200 Free and 800 Free Relay

@middie07 wrote:

Stewart-1:41.62
Hanson-1:41.64
Anderson-1:43.14
Thomas-1:43.20
As near as I can tell, if Stewart swam the 200 he’d be the favorite. Anderson also probably won’t swim it, so it looks like Hanson has a 1.5 second or so advantage. But we know Koch and Evensen can both go faster than their 200 times last year would indicate. Should shape up to be quite a race. But probably not as exciting as the 800; both teams have more than enough 200 swimmers to make excellent relays.

This means the GAC relay could go
1:41.6 to
1:41.0 to
1:42.5 to
1:42.6

This would be a time of 6:47.7, just based on last year’s time… that would win.

Also, i find it somewhat comical that Koch and Evensen can go faster than their 200 times would indicate but the GAC guys get no mention like that. Last I checked it’s what you do, not what you can do.

I think middie07 is noting the discrepancy between Evenson and Koch’s relay splits (1:42 and 1:41 respectively) and their flat starts (both 1:44s in finals). The 200 is still probably Hanson or Stewerts to lose, but I think the 800 is up for grabs.

@silentp wrote:

This means the GAC relay could go
1:41.6 to
1:41.0 to
1:42.5 to
1:42.6

You have Hanson, Stewart and Cuevas on there. Who do you have for the fourth guy on this relay? And is it a real time or a should be able to go time?

@backstroker02 wrote:

@silentp wrote:

This means the GAC relay could go
1:41.6 to
1:41.0 to
1:42.5 to
1:42.6

You have Hanson, Stewart and Cuevas on there. Who do you have for the fourth guy on this relay? And is it a real time or a should be able to go time?

Sorry bad, math actually, Amundsen would be 1:42.8, about, so i am bad. Although I don’t believe he’d swim it because they’d for sure want him on the other relays, but could.

There is a debate. Will Carlson put Amundson on the 800 freestyle relay? Will he scrap the 400 medley if he thinks he cant win it, and assure a strong forth leg on the 800 free and make sure of the win? Or does he think he can can have other guys who can go as fast as Amundson?
My opinion: I think that they will keep Amundson on the Medley. They have lots of other guys who can probably go as fast. Tapered, last year Wakefield was a little faster. Untapered, in season, Pearson was only a half a second off Wakefield (and Pearson had a heck of a taper too). So I think Carlson will keep his 400 med as fast as he can to try to get it into nationals.

@backstroker02 wrote:

There is a debate. Will Carlson put Amundson on the 800 freestyle relay? Will he scrap the 400 medley if he thinks he cant win it, and assure a strong forth leg on the 800 free and make sure of the win? Or does he think he can can have other guys who can go as fast as Amundson?
My opinion: I think that they will keep Amundson on the Medley. They have lots of other guys who can probably go as fast. Tapered, last year Wakefield was a little faster. Untapered, in season, Pearson was only a half a second off Wakefield (and Pearson had a heck of a taper too). So I think Carlson will keep his 400 med as fast as he can to try to get it into nationals.

I agree, i think a freshman will be on it and probably split a 1:42 or 1:43.

Do you have any times for this freshman (I am assuming you mean Davis) in the 200 free? I did a little looking, but couldnt find anything.

Freshman can make great strides in their first year. But from what I can find, Davis is a pure distance swimmer. The longer the better. He seems to be able to keep up a very strong pace over a long distance, but doesn’t have that high gear for the 200. I see the GAC 800 FR as Stewart leading off, Cuevas, Amundson and Hanson bringing it home. I will make a prediction that Davis will take third in the 500 (4:35) and second in the mile (16:02). He may place higher if Stewart or Hanson can pick up their cuts earlier in the season and don’t do a full taper at conference. If they don’t do a full taper at conference, Olaf could steel this realy. If GAC does taper their big guns for conference, I think they will win this relay by 2 or 3 secs and Olaf would have a better shot at the 400 FR than the 800FR. Olaf could win the conference meet. IF, IF…. they can out coach Carlson and take them by surprise them with a few subtle changes in their lineup. So to summarize; Davis WILL make a difference in the D events but WILL NOT make it on any relays. IF GAC saves some of their swimmers for Nats AND the Olies can anticipate this and set their lineup accordingly, we could see a 20 point conference meet in either direction. IF GAC sets their priorities for the conference meet…. GAC wins by 150 points. And my last prediction of this post is in the dual meet, GAC by 10.

Admunson will not swim on the 800 FR. He is more important anchoring on the medleys and he won’t be off the 200 or 400.

Olaf does not and will not have a better shot at winning the 400 Fr than the 800 Fr. That doesn’t make any sense.

Gustavus has many weapons for the 800 Relay.
Wakefield will go 1:42 and Pearson is capable of doing the same. They don’t need Amudson here. He can consentrate in the other relays.

Amundson willl be on the 800 FR. No point in wasting him on the 400 medley relay. Gac can’t getthat relay into nationals and they will most likely get second at conference in it. Amundson WILL be on the 800 FR. Amundson’s senior year. I think he could pull off a 1:41 high on the relay if he had to.

Let’s not forget that Adam Thomas will be back this year. He was Olafs top 200 swimmer for a couple of years now. He was unable to compete at the conference meet due to studying abroad I believe.

I am 99% certain that Amundson will NOT be on that relay. This year Jon put him on the 400 med, giving us an insight into Carlson’s brain. Plus, the med will be faster next year, significantly! Even if they only get a minute point breaststroker, that will be 2 seconds faster then Hanson went last year. Two seconds faster puts them right on the edge of making it in. If people are dropping good time, and there is indeed a 58 breastroker… they have a real shot at getting in. Without Amundson as anchor, they have almost no shot. Plus, in the 200 free, Amundson isnt really any better then many other Gusties. Remember, at conference, he got fourth, behind Wakefield. Additionally, here were GAC top untapered 200 free times:
@Psych Sheet wrote:

Amundson, Brian JR GAC 1:47.15
Cuevas, Billy FR GAC 1:47.22
Pearson, Dave FR GAC 1:47.68
Wakefield, Tyler FR GAC 1:47.91

They could put either Pearson or Wakefield in this and be not be hurt at all. Both Wakefield and Pearson has very good tapers (Wakefield went an impressive 1:44.0 flat start and Pearson cut 10 sec in the 400 IM and almost 5 sec in the 200 breast – to steal 3rd place – to say he isnt a clutch swimmer and wouldn’t step up the 200 free is naive). Either of these guys would make a great addition to the 800 free relay.

I am with Backstroker on this 100%… no way Amundson swims the 800 FR. He didn’t do it last year when the 400 MR had NO shot at winning and NO shot at going to NCAAs, so this year, with a breastroker, they do have a shot. They might not beat Olaf, but anyone giving them no shot at making it in will be more than a bit surprised come February.

I think Wakefield will be the one on it because i see him as a 1:43-low or better 200 guy this year and Jon won’t want to leave him off after going that quick.

No matter what Amundson does, any chance Olaf could sneak a free relay? I say no, but I there’s a reason they swim the races.

Depending on how their recruiting class turns out they could sneak a free relay, but the possibility seems slim. Given that nobody from either the 2 or 4 Fr graduated and the big dogs on the relay, Hagemeyer and Amundson, are seniors out for blood, I’d be surprised if they let it even be close.

Do we have any predictions for times on any of these relays? They are all guesses at this point, but if someone could back it up with splits, it’d be fun to see. Will Olaf get the 2FR in? They should in my mind.

Putting aside the 800, GAC will not be challanged in the free relays. The only chance Olaf could have would be in the 200 because it isn’t long enough for GAC to get a gigantic lead like the 400.

@sharkboy wrote:

Putting aside the 800, GAC will not be challanged in the free relays. The only chance Olaf could have would be in the 200 because it isn’t long enough for GAC to get a gigantic lead like the 400.

I agree that Olaf’s best shot would be in the 200 FR. With two average lead-outs going 46 mid, Amundson going 45h mid-to-high, and Hagemeyer going 45 low-to-mid; the Oles just can’t keep up with that tail end.

In the outstanding case that GAC could lead out with two 46 lows, bring Amundson home in 45 midish, and psych up Hagemeyer for another 44 mid…. It could be possible for GAC to put together a 3:02 – 3:04 400 relay this year.

Any chance stewart is on the 200 FR this year? Jon will probably want to get Clement to NCAAs, but with Stewart’s performance at NCAAs last year and the sub-par performance of the other GAC swimmers, perhaps he’d be on it in an attempt to win it.

Dave Pearson could be on the 200 FR for GAC too. He was on there relay for the very beginging of the year I think.

@Procrastinator wrote:

Dave Pearson could be on the 200 FR for GAC too. He was on there relay for the very beginging of the year I think.

They went a 1:22.7 last year with a 21.5 split on that… all of those guys return, and that could really be improved by nearly a second… any chance we see a sub 1:22?

If Hagemeyer can return to the 20.4 flat start form, they would have a shot to be 1:21.6 or so. If they can repeat that at nats they will probably win it.

@swim5599 wrote:

If Hagemeyer can return to the 20.4 flat start form, they would have a shot to be 1:21.6 or so. If they can repeat that at nats they will probably win it.

if. we’ve all been waiting for hagemeyer to return to freshman year form. is it going to happen? he’s a big guy. did he get too big?

@The Treat wrote:

@swim5599 wrote:

If Hagemeyer can return to the 20.4 flat start form, they would have a shot to be 1:21.6 or so. If they can repeat that at nats they will probably win it.

if. we’ve all been waiting for hagemeyer to return to freshman year form. is it going to happen? he’s a big guy. did he get too big?

I have no idea, but I do know that if any year is the year to return to form, it’d be senior year.

Yeah he was what 20.40 as a freshmen and has not really come within 2 tenths of that since, but hey you never know.

I think it would depend on his motivation level. Some seniors realize that this is pretty much the last time they will ever get to swim at such a high, competitive level. They are usually very highly motivated and train as hard as they can in effort to go out with a bang. Other seniors, however, are beginning to look to what comes after college, be it a job, a family or whatever (in my case… more schooling, haha). These seniors can be focusing their efforts toward this part of their life and not putting in the kinds of intensity and drive in the pool as the first group. It is often hard to predict before the season starts what group a particular senior will fall in.

In my humble opinion, if Hagemeyer really felt a huge drive to go out with a bang his senior year, it is possible to see another 20.4 (or faster) out of him. But, I think we will just have to wait until the season starts and he has a few meets under his belt to even begin to guess what he will go at conference. Even still, working hard all year might not even show up until he tapers, when he might have another great taper meet and pop out a 20.4. So, we must wait and see…

However, guessing is always a fun/entertaining way for me to waste my time. So my prediction is that the Hagermeister will go a 20.5 (a good drop from the 20.90 and 20.88 he went the past two years).

Well if that is the case and you have Amundson anchor in 19.7 or so, they have to be the favorites in that race.

I think it is pretty clear that GAC is the favorite in the 200 and 400 free relays and Olaf is the favorite in the 200 and 400 medley relays, with the 800 free relay having to clear favorite.

That isn’t to say that GAC won’t pull out a win in the 200 med, or Olaf can’t win a free relay, just that this is the more likely outcome (at least in my opinion).

I was saying that on paper GAC might be the favorites nationally in the 200 FR as well, but they have to put it up when it counts

@swim5599 wrote:

I was saying that on paper GAC might be the favorites nationally in the 200 FR as well, but they have to put it up when it counts

That’s what I thought you meant and I might have to agree. Of the three that were at or under 1:22 last year at NCAAs, all have significant losses – Kenyon graduated two (although at least Harris should be able to step right in, I would be surprised if they don’t have another who could also), Wash U lost three, and Grove City lost their second best guy (who was a 20.57 flat start going into NCAAs). After those three things were pretty wide open – and Hopkins, Denison, and Wheaton each lost two and Emory graduated Hake. If they can get it together GAC could pull it off.

However, looking over the results, and also remembering something Cheadle pointed out at the time, Grove City could be a tough one to beat. They have four of the five guys back that participated on that relay at NCAAs last year – Young (20.81 split in prelims) was replaced by Snyder (21.09 in finals). Cheadle pointed out before Nats that Whitbeck (21.16 lead off) was a 20.6 in high school. Plus, Courage anchored a 19.68 in finals (which I think may have been the fastest 50 split of the meet) Those four are 3 sophmores (Whitbeck, Snyder, and Young) and a junior (Courage) this year.

In addition, Denison could be extremely dangerous in this event this year. While they graduated two guys, their freshmen are supposed to be great freestylers, so they’ll probably be right up there. Hopkins has their two top guys from that relay returning in Test (20.69 lead off) and Walsh (20.50 split), and Emory was 1:22.47 in prelims so if they can replace Hake they’ll be in the mix also – maybe even the favorites by season’s end.

I’m looking forward to this relay – for some reason it’s always been my favorite, maybe because it’s balls to the wall and it’s so hard to build any kind of big lead because the legs are so short. This year looks to be an especially exciting race.

Thanks for the analysis Dynamite. With those numbers and such it looks like it could once again be a great year for the 2 FR. I too love watching this race. It’s gotta be the sense of urgency and the fact that every hundreth counts at NCAAs. Does anyone know if takeoff pads will be used?

@The15mMark wrote:

Does anyone know if takeoff pads will be used?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong (like I need to ask…), but I think it’s an NCAA rule now that the RJPs be used at the championships.

@N Dynamite wrote:

@The15mMark wrote:

Does anyone know if takeoff pads will be used?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong (like I need to ask…), but I think it’s an NCAA rule now that the RJPs be used at the championships.

While i can’t confirm with certainty, i am also pretty sure that is the case. If they are working properly, I am all for it.

@silentp wrote:

If they are working properly, I am all for it.

I agree. The pads take a lot of the judgement error out of the meet. It’s nice to have an electronic vote should the officials disagree, make a bad call, or blatantly miss a call.

The new RJPs from Daktronics will be used in Houston. They are not a pressure activated pad, but instead similar to the touch technolgy you find in some lamps- touch the ceramic side of the lamp, it lights up. Anyway, these pads are much more athlete friendly and accurate than the first edition technology as they will acount for the last touch of the foot on the pad and are sensitive equally throughout the pad- including the very front edge that lips over the block.

I believe the rule is that the pads should be used if they are available at the facility hosting the meet, but are not mandated as of yet. However the 2006-07 rule book is not out, at least as of today.

I’m all for the pads – last year at NCAAs they saved our 200 FR from being disqualified. When our second guy went off the blocks I wasn’t sure if he was safe or not. Nothing came up on the board, so I felt pretty good about it. As I was talking to the guys after the relay, before the splits were released, the head official came up to us. We all froze. It took a second for it to sink in when he said “I had you down as a DQ, but the relay pads had you at +.01”