Rankings

So maybe what you want to say (about swimming) doesn't quite fit into one of our other categories. This is the place for you.

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hittinthatdougie
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Rankings

Post by hittinthatdougie » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:55 pm

I've been looking to see where I could find some preseason rankings now that the season is underway. Anyone know where they are at? collegeswimming.com doesnt have them up. Or what can we predict the top 20 teams are going to be this year?

screeeeeeeeech
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Re: Rankings

Post by screeeeeeeeech » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:07 pm

Not sure that they exist yet, since there haven't been too many meets. I'll take a stab at a top 5, even though I have done no research and have barely paid attention to anyone besides Emory.

1) Kenyon
2) Denison
3) Emory
4) MIT
5) Kzoo?

As far as women go, all that matters is that Emory girls are going to kill it if they keep up the pace they're on.
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BYoung001
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Re: Rankings

Post by BYoung001 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:08 am

Biased to my Alma Mater...

Chicago has been a dual meet force much of the last 5 or 6 years, and has been waiting on someone to push the relays into nationals. Quick glimpse of the freshman class shows a 50. potential backstroker, a phenomenal breaststroker, and some serious diving depth (new dive training equipment + experienced full time diving coach to boot). Based on the very limited results thus far, I'd put Chicago Men 5-8 on the dual ranking and around 15th on a Nationals prediction. I see the Maroons bringing 4 individual scorers and at least 3 scoring relays to NCAAs. Huge gains with more to come.

CurtisReference
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Re: Rankings

Post by CurtisReference » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:18 am

Didn't Redlands get a big recruit this year? They ended up top 10 last year and still have most of their National team.

Amherst and Williams? Middlebury? Any word on the recruits that they brought in? I know that they are still a few weeks away from swimming, but everybody is on campus.

Staten Island had some good freshman last year. Did they get anything to replace their breastroke Russian? If they were able to get relays in, they could move up the scoreboard quickly (obviously).

Last years end of the year top 15 was

1. Kenyon
2. Emory
3. Denison
4. Amherst
5. Johns Hopkins
6. MIT
7. Williams
8. Kalamazoo
9. Stevens
10. Stevens Point
11. TCNJ
12. Carnagie Mellon
13. Wash U.
14. Hope
15. Grove CIty

So you don't have to look it up, the final 15 were:

1. Denison
2. Kenyon
3. Emory
4t. Williams
4t. MIT
6. Amherst
7. Redlands (ranked 21st)
8. Kalamazoo
9. Johns Hopkins
10. Middlebury (ranked 23)
11. Stevens Point
12. TCNJ
13. Staten Island
14. Stevens
15. Whitworth (ranked 20)

silentp
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Re: Rankings

Post by silentp » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:33 am

screeeeeeeeech wrote:5) Kzoo?
Nope. We lost a lot the last 2 years and will be rebuilding this year. With Manning, we still have a shot at top 15, but not much beyond that.

Right now, I'd say Redands is the favorite for 5th, but a lot can happen before March.

Dual meet rankings are always different, but I agree Chicago should be ranked high. I'm not sure about 5th, but top 10.
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screeeeeeeeech
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Re: Rankings

Post by screeeeeeeeech » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:40 am

Wow Redlands?! Does anyone remember that kid Cox who won the 50 at Holland in '05? Wasn't he a redlands kid?
Who did they have? Just a bunch of sprinters?
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sbswim
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Re: Rankings

Post by sbswim » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:45 am

Amherst and Williams (with their huge incoming classes) will also be right there fighting a top five spot

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Re: Rankings

Post by imJumbo » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:47 am

As much as it pains me to say, outside of Kenyon/Denison/Emory/MIT, the only truly legitimate teams to be top 5/6 is Williams and Amherst. Their teams are incredibly strong, especially Williams. Williams got probably the best recruiting class in the country (what other team can say they have like 7 freshmen sub 1:42?) and Amherst got some studs (although can't replace Fraser or Fitzgerald). I say Williams is 5th (maybe 4th over MIT, that's a close call those 2 teams are unbelievably strong and only getting stronger).

Talking dual meet rankings and nationals rankings are two different things, as I expanded on ad nauseum last year. But I think these top 5/6 teams are up there regardless of whether it's dual meet or nationals. After around the top 8 I think there becomes a split, where teams (such as my alma matter) are much stronger in dual meets than in the national scene (teams built on depth) whereas other teams are the opposite (a few true studs, like GCC from a few years ago).

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King James
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Re: Rankings

Post by King James » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:49 am

screeeeeeeeech wrote:Not sure that they exist yet, since there haven't been too many meets. I'll take a stab at a top 5, even though I have done no research and have barely paid attention to anyone besides Emory.

1) Kenyon
2) Denison
3) Emory
4) MIT
5) Kzoo?

As far as women go, all that matters is that Emory girls are going to kill it if they keep up the pace they're on.
Kzoo losing Fleming will move them down quite a bit. They still have Manning but he will not be much of a game changer on the NCAA level in the free relays so I am not expecting any of their relays to make the top 8. Manning will final his individuals but after that they will most likely not have any individual points. I see them more likely in the 8-15 range at the end of the year. However, they are a very young team so they could surprise me if some of the Freshmen develop faster than I expect.

I agree with the first four, these four teams are all swimming well (especially MIT & Kenyon). After that it may be too early to really know.
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Re: Rankings

Post by silentp » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:05 pm

screeeeeeeeech wrote:Wow Redlands?! Does anyone remember that kid Cox who won the 50 at Holland in '05? Wasn't he a redlands kid?
Who did they have? Just a bunch of sprinters?
He was from CMS. He came in as a 20.2 or .3 from high school then quit after his freshman year.

Redlands has typically been known for sprinters though.
imJumbo wrote:As much as it pains me to say, outside of Kenyon/Denison/Emory/MIT, the only truly legitimate teams to be top 5/6 is Williams and Amherst. Their teams are incredibly strong, especially Williams. Williams got probably the best recruiting class in the country (what other team can say they have like 7 freshmen sub 1:42?) and Amherst got some studs (although can't replace Fraser or Fitzgerald). I say Williams is 5th (maybe 4th over MIT, that's a close call those 2 teams are unbelievably strong and only getting stronger).
I disagree. Redlands wasn't that far behind either team last year and added a significantly better swimmer than either Williams or Amherst, who can have an immediate NCAA impact. They will be in that race for 5th.
Frank: Look, I didn't go to Vietnam just to have pansies like you take my freedom away from me.
Dee: You went to Vietnam in 1993 to open up a sweatshop!
Frank: ...and a lot of good men died in that sweatshop!

sagehen1
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Re: Rankings

Post by sagehen1 » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:55 pm

Redlands' ranking depends on whether the rankings are dual meet or national championship. They will beat probably ten teams at nationals that they couldn't beat at a dual meet, just because their depth isn't quite there, though they're definitely improving.

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Negrodamus
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Re: Rankings

Post by Negrodamus » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:30 pm

BYoung001 wrote:Biased to my Alma Mater...

Chicago has been a dual meet force much of the last 5 or 6 years, and has been waiting on someone to push the relays into nationals. Quick glimpse of the freshman class shows a 50. potential backstroker, a phenomenal breaststroker, and some serious diving depth (new dive training equipment + experienced full time diving coach to boot). Based on the very limited results thus far, I'd put Chicago Men 5-8 on the dual ranking and around 15th on a Nationals prediction. I see the Maroons bringing 4 individual scorers and at least 3 scoring relays to NCAAs. Huge gains with more to come.
I agree that UC should be ranked high in dual meets, when we (Kzoo) swam against them in-season they always swam fast. However, their taper time drops were rarely that impressive. I remember one of their flyers almost going a PR in our dual meet in the 2 fly one year, which should never happen seeing as that's one of the most exhausting races. Also, one of my friends was an assistant coach there for awhile and said they have a lot of rest days during the season, which explains the fast in-season times. I'd put them around 7-8th in dual meets, but only 17-20 in nationals rankings.
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hittinthatdougie
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Re: Rankings

Post by hittinthatdougie » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:35 pm

Looking at the results Redlands had 5 guys last year who placed them 7th. 4 scored individually and 1 was a relay swimmer. With Depew coming in to pair up with his older brother should be interesting how it all plays out. I'm not sure if they were close in sending more that just missed cuts but looks to be like a strong 5 that could be top 8 in a lot of events. Especially 200 IM with 3 of them.

Should make things interesting with Turk back. And do we know if Wampler is back again? Both are huge for individual and relay points for their team. Middlebury loses Dillion, anyone coming in that can take his spot for that team?

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Re: Rankings

Post by Negrodamus » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:45 pm

King James wrote:Kzoo losing Fleming will move them down quite a bit. They still have Manning but he will not be much of a game changer on the NCAA level in the free relays so I am not expecting any of their relays to make the top 8. Manning will final his individuals but after that they will most likely not have any individual points. I see them more likely in the 8-15 range at the end of the year. However, they are a very young team so they could surprise me if some of the Freshmen develop faster than I expect.
Agreed. They also lose Bazzell which hurts them for the free relays more and some individual points. However, I disagree about Manning on the free relays. He already split a 21.0 in the first meet of the year and he's better at the 100 and 200 free. He's not gonna split a 19.5 and 43 low like Fleming obviously but right now he is the fastest K freestyler. Also, Lodewyk should score some individual points at nats as well. I agree with the 8-15 range although I'll narrow it to more like 10-13. However, they do have a lot of potential with a lot of young talented swimmers and Kathy's ability to get big time drops each year for the past 5+ years she's been there.

On a side note, The MIAA has a chance to have four teams out of six (Hope, Calvin, Olivet and Kzoo) qualify relays for nationals which hasn't happened for a long time (if ever?). That would be pretty cool.
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King James
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Re: Rankings

Post by King James » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Negrodamus, I guess it depends on your definition of a game changer. Manning will most likely have the fastest splits in the MIAA and should be sub 45 split and in the 20.2-20.4 range split. My point was more that when this is your best split and the other three lag behind this quite a bit, making finals becomes very difficult. To place top 8 in relays it will be more important for the other guys to step up. Although, you are correct, Kathy has been developing swimmers very well and I see no reason why that would change.
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