Caleb Courage

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    • #12608
      swim5599
      Member

      Does anyone know if this is his first serious year training long Course? If so I could see some huge things from him next March.

    • #38209

      Yes, it is. And it is my understanding that he will be competing at Senior Nationals next week in Indianapolis, having qualified in both the 50m and 100m free events.

      Are there other D3 swimmers, male or female, competing at these Nationals?

    • #38210
      Mickey Mouse
      Member

      The psych sheets are HERE

    • #38211
      DonCheadle
      Member

      1 ) Dara Torres is seated 1st in the 50. Pretty cool.

      2) Aaron Peirsol has been swimming a decent amount of fly with the hope of grabbing a spot on the Olympic team in the 200 fly (This isn’t some secret I only know about. This has been discussed on other forums). He went a 53.3 last week in the 100M fly. SO I will be interested to see how he does in the 100 and 200 fly.

      3) I looked briefly, but didn’t see other D3 swimmers other than Payne and Courage

      4) Ricky Berens is going to make the Olympic team next year.

    • #38212
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      isn’t Peirsol swimming at that meet in france??

    • #38213

      “I looked briefly, but didn’t see other D3 swimmers other than Payne and Courage”

      Norman Scott (Williams) is entered in the 100 fly.

    • #38214
      N Dynamite
      Member

      Nelson Westby – 100 fly, 100 breast

    • #38215

      Breaststroke:
      Davis Zarins, Kenyon
      Steven Schranck, Carthage

    • #38216
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Geez I missed alot!

    • #38217
      babwik
      Member

      Earlier this summer I heard from a MAC parent that Dave Marsh is enamored with Courage, loves his stroke and thinks he is a diamond in the rough. He has even suggested to Caleb to train with him for a year to try and make a run at one of the 6 spots for the 100 free.

      Might be a big stretch, but with that frame and long stroke he seems built for LCM, and if Dave Marsh said that to me, I would at least give it a listen!!

    • #38218
      silentp
      Member

      @babwik wrote:

      Earlier this summer I heard from a MAC parent that Dave Marsh is enamored with Courage, loves his stroke and thinks he is a diamond in the rough. He has even suggested to Caleb to train with him for a year to try and make a run at one of the 6 spots for the 100 free.

      Might be a big stretch, but with that frame and long stroke he seems built for LCM, and if Dave Marsh said that to me, I would at least give it a listen!!

      I would be surprised if Marsh could get him to the Olympics with a year of training, but this is Dave Marsh, if Caleb gave him until 2012 (and I don’t know him, so I don’t know his desires post-graduation) he could see some huge improvements.

    • #38219

      yes caleb courage is tall. yes dave marsh is a great coach. no caleb will not make the 08 olympic team, as awesome as that would be for d3swimming. look who the competition is in front of him.
      bwt, grevers, lochte, andy grant, cullen jones, michael phelps, brunelli, gary hall, nathan adrian, the list goes on. i guess never say never for 2012, but i can’t imagine it happening anytime soon.

    • #38220
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah I agree no way he makes the 08 team, but if he works with Marsh I see no reason why he couldn’t maybe go 50.4 LCM or so. Not this year but in the future.

    • #38221
      swmwl1
      Member

      I’m glad you guys are not my coach, fairly limited in the optimism column.

      Caleb went 52.1 untapered at the Auburn Sectional meet a few weeks back in his first summer of serious LC swimming. He also hit his trial cut at the Ultra Swim. 50.4 seems like a pretty conservative guess- whether he trains with Dave Fritz or Dave Marsh (I think both are excellent coaches) he can go much faster than 50.4. Last time I checked there are no locks on the team for 2008 and if Marsh thinks Caleb has a shot, then he has a shot. The 6 guys who step it up over prelims, semis and finals will be on the team and to count anyone out- especially a talent like Courage is naive. I watched the meet at Auburn and Courage looks huge right now. In addition, there can be no doubt that his stroke fits LC swimming. I hope he goes nuts at Seniors, has a great Senior year and excellent preparation for trials.

      There are a lot of people out there who have been locks for the Olympic team who have never made the squad, just as there are countless stories of people coming from nowhere to make the team. I’m not going to be the one to say he can’t be one of the latter. I’ll be pulling for the guy, as will our whole team at W&L.

      Regards,

      -Joel Shinofield
      Head Coach
      Men’s Swimming
      Washington and Lee University

    • #38222
      swim5599
      Member

      No one is on here saying that we do not hope he does well, but I think it is going to take 49 low just to make the top 6 next summer. I personallly hope he does well too, and if he goes 49 high at Seniors that would be great, but there are probably just too many guys out there that are capable of going a little faster. Now if we see him pop off a swim that good I have to believe Born’s record is in jeopardy next year.

    • #38223
      swim5599
      Member

      Other swims from this morning
      Zarins 2:25 200 breast
      Duda 2:06 200 fly out in 58.8 ouch
      Schranck 2:29 200 breast
      Payne was 2:36 200 breast

    • #38224
      Chris Knight
      Member

      Courage should do it. You only live once, and MAC is such a great organization that I’m sure they can make it financially feasible for him.

      Finals tonight (6 PM EST) will be webcast, btw: http://usaswimming.sportnet.com/ – Perhaps another Ziegler WR?

    • #38225
      silentp
      Member

      51.53, he got the cut by .06, congrats to him!

    • #38226
      swim5599
      Member

      That is a really good swim. I thought he might be a bit quicker, anyone know if he made the bonus final with that swim?

    • #38227
      bizerkel
      Member
    • #38228

      @swim5599 wrote:

      That is a really good swim. I thought he might be a bit quicker, anyone know if he made the bonus final with that swim?

      No. That was good enough for 53rd.

      Funny!

    • #38229
      bizerkel
      Member

      Note that that was a jump of 28 places.
      I expect great things out him – especially with a year a full-time training under his belt.

    • #38230
      silentp
      Member

      100 fly men’s results for D3:

      Westby 56.29 (just .7 off of the Q time)
      Scott 56.29 (“)

      That’s kind of cool 🙂

      EDIT:

      Matthew Harris entered as Matt Harris,

      56.61

      Great job to everyone.

    • #38231
      swim5599
      Member

      Duda was in there too at 55 mid.

    • #38232
      DonCheadle
      Member

      I personally find it funny that posts that say, “he won’t make it in 08 but maybe ’12,” are followed by “you guys aren’t very optomistic.” There are 6 guys currently swimming who have been a 48 in the 100 (Lezak, Phelps, Walker, Hall, Brunelli, Walters,). Ricky Berens split a 48.0 on a relay last week, Cullen Jones has split a 47. Weber-Gale and BW-T are right there as well. It is going to take a 48 to make the top 8 finals, much less make the team. To predict that anyone who has “only” been a 51.5 is going to make the Olympic team, I don’t care how talented, is kind of sillly. Could he make it? I suppose. But if we are going to start talking about all the people who, if they improve 5% they will make the team, well, that is going to be a very long conversation.

      If this is the first time he has really trained long-course, than Courage will be better in the 50 than the 100 at this meet. I put him at 23.2 in the 50 which will earn him a spot at night.

      I consider the 200 M breast the race most unlike the yards counterpart. Agree?

    • #38233

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      But if we are going to start talking about all the people who, if they improve 5% they will make the team, well, that is going to be a very long conversation.

      No kidding. I am pretty optimistic and I would say he doesn’t even have a 1% chance. All of those guys you mentioned have been in that time range for most of their college years and then some. MY point is that once you approach the sub-50 range, improvement become unbelievably difficult and if you aren’t already there it’s even more so. I would love to be proven wrong though.

      Also, I know most people don’t care about this but all Hopians know Chris DeJong. He is having an amazing meet. 1:46.02 split in the 8 free relay. That converts to a 1:31 roughly. 1:56 in the 2 back is also pretty amazing. Does he have a shot in that event??

    • #38234
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      I consider the 200 M breast the race most unlike the yards counterpart. Agree?

      I’d almost say the 400M free maybe? Slightly shorter than the 500 contrary to the norm; swam more like a 200 free than the 500.

      Just my two cents.

    • #38235
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      I consider the 200 M breast the race most unlike the yards counterpart. Agree?

      Can I make the world’s most annoying answer of “it depends”? If you look at the fly or back (both 100 and 200) and you take a swimmer who swims the race to the 15m mark every time, they will find these races very different. The swimming world is full of guys who couldn’t make the transition, or only say mediocre success once swimming in the meters pool. The opposite can also be true for people who have longer strokes or poor turns.

      For your “average swimmer”, the 200 fly and 200 breast are going to be the most different, but for the elite swimmer, there is a noticeable difference in each and every event that they must overcome to be successful at both.

      The 400/500 is a great point though CaseBrst10, the difference in their respective records is more than 35 seconds. That would be 50 yards and change at their respective speeds.

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      MY point is that once you approach the sub-50 range, improvement become unbelievably difficult and if you aren’t already there it’s even more so. I would love to be proven wrong though.

      While I agree 100% with you, I would like to play devil’s advocate here. Looking at some of the world’s best right now including Phelps, Piersol, Lochte, etc. they are dropping times every time they taper and they would take the obvious theory of “the faster you get, the more difficult it is to drop time” to a whole other level.

      @Captain Insano wrote:

      Also, I know most people don’t care about this but all Hopians know Chris DeJong. He is having an amazing meet. 1:46.02 split in the 8 free relay. That converts to a 1:31 roughly. 1:56 in the 2 back is also pretty amazing. Does he have a shot in that event??

      As a swimming nerd/dork/loser, I do care. I kind of feel bad for the guy though. There are 4 events that i consider 95-99% untouchable for making the team: 200 IM, 400 IM, 200 back and 100 fly. If he wants to go, his best shot will be in the 800 FR, i believe they take 6 in this race also, to fill relays, and it would be his best chance. While his 200 back would have been a WR not so long ago, it just doesn’t cut it in a world with Lochte and Piersol, not to mention the wild card, Phelps. We could see the WR holder not even make it in the event (although I’m not predicting it).

    • #38236

      After I sent that I remembered that there are three guys in the 1:54 range. Chris almost made the Olympic team in 04 with a 1:59.

      Also, your nerdery is what makes you cool.

    • #38237
      DonCheadle
      Member

      DeJong shot is def the 4×200 relay. It is going to take a 1:46 to make the team but considering the split seems very possible. He had a pretty sweet split on the 4×100 as well.

      SilentP: A year ago I would agree with you on your Olympic “locks”: 200 IM, 400 IM, 200 back and 100 fly. In the 400 IM, first I am not 100% sure that Phelps is going to swim it, and now that Vendt is back it wouldn’t be a total shock if he beat Lochte. And in the 100 fly, BW-T just went a 52.3 and Berens (who is only 19) went a 52.9. Between the two of them atleast a little noise is being made. Although after writing this, man these guys really are still far off Phelps and Crocker.

    • #38238
      franchise
      Member

      I was anxious to see 200 free today and only 1.49.8 from Chris.. maybe he was too anxious.. we’ll see what happens tonight

    • #38239
      silentp
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      SilentP: A year ago I would agree with you on your Olympic “locks”: 200 IM, 400 IM, 200 back and 100 fly. In the 400 IM, first I am not 100% sure that Phelps is going to swim it, and now that Vendt is back it wouldn’t be a total shock if he beat Lochte. And in the 100 fly, BW-T just went a 52.3 and Berens (who is only 19) went a 52.9. Between the two of them atleast a little noise is being made. Although after writing this, man these guys really are still far off Phelps and Crocker.

      Phelps has said he is swimming the 400 IM through ’08, then dropping it from his program to focus on shorter events (such as the 100 free). I don’t see him pulling a Saban, but i guess it’s possible. I would see Lochte dropping it before Phelps.

      Yes, 52.3 and 52.9 are amazingly fast and not far off the former world record by Klim, but they still lost to Phelps who had just finished going 3:47 in the 400m free… 3 seconds off the AR in an event that can only be considered his 8th or 9th best event. Not only did they lose to him after that, but by a full second (more if we’re talking about Berens). Clearly there is potential there, but probably better to wait until ’12, or pray for a DQ.

    • #38240
      iamdonovan
      Member

      It’ll be easier for their prayers of a DQ to be answered if idiots keep taking flash pictures at the start of the event.

    • #38241
      silentp
      Member

      Great 50 by Courage, 18th going into tonight. Cheadle was only a tenth off on his time, but Courage could prove him right tonight.

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