Analysis – Best Taper Coach, Best Taper Swimmer

Forums Conferences Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Analysis – Best Taper Coach, Best Taper Swimmer

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    • #12994

      Best taper coach = team sum of time dropped from seed to finals divided by number of 50’s.

      Best taper swimmer = swimmer sum of time dropped from seed to finals divided by number of 50’s.

      Whoever has the highest ratio wins. We all know who the best recruiters are. But which coach does the best with his swimmers? My bet is Carleton. Unless soomeone has a bunch of time to kill today, I’ll compile this for the MIAC.

    • #43572
      silentp
      Member

      @Mac of the MIAC wrote:

      Best taper coach = team sum of time dropped from seed to finals divided by number of 50’s.

      Best taper swimmer = swimmer sum of time dropped from seed to finals divided by number of 50’s.

      Whoever has the highest ratio wins. We all know who the best recruiters are. But which coach does the best with his swimmers? My bet is Carleton. Unless soomeone has a bunch of time to kill today, I’ll compile this for the MIAC.

      Doesn’t this assume an equal midseason strategy? Carleton, to my knowledge, does not shave or taper midseason, which would lead to biased results.

      Perhaps the best strategy would be to look at PRs or 06 bests and base the drops on those?

      Thoughts? – I like the idea though.

    • #43573

      I would take out the last meet before the break. Like when Tapia-Rodriguez went a 1:53 in the 200 fly. And when some of the Olaf and GAC guys dropped time at Carthage.

      Then again, that might make this analysis much tougher to pull together (since you can’t just look at a top 25 sheet).

      My bet for best taper swimmer is Mitch Stepleton, MAC.

      Best taper coach: Jon Carlson, GAC. (Main reason being that GAC has the most distance swimmers, and this analysis will probably favor distance guys).

    • #43574
      wonderboy33
      Member

      This analysis is irrelevant. There is no magic taper. How about you call the best taper swimmer the biggest sack of regular season crap instead?

    • #43575
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      I agree with SilentP, I don’t think this methodology will answer your question. Best “taper coach” is largely subjective and would be very dificult to quantify. If you use a season best time, the team that does not do a mid-season taper meet will (should) win easily. If you are trying to isolate the “taper drop,” you might be better off using the results from a meet 4-6 weeks before conference when every team is about to start tapering. This method is flawed as well. This would work ok if everyone swam thier conference events 1 month before the conference meet. They do not, but you should be able to get a statistically valid sample anyway, and then divide the result by the number of swims used for each team to arrive at your average drop.

      A more interesting analysis would be to chart individual’s improvement as a percentage of thier lifetime best, but this does not isolate the taper obviously.

    • #43576

      Agreed. But to what extent do GAC and STO taper for Carthage? Do both teams shave? It looks as if Olaf shaves and does a full taper, whereas GAC might just rest. Can a current or recent swimmer shed some light on this? I do think we have enough data to do a proper analysis given the correct status of GAC and Olaf’s mid-season taper.

    • #43577
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      I think using season best times v. taper times between GAC and St. Olaf is absolutely valid, but this leaves out Carleton et. al.

    • #43578

      I think if you just eliminate the “taper” meet for each team (last meet prior to Christmas break), then every team should be on a relatively equal playing field.

      Wonderboy, this is not an analysis to find out who the best coach or swimmer is, but to see what swimmers and coaches taper the best/most.

      Like I remember Dave Cameron from Carleton used to drop a ton of time at conference. He might be seeded 4th or 5th coming into the meet, but you knew he’d be there at the end of the race competing for first. I can’t find any times to back this up, it just seemed like he (and a lot of other Carleton swimmers) dropped the most time.

      For freakish drops, I think there are a few SJU guys that come to mind for me as well. I can’t remember his name (Crunchy Sock or someone else might), but I there was this short dude from SJU back in the late 90s who always seemed to go from something like the 30th seed in a race, to end up 9th every year. Also, Ryan McGovern went from like a 2:27 200 breast his senior year down to a 2:13 (good enough for 3rd that year behind Harper and Steinamen I believe). I think shaving off his sweater vest was as big of a factor as the taper itself. It should be noted though that his workout consisted primarily of naked pull-ups, shower break-dancing, library streaking, and peeing off the 5 meter platform at the Palestra. This training also really helped out Phil Steger, who still holds the SJU 400IM record.

    • #43580

      Dave Cameron is the best taper swimmer I have ever seen.

    • #43579
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      Kevin O’Laughlin was a monster taper swimmer. I’d put him up there with Cameron. Cameron also turned bright purple in every race, which was awesome.

    • #43581
      Monti
      Member

      @CRUNCHYSOCK wrote:

      Kevin O’Laughlin was a monster taper swimmer. I’d put him up there with Cameron. Cameron also turned bright purple in every race, which was awesome.

      You can include Matt O’Laughlin in here as well for his 1 season.

    • #43582
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      That was a little different. I think that was more of an “I finally figured out how to swim” than a straight up taper.

    • #43583
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t there kids on the big teams like Olaf and GAC who don’t make the conference team? If so, you would have to factor in their taper for the last dual meet of the season. This analysis will not net the big names like Kevin O., instead you’ll get some yahoo GAC guy that couldn’t swim until he swam a rested 200 fly at the final dual or some yahoo MAC swimmer that wouldn’t make the conference team at GAC or Olaf. That’s why it’s irrelevant.

    • #43584

      I would tend not to go with the best Taper coach. It really doesn’t matter how much time a team drops in time. If they are all swimming with Drag suits in meets, no Caps, doing some stupid amount of yardage that is really not benefiting them, it does not mean its a good taper coach, just a coach who doesn’t know how to train a swimmer. Also a team without year rounds swimmers or much talent is going to look better in the taper then a team with year round swimmers and talented because they will be swimming closer to their best times. The better measurment would probably be a precentage of life time bests from the meet. This means that the swimmers are making progress over the course of the season and careers and being in top form when it counts.

      Best taper swimmer- As a coach I would not care. Give me the swimmer who I knows steps it up every time. We had a kid on my high school team that swam the 500 and dropped about 30 seconds on their taper. It wasn’t because he tapered great, its because he did not work the dual meets because he did not like the pain, and would step it up for one race. If he had worked at his race a couple of times, was used to being out of his comfort zone, he probably would have been 10 seconds faster over all. Also each swimmer is different, some get broken down more then others (either because that is what their body is like or they just work harder). Some sprinters have great 50’s during the season, terrribel 100’s and 200’s but drop a ton of time in the 100 and 200 in the taper because they can’t handle more then 2000 yard a practice and are complete broken down.

    • #43585
      wonderboy33
      Member

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      I would tend not to go with the best Taper coach. It really doesn’t matter how much time a team drops in time. If they are all swimming with Drag suits in meets, no Caps, doing some stupid amount of yardage that is really not benefiting them, it does not mean its a good taper coach, just a coach who doesn’t know how to train a swimmer.

      Careful, take a sip of the kool-aid.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      Best taper swimmer- As a coach I would not care. Give me the swimmer who I knows steps it up every time.

      Seriously, those are fighting words around here.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      We had a kid on my high school team that swam the 500 and dropped about 30 seconds on their taper. It wasn’t because he tapered great, its because he did not work the dual meets because he did not like the pain, and would step it up for one race. If he had worked at his race a couple of times, was used to being out of his comfort zone, he probably would have been 10 seconds faster over all.

      Ok, now you’re just teasing us.

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      Also each swimmer is different, some get broken down more then others (either because that is what their body is like or they just work harder). Some sprinters have great 50’s during the season, terrribel 100’s and 200’s but drop a ton of time in the 100 and 200 in the taper because they can’t handle more then 2000 yard a practice and are complete broken down.

      Ah yes, that’s better. You’re right though, everyone tapers differently. Great post.

    • #43586

      Again, you guys are missing the point. Maybe the wording is poor in saying the “best.” I think the point of this analysis is to see what teams/swimmers drop the most time? Yes there are lots of variables:

      Do you have 50 swimmers on the team?
      Do you have 5 guys who should be the “before” picture in a Subway ad?
      Does this guy wear Landon Piruis’ old S2000 for every meet?
      Does the team taper mid-year?
      Will some guys be tapering for the last dual/invite versus conference?

      There are more I’m sure, and I think these can all be factored in.

      As a guy who spends a lot of time gambling, something like this is very helpful.

      If I looked at an analysis that told me that SJU swimmers drop more time at taper than UST guys (on average), it would sway how I might bet on either team to place 3rd or 4th or 5th this year. If I saw that Ben Hanson tends to drop more time when tapered than Sky-Dave, I might bet on Hanson over Sky-Dave in the Mile or 500 (especially if I am getting odds). It also would help in how I look at fantasy swimming… which I need plenty of help in.

    • #43587
      wonderboy33
      Member

      Oh, it’s for prediction purposes, then by all means, carry on. I thought you were trying to determine the best taper coach and taper swimmer so that it would prove a point. I don’t think the analysis would prove anything but it might give you a better idea of conference placing. My apologies.

    • #43588

      Actually, I think it’s pretty feasible to rate the coaches based on taper and recruiting and that’s what I plan to do. I’d like to give them a Mac of the MIAC rating. Sort of like a Moody bond rating. This will all only add to my already impressive d3 fantasy swimming deck cred.

      I also plan to use this data to gamble.

    • #43589
      IMerAve
      Member

      I think the best team of Taper Coaches in the Conference are Andy Hagen and Lindsay DeLaRosby. Hands down. Andy coaches the Mid-D crew and Lindsay the distance crew at GAC. I think those two combined (good looks, personality, and a GREAT style of coaching) have some of the best taper swimmers.

    • #43590

      @IMerAve wrote:

      I think the best team of Taper Coaches in the Conference are Andy Hagen and Lindsay DeLaRosby. Hands down. Andy coaches the Mid-D crew and Lindsay the distance crew at GAC. I think those two combined (good looks, personality, and a GREAT style of coaching) have some of the best taper swimmers.

      If assistant to the head coach, Andy Hagen were a prodigy of head coach, Jon Carlson, or even a disciple of Gary White, I may agree with you. But I think it’s been well esteblished that Mr. Hagens coaching roots are firmly planted in the ground and pound philosophies of Winona Senior HS Swimming.

      But to Andy’s credit (or detriment), he was one of the biggest taper swimmers I have seen.

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