Brian Miller:

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    • #12647
      Low Tide
      Member

      Only swimmer ever to break an MIAA Record, break a varsity record, get an A cut, a b-cut and 2 relay b-cuts at the MIAA Championships (1993) and still not get picked for All-MIAA…

      How the heck did that happen???

      Mainly – he did not finish first place in any events… but breaking an MIAA record (not even mentioning an A cut) should count a lot more than someone who placed top 4 in 3 events.

      Here are the selections in 1993:

      1993
      Kirk Assink, HO
      Jeff Bannink, HO
      Chris Behling, AB
      Jon Hescott, HO
      Steve Hope, HO
      Steve Hunt, K
      Shawn Kinser, HO
      Dan Knapp, HO
      Mike Lubbers, C
      Bob Marks, K
      Keith Nykamp, HO
      Greg Raczniak, K
      Erik Scollon, AB
      Matt Swirtz, K
      Jeff Walker, K
      Ed Weber, AB

      Unfortunately I can not find the results to this meet — But let’s see, he should have easily beaten out the following:

      Scollon, Weber, Kinser, Swirtz and Behling — All of whom did not win a single event and certainly did not come close to breaking any MIAA records. Knapp, Hope and Bannick did not win individual events as well.

    • #38590
      Milhouse
      Member

      I think this is funny because this year’s incoming freshman class was probably born in 1989…which makes them 3 or 4 years old when that meet happened.

    • #38591
      Low Tide
      Member

      Holy crap — you guys (who actually swam at that meet) are old!!!

    • #38592
      miller
      Member

      Low Tide… I don’t care about it…why do you?

      Good trivia though…. πŸ™‚

      “Only swimmer who was All-America for 4 years but All-MIAA for only 3”

    • #38593
      facenorth
      Member

      Miller, I hate to burst your bubble but I want to say Chris ‘Lenny’ Hamstra was also an All American four different years and All MIAA for 3. Shoot, Heydlauff was an All American four different years and only All MIAA twice.

    • #38594
      miller
      Member

      *burst* πŸ™‚

      How about “Only Kzoo swimmer from 1993-1996…etc etc.”

    • #38595
      Low Tide
      Member

      Low Tide… I don’t care about it…why do you?

      You are such a liar.

      “Only swimmer who was All-America for 4 years but All-MIAA for only 3”

      So that wouldn’t work, but “Only swimmer to ever break an MIAA record, and not get elected to All-MIAA” — I bet that is one for the annals.

      That ’93 year was a damn good year for the MIAA, looking at it.

    • #38596
      silentp
      Member

      @miller wrote:

      *burst* πŸ™‚

      How about “Only Kzoo swimmer from 1993-1996…etc etc.”

      Or “individual” all-american all 4 years… assuming you were

    • #38597
      facenorth
      Member

      Sorry Miller. I don’t think Travis Barkel was All MIAA when he was apart of the 200 Free Relay that set the MIAA Record.

    • #38598
      Low Tide
      Member

      This may be a presumption on my part, but I think Miller’s MIAA record was individual – in the 200 breast.

      I could be wrong though (though he definitely got it his next year).

      I’m sure there have been a few swimmers to break MIAA records in relays, but not make All-MIAA.

      Or “individual” all-american all 4 years… assuming you were

      Nope – Miller choked that year. Actually, I believe he completely botched his turn in one event and I forgot what happened in the other. Not a good year for Brian… amazing when you consider he came out of no where to place third at nationals in both breast events the next year.

    • #38599
      silentp
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      Nope – Miller choked that year. Actually, I believe he completely botched his turn in one event and I forgot what happened in the other. Not a good year for Brian… amazing when you consider he came out of no where to place third at nationals in both breast events the next year.

      You act like he didn’t plan that sneak attack on the country…

    • #38600
      miller
      Member

      Remember that time I ate coal and shat diamonds?
      That freakin’ ruled.

      PFau – I was 15th in the 100br my sophomore year (honorable mention AA). I DQ’ed in the 200br my sophomore year. That is the event to which Rabbins is referring. That all occurred sophomore year.

      Rabbins – How is your new house? I haven’t seen pictures yet.

    • #38601
      Potsy
      Member

      @Low Tide wrote:

      Scollon, Weber, Kinser, Swirtz and Behling — All of whom did not win a single event and certainly did not come close to breaking any MIAA records. Knapp, Hope and Bannick did not win individual events as well.

      If I remember correctly, Kinser was 2nd in the 50, the 100, and the 200 all behind other Hope swimmers. Some guys, like Bannink, where not shaved and tapered but had a history of great MIAA and NCAA performances. The 200 free was insane. Guys like Hescott and Bannink made the top 8 at NCAA, but didn’t make finals at the MIAA meet.
      My point is that Miller obviously deserved it, but so did a lot of people.

      House

    • #38602
      DonCheadle
      Member

      Because this was 14 years ago I feel a little embarassed even commenting, but: Miller got hosed. It does not matter that the Hope guys were unshaven they didn’t perform well at the meet. Should the Kzoo backstroker automatically get MIAA MVP this year regardless of what he does at the MIAA meet? Unless someone improves he is the best swimmer in the leage.

      Miller set the MIAA record in prelims (got beat in finals by another Kzoo swimmer). Hunt won it in finals with a 2:08.2 Kzoo actually had 3 guys swim the 200 breast at Nats that year, 2 scored.

    • #38603
      Low Tide
      Member

      Heh… I certainly received no love from the MIAA committee for not completely tapering for MIAAs.

      I don’t know about you, but I *love* getting outraged over something that happened 14 years ago at a league meet 😈 In fact, I am already considering slogans for banners and T-shirts.

      Miller, did Hunt break your prelim MIAA record with his finals swim?

      How many times has someone acheived an ‘A’ cut individually at league meet, and not made All-MIAA? I wonder if Miller carries that distinction as well?

    • #38604
      quacker
      Member

      Perhaps someone could fill us in on the process of how all-miaa is chosen.

      Does each coach get 16 votes? Is there consideration of times in finals and in prelims? Is there a special swimmer-to-diver ratio that must be fulfilled?

    • #38605
      Low Tide
      Member

      At least one diver is usually selected and never more than two (I believe).

      I’ve heard this standard rule of thumb: All A cuts and event winners, followed by remaining B cuts and then top overall finishers. But of course, I think it is entirely up to the coaches’ voting… hence Miller getting screwed the one year. That particular case is probably the worst instance I can see.

      MIAA MVP has been even more difficult to put a finger on. Some years it is the guy who scores the most points at MIAAs, some years it goes to the guy who will dominate most at NCAAs (provided he at least did well at leagues).

    • #38606
      Potsy
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      It does not matter that the Hope guys were unshaven they didn’t perform well at the meet.

      That’s a bold statement. As I remember it, they did perform well despite not being shaved.

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Should the Kzoo backstroker automatically get MIAA MVP this year regardless of what he does at the MIAA meet? Unless someone improves he is the best swimmer in the leage.

      Of course not, but I think MVP is a little different then what we are talking about.
      By making the comment about guys who didn’t shave and tapper I’m just trying to get in the voters heads a little bit. Are you really going to leave a guy like Jeff Bannink off the list during his Senior year? I’m not saying Jeff didn’t deserve it based on his performance. It’s just a theoretical example.

      Obviously we don’t have the results in front of us and that makes it tough to talk this through logically.

      Personally, I’m glad it’s a vote and not just based on the total individual points scored. It leaves some room for dealing with unusual circumstances and more importantly, creates fodder for the forum.

    • #38607
      DonCheadle
      Member

      @Potsy wrote:

      Of course not, but I think MVP is a little different then what we are talking about.
      By making the comment about guys who didn’t shave and tapper I’m just trying to get in the voters heads a little bit. Are you really going to leave a guy like Jeff Bannink off the list during his Senior year? I’m not saying Jeff didn’t deserve it based on his performance. It’s just a theoretical example.

      That is an interest statment, Potsy. Should an award go to the most deserving and have nothing to do with reputation? If Bannink (again just using him as an example), was injured would he have warranted the award? Is being injured different than focusing on a different meet? What if Bannink had bombed at Nats, would your feelings be different?

      Also, I defintely gaffed when I wrote that they did not perform well. I should have said did not perform at their highest level. Sorry about that.

    • #38608
      Potsy
      Member

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      That is an interest statment, Potsy. Should an award go to the most deserving and have nothing to do with reputation?

      I believe an award should go to the most deserving. With that said, if it’s close between two guys reputation will probably decide it.
      I’m not sure the criteria for All MIAA is well defined. Swimming rightfully focuses on the League meet, but the All MIAA designation could also take into account the regular season. It certainly does for other sports. I believe Jeff had multiple A Cuts during the regular season and that could be a factor in our example.

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      If Bannink (again just using him as an example), was injured would he have warranted the award? Is being injured different than focusing on a different meet?

      This is getting a little convoluted. Does he still have A cuts from December? If so, then he’s still not shaved and tapered for the meet right? If he’s injured early in the season and never does better then decent B-Cuts, then maybe he’s doesn’t get All MIAA.

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      What if Bannink had bombed at Nats, would your feelings be different?

      I’m just making the case for why the voters might have voted him in. They obviously didn’t know the future.

      @DonCheadle wrote:

      Also, I defintely gaffed when I wrote that they did not perform well. I should have said did not perform at their highest level. Sorry about that.

      No problem.

      For the record, I think Brian deserved it, and I wish he had received the award. My point is that it was arguably the deepest year in MIAA history (eleven different guys placed top 8 in individual events at the NCAA meet) and I don’t think you can easily scratch anyone’s name off the list to make room.

      FYI, Jack Methric placed in the top 8 individually at NCAAs in both 92 and 93, but did not make All MIAA either year.

    • #38609
      silentp
      Member

      @Potsy wrote:

      My point is that it was arguably the deepest year in MIAA history (eleven different guys placed top 8 in individual events at the NCAA meet) and I don’t think you can easily scratch anyone’s name off the list to make room.

      I believe this is correct, 2002 had only 9 but had 5 different people finished in the top 3! (This was the year the MIAA had 3 teams in the top 10). In 1993, there were 4 teams who put people in the top 8, pretty cool and ALMA SCORED!

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