1,000 Free

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    • #11995
      sluggo
      Member

      What about a 1,000 Free event at DIII Nationals?

    • #30871
      The Treat
      Member

      @sluggo wrote:

      What about a 1,000 Free event at DIII Nationals?

      if they went to a 4 day format, i think i like the idea. if its still 3 days, itd be too much.

    • #30872
      silentp
      Member

      It would be too much for 3 days most likely, but in a way, a 1000 does make sense. The only reason I’d be against it is because D1 doesn’t do it. It would help out the distance swimmers and give them more value, instead of making them drop down for a 200 free or attempt to do other strokes by swimming the 400 IM. At the same time, strokers, sprinters and IMers all only have 2 events that they would consider actually theres and then often must fake a 3rd event. It’s a tough call but i’ll say no for now.

    • #30873
      99 Red
      Member

      Personally, I’d rather see an 800 IM. That would really give the people with endurance and advantage, and it would be a hell of a race to watch, with lots of lead changes. In no way do I believe that it will ever happen. Still, I think it would be pretty cool.

    • #30874
      sluggo
      Member

      Couldn’t it still be done in three days……1,000 on Thurs., 500 on Fri., and the 1650 on Sat.?

    • #30875
      miller
      Member

      @99 Red wrote:

      Personally, I’d rather see an 800 IM. That would really give the people with endurance and advantage, and it would be a hell of a race to watch, with lots of lead changes. In no way do I believe that it will ever happen. Still, I think it would be pretty cool.

      Hip hip. This would be so much fun to watch. Bad breaststrokers already lose up to 25 yards in a 400IM. Can you imagine the lead changes in an 800?! Pure insanity. Great idea.

    • #30876
      Chris Knight
      Member

      @sluggo wrote:

      Couldn’t it still be done in three days……1,000 on Thurs., 500 on Fri., and the 1650 on Sat.?

      I don’t like the idea of changing the traditional 3 day format to put the 500 on the 2nd day. A lot of people swim the 500 without swimming the mile (and would thereby presumably swim the 1,000). 500/200/100, or 500 and both backs like John Naber, or 500 and both flys, 500, 4 IM and a 200, etc. It would be unfair to a lot of people to move the 500 to the 2nd day,

      The Bluegrass Mountain Conference has a 1,000 because there are DII teams at the meet. I’m not opposed to having the race on the 2nd day of a 3 day meet, but what I loathe is the way it was fit into the schedule the last 3 years. In even numbered years the women’s 1,000 heats and all but the fastest men’s heat were all held on the 2nd morning at the end of prelims. The top men’s heat was held at night. For the mile, that was reversed. So almost all of the top heat for the men’s 1,000 swam a mile on less than a full day’s rest from the 1,000. In odd numbered years that was reversed, so the women had that problem. Needless to say, it made it very difficult to have two quality distance swims.

    • #30877
      gomez2354
      Member

      I personally would like to see the 1000 and a 4 day format, call me crazy.

      the thousand has always felt like a better event for me than the 1650. I guess its easier to pace, you drop one tenth off of each 100 for a one seccond drop, and its easier to know the spots you need to focus on since its 40 laps instead of 66?.

      The 800 would be badass.

    • #30878
      Derek
      Member

      If I were a voting member of the correct committee, I would definitely vote to have a 4 day meet with the 1000.

      It seems likely that the advantage of combining the men and women is moving to a 4 day format and adding the 1000. Thoughts?

    • #30879
      DonCheadle
      Member

      4 days is just too long. And the 1000 isn’t a legit event. What’s next, the 50 fly? Adding a day would add to the cost. I would rather have 33% more participants than a 33% longer meet.

    • #30880
      swmwl1
      Member

      Cheadle is right about the cost- I’d much rather see the relay line moved higher to include more swimmers- rather than add days/cost to the meet. Also, adding a 4th day like DII, means essentially that you are missing a whole week of class- not really in-line with the DIII philosophy.

    • #30881
      silentp
      Member

      @swmwl1 wrote:

      Cheadle is right about the cost- I’d much rather see the relay line moved higher to include more swimmers- rather than add days/cost to the meet. Also, adding a 4th day like DII, means essentially that you are missing a whole week of class- not really in-line with the DIII philosophy.

      Why the relay line? If anything, add more individuals to the meet, not just relay guys so the 50 can have another 3 heats. 8-10+ relays get to go but only approximately 18 swimmers individuals, so i say add to individuals. No way someone that would be 3 spots away from all-american honorable mention going into the meet should be left at home.

    • #30882
      N Dynamite
      Member

      @silentp wrote:

      Why the relay line? If anything, add more individuals to the meet, not just relay guys so the 50 can have another 3 heats. 8-10+ relays get to go but only approximately 18 swimmers individuals, so i say add to individuals. No way someone that would be 3 spots away from all-american honorable mention going into the meet should be left at home.

      I have a few thoughts on this which are contradictory, but I wanted to generate some additional discussion on this line of thinking:

      1. Last year we had 19-20 in each individual event under the line. Are you saying you you want 5-10 more people so that we can have 21 under the line? In many events the first person above the line was already in the meet.

      2. If only 8-10 relays get invited then you have teams who should be top 20 finishers not even at the meet. How many times have we seen the 16th place relay not even close to the B cut?

      3. Here is the conflict – if you invite more relay swimmers you may hit more of the 21-25 individuals. Yes, the 50 may fill up even more, but you’d have a true championship in the relays. On the other hand, if you took more individuals, and hit line 24 (for example), you would have more guys on relays swimming as individuals which would open up spots for more relays with the same number of relay only swimmers.

      Don’t know which way is best, although I prefer more relays. I would have to study the numbers a little more closely to see which way would actually work best.

    • #30883
      swmwl1
      Member

      The relays would be the better bet to add people to the meet than adding individuals, as we can use the argument that the relays are the team component of an individual sport- allowing us to add more people to the meet without affecting the indivdual cap- as tennis has managed to do. Adding individuals will be a difficult argument- simply because we already take more than score and we end up with many more swimming the indivudual events due to relay-only swimmers with “B” cuts and individuals allowed to swim 3 events. One of the members of the committee has also made this argument: If a team has all 5 relays ranked from 11-13th and none are invited we are essentially leaving home a team that would score 40-60 points in the meet if they held their relay positions. 40-60 points would make them a top-20 team, no other sport would leave home a team from NCAAs ranked in the top-20.

    • #30884
      silentp
      Member

      The reason I would argue for more individuals is 1) it helps more schools than would adding more relays and 2) i based it on who is more deserving… the latter may not always be the case, but many times a couple swimmers are getting a couple extra guys into the meet who would have 0 or 1 additional swim.

    • #30885
      swim5599
      Member

      I have always liked the selection process for this meet, but I always thought it was kind of ridiculous to see a team go 3:33 in the 400 MR at the meet and score points, when there are several other squads that went 3:27 sitting at home. NOw I do not have the correct answer for this, but maybe adding a few relays would alleviate this problem.

    • #30886
      griz
      Member

      we swim the 1000 free in the NESCAC conference in addition to 50’s of every stroke…and we do it in a three day meet. It seems fine to me, althouth I am lucky enough not to swim the 500, 1000, and 1650 in the same meet, so I don’t really know if it sucks.

    • #30887
      silentp
      Member

      To compare to D1 (as it is the standard for NCAA swimming) they take 12 relays and 29 individuals. I’d love to see both of those numbers for D3, but it won’t happen.

    • #30888
      swim5599
      Member

      Yeah that would be a pretty good number. I just think only having 10 or so relays being selected really waters down the consolation finals of each relay.

    • #30889
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      Yeah that would be a pretty good number. I just think only having 10 or so relays being selected really waters down the consolation finals of each relay.

      I think you missed my point… Last year D3 took only 2 less relays than D1 but 10 – 9 less individuals.

    • #30890
      swim5599
      Member

      So you are saying you want around 29 individuals, and 10-12 relays? Ok I am sorry I did not read that right. I still think the consolation finals of most of the relays are a little watered down.

    • #30891
      Derek
      Member

      Without having done a team-breakdown analysis of those extra 9-10 guys that could be invited, I would venture that inviting them would also make relays faster. Right now, “slow” guys (without B cuts or barely with B cuts) get to go to nats on relays because they have a stud or so on their team. What about the team with 4 solid guys with b-cuts who can put together a good relay that would be a top 16 team if they could get into the meet, but because none of them are studs (or even if one is but it isn’t enough), they don’t get to go? I would rather see the “solid” guys like this go than the guy who is riding on the back of a stud.

    • #30892
      swim5599
      Member

      I agree 100%, however in order to get a relay selected even if you have a huge stud on it, you are probably a B cut guy as well, or really close. The meet has just gotten that fast.

    • #30893
      silentp
      Member

      @swim5599 wrote:

      I agree 100%, however in order to get a relay selected even if you have a huge stud on it, you are probably a B cut guy as well, or really close. The meet has just gotten that fast.

      So it takes an A cut guy and a B cut guy to get 2 other chumps, who likely have no business going to the meet, in? Meanwhile, the miler who got his B cut by 15 seconds but doesn’t have the speed to be on a relay, but is ranked 20th in the entire country of D3 swimmers, sits at home eating Ramen. I don’t get it, but maybe i never will.

    • #30894

      I would agree that the cons finals of relays can be a little watered down, but some of those relays like the 400 medlay that goes a 3:33 and gets 16th did have a relay that just missed making the cut or was close, but have one, two or three guys at the meet from the relay who made it in another relay of individual event. Then if a team is missing the breastroker and they have to put someone on there that is about four to five seconds slower who made it in another relay, the time jumps, especially if everyone on the relay is not swimming well at nationals, making their time much slower.

      The only way to have the top 16 relays (or individuals) get all-Amercian would be to take the top 16 times from the season. The important thing for most swimmers is just to qualify for nationals, if you get it, you get in. Then the meet sorts out the All-American from the swimmers AT the meet. So if you want to get All-American-Honorable mention for your 16th place in a relay, qualify.

    • #30895
      swim5599
      Member

      I am trying to think of a time when a total stud and then a B cut guy got a relay in with 2 other chumps. I mean even if they are chumps they still are fairly decent. I guess some of your relay only swimmers are chumps, but even most of those guys are at least close to B cuts. I mean you have to be under 1:24 in order to get your 200 FR in, that is avg under 21 per guy.

    • #30896
      DonCheadle
      Member

      It is usually 2 studs, 1 solid swimmer and 1 chump. Example: When I went to nationals in a 200 medly:
      Back 24.4
      Breast 26.8
      Fly 22.1
      Free 21.3

      Not that I really mind you calling me a chump, P, you should just accept that freestylers are more important than backstrokers.

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