5 Best Races

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    • #12206
      silentp
      Member

      @Stevo wrote:

      ok even though this is a discussion every year, i think it’s prett pointless. I would rather talk about top 5 best races at the league meet, or a breakdown of points, or relays than MVP. Whoever has the best meet will win MVP….that’s who wins it every year.

      You ask and Ye shall receive. The 5 I look forward to with the most anticipation:

      200 IM, it’s Hope vs K, Waterstone the senior vs Dekker the sophomore. Dekker got him last year, Waterstone wants revenge and into NCAAs, i small a dog fight.

      500 free, Krone goes out like no other and Heyboer splits it beautifully. Both will want the league record and it should be fun to see if Heyboer can come back on him.

      100 fly, with or without Ellis, this is going to be a great race with some young guns and a defending champ who’s a senior, and no one is talking about him. Look for it to come down to the last 5 yards.

      200 MR, call this a bias, but i really want to see if K can take down the Hope record. Some are saying it’s already done, but a relay takes 4 guys firing at the same time, i’m excited.

      800 FR, Calvin vs Hope, they don’t like 1 another and this race should be great. Both will be quick and several lead changes are likely. Who steps up?

    • #33676
      Rooster
      Member

      200 IM – Apparently we’ve decided on this forum that Heyboer will go the 500 and not the 200 IM. If that is the case, Dekker makes his case as defending champ. Waterstone is a senior and often overlooked on these forums but Dekker defends his title. Don’t come on here and tell me Waterstone is ahead of where he was last year and use that as your argument….Dekker is too.

      500 – Krone.

      100 Fly – Nelis, Bacon, Dekker, Fetters. Defending champ is 4th.

      200 MR – There’s no bias in the 200 Medley there SilentP. You’re talking about that record because it should happen. Even Alma would have a shot at that record if they could go out 23.5, 24.8. And those are just midseason times.

      800 Free – This is a series of matchups is all. Peregrine and CVB cancel. The 200 is a long ways for JBG and not long enough for Heyboer, they cancel. Toll has been faster than Rose but Rose is blooming, they cancel. Pin this one on the 4th guy. Resseguie/Conrad vs Vogelzang/Nelis.

    • #33677
      ajp
      Member

      Best event on day 1?

      200 Free Relay

      4 teams capable of sub 1:25.00 in Hope, Kzoo, Olivet, and Calvin.

      Since I have to make the call…
      the winner won’t be Hope.

    • #33678

      Since I have to make the call…
      the winner won’t be Hope.

      1 1:25.24 Y F A RELAY HOPE -MI 12/6/2006
      VanderBroek Holton Kurti Rose
      2 1:26.50 Y F A RELAY CAL 12/6/2006
      Resseguie Boumgarden Tuuk VanAllsburg
      3 1:27.72 Y F A RELAY OLI 12/6/2006
      Fetters Bylina Aguirre Powers
      4 1:28.08 Y F A RELAY KZOO -MI 12/4/2006
      Espinosa Dmitruk Greiner Ellis (FR)
      5 1:30.50 Y F A RELAY ALB -MI 12/5/2006
      Bacon Gunderson Blunden Witkowski
      6 1:36.90 Y F A RELAY ALMA 12/6/2006
      McDonald Livingston Gostomski White

      Who’s gonna win then ajp?
      Please, tell me Alma is going to taper to a 1:23.0 because that would be the only thing funnier than telling me Hope won’t win.
      Calvin and Olivet have a chance to pull it off if Hope swims like crap but otherwise I have to say that Hope looks to be the favorite as of now.

    • #33679
      el radio
      Member

      This question is for the older guys…how does this years league compare to years in the past?…like in the days before the seniors of now when Slagh, Judsen, Latham, Robbins, White, Whitbeck, Boss, Stover, PBG, Kobes and others ruled the MIAA at their respective times (so say about from 1996 to 2003). Is this year comparable to years past? or is it still blossoming into possible sweetness

      I just thought I would ask since you oldies could better inform me

    • #33680
      Derek
      Member

      @iguessthatsme wrote:

      Who’s gonna win then ajp?

      Seriously, iguessthatsme, what do you want the assistant coach at Calvin to say?

    • #33681

      How about that there are 4 teams in the race and all them have a chance to win?
      How about not counting out a very fast relay?
      How about the fact that Hope is the fastest relay in the MIAA as of now?
      🙂

    • #33682

      There was really no need to say that he had to make the call.
      The only people “making the call” are the people swimming in the relay.

    • #33683

      P.S.
      I don’t see the Assistant Coach from Hope on here saying that Calving doesn’t have a chance to win the 800 free relay, a relay in which they have just about as a good of a chance to win as Hope does the 200 free relay.

    • #33684

      @iguessthatsme wrote:

      …a relay in which they have just about as a good of a chance to win as Hope does the 200 free relay.

      Don’t even be modest. Those chances are not equal on paper or any other method of comparison.

      My most conservative estimate for Hope’s 2 free relay is 1:23 high to mid and I don’t know if there is another team in the MIAA with that kind of potential.

    • #33685
      Stevo
      Member

      Thanks…

      It seems to me that thursday is the day to go, the only races not mentioned for thursday is the 50 and the 400 MR both very interesting races.

      Stevo’s Top Five:

      1. 200 Free Relay- will forever be my favorite event to watch and swim. Not only has Hope dominated this event but it’s always fun to hear from Calvin swimmers for the past 5 years on how this is the year! AJP you split it out for me and give me a legit reasoning on a team beating Hope. I know your not picking K or Olivet so just stick to Hope and Calvin

      2. 200IM- It’s been talked about already but Waterstone vs Dekker vs Yury will be a hell of a final. All three are ahead of where they were last year, not it’s just who wants it more. My initial gut feeling is to take the only senior but it is to close to call.

      3. 400 Medley Relay- K is the obvious favorite. But both Olivet and Hope can make it interesting. I think what intrigues me the most about this race is the uncertainty of what will happen with Hope’s relay. Who is swimming what? Does Heyboer swim breast? If so who swims back? Can King live up to the talk? All in all it should be a good race. Who do I think will win…K….but i do think Hope gets a medley to Houston.

      4. 200 Free- CVB, Bacon, Krone, Tuuk, Rose, Yury, It seems there is not clear cut favorite but it should stack up to be a great finish

      5. 400 Free Relay- Apparently i am a relay guy. If this meet is going to be as close as it sounds this will be a UNREAL race. If Olivet is riding high, it will be a dogfight, if hope has solidified the championship expect them to do something special. And what is in order for Hope to win the meet they have to win and Olivet can’t get second, does Calvin help there arch rivals out? Everyone is tired, and have to dig deep to find that last great swim.

    • #33686
      silentp
      Member

      I’ll try to break down the 200 FR, just Hope and Calvin, hopefully being unbiased.

      Calvin:
      Ress 21.5
      JBG 20.7
      Tuuk 20.9
      KVA 21.2
      = 1:24.3

      Hope:
      CVB 21.2
      Kurti 20.9
      Holton 20.8
      Rose 20.6
      = 1:23.5

    • #33687
      Alterego
      Member

      That’s great and all SilentP and I like to predict times as much as the next guy but if you are even just a tenth slow for each of the Calvin guys and even just a tenth fast for all of the Hope guys, they both end up at 1:23.9.

      Don’t count Olivet or Zoo out of this relay either. If Ellis or Powers can go out 21.0 they have the potential to line up 3 guys each right around that to follow with a relay start.

    • #33688

      @Alterego wrote:

      if you are even just a tenth slow for each of the Calvin guys and even just a tenth fast for all of the Hope guys, they both end up at 1:23.9

      wow, you’re right. however, silentp attempted to make unbiased predictions for each team and i am guessing it will be highly unlikely each Calvin swimmer goes one tenth faster and each Hope swimmer goes one tenth slower. does calvin have a shot? yes, a slim one, but i’ll take Hope by over a second.

    • #33689
      maverick1
      Member

      200 IM- i think this race will be great. personally i like either yuri or dekker because i’ve watched K waterstone get beat on freestyle a few times (mostly in the 400IM) and i think the race will be so close that it will come down to free and i see dekker and yuri as better freestylers than waterstone. (all of that info is based off of miaa performances and i haven’t been stalking k waterstone this season, so i’m going off of previous miaa meets)

      200 free relay- hard to pick against hope….they’ll likely go conservative on the starts during finals and then time trial it again. they’re just way too borderline (in my opinion) and we will see a faster time in the TT.

      100 fly- lots of guys around the same time and then one guy who’s best is about a full second faster. i’d take ellis if he swims it based on the fact that he’s just a better swimmer than the others.

      200 free- this will be close….i’d expect it not to be won by anybody too conservative or someone too frantic on the front end of the race. tuuk and cvb have put up some good times, yuri looks good. i’d expect it to come down to these three. if cvb can repeat the 1:42 he’ll most likely win.

      200 medley relay- k wins by a lot, i’m just excited to see a kzoo relay meet record.

    • #33690
      swim5599
      Member

      I could see hope being 1:23 mid this year in the 200 FR, but I think that is the only relay getting a bid for nationals. If Calvin goes the 1:24.3 that was predicted they will not be in.

      I think the 400 MR should be one of the more exciting races, but I think Heyboer has to go the breast stroke leg in order to make this thing even close. Kalamazoo is going to be out at the mid way point so fast, and it will really be up to Rose to make up the difference

    • #33691
      teemohtay
      Member

      @el radio wrote:

      This question is for the older guys…how does this years league compare to years in the past?…like in the days before the seniors of now when Slagh, Judsen, Latham, Robbins, White, Whitbeck, Boss, Stover, PBG, Kobes and others ruled the MIAA at their respective times (so say about from 1996 to 2003). Is this year comparable to years past? or is it still blossoming into possible sweetness

      I just thought I would ask since you oldies could better inform me

      The league right now reminds me of circa ’97-’99. Some big time studs with national scoring potential in Latham, Robbins, Dattles, Boss, etc., creating very entertaining finals, but thinning out as you get into the consol heats. Compare that to around ’02-’03 (when I personally feel the league was at its strongest) when 1-12 was very solid in most races.

      Of course this is coming from a casual observer over the past few years…I’m sure Milhouse or Don C. could provide a more detailed analysis.

    • #33692
      Low Tide
      Member

      Sounds about right to me…

      The league was very strong in the mid-90s with not only Hope and K fielding strong national teams, but Calvin and even Albion as well. It tapered off into the late 90s and became very top heavy until that 02-03 era where it was extremely deep. The 93, 95, 96, 01, 02 and 03 league teams all did extremely well at nationals. The best?

    • #33693
      Low Tide
      Member

      As most would suspect, the 02 team scored the most points at nationals:

      02 — 627.5
      93 — 575
      95 — 526
      01 — 452.5
      96 — 351
      03 — 330.5

    • #33694

      Who scored 627.5 points at Nationals??????

    • #33695

      Or are those their scores at the MIAA meet?

    • #33696

      are you… retarded?

    • #33697

      Pretty close, actually. How do you feel about yourself now?
      Okay maybe not…just a little slow.

    • #33698
      T-Bone
      Member

      @Rooster wrote:

      800 Free – This is a series of matchups is all. Peregrine and CVB cancel. The 200 is a long ways for JBG and not long enough for Heyboer, they cancel. Toll has been faster than Rose but Rose is blooming, they cancel. Pin this one on the 4th guy. Resseguie/Conrad vs Vogelzang/Nelis.

      I didn’t see Toll in the results at Wayne State – was he sick? Sorry if this comment was already made… I haven’t been on here in awhile and didn’t feel like reading everything to catch up.

    • #33699

      For what it’s worth…

      5. 800 FR RELAY – This is probably Calvin’s best shot to win a relay. It will be really satisfying to watch them suffer the defeat.

      4. 200 IM – At minimum, Waterstone v. Dekker should be a great battle.

      3. 400 IM – Phil Heyboer. That’s all I need to say. Really excited to see how fast he is capable of swimming this event.

      2. ANY RELAY TT – Honestly, the relay time trials have to be the best races of the whole meet. Simply put, the controversy these TT create is unrivaled.

      1. 100 fly – I guess I just like this race the best. I hope Ellis swims it because then it becomes even more exciting. I have a vision that Nelis touches the wall first in say 51.32.

    • #33700
      el radio
      Member

      billy has a point about TT’ing…even though many despise it, they are still fun to watch. Its not as if the relay swim or individual swim will effect the outcome of the meet…hence why we see most teams cheering on others during TT’s therefore making the races very interesting because everyone puts aside their ego for a minute or two

      1. 100 Fly – there about 8 or 9 guys (in my mind) that are locked to ATLEAST go a 51 high, leaving a few spots for randoms to grab

      2. 400 IM – even though it seems as Heyboer is the lock for the win, im not counting out yuri, we saw him last year at leagues after only half a season worth of training under Stubbs

      3. 200 IM – Waterstone and Dekker will duke it out again…this will be an extremely close race, but for now i give the edge to dekker (i see both of them in the 1:53’s)

      4. 400 Freelay – Arguably one of the most exciting races in the meet, edge to Hope because…i dont have a good reason, i just say hope

      5. 200 Fly – This is my underdog pick for one of the better races of the meet, i say this because there are also 9 guys at 2:00.90 or better and it could go many ways for the placers in the middle as for the front runners i say Dekker touches out Koji (if dekker swims it, and i dont see why he wouldnt) followed closely by Nelis

    • #33701
      maverick1
      Member

      back to the discussion though:

      the 1650, race for 2nd-

      unless krone’s body completely shuts down because of his race “tactics” the race for first is over right now. second place as silentp said should be a great one. there have been good swims in the distance events from both jaffees (the older one was a 16:20 as a froshie), richardson from hope, contreras from kzoo and any outsiders (people can pull a 16:30 out of nowhere, although it’s uncommon).

      I think if jaffee can swim 16:20 again that he’ll take 2nd but it may be close. I don’t know much about the hope guy, but julio’s background was that of a guy who got better as the distance got longer so i’d look for him to really be strong in the 2nd half. i’m also very happy that i’m not in the mile anymore, because the event sucks and nobody really even likes to watch it. unless some guy might go super fast.

    • #33702
      silentp
      Member

      I thought we could look at which races actually ended up being the 5 best. My original picks were:
      200 IM (different than predicted, but stayed on my list)
      500 free (never a race and i got to say “i told you so”)
      100 fly (also not a great race, Nelis proved himself here even more than his IM)
      200 MR (still made my list, fun to watch)
      800 FR (ended up not being bad but this was before Calvin lost Toll)

      After getting to watch all of the Finals, for every race, here are my picks:
      1. 200 Back, I did not predict Ellis would take him down and it’s not like Heyboer didn’t rise to the challenge with a fast time, 1:52.1 is smokin, so a new record by a guy who hadn’t swam it tapered before, and a race where Heyboer looked to be coming back… wow, just my favorite race.

      2. 200 FR, Calvin came out swimming hardcore and built up a slight lead (but large for a 200 FR) only to have Hope come back and prove why they win this every year, and did it in a very fast time, even Calvin’s 2nd place time was cruisin’, great way to start the meet.

      3. 200 IM, but not with the 2 people i predicted that would make this race great. Nelis is a stud in the making and really proved it in this race, but Dekker also proved his strength. Both were out fast, with Dekker starting to pull away in the middle, only to have Nelis come back with a sub 26 split on the end, just running out of pool, wow.

      4. 100 free, I picked Rose, some at picked Ress, especially with the meet he was having, but this battle was great. Ress goes out hard and Rose comes back strong, only to barely be outtouched. Somewhat of an upset with Rose’s midseason time, but the race itself was just a joy to watch.

      5. 200 MR, this was great for 2 reason, K vs the meet record, Hope vs Olivet. Both races were close and very good, we all knew Greiner would have to split 20.8 to get the record when he jumped in and he did, then a great battle only a couple second behind for 2nd coming down to the last swimmer, what a race.

    • #33703
      Rudy Shingle
      Member

      1) 200 Back Watching Ellis just destroy Heyboer on the last 25 was sweet
      2) 200 medley relay Kzoo by 2.5 seconds and such a close race for second
      3) 1650 Not close but watching Krone go out 5 seconds faster thent he second best 500 time
      4) 200 IM The Dekker Repeat
      5) 200 free relay Calvin out to a big lead but just cant hold on at the end

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