Middlebury Coach Resigns

So maybe what you want to say (about swimming) doesn't quite fit into one of our other categories. This is the place for you.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by polarbear » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:32 am

Colbybr wrote:
Mac of the MIAC wrote:The only point I need to make is that hazing is wrong. Bullying is wrong. Coaches who turn a blind eye, condone, or even participate are cowards. They should not be leading a team, especially a team of impressionable young adults. If you don't have it in you to make a stand for something that matters, something that every administration condemns, then you should not be a swim coach. You should not be a swim captain. This exact same thing happened in 2007 at Middleburry.

I'm embarrassed that Peter Soloman came on this board, expecting sympathy, and actually getting it from most of you. Quit embarrassing yourself. You've already done enough of that. Do you really need another internet page devoted to your scandal? Is ABC news not enough? Are the 10's of parents whose trust you've violated, and who will probably follow you around from job to job, emailing AD's not enough?

You failed to stand up for your swimmers last year. Start now. Admit that you were wrong. Admit that hazing is wrong. Apologize to the parents. And then wait for it to blow over. This is honest career advice that I suggest you follow.
I agree with Mac on a lot of points. When I was a swimmer in the league, I did have a problem with him and its bothered me since I became a coach. I don't think that he encouraged his team to lack sportsmanship or go over the line, it just didn't seem like he stood up to them when they did it. I remember being at the women's NESCAC championships and seeing a girl from Middlebury rip Amherst's banner from the wall. Then I watched a girl from Amherst come up and confront Pete about what just happened- he just stood there and ignored her. I don't doubt that he was good at coaching and extremely positive and cared a lot about the kids he coached. But you have to be the adult and set the tone and expectations for your team.
I think Colbybr said what I was trying to get across better than I did (must be a result of the excellent education he received at his high school). When he needed to stand up to the team and reel them in it seemed like it never happened. They even had a coaches meeting at NE's my senior year to discuss his team's behavior. I didnt swim for him, I have no idea what he said to the team, but the situation didn't seem to improve.

The great part about swimming is that you can excel and win even while your competitor has an excellent time -- your competition is the clock, not just the swimmer in the lane next to you. In my opinion that opens the door for better sportmanship, friendships with people on other teams, etc., than sports without a timing element allow. While I didnt swim for him and he probably couldn't pick em out of a crowd, I am not sure that his teams ever got that.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by Captain Insano » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:41 am

silentp wrote:I'm confused why people are blaming the administration... Really? They issued punishment due to serious hazing activities. The coach has to be blamed before the administration. That being said, perhaps the percentage of his blame is where we disagree. The majority of blame falls on swimmers who were present. Any swimmers who were either present or knew about this should be individually punished. They got off softly.

Regarding percentage of blame to the coach, I would think that the first time something like this happens, his blame is small. However, when it happens a 2nd time, that's where the blame level increases (for me). Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Absolutely, I was going to post almost the exact same thing... but I would place far less blame on people that knew the hazing was going to take place, moreso the ones that actually carried it out. I don't give a damn about groupthink, if you make someone do something with a banana you should be punished. As well as the people that did something with a banana. Both are equally punishable in my conscience. Knowing about something like that and not saying anything is not punishable; we all know about some fairly ridiculous things - although I am proud to say at Hope nearly all of this was not associated with the swim team.

With this in mind, I do think it is fair to suspend the entire team if everyone knew about it (probably the case here) and no one said anything... but only because it enforces the team aspect of swimming.
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This was the only disagreable part of your post

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by Colbybr » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:14 am

polarbear wrote:
I think Colbybr said what I was trying to get across better than I did (must be a result of the excellent education he received at his high school). When he needed to stand up to the team and reel them in it seemed like it never happened. They even had a coaches meeting at NE's my senior year to discuss his team's behavior. I didnt swim for him, I have no idea what he said to the team, but the situation didn't seem to improve.

The great part about swimming is that you can excel and win even while your competitor has an excellent time -- your competition is the clock, not just the swimmer in the lane next to you. In my opinion that opens the door for better sportmanship, friendships with people on other teams, etc., than sports without a timing element allow. While I didnt swim for him and he probably couldn't pick em out of a crowd, I am not sure that his teams ever got that.
Can I just throw out there that I may have given the impression that I went to a New England prep school. I was in fact public school educated through high school. I do concede they had excellent English teachers at my high school, most of whom would cringe at my poor use of apostrophes in blog posts and comments on this forum.
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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by iamdonovan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:21 pm

silentp wrote:Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
I think you mean, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on... shame... well, you don't get fooled again."
damn, I'm hungry for some chunky soup

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by swimdoctor » Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Wow, I feel really put down. Guess I won't dare say anything again. Now I know my place. Thanks.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by iamdonovan » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:34 pm

Captain Insano wrote:if you make someone do something with a banana you should be punished. As well as the people that did something with a banana. Both are equally punishable in my conscience.
I'm a little confused - the people who make someone do something with a banana should be punished, as well as the people who were made to something with a banana? And furthermore, how can I get invited to the sorts of parties you're going to, where people are doing things with bananas?
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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by polarbear » Mon May 02, 2011 10:58 am

Colbybr wrote:
polarbear wrote:
I think Colbybr said what I was trying to get across better than I did (must be a result of the excellent education he received at his high school). When he needed to stand up to the team and reel them in it seemed like it never happened. They even had a coaches meeting at NE's my senior year to discuss his team's behavior. I didnt swim for him, I have no idea what he said to the team, but the situation didn't seem to improve.

The great part about swimming is that you can excel and win even while your competitor has an excellent time -- your competition is the clock, not just the swimmer in the lane next to you. In my opinion that opens the door for better sportmanship, friendships with people on other teams, etc., than sports without a timing element allow. While I didnt swim for him and he probably couldn't pick em out of a crowd, I am not sure that his teams ever got that.
Can I just throw out there that I may have given the impression that I went to a New England prep school. I was in fact public school educated through high school. I do concede they had excellent English teachers at my high school, most of whom would cringe at my poor use of apostrophes in blog posts and comments on this forum.
I know where you went to high school -- as a Bowdoin grad I was just totally unwilling to admit that any of your insight came from your Colby education and therefore wanted to give the credit to your excellent high school.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by babwik » Tue May 03, 2011 4:39 pm

So, here's a new job posting:

http://ncaamarket.ncaa.org/jobs#/detail/4235316

This is the same Wheaton that has been coached by Middlebury alum JP Gowdy for the last 8 years. Does this mean 1+1= Gowdy as the new Middlebury coach in a fast hire w/o a posted search? Or is this a big coincidence that opens up another D3 position?

edit: (turns out it is a big coincidence)

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by sagehen1 » Tue May 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Yes, that's merely a coincidence - Gowdy has taken the head coaching position at Pomona-Pitzer. Along with Occidental coach Alex Kuhn's resignation, that's quite a bit of shake-up in the SCIAC.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by OLDCAT » Wed May 04, 2011 8:03 am

J.P. is a great guy and did quite the job at Wheaton. I wish him all the luck.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by silentp » Wed May 04, 2011 9:00 am

OLDCAT wrote:J.P. is a great guy and did quite the job at Wheaton. I wish him all the luck.
I've heard nothing but good things about the guy, but what did he do with the Wheaton program that would make you say he did "quite the job" there? From an outsiders perspective, they were decent with a star sprinkled in here and there. I don't have inside knowledge on anything though.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by OLDCAT » Wed May 04, 2011 10:40 am

I've heard nothing but good things about the guy, but what did he do with the Wheaton program that would make you say he did "quite the job" there? From an outsiders perspective, they were decent with a star sprinkled in here and there. I don't have inside knowledge on anything though.
My understanding is that when he took over they were a perennial last place team. This year both teams finished 4th, I believe, with several going to NCAAs. fairly good results I think. Maybe my opinion is a bit tainted because I like J.P. as a person.

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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by Colbybr » Wed May 04, 2011 2:16 pm

Program was fairly moribund in the last few years before he got there, did a lot with a little. Got some men to NCAAs which is no small feat at a school with 30% men or whatever they have.
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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by silentp » Wed May 04, 2011 4:02 pm

Ah, well then yes, good work. I wonder why he'd leave for Pamona-Pitzer then, which is not a good program. Maybe he sees nice potential out there.
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Re: Middlebury Coach Resigns

Post by DonCheadle » Wed May 04, 2011 5:03 pm

silentp wrote: I wonder why he'd leave for Pamona-Pitzer then, which is not a good program. Maybe he sees nice potential out there.
So-Cal = best swimming and weather in the country though I believe Gowdy is Canadian, eh?

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