Black eye for the Cardinal

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    • #12442
      N Dynamite
      Member

      http://gostanford.cstv.com/sports/m-swim/spec-rel/030907aaa.html

      Skip Kinney, head coach of Stanford has been suspended and won’t be coaching at NCAA’s. I won’t go into the details – I’ll let you read them yourself – but I am shocked at what he did.

      http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/3/9/coachDeletesStats

    • #36436
      Psimon3
      Member

      It’ll be interesting to see how turn it all turns out…

    • #36437

      Unreal. I admit that is really strange. But all this fuss over a media guide?

      Personally, I am more surprised with the fact that he is coercing swimmers into summer training. It’s not really clear to me from the article whether that is a greater offense than leaving names out of the media guide, though they went hand in hand in this case.

      I would have been so pissed off if my coach made me get up at 4:30 to train with masters instead of my own team. He seems like a real prick when it comes to training.

    • #36438
      oldswimnfool
      Member

      No – the issue is actually two fold –

      1. A coach CAN NOT require an athlete to workout or train out of season, and provide consequences if he/she does not. This is why he has been suspended – it is a direct violation of NCAA rules.

      2. He pulled an athlete’s name out of the “Official” program guide which included a list of the top 15 times in all events. That swimmer had broken the school record, only later at the NCAAs to have it broken again. The accusation is that he did this because said athlete refused to train over the summer.

      – Anybody wonder how much this goes on at other programs?

    • #36439
      oldswimnfool
      Member

      In a small but relevant way, I know a college basketball coach who put the guidline in place that athletes had to finish their career in good standing in order to earn a spot in their records…… – of course this was at a private Baptist school and it was meant to keep athletes out of trouble.

    • #36440
      Colbybr
      Member

      And I think that what you are talking about is fine. If Skip Kenney had expunged McLean from the records because he had been suspended by the NCAA for an illegal drug test, or thrown out of the school for plagiarism, or any of those sort of offenses, I don’t really have a problem with it. In this case it just seems petty. I feel some empathy as last february I set a pool record at my home pool as a senior. I am returning to campus next week, and I am fairly certain that the names will not be changed on the record board. I did not leave in good standing with my coach and there seems to be some preference given to changes on the record board in regard to your standing with the coach.

    • #36441
      oldswimnfool
      Member

      I guess I can see both sides – as a coach I had a swimmer quit two days before the conference champs last year. He had a job training session for a summer job scheduled over the Saturday and Sunday of the meet, and decided that was more important. It really hurt our team, not that he was a great swimmer, but having one less body to score/swim relays. If, during the season he had set an individual record, I don’t know if I would have honored that…… it is a tough position to be in. I would never have required him to train over the summer and/or punished him for it……if he choose not to do so.

    • #36442
      Colbybr
      Member

      yeah completely different. He bailed on you for his conference meet, which is kind of the biggest deal of the entire season. Actions like that show where his priorities lie, not that i’m judging it either way, and I think you would have been right to act accordingly.

    • #36443
      lirpa
      Member

      This story blows me away. I can’t believe someone with the record of Kenney could throw his career into in such a petty and obvious way.

      Forget the motivations with off season workouts or the punishment of swimming in the sprinter’s lane. I believe this but at this point they are just allegations. The dumb part is removing the name from the records. That is just math: 4:14 IS the second fastest ever at Stanford, whether the kid was a dream or a nightmare. Taking the name off is fraud and lying, no matter what the motivation.

      No matter what the resolution of this situation, this will always be what people remember as a large part of his legacy.

    • #36444
      Kari Byron
      Member

      Unbelievable. I’ll leave it at that. For a coach not to take pride in their swimmers’ swims to the point where they remove names from records books…. Just unbelievable.

    • #36445
      The Treat
      Member

      @oldswimnfool wrote:

      I guess I can see both sides – as a coach I had a swimmer quit two days before the conference champs last year. He had a job training session for a summer job scheduled over the Saturday and Sunday of the meet, and decided that was more important. It really hurt our team, not that he was a great swimmer, but having one less body to score/swim relays. If, during the season he had set an individual record, I don’t know if I would have honored that…… it is a tough position to be in. I would never have required him to train over the summer and/or punished him for it……if he choose not to do so.

      im not justifying what the kid did b/c i believe that if your employers are interested enough to give you a job, then they’ll likely understand some of your prior commitments. that being said, as important as swimming is, it doesnt pay the bill and real life is infinitely more important. i cant blame the kid for not wanting to mess up an opportunity like that.

    • #36446
      oldswimnfool
      Member

      Treat – I agree.

      Let me preface this by saying that I am not trying to start a fight – but…..

      – I think most of you are missing the point. If all these alligations(SP) prove to be true, then there should and probably will be some action taken against him. I say the following based only on the premise that they are proven to be true…. we all know that he is innocent until proven guilty. (There must be some compelling evidence if the school has suspended him prior to the NCAA Championships) He hasn’t been suspended because he changed his top 15 list. As far as the school/ncaa is concerned the list is what he says it is. HE CHEATED! Regardless of what or how you feel about the NCAA rules, they exist to try (important concept) to ensure a level playing field amongst all teams. When he disciplined or punished this swimmer for NOT training over the summer, he broke the rules. Now granted I know he isn’t the only one doing this, however, there are many of us who don’t. I run my program within the rules and guidlines set forth. If his suspension causes either the NCAA or Adminstrators everywhere to take a look at the rules and change them, or perhaps enforce them then all the better. I understand the need/desire to compete against all the other Division I teams who are training through the summer (NCAA has an allowance for swimmers who do not have a club coach to train for US Nationals with their college coach) – but to punish an athlete who doesn’t is reprehensible. I always tell my athletes at the end of the season that it is vital that they train/workout in the off season in order to maintain or even possibly get ahead of where they already are. I think every coach does this….. and those who do are rewarded by swimming faster, performing better, and perhaps by earning a coveted relay spot.

    • #36447
      Derek
      Member

      Totally reprehensible. I’m guessing that there is a very long and tumultuous story that goes along with everything that we’ve read. My gut reaction is that neither side in his matter acted professionally throughout the whole matter. Skip Kenney had better have one heck of a defense for his alleged actions.

    • #36448
      oldswimnfool
      Member

      I agree, I also want to put this forward, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Coach Kenney, I have heard him speak and of course his program and reputation speaks for itself. It would be a shame if he is fired over this – as I do know other programs have similar issues, or even possibly stronger violations. It is very interesting that this story came out one week before the Men’s D1 NCAA meet. (I would imagine that the paper has known about it for a while???)

      Actually now that I have had time to think about this – it angers me even more. All of these programs who are partaking in this process affect the rest of the swimming and diving community. If this allows a team to take a full roster, it limits the other teams – more specifially those in the mid-majors/ or non-top 25 programs. As a result this affects their recruiting, and before you know it a team who one may have had a couple of individuals a year qualifying – now is down to none – and then as they are seen by their Administration as non-competitive they are dropped……. I know this is quite a stretch – but look at how long he has been coaching – and say that this practice started 5 years into his tenure (not that he is the only one promoting this behavior) – it is plenty of time to affect the swimming landscape…….

    • #36449
      neswim
      Member

      @Derek wrote:

      Totally reprehensible. I’m guessing that there is a very long and tumultuous story that goes along with everything that we’ve read. My gut reaction is that neither side in his matter acted professionally throughout the whole matter. Skip Kenney had better have one heck of a defense for his alleged actions.

      You are right on….this is not a total suprise to anyone with inside knowledge of this program. I think this is a real positive, longer term for swimming, that this be exposed. Now its critical that the full story, this goes back many years, be brought to light for the good of swimming…or he resign and we all move on.

      Too bad…doesn’t help those of who love the sport.

    • #36450
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah we are really only hearing one side of the story to this point. I can not make up my mind on what I think until I hear what Skip’s party is saying. If all of this is true, and I am sure some of it is, obviously something needs to be done. I also think about some of the amazing things Skip has done, and it really saddens me even more. He is now probably closing in on retirement age, so he may never make it back.

      The thing that we are all forgetting is the impact this will have on his team this week. This would be one helluva way to try to win a nat championship, my heart goes out to those guys

    • #36451
      DonCheadle
      Member

      The reason we are not hearing anything from the other side is because SKip is known to be a dick and has very few supporters. It is kind of sad

    • #36452
      swim5599
      Member

      I do not know Skip Kenney personally so I can’t say for sure if he is a dick or not, but would that many great swimmers swim for him if he was?

    • #36453
      neswim
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I do not know Skip Kenney personally so I can’t say for sure if he is a dick or not, but would that many great swimmers swim for him if he was?

      This is in no way a comment on Kenney but history shows the answer is yes, especially at the Div I level. More than a handful of schools have had such coaches who are still able to recruit top swimmer despite such coaches. Some swimmers get so dazzled by the glow associted with big name schools or “big time” athletics that they ignore certain warning signs. Its not easy to sift through such “noise” especially during the stressful time of selecting a college.

    • #36454
      swim5599
      Member

      I agree with you to a point, but if that is the case do you really stay and swim somewhere for 4 years if you are miserable?

      The only swimmer I can think of off the top of my head that did not swim at stanford all four years was Dan Trupin. I do not know why he did not swim his senior year, but for the most part people stick it out under Kenney.

    • #36455

      im sure skip is a great coach.. but i still feel that any coach.. whether they are amazing or just average would do fine at a school like stanford. I mean when you have one of the best pool facilities in the US and one of the best academic schools in the world, and tons of money to throw at high school seniors, you are going to get good recruits..

    • #36456
      N Dynamite
      Member

      I don’t think he does this to everyone. You just don’t want to get on his bad side. Those are the people that are miserable and wouldn’t stick it out. The kid that they reported on was a senior when it happened to him – by that time he didn’t have much choice. At least that’s how In interpretted the article and the comments below it.

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