast in season but that is the way it is.

    • #32055
      silentp
      Member

      As someone just looking at the results, who wasn’t there, I’d say both teams came to race, but Calvin did have more guys show impressive times. Since swimming is mostly done with times, there were several dissappointing swims both for sides, but some great races, which went both ways. Right now is a tough time for anyone to swim.

      I wouldn’t say Hope doesn’t swim fast in season, they swim as fast as most teams in season (with the exception of K and Olivet who are usually on opposite ends of that spectrum).

      Looks like the meet could have gone either way, but Calvin is lacking a bit in the depth department. It will be interesting to see what happens for both teams at their mid season meets, good luck!

    • #32056
      SixBags
      Member

      my bad stewie. I regret the statement about the leadership, not sure where that came from. I was thinking that Hope women would lose by a lot to calvin women and the calvin men would lose by a lot to the hope men. I think everyone was thinking that. It just seemed like from the stands that Calvin was more motivated and more competitive than hope and I think the results show that.

    • #32057

      I think that nobody can say that either the hope or calvin teams were not highly motivated. There were great swims on both sides, and there were slow swims as well. But there was so much effort and emotion, particularly in the last half (the 400!!) that it is impossible to say that anyone was unmotivated. Just to say

    • #32058
      stiles
      Member

      Here’s my 2 cents…

      Bags, when you give completely idiotic analysis of the meet, it decreases your credibility.

      Also, was Calvin more excited abotu this meet? Probably. WHy? Bec Hope takes you out to the woodshed every year. Look at the big races that Calvin would have tried to come out and prove something: 200 Med, 50, 100, 200, both fly events, last relay.

      IN the 2 Med, Hope’s back half could have had people that were faster but we experiementing on a few thigns.

      In the 50, good win for Calvin, I’ll give themn that. But in the same breath Rose has been .3 fast than the winning time.

      100, Hope win in a close one

      200, see 100.

      100 fly, Hope win

      200 fly, Hope’s top fly guy experimenting with teh 1 bk instead…calvin, wins…a gift.

      400 free relay, Hope win.

      I mean, how can you say Calvin proved anything?

    • #32059

      @SixBags wrote:

      I regret the statement about the leadership, not sure where that came from.

      You’re kidding right? You made almost the same outlandish statement prior to the start of the season.

      @SixBags wrote:

      Never underestimate leadership, a lot of teams have talent on their rosters, but few have strong leaders like Tuuk and Herrema for Calvin.

      and

      @SixBags wrote:

      I think Calvin came to compete last night and Hope didn’t, that to me shows a lot about a teams leadership.

      Pretty similar if you ask me.

      What is your point? Do you really think Calvin and DG produce better leaders than the other schools in the conference?

      Calvin is a quality school and DG is a good guy, but to assume the atmosphere at Calvin and your coach produce superior leaders is beyond ridiculous. I’ll stick with JP and the experience I had at Hope.

    • #32060
      silentp
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      IN the 2 Med, Hope’s back half could have had people that were faster but we experiementing on a few thigns.

      In the 50, good win for Calvin, I’ll give themn that. But in the same breath Rose has been .3 fast than the winning time.

      Would Hope’s back half have been that much faster? Nelis has only been .4 faster at his best for a split in the 50 fly this year and his 100 was slower right now, so i don’t know if he would have really split quicker and the anchor might have been a touch faster, but then couldn’t Calvin say Kurt would have been faster if he had to be to get in the win? It was a great race, no one needs to make any excuses, point of the matter is they didn’t get much of a lead on backstroke and were behind by the end of breastroke.

      It doesn’t matter if Rose has been 3 seconds faster, it’s about what a person does in this race, right now. He is likely more broken down right now, leading to a slower swim. He has been over a second faster in his 100 too, but he wasn’t on Friday.

      Both teams were tired, both teams wanted to win. It was a good meet and considering the circumstances, both teams put together some very quality swims. Both teams will only get better from here, so good work for both squads.

    • #32061
      maverick1
      Member

      @stiles wrote:

      Look at the big races that Calvin would have tried to come out and prove something: 200 Med, 50, 100, 200, both fly events, last relay.

      IN the 2 Med, Hope’s back half could have had people that were faster but we experiementing on a few thigns.

      In the 50, good win for Calvin, I’ll give themn that. But in the same breath Rose has been .3 fast than the winning time.

      100, Hope win in a close one

      200, see 100.

      100 fly, Hope win

      200 fly, Hope’s top fly guy experimenting with teh 1 bk instead…calvin, wins…a gift.

      400 free relay, Hope win.

      I mean, how can you say Calvin proved anything?

      i had to laugh when reading this because calvin did in fact win 3 of the 7 events where calvin apparently would have come out and tried to prove something.

      i’ll have to read this post every time i come onto d3swimming today because the excuses are so validated and calvin didn’t actually win the events, they apparently “won” them.

    • #32062
      ajp
      Member

      Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Obviously.

      But Calvin swam better than everyone expected, and lost the meet by 0.12 spread across two events. (200 Free .02, and 100 Free .10)

      Many events were not as fast as they could have been, or as fast as people have been so far this year, but the fact that it was even close at the end of the meet compliments Calvin, more than Hope stepping up in a few events.

      Go ahead and argue, ignore, whatever, but it was not the blowout that everyone expected.

    • #32063
      stiles
      Member

      I am merely saying that in the 2 of the 3 events that were mentioned Hope was experimenting with people swimming other thigns. This is something you do against an opponent that you know you have some points to give.

      I gave them props in the 50, good win. Also, if you and silentp go back to read the post, read the whole thing. I didn’t say the 2med was “much faster” as you said I did. ALso, if the fly leg would heva been .4 faster that would have been enough to win, right? Now, I am sure you will say Kurt could have been faster. I’d like to think after coaching I have a better understanding of Kurt’s inseason swimming abilities than you do. I was sure to say congrats to kurt for a great win and a great swim because it was, however, I don’t know how much faster than a 21.96 he could have gone. But hey, what do I know.

      Nor did I ever put that the won in quotations. I am not sure what post you gusy were reading.

    • #32064
      Waldo
      Member

      I dont think any meet ever held in the pool should be valid… It brings me back to the days in the holland community pool (yes before the 50 meter pool) when we had to do push starts off the wall. My only issues with the pool were:
      1. the air circulation sucks
      2. the water is really hot
      3. the cooldown/warmup conditions could have been better
      4. the lighting is pretty bad
      5. the tiles in the pool are camouflage
      6. the pool is so shallow a decent scoop start is not realistic
      On the plus side its a loud pool?
      Hate to say practicing in the abomination may have been that little bit extra that calvin brought to the meet that made everyone think hope did not bring it. After slamming into the bottom on practice starts many team members were less then enthousiastic to swim thier events. Next time rent EGR’s pool?

    • #32065
      ajp
      Member

      Blaming the outcome of the meet on pool conditions is a poor excuse. It’s not like the dow is that much better of a facility.

      But don’t worry. Next meet you have at Calvin, it’ll be at the new pool.

    • #32066
      Waldo
      Member

      Being comfortable with a pool is extreamly important to the outcome of a meet. Otherwise there would be no difference between swimming in a pool like calvin’s or hope’s and a pool like jenison or even IUPUI or any other “fast” pool. In extream cases take a backstroker that has never trained outside and have them swim a meet outdoors. Then tell me that there is no advantage to the team that trains there everyday. Im not saying the ability to adjust to a pool is not important in swimming, but the pool does have an effect.

    • #32067

      It’s not like the dow is that much better of a facility.

      Check the new poll, I’d say others would disagree with that statement. 😀
      No harm meant, just amused…

    • #32068
      Gargamel
      Member

      The best point Waldo makes is his last one. #6 in my eyes, is valid. I can’t imagine having a great scoop start, diving in to use it and popping up bloody. I could see how that would stick with me everytime I was ready for a race at Calvin.

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