2007 NCAC Championships

Forums Conferences North Coast Athletic Conference 2007 NCAC Championships

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    • #12246
      neswim
      Member

      Any predictions re the outcome of Denison vs Kenyon?

      Men

      Does Denison have the edge given their superior, on paper, free relays, or does Kenyon depth win out?

      Women

      At nationals, Denison will be far back of the Kenyon women, but with the C scoring at Conference and the possiblity that a number of Ladies who qualified for nationals might swim exhibition, can Denison sneak by them?

    • #34270
      99 Red
      Member

      I think the big question is Denison’s depth. If they want to be serious at nationals, they need to get more guys there. Right now they have 13 guys with cuts, but 6 probably aren’t good enough to go, and I have no idea what their divers chances are of making nationals. I think if they want to make a run at the title, those 6 bubble swimmers need to get off the bubble, and a few more guys need to step up. You want names? Behnke (already in on relays, but needs to get some cuts), Steele, Baldwin, Browning, and Vogel plus the 6 swimmers who need to better their cuts and the 6 who are soldly in and you have almost all the depth you need.

      Kenyon on the other hand already has nearly a full boat with fairly solid qualifying times. Denison needs to have a better meet to set up their nationals, so I think they will be more rested for the conference meet. Kenyon probably has more depth, all things equal, but the hard core taper starts at a higher point on Denisons depth chart. That I think will give DU the depth edge at this meet.

      As far as height is concerned, it might be closer than people think in the sprints. Kenyon was looking pretty quick against Miami.

    • #34271
      neswim
      Member

      @99 Red wrote:

      I think the big question is Denison’s depth. If they want to be serious at nationals, they need to get more guys there. Right now they have 13 guys with cuts, but 6 probably aren’t good enough to go, and I have no idea what their divers chances are of making nationals. I think if they want to make a run at the title, those 6 bubble swimmers need to get off the bubble, and a few more guys need to step up. You want names? Behnke (already in on relays, but needs to get some cuts), Steele, Baldwin, Browning, and Vogel plus the 6 swimmers who need to better their cuts and the 6 who are soldly in and you have almost all the depth you need.

      Kenyon on the other hand already has nearly a full boat with fairly solid qualifying times. Denison needs to have a better meet to set up their nationals, so I think they will be more rested for the conference meet. Kenyon probably has more depth, all things equal, but the hard core taper starts at a higher point on Denisons depth chart. That I think will give DU the depth edge at this meet.

      As far as height is concerned, it might be closer than people think in the sprints. Kenyon was looking pretty quick against Miami.

      Can I take this a vote for Denison men over Kenyon men at NCACs?
      What about the women?

    • #34272
      swim5599
      Member

      I know there was a ton of talk about Steele when he came in, what were his best times coming into school this year, because I feel like he had a rather dissappointing Miami meet.

    • #34273
      swimkin
      Member

      For the women there will be not much contest. Denison women Zaleski, Cassell, Dain, Feingold, and Novinger should give the Kenyon women a run for their money. Denison still has some great up and coming sprinters that could rattle Kenyon’s sprint relays. But overall the Kenyon women have much more depth this year than the last two years. They win hands down (at least if we are looking just at swimming and not diving) It will be interesting to see what events and relays Ertel will be swimming in for both conference and Nationals.

    • #34274
      neswim
      Member

      @swimkin wrote:

      For the women there will be not much contest. Denison women Zaleski, Cassell, Dain, Feingold, and Novinger should give the Kenyon women a run for their money. Denison still has some great up and coming sprinters that could rattle Kenyon’s sprint relays. But overall the Kenyon women have much more depth this year than the last two years. They win hands down (at least if we are looking just at swimming and not diving) It will be interesting to see what events and relays Ertel will be swimming in for both conference and Nationals.

      Yes, it will be interesting to see what relays Ertel will swim..it probably depends on the performance of two 2006 national team members, Alison and Gagnon. That will likely determine which relays Ertel swims.

      If the Ladies swam all of their best at conference then I agree. Ironically Kenyon may be more vulnerable than they appear on paper precisely because of the strength/depth. If it looks like more than 18 can qualify, not out of the question, then a number of swimmers with A cuts might be entered exhibition to make room for the bubble swimmers to compete/qualify for the remaining spots. Still, I think the Ladies still have enough depth among their “bubble” swimmers to prevail.

    • #34275
      swimkin
      Member

      In the past 24 swimmers from each team could swim for conference. However, I believe only 20 swimmers were able to count for points. If I am not mistaken 3 divers would equal one swimmer, also.

      I realize all that changed last year where they allowed everyone to swim so no one was left out if they wanted to swim. They still only counted so many swimmers towards the team points. So do only 18 swimmers count towards total points at NCACs now or is it still 20?

    • #34276
      99 Red
      Member

      I think it is 18, but some teams use 17 swimmers and 3 divers, making 20 scorers. But that is just what I recall, I didn’t look up the rules.

    • #34277
      N Dynamite
      Member

      A diver is a 3rd of an athlete – you can have any combination as long as you don’t exceed 18 total athletes. That’s the NCAA rule, the NCAC may be different, I know the UAA goes with 24 and I think a diver is only a half.

    • #34278
      neswim
      Member

      @swimkin wrote:

      In the past 24 swimmers from each team could swim for conference. However, I believe only 20 swimmers were able to count for points. If I am not mistaken 3 divers would equal one swimmer, also.

      I realize all that changed last year where they allowed everyone to swim so no one was left out if they wanted to swim. They still only counted so many swimmers towards the team points. So do only 18 swimmers count towards total points at NCACs now or is it still 20?

      Last year it was 18 swimmers (or 17 swimmers and up to 3 divers). You’ll note that several eventual national team members on the Ladies side either passed on swimming (Coker) or swam exhibition (Barer and Gagnon). So you can expect that something similar may happen this year. On the men’s side believe that Zarins passed on the meet.

      My predictions:

      Men
      Denison wins in a sneaker…it was pretty close last year. Kenyon has qualified a lot of swimmers and probably won’t taper their distance folks. Denison needs to “stretch” more to put together its national team.

      Women
      Kenyon wins by a margin similar to last year. Yes, they have a much stronger team but maybe they will pull out 2-3 swimmers to make room so that the swimmers on the “bubble” can swim at night. They might lose some relays, that they will win at Nationals, but should have the depth to outscore Denison without all of their strong swimmers.

      Come Nationals, I do think the Lords will repeat with Denison a close second and the Ladies will win but a large margin but Denison will leap over Emory for second.

      Given the Kenyon and Denison should finish 1-2 in both National meets this should be THE conference meet of the season. Yes, the NESCAC meet is likely to be close but they don’t really have any team that is likely to place higher than 4th at Nationals and Emory should dominate the UAA.

    • #34279
      neswim
      Member

      There is a link for the 2007 Psyche Sheets on the Championship Web Page:
      http://www.northcoast.org/mw/swimchampionships.html

      Right now, the link is not working but presumably will be up soon.

      Don’t know if swimmers listed will distinguish between scoring and exhibition. I don’t believe this distinction was noted last year.

    • #34280
      99 Red
      Member

      Wow, Kenyon really tanked on those seed times. I can certainly see why a coach wouldn’t want to put taper times down for somebody who wasn’t tapering, but (for instance) Jacobssen was 1:43.87 against Miami on Jan 26th, and he is listed as 1:45.88. Withington was 1:45.17 at that same meet and he is seeded at a 1:48.12. These slow times aren’t going to make a big difference when there are 3 circle seeded heats, but that just begs the question, why have those slow times in the first place?

      Is it to frustrate geeks like me who might score the meet out ahead of time? Could be…

    • #34281
      neswim
      Member

      @99 Red wrote:

      Wow, Kenyon really tanked on those seed times. I can certainly see why a coach wouldn’t want to put taper times down for somebody who wasn’t tapering, but (for instance) Jacobssen was 1:43.87 against Miami on Jan 26th, and he is listed as 1:45.88. Withington was 1:45.17 at that same meet and he is seeded at a 1:48.12. These slow times aren’t going to make a big difference when there are 3 circle seeded heats, but that just begs the question, why have those slow times in the first place?

      Is it to frustrate geeks like me who might score the meet out ahead of time? Could be…

      It is an interesting “system”…maybe its nothing more than a Bill Belichick kind of approach (or maybe Belichick learned it from Steen) where you don’t give the competition any more information than necessary? As you point out, given the circle seeding it doesn’t really matter all that much.

    • #34282
      NCACDork
      Member

      I would have to think that some of it has to do with the fact that coaches like to get their lineups, as well as paperwork, finished early. That way they can focus on coaching and being on deck. Esp. in D3, coaches are forced to wear many hats.

      Either that, or they are just trying to mess with people’s heads. Either way, works for me.

      On a more serious note, I was impressed with a lot of the times from this year’s meet, at least after day 1.

      Kenyon’s sprinters seem to have stepped it up pretty well, and we will just have to wait and see how the rest of the meet goes.

      I feel like Denison will be strong in day 2…

    • #34283
      swim5599
      Member

      I think Denison is swimming pretty well, considering I have a feeling they are not rested more than a couple days. They are going to be tough at nats. 20.7 out of a Kenyon sprinter. Pretty solid

    • #34284
      neswim
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I think Denison is swimming pretty well, considering I have a feeling they are not rested more than a couple days. They are going to be tough at nats. 20.7 out of a Kenyon sprinter. Pretty solid

      What about 51.10 100 back by Mitchell? That’s not too shabby either.

    • #34285
      99 Red
      Member

      Ouch! to bad on the relay! But watch out, sometimes these DQ’s even out. Still, Kenyon really is swimming well. When they are in the consol heat, they are winning the consol heat, on both sides, and the team that does that is hard to beat.

    • #34286
      swim5599
      Member

      Mitchell is having a huge meet.

    • #34287
      neswim
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Mitchell is having a huge meet.

      And got the recognition as well as Tina Ertel.

      Very impressive performance by the men’s team culiminating in the that 400 free relay win. Ditto for the Ladies. Depth on both teams quite evident as both squads swam some of their top swimmers exhibitions to help fill out the national squad and maximize swims at Houston next month.

      Will be interesting to see how many more qualifying swims Denison picks up at next week last chance meet at the KAC. They need more depth to challenge Kenyon or overtake Emory. The Denison women should be able to challenge Emory for second. Looks like the Ladies are well positioned to re-gain their championship title.

      Will we see a 1-2 finish by the NCAC power in both meets in Houston?

    • #34288

      @neswim wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Mitchell is having a huge meet.

      Will we see a 1-2 finish by the NCAC power in both meets in Houston?

      I know theres still a last chance meet for them next weekend, but from what i heard Denison qualified 8 and has 2 on the bubble (men’s team) and Kenyon shaved and tapered everyone but 3 of the swimmers (men’s team). If what i heard is true, then Denison needs to have a crazy last chance meet. I have a hard time believing that Kenyon will have an easy time tapering again for ncaas in 5 weeks (yes, history has shown us they can, but in previous years, im sure they didnt taper more swimmers). Kenyon will have their work cut out for them and for Denison to pick up the second, they will need more than 10 swimmers.

      Everyone swam fast, can anyone tell me how the Emory guys looks– shaved? tapered? dropped days? and does anyone know what JHU plans on doing?

    • #34289
      neswim
      Member

      @wickedfoolish wrote:

      @neswim wrote:

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Mitchell is having a huge meet.

      Will we see a 1-2 finish by the NCAC power in both meets in Houston?

      I know theres still a last chance meet for them next weekend, but from what i heard Denison qualified 8 and has 2 on the bubble (men’s team) and Kenyon shaved and tapered everyone but 3 of the swimmers (men’s team). If what i heard is true, then Denison needs to have a crazy last chance meet. I have a hard time believing that Kenyon will have an easy time tapering again for ncaas in 5 weeks (yes, history has shown us they can, but in previous years, im sure they didnt taper more swimmers). Kenyon will have their work cut out for them and for Denison to pick up the second, they will need more than 10 swimmers.

      Everyone swam fast, can anyone tell me how the Emory guys looks– shaved? tapered? dropped days? and does anyone know what JHU plans on doing?

      Don’t put too much stock in what you heard. Its illogical to expect Kenyon to taper swimmers who already achieved likely Q times (about 14 based as of early December based on 2006 Q Times). The “only 3” may have come from the bad assumption that the only untapered swimers were the ones who qualified AND swam exhibition (at least 3 and possibly 4 depending on how things shake out). The only way that Denison or Emory will beat Kenyon will be to qualify more swimmers next weekend and/or swim much faster in March than they did in December because history strongly suggests that Kenyon will be faster in March than they were in February.

    • #34290
      HOOSIER77
      Member

      Did Anyone ever see Kenyon Coach Steen on the Pool deck in Canton?

    • #34291
      neswim
      Member

      Would you please repeat the question?

      I didn’t get it the first time.

    • #34292
      HOOSIER77
      Member

      Was Coach Steen in the stands or was he on the pool deck?

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