C. Courage

That would be a total bummer if Courage did not swim this year. Personally I would love to see if he could tackle the great Jim Born’s record in the 100 free this year.

1. Caleb is, in fact, taking the year off to focus on Trials. He is staying in NC and swimming under David Marsh at Mecklenburg Aquatics. It was not an easy decision for him, but Coach Marsh and I both felt it was in his best interests to pursue this opportunity. He will be back for the 2008-09 season and we’re also hoping to see him take a shot at Born’s record. Plus, with he and Whitbeck being seniors together we’re looking forward to one more shot with both at the 200 FR. Hopefully the extra year will give us the edge we need.

2. Mitch Young had a severe bicycle accident in the spring and broke his collar bone. Two things – the injury was bad enough that his mobility in the shoulder is compromised. He has also changed his major from English to Pre-Med and needs the time to catch up on coursework.

Dave Fritz
GCC Men’s Swimming and Diving

Well thanks for the update. Wish him all the best at the trials next summer.

Mitch Young’s accident is a bummer. Ouch.

While Courage taking the year off stinks for this year, it will be better to have him next year, a year older and faster. In 18 months he will go a 42 in the 100 free. I feel really confident about that statement.

Heck, I don’t see it happening, but wouldn’t it be great to have an Olympian swimming D3!

42 plus in the 100? I am not quite sure about that. He will be faster and probably the record holder in both the 50 and 100, but that might be a smidge quick.

Marsh wouldn’t want him around unless he thought he could reasonably expect a 42 in yards (more importalty 49 in Meters) out of him.

Though he doesn’t have great turns, so maybe the 49 in more possible than the 42.

Yeah I would say that would be a possibility. The deph in that race is scary. He could go 49.8 and not make the top 16. That is just sick.

What does everyone think Marsh sees in Courage that makes him think that Courage has a shot at the Olympics? Does he have some sort of flaw in his stroke that will allow him to drop 2 or more seconds off his 100 meter free in a year? As good as Courage is, right now it just seems kind of silly to take a year off. The US depth in the 100 free is incredible right now. He could go 49.0 and not even be a relay swimmer at the Olympics.

@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

What does everyone think Marsh sees in Courage that makes him think that Courage has a shot at the Olympics? Does he have some sort of flaw in his stroke that will allow him to drop 2 or more seconds off his 100 meter free in a year? As good as Courage is, right now it just seems kind of silly to take a year off. The US depth in the 100 free is incredible right now. He could go 49.0 and not even be a relay swimmer at the Olympics.

Yes, but then again, he could go 49.0 and be a relay swimmer… and I know I would take a year off of school for that chance in a heartbeat. Especially if a coach like David Marsh thought I had a legit shot at it. Whats the big deal about graduating in 5 years?

As a Grove City guy, I’m really excited to see Caleb go for “the ultimate dream.” I think that the full year of training will be great for him-it will be fun to see not only how fast he goes by next summer, but how fast he will be his Senior year.

My question is: Will Grove City be able to qualify athe 200 free relay this year without Caleb and Mitch Young? They will still return the defending national champion in the 50 free, as well as Drew Snyder and Peter Larsen who should step in well. But will it be enough?

And second, when Caleb does come back, will the Grove City men have enough to beat the national record in the 200 free relay? I’d say it’s very possible that they will have two guys under 20.0.

@RhymeAndReason wrote:

Yes, but then again, he could go 49.0 and be a relay swimmer… and I know I would take a year off of school for that chance in a heartbeat. Especially if a coach like David Marsh thought I had a legit shot at it. Whats the big deal about graduating in 5 years?

i dont want to stomp on courages and anyones dream of him making the olympic team, but if he does want to make it just imagine who he must contend with to make the top 6…. names like Phelps, Crocker, Lezak, Brunelli, Walker, Jones, Wochomurka, Bal, Weber-gale… although 49.4 did make it last time, i have a hard time thinking courage can beat these guys, let alone compete with them.

Regardless of his odds, I wish nothing but the best for Caleb as he pursues the next level of competition in the sport of swimming. May he find success where others see failure. Best of luck, Caleb.

It is my understanding that Coach Marsh sees potential in Courage for the 2012 Olympics, not necessarily for 2008, provided that….

1. Caleb wants to maintain a high (world class) level of training for the next five years.
2. He drops enough time by next summer to even consider #1.

Remember that his past ’07 summer training was not that intensive, as he did no weight training at all. And that he was basically “out of shape” going into the summer. And that he had never trained long course in his life. Still Caleb was able to qualify for 2 events for the Olym. Trials.

My personal feeling is that he will be in the top 10 for the 50 meters, and top 20 for the 100 meters for next summer’s meet in Omaha. Yet I could be wrong.

You know, you only go around once on this crazy planet. So what does Courage have to lose by going for this? It’s not like he’s dropping out of school or something. I’m really excited that he’s got the guts to try this, and I’ll be pulling for him big time when the Trials roll around. And frankly, as far as I’m concerned, if Marsh thinks he has a shot, then he has a shot. Dave Marsh has been on multiple Olympic staffs for a good reason – he knows what he’s doing.

Whether he makes it or not, in ’09 I wouldn’t be surprised if GCC wins the 2 and maybe the 4 relay, Caleb goes a 42 like Cheadle surmised, and maybe wins the 50 and 200 too.

I agree with Chris Knight. If I had the option (not to mention any semblance of talent) of taking a year off, training with one of the top 3 or so sprint coaches of the last ten years, competing against the best in the world, etc. I would go for it. Sounds like a blast, and an experience very few get to have.

In a year, he goes back to school, gets his degree, and chases some national titles and records. Where’s the downside.

It’s always tough when you look at who you have to beat to make the Olympics, but you can’t focus on “beating” people in swimming b/c there is no defense. I’ll be watching and rooting with interest to see him put up some awesome times.

This has a little bit of a hoosiers angle to it, and I think we’ve got a great person representing d3 swimming out there. Go get em!

In response to GCCSwimmer16:

I absolutely think that GCC has a shot to qualify the 200 Free Relay this year without Courage. If I’m not mistaken there were four sophomores on the relay at the PAC Championships that went 1:23.67 (.03 under the invite time) before TTing the event and blazing. Mitch Young will also have to be replaced but Larson was 20.8 last year and Snyder was 20.8 as a freshman. If Whitbeck can go out in 20.2 like he has been and the Q time is where it was last year a 21.4 gets you home on the end. Fritz has done great things with his sprinters the past few years. I do not believe this to be a stretch at all. Best of luck to the guys at GCC and Caleb on his quest!

I was thinking the same thing about them setting the record in the 200 Free relay. No effen way.

Graduating in 5 years is completely irrelevent. Who cares. Really, it is not that important. In fact, I’ll probably encourage my own kids to do that. IF you graduate in 4 years, and get an MBA in 2 you are 24 when you go to work. That is too young to be taken seriously anyhow.

Oh and how can he drop 2 seconds? By trainging fulltime and not worrying about anything else. Take a look at what David Cromwell has done in the 100 back and Eric Shanteau has done in the 200 breast swimming with Longhorn full time. Huge drops from guys who were a little better than CC to begin with.

My guess is he will go around 50.2 in the 100. That will make top 16, though. 22.7 in the 50.

A couple of thoughts on the entire subject. This is a huge opportunity for him, so I say go after it. I however do not think 50.2 will make the top 16, I think you are going to have to be under in order to do it. How crazy is that. I came up with at least 15 guys that have been under 50 that will probably be again, and that was not including Nathan Adrian who went 50.0 last summer.

I think Grove City has a legit shot to get that relay in this year, but no way they break the nat record the next year. That record is fast real fast.

I say we all just wish Caleb the best and look forward to 43.4 and 19.7 the next year.

@DonCheadle wrote:

Graduating in 5 years is completely irrelevent. Who cares. Really, it is not that important. In fact, I’ll probably encourage my own kids to do that. IF you graduate in 4 years, and get an MBA in 2 you are 24 when you go to work. That is too young to be taken seriously anyhow.

I’m 23 and I don’t have an MBA. No wonder I don’t have a job.

As much as I want to see Courage do well, its ridiculous to say that Shanteau and Cromwell are only “a little better than him.” Cromwell made NCAAs and finaled, while Shanteau was the perennial bridesmaid at NCAAs and had made WUGs during his college career, which was before he medalled at pan pacs. Courage hasn’t made a D1 B cut, unless I’m mistaken, and he’s nowhere near the Q time, much less the A cut.
He might have a shot at London, but, since no one answered my question about stroke flaws etc, I’m going to say that there is no way he goes to Beijing.
I wouldn’t say that I’m a naysayer, I’m just being realistic. There’s nothing wrong at all with graduating in 5 years or with taking a year off. I’m just arguing with the people who think he will make the team.

Screeeeech I am a naysayer too. In fact I don’t know who you are talking too because there hasn’t been a single “he is going to make the team” post. All I was saying was that he could go under 50. The reason for bringing up Cromwell and Shanteau is that both dropped huge time after being at a really high level. I just want to dispute the notion that high level swimmers cannot drop huge amounts. The fact that they are both “higher” level swimmers bolsters the opinion.

@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

He might have a shot at London, but, since no one answered my question about stroke flaws etc, I’m going to say that there is no way he goes to Beijing.
I wouldn’t say that I’m a naysayer, I’m just being realistic. There’s nothing wrong at all with graduating in 5 years or with taking a year off. I’m just arguing with the people who think he will make the team.

I really don’t see anyone saying he’ll make beijing and only a couple said his focus might be london. Not sure who you’re arguing with, but your comment that “taking a year off is silly” kind of perpetuated the topic.
@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

As much as I want to see Courage do well, its ridiculous to say that Shanteau and Cromwell are only “a little better than him.” Cromwell made NCAAs and finaled, while Shanteau was the perennial bridesmaid at NCAAs and had made WUGs during his college career, which was before he medalled at pan pacs. Courage hasn’t made a D1 B cut, unless I’m mistaken, and he’s nowhere near the Q time, much less the A cut.

If I’m not mistaken his 100 from the past two years would have been a D1 B cut and his 50 last year was also.

Let him live the dream – who’s it hurting? I say good luck to him. And you never know, he might pull off a miracle. Stranger things have happened.

I think it is a great opportunity and there is no reason not to go for it. Even if he is only going for this year you have to seize the opportunity or live with the regret of not trying. One year is nothing and it may open many doors for him. And if 2012 is in the picture then even more reason to go.

I am looking to move my kid to austin in march to push not for the games but to make the trails so in 2012 he will be ready and experienced at the trials. Will it disrupt his HS – a little bit, but you have to give him the opportunity.

I don’t think anyone was trying to compare Courage to Cromwell and Shanteau. And no I do not think he will make the team, but if he goes 50.0 or a smidge faster we can start thinking about 2012. He gets the best of both worlds he gets to swim with arguably the best coach in the country for a year and then gets to come back and try to break some pretty impressive records. The other thing that this does is give Grove City some great credibility. I would think that program will get even better as the years go on.

@swim5599 wrote:

I don’t think anyone was trying to compare Courage to Cromwell and Shanteau. And no I do not think he will make the team, but if he goes 50.0 or a smidge faster we can start thinking about 2012. He gets the best of both worlds he gets to swim with arguably the best coach in the country for a year and then gets to come back and try to break some pretty impressive records. The other thing that this does is give Grove City some great credibility. I would think that program will get even better as the years go on.

I think it brings some more cred to DIII as well. It also keeps him in David Marsh’s sight, for possibly setting him up to train through to 2012 if he so chooses. I’ll go on record with him just barely getting under 50., and 23…. which are times that are nothing to sneeze at!

I think it would be great if he, Courage, could keep the forum updated on his progress, training. Like the previous post great for DIII exposure and all should cheer him on.

@JHU84 wrote:

I think it would be great if he, Courage, could keep the forum updated on his progress,

Great idea.

I think that Courage’s decision to train for 2008 and take a year off is a great idea. I am sure Marsh and himself are realistic about making the team, which considering the current talent is not great. But if he does have a great year and finishes in the top 16, this sets up a great base for 2012. In doing so, his foundation is set and opens the door to some possible sponsorship (great angle because he is DIII. I am sure speedo, TYR, Nike, or Addidas- Impossible is nothing, would love for the broadcasters at the Olympic trials talk about the DIII kid who has a shot at making the team and he is wearing their suit). If this is possible to get some sort of finacial support, then training for 2012 becomes more realistic.

Yeah I never even thought of that angle. There is no question about what Marsh has done with sprinters SCY, I am now interested to see if he gets the same kind of results with his guys LCM.

@Its all an ACT wrote:

In doing so, his foundation is set and opens the door to some possible sponsorship (great angle because he is DIII. I am sure speedo, TYR, Nike, or Addidas- Impossible is nothing, would love for the broadcasters at the Olympic trials talk about the DIII kid who has a shot at making the team and he is wearing their suit).

@The Olympic Trials commentators wrote:

courage???? who is that?

Much as Courage will be missed this season, I think the decision is a fantastic one. I wish him all the best and hope indeed that he pulls off the miracle in the end.

And whatever spotlight he ends up getting at Trials, it’ll be some nice recognition for not only D3 swimming and Grove City, but I think for small-school HS swimming in PA as well. And it won’t hurt the reputation of MAC any either.

Good point on Duda. In fact, didn’t he actually swim for Latvia in Athens in 04?

Duda is not training for US trials, as far as I am aware. He’ll probably swim for Latvia again, unless something has changed recently. Here’s a question though. Rick Gjertsen, his part time coach, thinks that Duda can A final in the 100 fly at the Olympics. Is that possible? My feeling is no way absolutely not, especially considering his last NCAAs and his times from sectionals the past few years. Thoughts?

Rick Gjertsen, his part time coach, thinks that Duda can A final in the 100 fly at the Olympics.

haha. I am sorry but NO

@screeeeeeeeech wrote:

Duda is not training for US trials, as far as I am aware. He’ll probably swim for Latvia again, unless something has changed recently. Here’s a question though. Rick Gjertsen, his part time coach, thinks that Duda can A final in the 100 fly at the Olympics. Is that possible? My feeling is no way absolutely not, especially considering his last NCAAs and his times from sectionals the past few years. Thoughts?

Yeah, as you said, he seems to only be getting slower. To bad, 54.8 like 5 years ago, if he had improved on it consistantly, might have actually had a shot at top 8.

Great swimmer but no way.

It is going to take a 52 low to make top 8 in the 100 fly. There is no swimmer on a D3 roster right now who can 100% certainty do that in the 100 M free. So yeah, I’ll go ahead and say no way. Courage has a better shot at making the team than Duda does at making top 8.

Totally agree. Not taking anything away from Duda. Remember he was the last person to actually beat Marc Courtney Brooks in an individual race. Still to this day I have no idea how he did it. That race looked over at the 75, but Duda pulled it out. Great swim

@weedwacker2000 wrote:

It is my understanding that Coach Marsh sees potential in Courage for the 2012 Olympics, not necessarily for 2008, provided that….

1. Caleb wants to maintain a high (world class) level of training for the next five years.
2. He drops enough time by next summer to even consider #1.

Remember that his past ’07 summer training was not that intensive, as he did no weight training at all. And that he was basically “out of shape” going into the summer. And that he had never trained long course in his life. Still Caleb was able to qualify for 2 events for the Olym. Trials.

My personal feeling is that he will be in the top 10 for the 50 meters, and top 20 for the 100 meters for next summer’s meet in Omaha. Yet I could be wrong.

i want him to do well just so that i can say… i touched that kid out in the 50 free my senior year (and then he “touched” me out in the 100). 🙂

plus itd be awesome to get a d3 guy to the trials and do well.

Any news on what meets Courage will be going to this year? US Open is only a couple of weeks away…

I’m not sure about other meets in 2008, but he is planning to compete, along with other members of the swim club where he is training, at the SCY Open Nationals in Atlanta (providing they get some rain,:wink:) at the end of November.

i have not checked up on swimming for a while, but i read this thread and i saw go for it. even if he gets dead last at trials(which he wont, that kid is unreal, and a real nice guy to boot), its worth it to try. my brother and i joked about being fast enough to go to trials and get dead last. i think it would be fun.

go for it caleb, i wish you the best.

@Short Course Nationals Results wrote:

1 MACNC Mecklenburg Aquatic Club A 2:56.36
VAN WIE Doug 0.77 21.34 44.24
LIEBHOLD Tim 0.38 21.08 44.28 1:28.52
COURAGE Caleb 0.38 20.72 44.38 2:12.90
SMIT Michael 0.14 20.32 43.46 2:56.36

Caleb just won his first (hopefully not last) USA Swimming National Title, and got some good coverage on the webcast while doing it – congratulations!

Before the computer could be changed, the Mecklenburg coach substituted Mark Gangloff in for Caleb at the last moment. Although he certainly could have swum the posted time, alas Caleb did not for this event. No national championship this time.

even if it was him, 7 guys, who wont be in contention for the team, out split him. if he wants to make the show, hes gonna have to do better than that. but again, it wasnt him.

a national title is a national title, but michigan didnt even send some of there best freestylers– Savulitch… Barba and that 46 lead off killed them… Geissenger can do that or even better.

nationals over all was pretty weak. they had to fight with the Husky Invite and the Texas Invite (Nike cup…)– overall, not many college studs, it seemed like a lot of high schoolers and graduates.

@wickedfoolish wrote:

nationals over all was pretty weak. they had to fight with the Husky Invite and the Texas Invite (Nike cup…)– overall, not many college studs, it seemed like a lot of high schoolers and graduates.

If you aggregate the winning time from every event and adjust for distance I am quite sure it would be the fastest meet ever. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

@DonCheadle wrote:

@wickedfoolish wrote:

nationals over all was pretty weak. they had to fight with the Husky Invite and the Texas Invite (Nike cup…)– overall, not many college studs, it seemed like a lot of high schoolers and graduates.

If you aggregate the winning time from every event and adjust for distance I am quite sure it would be the fastest meet ever. So I guess it depends on your perspective.

fastest meet ever? no. last summer nationals, every other nationals, ncaas, trials. not even the fastest taper meet. We saw Lochte dominate everyone and thats about it. you might be confused, thinking that i was including the womens side, but besides coughlin, i havent the foggiest nor do i care what they did. Phelps didnt even taper for it (i heard he only did a days drop.) putting nationals in december always shows sub par results. US opens will be more impressive, have more depth and will be faster.

@wickedfoolish wrote:

fastest meet ever? no. last summer nationals, every other nationals, ncaas, trials. not even the fastest taper meet. We saw Lochte dominate everyone and thats about it. you might be confused…

My criteria was perfectly clear. the winning times aggreagated and adjusted for distance would be the best ever. Obviously that would imply the SCY format only. So I will reitterate: this was the fastest SCY meet ever. For men, probably for women too.

First of all, the criteria is dumb. Yeah, there were some fast times, but they belong to 2 swimmers: Lotche and Phelps.

It’s much tougher to make it back at NCAAs. Even if we were to use your criteria, here’s the picture:

07 NCAA / Last weekend

50 free 18.69 / 19.31
100 free 41.17 / 42.11 (B Final)
200 free 1.33.29 / 1.32.13
500 free 4.09.80 / 4.10.75
Mile 14.26.70 / 14.34.85

100 fly 44.57 / 45.8
200 fly 1.42.98 / 1.41.94

100 breast 51.56 / 51.80 (B Final)
200 breast 1.52.71 / 1.54.94

100 back 44.83 / 45.09
200 back 1.38.71 / 1.36.81

200im 1.41.72 / 1.40.08
400im 3.40.89 / 3.37.88

200 free relay 1.23.37 (national Record) / NA
400 free relay 2.46.56 / 2.56.36
800 free relay 6.14.14 / 6.12.43

200 medley relay 1.14.71 (National Record) / NA
400 medley relay 3.04.40 / 3.08.62

2007 NCAA would win 10 events
Last weekend’s meet would win 6 events and I am not even counting the 200 relays, which had their records broken at 2007 NCAAs

Even if you dont count the relays:

2007 NCAA would win 8 events
Last weekend’s meeet would win 5 events

If you take Lotche and Phelps out, only the 200 fly had a faster time.

Conclusion: it’s not even close, and I could have taken 2006 NCAA, 2005 NCAA, etc.

Also, I am not even considering meets in LCM, which would make the comparison more difficult.

So, unless you add more assumptions to your criteria, it’s not even close.

@DonCheadle wrote:

@wickedfoolish wrote:

fastest meet ever? no. last summer nationals, every other nationals, ncaas, trials. not even the fastest taper meet. We saw Lochte dominate everyone and thats about it. you might be confused…

My criteria was perfectly clear. the winning times aggreagated and adjusted for distance would be the best ever. Obviously that would imply the SCY format only. So I will reitterate: this was the fastest SCY meet ever. For men, probably for women too.

i havent done the necessary leg work to prove this, but your statement is, frankly, quite stupid. Dont be offended, but obviously youre among few who think nationals can contend with NCAAs. Im going to think you forgot that NCAAs in a non-olympic year is swum in yards (the olympics get to everyones head). 2007 Men’s Divison 1 NCAAs was the fastest short meet ever in history, not 2007 short course nationals, not even close. if you dont remember what happened, heres a link: http://collegeswimming.com/meet/3001/

in both speed, records broken, and depth, 2007 NCAAs puts this years nationals to shame.

thus, i leave you with this statement: Division 1 NCAAs is the fastest meet in the world- every year, every course.

@Father wrote:

Yeah, there were some fast times, but they belong to 2 swimmers: Lotche and Phelps.

i would probably add alexandrov’s 51.80 in the 100 breast onto this one, i mean it was 2nd fastest of all time (to himself) it did look pretty stupid that he was allowed to swim at the meet, and score, but not swim in finals….

unless you don’t consider 51.8 fast in the 100 breast?

Alexandrov was faster though at last years NCAA’s

@maverick wrote:

@Father wrote:

Yeah, there were some fast times, but they belong to 2 swimmers: Lotche and Phelps.

i would probably add alexandrov’s 51.80 in the 100 breast onto this one, i mean it was 2nd fastest of all time (to himself) it did look pretty stupid that he was allowed to swim at the meet, and score, but not swim in finals….

unless you don’t consider 51.8 fast in the 100 breast?

why couldnt he swim at finals?

colbybr- it was in response to him saying that there were ‘some’ fast times….i mean i think that this one does stand out as a very fast time

and if we’re going off of records broken and beating 2007 ncaa winning times, then phelps really didn’t swim ‘fast’ either

alexandrov couldn’t swim in the ‘a’ finals because for swimming he represents the country of bulgaria and not the united states…..although he is a US citizen, which does allow him to have the american record, the whole situation is quite crazy in my mind

@maverick wrote:

colbybr- it was in response to him saying that there were ‘some’ fast times….i mean i think that this one does stand out as a very fast time

and if we’re going off of records broken and beating 2007 ncaa winning times, then phelps really didn’t swim ‘fast’ either

i felt that phelps was a disappointment by comparison. then again, he didnt taper.

Didnt Cesar represent Brasil in the 50 free finals?

@maverick wrote:

alexandrov can’t swim in finals because for swimming he represents the country of bulgaria and not the united states…..although he is a US citizen, which does allow him to have the american record, the whole situation is quite crazy in my mind

Yeah a lot of people do seem to have a problem with it based on discussion on other boards. I for one have no problem with him having the american record. If anyone has a problem with it they should beat him.

@wickedfoolish wrote:

Didnt Cesar represent Brasil in the 50 free finals?

yup, and that’s why he was in the B final

didn’t cielo beat phelps in the 100 free and beat lochte in the 50, just to add to the randomness/craziness of this meet

@wickedfoolish wrote:

i havent done the necessary leg work to prove this, but your statement is, frankly, quite stupid.

Well I did the leg work and as it turns out NCAA’s was about .1 of a second faster per 50 than the meet this weekend. So I was wrong by a very slim margin based on the criteria I set. Not saying my criteria is right, though.

I think you are looking at the depth of the D1 meet. I don’t consider a 1:34 in the 200 freestyle note worthy when talking about this subject. Just a different way of looking at it.

rookie mistake.

we forgive you.

@Father wrote:

rookie mistake.

we forgive you.

Rookie mistake? I think you mean by YOU and screw the coconut guy. You guys owe Cheadle the apology – he was 1 tenth of a second off in his prediction – the way you guys trounced on him you would have thought he was saying something WAY WAY off – you know, something along the lines of what the Mac … I have the stupidist avatar ever.. guy would say.

Father-

You are the one that butchered Ryan Lochte’s name twice. You spelled it as Lotche. So I guess you are one with a rookie mistake too.

I guess we forgive you too.

@RhymeAndReason wrote:

@Father wrote:

rookie mistake.

we forgive you.

Rookie mistake? I think you mean by YOU and screw the coconut guy. You guys owe Cheadle the apology – he was 1 tenth of a second off in his prediction – the way you guys trounced on him you would have thought he was saying something WAY WAY off – you know, something along the lines of what the Mac … I have the stupidist avatar ever.. guy would say.

your contribution to this conversation is neither accurate nor helpful. i can understand its pretty hard to analyze two meets- meets you’ve never swam at. even more so, i started off disagreeing rather than “trouncing” with his bold statement, one that is skewed from typical thinking. my comments are never personal, just blunt when outrageous (to me) statements are written. as for his “.1” claim, im gonna believe it without actually doing it out. It could have been faster had phelps cared but it could have been worse if Lochte wasnt there.

As apologies go, none will be given by me.

but, on a personal note, “rhymeandreason”, you should try and learn a few things from people who know what they are talking about. its kinda foolish when all you can do is attack something meaningless like an avatar and not make it witty or even slightly funny. if you were somewhat intelligent or competent, you would have been able to try to disprove my bold statement- something cheadle did. i guess theres very little you could have done there

@wickedfoolish wrote:

if you were somewhat intelligent or competent, you would have been able to try to disprove my bold statement- something cheadle did. i guess theres very little you could have done there

Please don’t try and suck up to me. You are an arrogant smut who hasn’t figured out that being an ass doesn’t impress people. And Rhyme is quite right, your avatar is immature at best and probably more along the lines of pathetic.

@DonCheadle wrote:

@wickedfoolish wrote:

if you were somewhat intelligent or competent, you would have been able to try to disprove my bold statement- something cheadle did. i guess theres very little you could have done there

Please don’t try and suck up to me.

that by no means was sucking up to you, but to people who actually write something worth reading. i, however, was trying to imply that youre not as useless as some, but maybe you mistook that too.

but the rest isnt too far off- an arrogant ass who was right.

Anyway, I thought that both this SCY meet AND NCAA”s last year were both fast meets, and great for the sport of swimming. I definitely thought that last years NCAA’s was way faster and its pretty surprising to find out they were so close. Maybe I, like some other people on this thread, tend to discount scy performances by graduated stars like Phelps, Lochte or Alexandrov.

@wickedfoolish wrote:

but, on a personal note, “rhymeandreason”, you should try and learn a few things from people who know what they are talking about. its kinda foolish when all you can do is attack something meaningless like an avatar and not make it witty or even slightly funny. if you were somewhat intelligent or competent, you would have been able to try to disprove my bold statement- something cheadle did. i guess theres very little you could have done there

yeah, ad hominem attack… I was venting a bit after working six 18 hour days in a row. You’res wasn’t really meant as an attack, I just couldn’t remember your screenname when I was responding to Father, bit it is hard to forget your avatar. : p I do actually find the avatar a bit offensive. Then I just attacked Mac’s avatar just because I don’t like it and the fact that he hadn’t ever heard of Jim Steen is crazy.

I hold to the rest of my comment. : )

Can someone please summarize the first 5 pages of posts for me? Obviously there is SOMETHING interesting going on here, but I can’t tell by reading this page and I am too lazy to read the rest. I did read something about Caleb almost swimming on a relay though.

Overall, I am happy to see a lot of post volume in the past few weeks, although about half of it seems to be pointless. Kind of like this post…