Bonus heat

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    • #12129
      Goggler69
      Member

      I heard there is going to be a boner heat at UAAs. Can anyone verify?

    • #32640

      Indeed, this was the talk coming out from the final coaches meeting at UAA’s last year. Even though it’s an eight team field, coaches from some of the less successful teams were dissatisfied with the lack of swims their swimmers had at night. From what I heard, the men’s 200 back (where 7 of the 8 spots at night were from Emory) was cited as an example of how it was “unfair” that there were only 2 heats per final at night. So, I think the UAA decided to give some of those teams’ swimmers a shot at night in a C Final.

      This could very well change placings, seeing as some teams with less swimmers could get outscored by teams with many swimmers who load up on C Final points.

      My opinion (as a UAA swimmer from 2003-2006): absolutely ridiculous. Sack up and get into the final, pansies. Any coach who wants a C Final is of the mentality that every swimmer deserves a pat on the back. Stellar.

    • #32641
      silentp
      Member

      @My Spoon’s Too Big! wrote:

      Indeed, this was the talk coming out from the final coaches meeting at UAA’s last year. Even though it’s an eight team field, coaches from some of the less successful teams were dissatisfied with the lack of swims their swimmers had at night. From what I heard, the men’s 200 back (where 7 of the 8 spots at night were from Emory) was cited as an example of how it was “unfair” that there were only 2 heats per final at night. So, I think the UAA decided to give some of those teams’ swimmers a shot at night in a C Final.

      This could very well change placings, seeing as some teams with less swimmers could get outscored by teams with many swimmers who load up on C Final points.

      My opinion (as a UAA swimmer from 2003-2006): absolutely ridiculous. Sack up and get into the final, pansies. Any coach who wants a C Final is of the mentality that every swimmer deserves a pat on the back. Stellar.

      I am not sure if this has been decided or not, but i believe there are meets where the bonus heat is swam, but not scored. I do not have any meets to reference, but i believe this to be the case. I also don’t think it would have much impact on the outcome of the meet, but perhaps near the bottom it would.
      I know this is just D3, but i still don’t care all that much if people get 2nd swims. I don’t feel bad for them at all. If they are there to compete and swim faster, then they should do that in the morning. If they just want to swim for fun, then they shouldn’t care about getting a 2nd swim. And coaches if you’re upset, here’s something new that you may be interested in: recruiting. It’s kind of on the DL, but from what i understand, it allows those teams without fast swimmers to get them… perhaps this is too “out there” though.

    • #32642
      99 Red
      Member

      Hey now! I say lets hear it for the boner heat. It is a sign of health in the conference, with teams getting bigger and stronger. I’m all for making the 4th fastest 100 backstroker on a team more important. Having bonus heats makes depth more important, and it makes the meet more about the total team than it is about the best individuals. As a matter of fact, I think the boner heat is perfect for a conference like the UAA.

      Quick math to illustrate my point. 8 teams, 2 heats, 16 places. This means that on average, when the meet is highly competitive (with every team having a chance to win), ever team will expect to put 2 scorers into the finals, and being able to get a third scorer will give a team a critical advantage. Adding a 3rd heat pushes that critical advantage down a slot, making the forth scorer the critical position. If you are getting 4 scorers in, you are at least insuring that your team will finish in top half half of the teams, assuming that talent is otherwise evenly distributed.

      Now here is where the math gets awesome. 18 swimmers on a conference team. Each one gets to have 3 individual swims, meaning the team gets 54 individual swims. 13 individual events in the meet, and if each team is trying to get 4 swimmers into each event, that would take 52 swims. The slowest swimmer on your squad still has to swim well to get you your full load

      Of course, those numbers don’t mean as much if there are a bunch of teams that are fielding less than 18 swimmers, and of course diving makes the math a little fuzzier than it is here. But in the UAA, most of the squads are sending pretty close to full boats right? Bring on that boner heat!

    • #32643
      fr0gman
      Member

      I’m all for adding a bonus heat to give more kids night swims. I think it helps motivate people and helps them develop as they learn how to swim in the second session. It also teaches them to deal with racing six sessions rather than three. All things that will help each athlete develop. That’s something that I think is important…especially in a conference as deep as the UAA.

      I am opposed to scoring the heat though. Right now in the UAA the fourth fastest backstroker is important…heck for Emory last year the seventh fastest backstroker was important. I agree with p and spoon that scoing it is kind of validating the plight of the mediocure and endorsing the whole its not fair you’re better than me attitude.

    • #32644
      Djinntsai
      Member

      Yeah, NOT for the idea of making meets longer at night. If you really feel the need to swim twice, do some time trials after prelims or something, while everyone else goes and gets some rest.

    • #32645
      N Dynamite
      Member

      Just looking at the results from last year – it looks like the only team it doesn’t help is Emory. I’m not sure where the attitude came from that the “bad” teams asked for this – unless you’re classifying everyone who is not an Eagle in the “bad” category. Does anyone have any hard proof who asked for this?

      Some conferences follow the NCAA guideline of an 18 person roster limit. The UAA has what, 22? 24? That means more swimmers at the meet – more really good ones when you look at the teams competing. If the conference is that strong and deep why not reward them? The OAC went from scoring 12 to scoring 6 and everyone was outraged. Now we have a conference going from scoring 16 to 24 and there’s the same sentiment? Just playing devil’s advocate, but it seems to me this is good for the sport – maybe if the OAC gets wind that the UAA is expanding how many athletes compete and score at night they’ll reconsider their stance on finals.

    • #32646

      I’m 99% certain every team voted for it at the coaches meeting except Howell and Shively (EU and WU). It means that a team like Wash U, who can’t send a full team (only have 18), and who will get most swimmers into at least the consoles, will be at a disadvantage to CMU and NYU who will get into many C finals (ie. have full rosters with lots of C final-filler). Really, though, Emory, Wash U, NYU, and CMU should be focused on nationals anyway. You just might get results like Wash U had in 2005- 4th at conference and 8th at nationals.

    • #32647

      Being someone who has at times not made finals at Conference depending on whether I taper or not, I STILL don’t like having this C final. UAA’s runs so long at night that we don’t get back to the hotel sometimes till after 10pm. If you add another heat to every event, it just draws out the night session even more. I think keeping everyone up even later will detract from the quality of swims and really become a fatigue factor by day 3 of a long meet.

      Plus, we are collegiate athletes. This isn’t charity summer league swimming. Either make it back or watch from the deck. People can get their warm fuzzy’s and group hugs when they are 8 & under swimmers.

    • #32648

      I totally agree with Iswim. Collegiate swimming is a sport. If coaches want, they can hand out certificates of achievement at the end of the year. However, if I were a swimmer, I would rather not sit through a night heat of over 7minute 500s on the women’s side, 540s on the mens side etc…Not only will the night session take forever, it will detract from the quality of the meet.

    • #32649
      swimkin
      Member

      Why not have a bonus heat? I don’t know how many other conferences have them other than North Coast Conference. It does help swimmers from other teams, who may not make Nationals, have a second chance to swim in their finals meet. For a lot of other swimmers on less competitive teams, this is their chance to swim finals for the year.

      I noticed that the UAA only has 8 teams in its conference. The North Coast conference has 10 teams total in the conference and they offer a bonus heat. Oberlin rarely has any swimmers going to Nationals or who may make the finals heat, but their swimmers get just as pumped about swimming again or making consolations or bonus heats . (Earlham has no swimming so there are only 9 teams that swim, though, and Wabash just has a men’s swim team).

      Both Kenyon and Denison last year were allowed to have all their athletes swim in prelims. This had always been a problem in the past. As the coaches either left some home or swam them for other meets. Kenyon had over 80 swimmers from both teams swimming last year at the meet even though only 24 were allowed to return to finals. Denison, also, fielded a large squad of swimmers there, too. In spite of the additional moring swims, I don’t remember the meet last year seeming that much longer than in years past.

    • #32650
      The Treat
      Member

      @screeeeeeeeech wrote:

      I totally agree with Iswim. Collegiate swimming is a sport. If coaches want, they can hand out certificates of achievement at the end of the year. However, if I were a swimmer, I would rather not sit through a night heat of over 7minute 500s on the women’s side, 540s on the mens side etc…Not only will the night session take forever, it will detract from the quality of the meet.

      to be fair, i dont think that third heat would be people going 7 min for the girls and 5:40 for the guys. the UAA is deeper than that.

      i dont like having the third heat b/c it lowers the standard. if you want those people to have extra swims, send them to a last chance meet. there is no overly great reason to have it in my opinion.

    • #32651
      sluggo
      Member

      I don’t like the idea of a bonus heat either—makes the night sessions too long and favors the teams that have depth rather than emphasing quality.

    • #32652
      CaseBrst10
      Member

      I’ve talked to a pretty reliable source about the the boner heat at this year at UAA’s, and the answer is:

      YES, there is a Boner heat and
      YES, there will be a scoring of the Boner heat

      oh, and I don’t remember if some one corrected it but yes 22 man roster at UAAs.

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