50 Free champ

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    • #12176
      lane 6er
      Member

      Who does everyone think will win the 50 this year? I know this has been talked about on the national forum for a bit, but what do people think about MIAC’s? Is this the year Scott loses? will it be Koch who beats him? Or will there be a 1-2 from SJU in Joey and Sam? Personally, i think that Koch will win, Christianson and Chapman go 2-3 and a GAC swimmer doesn’t even get all-conference.

    • #33256
      Vincent Vega
      Member

      WOW! That’s a bold statement. I like it. Here’s a bolder statement. GAC has big time talent in the sprint freestyles. Hagemeyer, Amundson, Wakefield and many more that should be sprinting much better than they are. Hell, Scott Hagemeyer is so big he can practically reach from one end f the pool to the other! So, if they do not claim a top three spot in a sprint event, should they look at a coaching change? If swimmers of this calliber are not able to find the motivation or training to achieve a top three spot at the MIAC conference meet, much less a national placing, there seems to be a problem. And since the problem is apparent with more than one swimmer, is it at a coachoing level?

      Also, I saw a post on Westby swimming the last leg of the 200 Fly in a 36. Was he actually swimming? Or just sculling the last 50?

    • #33257
      lirpa
      Member

      Vega,

      Hopefully you are just trying to stir the pot with that last post. If GAC does not place someone in the top 3 in the 50 their coach should be replaced? That seems a little harsh!

    • #33258

      Hagemeyer or Amundson better both be in the top three. Those guys are huge and and have a lot of talent. I would think Carlson would be upset if they did not both get top three at conference. The only person I think could beat them would be koch. It will be a great race between those three.

    • #33259
      The15mMark
      Member

      @lane 6er wrote:

      Is this the year Scott loses? will it be Koch who beats him? Or will there be a 1-2 from SJU in Joey and Sam? Personally, i think that Koch will win, Christianson and Chapman go 2-3 and a GAC swimmer doesn’t even get all-conference.

      Looking at the MIAC top times list and meet results from this season, it would be my guess that Hagemeyer doesn’t take 4 straight in the 50. He came in with a bang winning as a frosh with a 20.41. Since then he’s been 20.8’s and this season his best is 21 high something. Then again, he could be training wicked hard right now, taper like a bat out of he!!, and surprise everyone.

      As far as picking who the upset would go to, my vote would go to either Amundson or Koch. Truth be told, I think the edge goes to Koch right now. I’ll give Sam and Joey some props for their improvements, but the won’t be hangin’ with the big dogs come February. I’m calling it like this: Koch-Amundson-Hagemeyer.

      @Vincent Vega wrote:

      … if they do not claim a top three spot in a sprint event, should they look at a coaching change?

      Definitely not. Carlson has his head on straight and his mind focus when it comes to coaching swimmers. And that goes for any level. He gives his all whether your on the team for the team or you’re on the team to score at NCAAs. If in the unlikely event that no GAC sprinter makes top 3 and MIACs, I wouldn’t look to Jon and point the finger. After 14 or however many years he’s been there I doubt it’s his program that’s the problem. Maybe instead we should look at the athletes themselves? It’s possible that the Clyesdales from GAC are just getting old. Swimmers all peak at different ages, maybe these guys are past theirs? That’s not to say that I’m not expecting big things out of them, but maybe their glory days are over?

      Case in point: Hagemeyer rocked the MIAC scene his first two years here with a 20.41 50 free, 19.6 anchor split on the 200 FR, and 44.6 anchor on the 400 FR as a frosh, and a 50.61 100 back as a sophomore at Conference. He was rewriting records boards like nobody’s business. Since sophomore year, it’s been a little quiet out of him. My guess is that either his head is no longer in it, or he’s had his time in the spotlight.

      Sidenote to Hagemeyer:
      I’m not trying to pick on you, make you feel bad, or anything like that. I’m just throwing fact out there for the masses. It is my sincere hope that you plan to go out with a bang and dazzle us all one more time. I know I really enjoy watching a guy who’s 6’7″, probably 235 lbs work through the water the way you did.

    • #33260

      @Vincent Vega wrote:

      So, if they do not claim a top three spot in a sprint event, should they look at a coaching change?

      I read this as a shot at Assistant to the Head Coach, Andy Hagen. Trust me, Hagen, and to a lesser degree Carlson, will have these guys ready to swim. I think that Admunson is going to have a great final MIAC performance, and will be Koch’s main competition. I don’t know what Hagemeyer is going to do, but I assume when it comes down to it, he’ll be right there.

    • #33261
      sharkboy
      Member

      Say what you want about Hagemeyer- he’s already peaked, he doesn’t have it anymore, etc. He’s tall, he’s strong in the water, and he can get off the blocks. It’s only a 50, and I don’t think he’s going to give up and just let Admunson, Koch, or anyone else swim away to the finish.

    • #33262

      My money is on Amundson. And I mean that literally.

    • #33263

      There’s one thing y’all are leaving out…Mr. Hagemeyer did not swim a mid-season taper meet (ie Carthage) this year due to some GRE business. I’d figure that he’d post up something better than that 21.high there.

    • #33264
      iSwim
      Member

      @Eminence Front wrote:

      … Mr. Hagemeyer did not swim a mid-season taper meet (ie Carthage) this year due to some GRE business. I’d figure that he’d post up something better than that 21.high there.

      Any ideas as to how this might affect him at the Conference meet? I would venture to say that he would’ve posted a 21 low with the rest of the MIAC big dogs at Carthage, but without tapering this season yet he won’t have had that fast, slick feeling you get from a taper do you think that he’ll be able to move from 21 high to the 20 high to mid it will take to win?

      Provided that he goes on the team’s training trip and takes taper very seriously, I think he’s still got a shot at the 4-peat in the 50. Moreover, I think he’ll take back his reign on the 100 free and back this year. I’d love to see another 50. out of him. That was one amazing race to watch.

    • #33265
      EnThralled
      Member

      I think that the 50 this year will go to Koch, but it will be an extremely close race between him and the Gusties. Amundson has been swimming much faster this season than last, and he could prove to be the major threat for Koch. I’m not sure Hagemeyer will repeat on the 50, but I would definately give him an advantage in the 100, even though he lost it last year to Koch. Hagemeyer has amazing turns which gives him a great leg-up in that race.

    • #33266

      In the words of procrastinator, the 50 is a fickle event.

      I’m picking Koch because he’s on my fantasy team.

      Carlson losing his job over not getting all conference in an event his teams have dominated? That would be like Olaf firing Bave Hauck* for not winning men’s conference in 2000.

      *combo of Dave and Bob… get it?[/quote]

    • #33267

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      In the words of procrastinator, the 50 is a fickle event.

      I’m picking Koch because he’s on my fantasy team.

      Carlson losing his job over not getting all conference in an event his teams have dominated? That would be like Olaf firing Bave Hauck* for not winning men’s conference in 2000.

      *combo of Dave and Bob… get it?

      [/quote]

      Bave Hauck? Gold. But learn to use the “quote” button, Chappel Partner.

    • #33268

      Suck it Mac. You know I don’t know how to use the quote thingy.

      I heard Philly offered Iverson straight up for Sky-Dave. Carlson turned it down. Good call.

      Has Westby swam a 50 this year (or ever)? I’d like to see what he’d go.

    • #33269

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Suck it Mac. You know I don’t know how to use the quote thingy.

      I heard Philly offered Iverson straight up for Sky-Dave. Carlson turned it down. Good call.

      Has Westby swam a 50 this year (or ever)? I’d like to see what he’d go.

      Nelson Westby has the 5th best time in the 50 this year at 21.66. At Nationals, Westby split a 20.6 with a relay start. Scott Hagemeyer split a 20.1. I’d say Scott would beat Nelson head to head in the 50. Having said that, Nelson has improved this year, and the verdict is still out on Scott.

      But this conversation really needs to turn to Skylar Davis, who would dominate the 50 if he chose to swim it.

    • #33270

      Sky-Dave would only win the 50 if everyone had to swim 5,000 yards right before the race.

    • #33271
      iSwim
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      Sky-Dave would only win the 50 if everyone had to swim 5,000 yards right before the race.

      I’m throwing the BS flag in your face on that one. Davis is an incredible distance swimmer, I’ll give you that. But when it comes to sprint, the guy’s only got one speed. He’s probably the only guy I know who could go out in a 26 in a mile and hold it. Just wait until Natty’s, then you’ll see.

      But back to the 50, he’d get dominated by Koch, Amundson, and Hagemeyer regardless of any prior swimming. The best/worst thing about the 50 is that it’s such a crap shoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t.

    • #33272
      CRUNCHYSOCK
      Member

      Duh. Remind me to never watch Star Wars with iSwim.

      “Dude, that is total BS. If Luke’s lightsaber can cut steel, it would totally cut right through Darth’s lightsaber. This is so fake.”

    • #33273

      R-Tard

      @iSwim wrote:

      I’m throwing the BS flag in your face on that one. Davis is an incredible distance swimmer, I’ll give you that. But when it comes to sprint, the guy’s only got one speed. He’s probably the only guy I know who could go out in a 26 in a mile and hold it. Just wait until Natty’s, then you’ll see.

      But back to the 50, he’d get dominated by Koch, Amundson, and Hagemeyer regardless of any prior swimming. The best/worst thing about the 50 is that it’s such a crap shoot. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t.

    • #33274
      iSwim
      Member

      Chill guys, I’m on your side!

    • #33275

      You’re right iSwim. I change my mind. Sky-Dave would win the 50 if everyone had to swim a million miles right before the race.

    • #33276
      Kari Byron
      Member

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      You’re right iSwim. I change my mind. Sky-Dave would win the 50 if everyone had to swim a million miles right before the race.

      I don’t know that much about him, but from what I gather he doesn’t have much for raw speed. But, if you tire everyone out with a million mile workout then I suppose he could take it!

    • #33277
      middie07
      Member

      Ridiculous Star Wars arguments aside, don’t bring down S.D. by commenting on his ability to swim a 50. “Crapshoot” is the best way to describe it, and though it takes strength and skill to do well, the fact that people can win (or tie) it at the Olympics without a real effort to train hard is a testament to the status of the 50 as an event scarcely dependent on quality of training or overall fitness, but mostly on pure talent. Davis clearly is a better swimmer than should be discussed as “able to win the 50 if everyone has to swim a 5,000 before it”, let him be just be a phenomenal distance swimmer. This is not to belittle Amundson or Koch (who are both clearly amazing athletes), but the 50 isn’t all it’s cracked up to be as a standard of swimming ability.

    • #33278
      The Treat
      Member

      @middie07 wrote:

      Ridiculous Star Wars arguments aside, don’t bring down S.D. by commenting on his ability to swim a 50. “Crapshoot” is the best way to describe it, and though it takes strength and skill to do well, the fact that people can win (or tie) it at the Olympics without a real effort to train hard is a testament to the status of the 50 as an event scarcely dependent on quality of training or overall fitness, but mostly on pure talent. Davis clearly is a better swimmer than should be discussed as “able to win the 50 if everyone has to swim a 5,000 before it”, let him be just be a phenomenal distance swimmer. This is not to belittle Amundson or Koch (who are both clearly amazing athletes), but the 50 isn’t all it’s cracked up to be as a standard of swimming ability.

      yes it takes talent to win the 50, but it takes talent to win anything. also, lets make gary hall the exception and not the rule. im sure almost every other person who has won the 50 in the history of the olympics has worked their entire lives to get there. there are plenty of sprinters who work their ass off, so lets not try and stereotype. sprinters could say that distance swimmers slack off in the weight room and distance swimmers could say that sprinters slack off in cardio sets. thats just how it is sometimes, though i know there are some d-guys who work hard in the weight room and there are some sprinters who work hard at cardio sets. after all, you cant swim the 50 for all your seven events at conf or nats.

    • #33279
      middie07
      Member

      I certainly agree that you can’t swim the 50 as all seven events at Conference (you can only do it as three). And I would then argue that the other events (for Koch and Amundson, the 100 and 200) probably require more conditioning and strength than the 50. You do not see too many people going within a couple of seconds of their (tapered) 200 times early in the season, yet many go within a few tenths of their tapered 50 times. Take a look sometime at meets where former swimmers who have not trained in months swim, then tell me how pulling off a 50 within spitting distance of their best ever is evidence of an event requiring huge amounts of strength and stamina. Technique and talent win out in such a short race.

    • #33280

      @middie07 wrote:

      Technique and talent win out in such a short race.

      As someone once said to me. “Sprinters are born, distance swimmers are made!”

    • #33281
      swim5599
      Member

      I would agree with that statement. However I would argue that a sprinter can be made as well. I worked with a couple of athletes that would hardly be considered sprinters, but with enough work I have seen them split 20 point in the 50 and go 46 high in the 100. Now I would also say that they are probably more middle distance oriented to start with so it is probably easier for them to come down in yardage then say a guy like Elliot Rushton.

      Rusthon was a distance machine, but I am sure we would never see him flat start a 50 in 21.8 or better

    • #33282
      The Treat
      Member

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      @middie07 wrote:

      Technique and talent win out in such a short race.

      As someone once said to me. “Sprinters are born, distance swimmers are made!”

      thats just something coaches tell distance swimmers to make them feel good.

      as someone once said to me. “what’s the difference between an orange”

    • #33283
      N Dynamite
      Member

      I thought swimming distance was what you did if you couldn’t sprint 😆

    • #33284
      silentp
      Member

      @The Treat wrote:

      as someone once said to me. “what’s the difference between an orange”

      Actually, there are several types of oranges, all with their own individual tastes. Hormel explains this (and other things regarding this cirtrus fruit) and other things quite well:

      http://www.hormel.com/templates/knowledge/knowledge.asp?catitemid=113&id=968

    • #33285
      middie07
      Member

      Sadly, I must agree with the status of distance as a secondary sort of entertainment. No one watches the mile. Some of us are born to be boring, I guess.

    • #33286

      @middie07 wrote:

      Sadly, I must agree with the status of distance as a secondary sort of entertainment. No one watches the mile. Some of us are born to be boring, I guess.

      Friend, it could be worse. You might be a diver and religated to being a tertiary form of entertainment.

    • #33287

      Obviously shorter races leave less room for error, are much closer, and natural ability comes into play much more when you take out the endurance factor. Like most of us no matter how much we train could ever beat Michael Vick in a foot race. Or swim a 20-point 50.

      I think distance has its share of natural ability (genetics) too. But training and heart are much more of a factor. Like Rocky using his heart to climb a mountain and defeat Ivan Drago.

      But I have to say it is much more exciting seeing come from behind wins or close races in the longer events.

      If you had to pay full non-student prices, what race would you rather watch? Haggameyer take on Koch and Amundson for the umteenth time in an event that lasts 20-21 seconds and you usually have to look at the clock to see who won? Or Sky-Dave, Hanson, and Ted Marschall in conference finals of the 500 and/or mile coming into the last 50 of a body length apart?

      I’m not a distance guy, but I’m very intrigued this year to see if someone can challenge any of Casson’s MIAC records… or challenge Sky-Dave.

      And yeah, diving is good for going out to drink in the parking lot and not miss anything.

    • #33288

      @middie07 wrote:

      Sadly, I must agree with the status of distance as a secondary sort of entertainment. No one watches the mile. Some of us are born to be boring, I guess.

      Personally I like watching Distance races. The 50, boring and to short. Watching a great 500, wondering if a swimmer can hold on, checking out their splits, etc. How can you not like distance swimmers, who line up behind the blocks and know they are going to go as hard as they can for as far as they can, knowing they are going to have to push through the pain. Also, distance swimmers are more fun to train.

    • #33289
      swim5599
      Member

      I like to train them both equally. But I agree the 500 and or a great split 200 is really enjoyable to watch

    • #33290
      The Treat
      Member

      @Its all an ACT wrote:

      @middie07 wrote:

      Sadly, I must agree with the status of distance as a secondary sort of entertainment. No one watches the mile. Some of us are born to be boring, I guess.

      Personally I like watching Distance races. The 50, boring and to short. Watching a great 500, wondering if a swimmer can hold on, checking out their splits, etc. How can you not like distance swimmers, who line up behind the blocks and know they are going to go as hard as they can for as far as they can, knowing they are going to have to push through the pain. Also, distance swimmers are more fun to train.

      i do agree with you. i dont think the 50 is the best race. personally i think the 200 is the best race (maybe for personal reasons) and the 800 FR the best relay. i love a great 500 race if it’s close, but more often than not, you’re going to know the winner before hand. not as true with the 50. now a race between two guys very close in the 500 (especially if they have a bit of history swimming against each other) can be awesome. for example, last years nationals 500 w/ curtis going out fast, peterson up at front for most of the race, then newton dropping a sick split on the last 100 yds or so, awesome race. ive never seen a great mile race, so i cant vote for that. they’re just too rare. the 50 is almost always a good race, and also leads to some very exiting relays.

    • #33291
      middie07
      Member

      I hope not to have created the impression that the 50 is my favorite event, because I think it’s crap. Definitely the 200 Freestyle (that’s the whole middie reference in my moniker) is the most exciting to watch for me, because it’s a great crossover of distance and sprinters that makes for very different strategies and wild races.

      And gotta highlight this solid reference from Chapel Partner:

      But training and heart are much more of a factor. Like Rocky using his heart to climb a mountain and defeat Ivan Drago.

    • #33292

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      And yeah, diving is good for going out to drink in the parking lot and not miss anything.

      Urg. I make an effort to watch all the swim races and compel my divers to do the same. It would be nicve to have the same effort from the swimmer types but that might be too damn hard.

    • #33293
      lane 6er
      Member

      All I have to say is that in college diving is not a sport it is an event. I for one don’t mind it at all if I miss seeing an event or two in a meet, if you know what I mean.

    • #33294

      Diving should be a men’s gymnastics event. Right after pommel horse, but before tumbling.

      @Eminence Front wrote:

      @Chapel Partner wrote:

      And yeah, diving is good for going out to drink in the parking lot and not miss anything.

      Urg. I make an effort to watch all the swim races and compel my divers to do the same. It would be nicve to have the same effort from the swimmer types but that might be too damn hard.

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