Rankings

So maybe what you want to say (about swimming) doesn't quite fit into one of our other categories. This is the place for you.

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plutus
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Re: Rankings

Post by plutus » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:44 pm

If someone doing dives with a 4.5 DD scores 300, that should count the same as someone doing 6.0 DD scoring 300. That's the point of DD. Bias towards higher DD in the selection process defeats the purpose of DD.
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imJumbo
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Re: Rankings

Post by imJumbo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:43 pm

plutus wrote:If someone doing dives with a 4.5 DD scores 300, that should count the same as someone doing 6.0 DD scoring 300. That's the point of DD. Bias towards higher DD in the selection process defeats the purpose of DD.
Yes, in terms of comparing one competitor vs another at a given time, those two scores are equal. But when evaluating the tapes, the committee is looking for the best possible divers. The diver with the 6.0 on a lower DD (lets say 2.5) did well, but likely could only improve it to a 7 or 8. That 4.5 with a DD of lets say 3.1 can get that up to a 7 also. They just missed it in competition (which is why they dive, and don't just look at the DDs and say who wins).

Oftentimes when divers get a 4.5 or 5, they missed their dive. And most divers, unless they know they're going to win their meet by 50 or so points won't throw dives that they haven't nailed in practice. My friend who scored at nationals was able to hit his front 3.5 tuck on 3M in practice and absolutely CRUSH it for awesome scores. But if in a competition he came out too early or too late, he'd hit it for a 5. He wouldn't have put it in his program in a competitive situation if he didn't think he could drop it at the bottom.

And that's the difference. The divers with the higher DD dives that score a 5 likely missed the dive. Where as the diver with the lower DD that scored a 7 didn't miss, yet they still scored the same number of points. But if/when the better diver does do it the way they know they can, they would crush them.

Also, in case you weren't aware, it's not just the dive that is scored. From the moment the diver sets himself/herself on the board they are judged. This includes the approach and hurdle (when they walk forward), or the hold before doing an inward. And the better divers are better at that too. So while the 7 on the low DD could have looked flawless on the dive itself, they likely are MUCH less powerful on the approach/hurdle and thus wouldn't even be able to successfully throw the harder DD dive period. The tapes are able to judge this too.

d3swimmingdotcom
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Re: Rankings

Post by d3swimmingdotcom » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:02 pm

Getting back to the original post on this thread, rankings, sit tight. d3swimming.com will be releasing its first rankings in the morning. Instead of taking a national ranking we have broken the country into four regions and ranked the top 10 schools within each region. We hope you enjoy AND provide feedback!

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Re: Rankings

Post by imJumbo » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:00 pm

d3swimmingdotcom wrote:Getting back to the original post on this thread, rankings, sit tight. d3swimming.com will be releasing its first rankings in the morning. Instead of taking a national ranking we have broken the country into four regions and ranked the top 10 schools within each region. We hope you enjoy AND provide feedback!
Cool. Any insight into the rankings process? Focused on nationals or dual meets, or combo of both in some sorta formula?

d3swimmingdotcom
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Re: Rankings

Post by d3swimmingdotcom » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:49 am

They are supposed to be dual meet rankings. I'm not sure if we will do something after midseason as far as a national meet ranking goes or not, feedback there is always welcomed.

We're aware that the first few polls are going to be the biggest challenge but hopefully we can improve the process and the rankings as we go. The regions were divided up by which state a college is located in, instead of doing it by conference. There are a few instances that conferences are divided. That's not necessarily ideal but after some discussion and deliberation this was the best process we were able to come up with. Hopefully you all enjoy them. One of our other goals was to try and keep some balance in terms of strength between the conferences. With that being said, some creativity in how each division (specifically out east where the overwhelming majority of d3swimming schools takes place) of regions took place was necessary.

The breakdown for the regions is below:
Coastal:
Oregon, Washington, California, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, D.C., Connecticut and New Jersey

Northeast:
Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York

Midwest: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinios, Iowa, Indiana, Colorado, Missouri, Arkansas

Mideast: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia

Hope you enjoy, they should be posted now on the homepage.

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Re: Rankings

Post by DonCheadle » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:50 am

imJumbo wrote: Also, in case you weren't aware, it's not just the dive that is scored. From the moment the diver sets himself/herself on the board they are judged. This includes the approach and hurdle (when they walk forward), or the hold before doing an inward. And the better divers are better at that too.
That is what I meant when I said it is not possible to score a 10 on a forward 2 1/2.
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Re: Rankings

Post by imJumbo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:49 am

I mean, it is possible. Go ask David boudia (the olympian and purdue diver) to throw a 10 on a front 2.5 tuck, he can. But someone who can do that dive would never do it in competition cause they could get a 7 on a 3.5 and take the extra DD. but we have now gotten way away from the original topic haha

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DonCheadle
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Re: Rankings

Post by DonCheadle » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:54 am

imJumbo wrote:I mean, it is possible. Go ask David boudia (the olympian and purdue diver) to throw a 10 on a front 2.5 tuck, he can. But someone who can do that dive would never do it in competition cause they could get a 7 on a 3.5 and take the extra DD. but we have now gotten way away from the original topic haha
DonCheadle wrote: If you have the physical capability to to score a 10 on a 2 1/2, you AREN'T performing a 2 1/2. You are performing a 3 1/2.
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sagehen1
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Re: Rankings

Post by sagehen1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:01 pm

on a side note: who voted for Chapman for the men's Coastal rankings? They're a club team, and also not very good.

chrismyhre
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Re: Rankings

Post by chrismyhre » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:11 pm

Sagehen...that had to be Tom Dodd at Cal Lu, or, it was someone that was struggling to find another team out of the west and didn't wish to pick his, or her own team. And based on your post, he, or she should have struggled a little longer. It is my guess that he, or she will not make that error again. Please forgive him, or her.

sagehen1
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Re: Rankings

Post by sagehen1 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:26 pm

No big deal.

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SwexasTim
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Re: Rankings

Post by SwexasTim » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:53 pm

Diving is tough sport to figure out. Sometimes its just about who shows up at the meet. A couple of years ago we had a guy and girl get invited. The guy broke all of our school records, ran away with the conference title and had a solid national performance finishing in the bottom end of the top 16.

The girl finished 3rd and 5th in our league, was probably the 22nd diver invited and was top 8 and I think 12th or 13th. She outscored almost everyone she lost too a month earlier. She had a great meet, but to be honest she was the one of the two that had the lower DD's and just threw solid dive after solid dive. She passed a lot of girls that threw dives with DD's out of their range just by having a lower the DD she could handle. I don't think she had a single 7, she just got 4-6 for all 11. Sometimes slow and steady wins the race.

I believe DIII is moving to a regional invite system in the 2012-2013 season. Which I think is absolutely great. Though I'm sure 5 years down the line we will complain because one region is far better than another.
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