Amherst-Wiliams Meet

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    • #12955
      Morecowbell
      Member

      OK so the meet of the year to date is this Saturday at Pratt Pool at Amherst.
      Any thoughts out there?
      This meet is one week later than usual so I’m curious to see what shape the teams are in.
      I think Amherst Women make it two in a row in a very close meet. And no surprise, the Williams Men are too deep and should beat a surprisingly good Amherst team.

    • #42922
      Nescacfan
      Member

      While the Amherst men have improved this year, they still lack Williams’ strength and depth. Watch for Amherst’s Witske battling Williams FY Wampler in the 100 free and Witske versus Chris Millen or Norman Scott in the 200 Free and Amherst FY Colby battling it out for wins in the longer 500 and 1000 freestyle events with Williams FY Roberson. Williams has the strength in both the fly with Scott, Wentworth-Ping and Millen and breast with Felker and Bonewell. The back may more competitive as Williams’ Bullitt, Blum and McDonald battle Amherst’s Wascom Fitzgerald. Scott and Millen are also possible contenders in the back events. They would be favorites. Millen is the clear favorite in the 200 IM.

      The meet will be kept reasonably close by Amherst’s performance in the diving by Boyd, Bookman, and Brown transfer, Robinson. In his first Amherst meet against Hamilton last Saturday, Robinson scored 317 in the 3M and 295 in the 1M diving events.

    • #42923
      Morecowbell
      Member

      Amherst-Williams Women’s meet was just as close as people thought as Amherst beat Williams for the second straight year. It came down to the final Relay which Amherst won. It was a tight exciting duel of exceptional talent. Sasser broke three pool records, freshman Kendra Stern broke two records and there were numerous national qualifying times established from both teams.
      The Williams men took 1-2 in the opening relay and never looked back. Williams swimmers Norman Scott (200 Fly) Ben Wampler(50 Free) and Tyler Bonewell (200 Breast) broke Pratt records during the meet. Amhert’s Christian Witzke (200 Free) and Tad Holmchick (50/100 Free) paced the Jeffs and Amherst was helped by a very strong performance from new diver Kai Robinson.

    • #42924
      Nescacfan
      Member

      @Morecowbell wrote:

      Amherst-Williams Women’s meet was just as close as people thought as Amherst beat Williams for the second straight year. It came down to the final Relay which Amherst won. It was a tight exciting duel of exceptional talent. Sasser broke three pool records, freshman Kendra Stern broke two records and there were numerous national qualifying times established from both teams.The Williams men took 1-2 in the opening relay and never looked back. Williams swimmers Norman Scott (200 Fly) Ben Wampler(50 Free) and Tyler Bonewell (200 Breast) broke Pratt records during the meet. Amhert’s Christian Witzke (200 Free) and Tad Holmchick (50/100 Free) paced the Jeffs and Amherst was helped by a very strong performance from new diver Kai Robinson.

      Do you think FY Wampler will break 20.50 by the end of the season?   He swam a 21.15 in the Amherst dual meet.

    • #42925
      Colbybr
      Member

      @Nescacfan wrote:

      @Morecowbell wrote:

      Amherst-Williams Women’s meet was just as close as people thought as Amherst beat Williams for the second straight year. It came down to the final Relay which Amherst won. It was a tight exciting duel of exceptional talent. Sasser broke three pool records, freshman Kendra Stern broke two records and there were numerous national qualifying times established from both teams.The Williams men took 1-2 in the opening relay and never looked back. Williams swimmers Norman Scott (200 Fly) Ben Wampler(50 Free) and Tyler Bonewell (200 Breast) broke Pratt records during the meet. Amhert’s Christian Witzke (200 Free) and Tad Holmchick (50/100 Free) paced the Jeffs and Amherst was helped by a very strong performance from new diver Kai Robinson.

      Do you think FY Wampler will break 20.50 by the end of the season? He swam a 21.15 in the Amherst dual meet.

      I predict Wampler somewhere in the 20.7-20.8 range.

    • #42926
      Nescacfan
      Member

      @Morecowbell wrote:

      Amherst-Williams Women’s meet was just as close as people thought as Amherst beat Williams for the second straight year. It came down to the final Relay which Amherst won. It was a tight exciting duel of exceptional talent. Sasser broke three pool records, freshman Kendra Stern broke two records and there were numerous national qualifying times established from both teams.
      The Williams men took 1-2 in the opening relay and never looked back. Williams swimmers Norman Scott (200 Fly) Ben Wampler(50 Free) and Tyler Bonewell (200 Breast) broke Pratt records during the meet. Amhert’s Christian Witzke (200 Free) and Tad Holmchick (50/100 Free) paced the Jeffs and Amherst was helped by a very strong performance from new diver Kai Robinson.

      The chances are quite good of Kendra Stern owning the the two sprint freestyle NESCAC records after swimming the 50 free [23.67] and 100 free[51.35] in a mid-season dual meet The NESCAC record times, currently owned by Conn College’s Kate Kovenock, are 23.32 and 50.64. I also think the 200 free record of 1:50.32 held by Kendra’s sister, Meaghan, is at risk.

    • #42927
      griz
      Member

      How about Stormin’ Norman? He must be training pretty hard to be going as fast as he is. He’s got near the top time in the 200 fly and I would think he hasn’t really “tapered” like most of the other guys with similar times…

    • #42928
      Nescacfan
      Member

      @griz wrote:

      How about Stormin’ Norman? He must be training pretty hard to be going as fast as he is. He’s got near the top time in the 200 fly and I would think he hasn’t really “tapered” like most of the other guys with similar times…

      The same goes for Sasser in the 100 back, 200 back and 200 IM.

    • #42929
      Colbybr
      Member

      @griz wrote:

      How about Stormin’ Norman? He must be training pretty hard to be going as fast as he is. He’s got near the top time in the 200 fly and I would think he hasn’t really “tapered” like most of the other guys with similar times…

      Hard to predict. Last year was obviously a great year for Norman. He performed great at the end of the season and won a national title. His freshmen year, if you remember, he was 1:52 even earlier in the season and did not drop any lower than 1:51 at the end of the season. I think last year is more likely but dont expect him to taper to 1:47-48 in the 200 fly

    • #42930
      swim5599
      Member

      Scott is a helluva flyer. I could see him pop off 1:48 high at the end of the year.

    • #42931
      griz
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      Hard to predict. Last year was obviously a great year for Norman. He performed great at the end of the season and won a national title. His freshmen year, if you remember, he was 1:52 even earlier in the season and did not drop any lower than 1:51 at the end of the season. I think last year is more likely but dont expect him to taper to 1:47-48 in the 200 fly

      You don’t think he may have been so super-inspired by winning a national championship that he put in some hard training over the summer and in the fall? I’d like to think he could get under 1:50.

      As for B. Wampler, I’ve heard he’s bought into the Kuster program, packing on muscle…could be a pretty good taper for him.

    • #42932
      Colbybr
      Member

      @griz wrote:

      @Colbybr wrote:

      Hard to predict. Last year was obviously a great year for Norman. He performed great at the end of the season and won a national title. His freshmen year, if you remember, he was 1:52 even earlier in the season and did not drop any lower than 1:51 at the end of the season. I think last year is more likely but dont expect him to taper to 1:47-48 in the 200 fly

      You don’t think he may have been so super-inspired by winning a national championship that he put in some hard training over the summer and in the fall? I’d like to think he could get under 1:50.

      As for B. Wampler, I’ve heard he’s bought into the Kuster program, packing on muscle…could be a pretty good taper for him.

      I’ve heard quite the converse. Every day it is a chore for Kuster to get him to push off the wall and do something or anything.

    • #42933
      griz
      Member

      I guess I just meant that he was lifting, maybe, which is more than S. Wampler has done. And maybe lifting can go a long way on that frame of his.

    • #42934
      Colbybr
      Member

      @griz wrote:

      I guess I just meant that he was lifting, maybe, which is more than S. Wampler has done. And maybe lifting can go a long way on that frame of his.

      Are you kidding? Sam Wampler is ripped

    • #42935
      swim5599
      Member

      I just have a hard time believing that Kuster would stand for a kid that would not be willing to work.

    • #42936
      Colbybr
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I just have a hard time believing that Kuster would stand for a kid that would not be willing to work.

      Really? You haven’t seen elite coaches bend over backwards for their most talented swimmers? I feel like this happens all the time.

    • #42937
      Nescacfan
      Member

      in the non-scholarship environment of D-III, I suspect that coaches sometimes have to coddle talented, but not strongly committed, swimmers. It’s clear what this “star treatment” can do to team morale. I also assume that some talented swimmers get a coach’s support in the admissions process, but then never swim in college.

    • #42938
      Colbybr
      Member

      @Nescacfan wrote:

      in the non-scholarship environment of D-III, I suspect that coaches sometimes have to coddle talented, but not strongly committed, swimmers. It’s clear what this “star treatment” can do to team morale. I also assume that some talented swimmers get a coach’s support in the admissions process, but then never swim in college.

      I would argue that this can happen at any program at any level. Coaches are competitive and feel the pressure to win, and win now. So its a simple equation, put up with talented malcontent now because “man we could really use him in the 50 free this weekend against Big State”. The real question is whether it is good for your team long term. You risk alienating kids on the team who are following your program and may not be as talented, which is more of a long term concern. I think coaches also weigh the fact that if you are a good coach each swimmer ends up getting treated a little differently.

      I think before i got into the profession I believed that the best coaches got their talented swimmers to follow their programs without question. After some time I think it makes sense that good coaches are probably better at making these guys fit in, but also at convincing both the talented swimmer that they are getting what they want while not losing the rest of their team.

    • #42939
      swim5599
      Member

      I will tell you right now coddling someone talented is terrible for team morale, because everyone is thinking to themselves “if I have to do this why doesn’t he/she” I don’t care how much the person delivers at the big meets.

    • #42940
      Colbybr
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I will tell you right now coddling someone talented is terrible for team morale, because everyone is thinking to themselves “if I have to do this why doesn’t he/she” I don’t care how much the person delivers at the big meets.

      I definitely agree with you. Terrible for team morale. But I have seen it at a lot of places.

    • #42941
      Nescacfan
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I will tell you right now coddling someone talented is terrible for team morale, because everyone is thinking to themselves “if I have to do this why doesn’t he/she” I don’t care how much the person delivers at the big meets.

      I definitely agree with you. Terrible for team morale. But I have seen it at a lot of places.

      What % of NESCAC swimmers who qualify for nationals [a proxy for talent] do you think are coddled by their coaches? Are the %’s different for men and women?

    • #42942
      Colbybr
      Member

      Its tough to tell because no one can speak to the situation at every school. At Colby I would say it was at least 75%.

    • #42943
      Nescacfan
      Member

      @Colbybr wrote:

      Its tough to tell because no one can speak to the situation at every school. At Colby I would say it was at least 75%.

      755 IS a lot higher than I would have guessed. I thought it would be about 25%.

    • #42944
      Colbybr
      Member

      Case in point: during my time at Colby an all-american woman threw temper tantrums at nearly every dual meet to the point that she would have to be escorted off the pool deck. She also started training when and where she wanted and even doing as she wanted in practice. She was allowed to do so for over a year without any real sanction. At the same time, a member of the women’s team who had never been a problem, supported her teammates and worked hard, following all team rules, etc, was made persona non grata by the coaching staff on the basis of not being fast enough. Eventually the breaststroker was not allowed to return, and the swimmer did come back as a diver when there were no female divers on the team. I have a laundry list of these from my time there and I suspect from talking to others that it did happen at other schools as well.

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