University of Washington Swim Program Cut

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BlackFire
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University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by BlackFire » Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 pm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/s ... uts02.html

Out with the student-athletes, unless they are positive revenue generators!

It's sad to see that collegiate athletics has now completely evolved away from amateur athletics. While I understand that Football and Basketball fund the swim program, what happened to the student-athlete? The real reason to do a sport is not to get a scholi or make cash, but to push yourself as hard as you can just to see what you are possible of. Yet the 0-12 football team gets new, highly paid coaches (DC Holt is one of the top 5 highest paid assistants in the country) and 85 scholarships. I am sure that 70 out of those 85 players don't earn or deserve a free ride if their team goes 0 for 12 AND they have a graduation rate under 50%. UW placed 16th at NCAA's this year.

Correction: Grad Rate= 65%- tied for 39th but behind Wazzu. It still is low compared to 100% graduation by swimmers

http://www.fanblogs.com/ncaa/007839.php
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by JHU84 » Fri May 01, 2009 11:03 pm

ummm - don't use the term football and basketball with student athletes at most DI schools. Not sure if many of the players could even spell that.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by skutbe01 » Fri May 01, 2009 11:54 pm

BlackFire wrote:While I understand that Football and Basketball fund the swim program
End of story.
BlackFire wrote:The real reason to do a sport is not to get a scholi or make cash, but to push yourself as hard as you can just to see what you are possible of. Yet the 0-12 football team gets new, highly paid coaches...and 85 scholarships.

Watch a D-I football/basketball/any sport team workout, they push themselves. Team sport games are highly conditional, W-L records don't always show the whole story.
BlackFire wrote:I am sure that 70 out of those 85 players don't earn or deserve a free ride if their team goes 0 for 12 AND they have a graduation rate under 50%.
A couple things about this. Where did you see that they give 85 full rides? 98 players are on the roster, and I am not familiar with their coach's walk-on policy, but I have to assume some are partial scholarships. As far as the graduation rate, you are dealing with two completely seperate socio-economic groups when you are recruiting football players and swimmers. Swimming is a country club sport. Football is an escape for some kids who are not in 'healthy' situations. Granted, there will be exceptions. But find me a football team where all of them knew they would get to go to college when they were 16 and I will be amazed.
JHU84 wrote:ummm - don't use the term football and basketball with student athletes at most DI schools. Not sure if many of the players could even spell that.
Classy JHU, because there are never Academic All-Americans on football/basketball teams and there are never screw-ups on swim teams.

It is too bad that programs are being cut. More teams = more exposure, duh! However, if the kids really want to swim there will be places for them to swim. And if those genius kids want to chase academic excellence over swimming goals, DIII will get faster.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by JHU84 » Sat May 02, 2009 9:54 am

JHU84 wrote:ummm - don't use the term football and basketball with student athletes at most DI schools. Not sure if many of the players could even spell that.
Classy JHU, because there are never Academic All-Americans on football/basketball teams and there are never screw-ups on swim teams.
[/quote]

Go look at the statistics and gradutation rates at MOST DI schools. And I said many not ALL
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by Vic » Sat May 02, 2009 11:41 am

This is really sad but not all that surprising. From what I can tell, the athletic department hasn't been very supportive of swimming lately. Their facilities are terrible, which is why they need to swim in Federal Way. That obviously played into the decision - why have a swim team if you're never going to be competitive on a year to year basis without a new pool? And, I'm assuming that a new pool would be a long way off, because they are having a really hard time finding funds to renovate Husky Stadium and that is a much higher priority over a new pool.

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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by skutbe01 » Sat May 02, 2009 12:36 pm

JHU84 wrote:Go look at the statistics and gradutation rates at MOST DI schools. And I said many not ALL
Like I said before, there are so many factors playing in to those stats that it is an unfair measurment.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by Colbybr » Sat May 02, 2009 12:55 pm

What factors Ben? Enlighten us as to why that isn't fair.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by BlackFire » Sat May 02, 2009 1:14 pm

Putting the Bell Curve Debate aside, all of those football and BBall players are still student-athletes, not professional athletes. They get an opportunity to go to college and get a degree. Having such a low graduation percentage (I mean, Washington State is ahead of them and half of their team attend classes from jail!) just points out the fact that the Athletics program does not have its priorities straight. None of those seniors are going to play professionally, they played on an 0-12 team! (also none were drafted) Turning collegiate athletics into a business where only money making sports exist does the athletes a disservice.

BTW Vic- I love the Husky
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by skutbe01 » Sat May 02, 2009 2:48 pm

Colbybr wrote:What factors Ben? Enlighten us as to why that isn't fair.
Well, first let me say that these factors are generalizations and I have no connections to UW athletics to solidify for this instance.

Race, IMO, plays the biggest part. Is it a coincidence that these sports graduation rates and the rates of African American graduates nationwide are so low? http://www.jbhe.com/preview/winter07preview.html 43% of African Americans graduate from college, 36% of A A men graduate.

Spawning from the race issue you run into money issues, education quality issues, and issues brought up by social stigmas.

If there is a kid who lives in a urban area who has 4.6 40 speed with a 36 inch vertical, the teachers and coaches will 'help' them through high school to give them the opportunity to have a better life through sports. Is that fair? No. Is it morally right? Depends who you ask. But those kids come to college and are not prepared. Some will adapt and some will reach overload and not be able to handle it in the 6 years that those graduation rates allow. Does that mean they never graduate? No. And to you and I and everyone else on this forum, six years probably seems like much more than needed to graduate. But we are probably all products of AP classes and a average or better than upbringing.

Equal Opportunity has a part in this as well. Quotas need to be met. If the president or deans see that they can meet the quota while gaining an elite athlete it's a two-fer.

Anyway, I can elaborate more, but what I am saying is don't blame this on the football players or the basketball players. They don't make the budget decisions and really have nothing to do with this.

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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by plutus » Sat May 02, 2009 4:26 pm

skutbe01 wrote:[
A couple things about this. Where did you see that they give 85 full rides? 98 players are on the roster, and I am not familiar with their coach's walk-on policy, but I have to assume some are partial scholarships.
I may be mistaken, but I believe DI basketball and football are in the class of sports that can only give out full scholarships, in contrast to swimming where coaches can allocate into partial scholarships.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by Psimon3 » Sat May 02, 2009 7:10 pm

plutus wrote:
skutbe01 wrote:[
A couple things about this. Where did you see that they give 85 full rides? 98 players are on the roster, and I am not familiar with their coach's walk-on policy, but I have to assume some are partial scholarships.
I may be mistaken, but I believe DI basketball and football are in the class of sports that can only give out full scholarships, in contrast to swimming where coaches can allocate into partial scholarships.
Add Volleyball to the list as well. It is all or nothing for those sports.

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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by Milhouse » Sun May 03, 2009 11:17 am

I have to admit, when I clicked on this thread I was expecting another discussion about those expensive new suits and how they are/aren't ruining the sport. I was NOT expecting anything about race.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by Derek » Mon May 04, 2009 9:31 am

skutbe01 wrote:Anyway, I can elaborate more, but what I am saying is don't blame this on the football players or the basketball players. They don't make the budget decisions and really have nothing to do with this.
Ben,

I think you bring up some great points about problems in our education system (I think most people here know how I feel about public education) and race/socioeconomic factors. I also appreciate your defense of football and basketball players - you are right that it is not their fault and they are just doing what we all can't. (C'mon, I know we all love swimming, but how awesome would it be to play in a nationally televised game?) However, I don't think that either of these factors defend the decision to cut any other sports team, and definitely not one over the other. Budget concerns aside, the benefit of athletic competition to the school and our society is great enough that it is worth a sacrifice. It may be that everything else that could possibly be cut already was cut, in which case I hope for the entire country that we get out of this recession FAST, but I have a sinking feeling that the cuts are more politically charged than having to do with race or budget. I think we have a right to attack the people who make these decisions, but I hope we choose to attack "why cut sports instead of the arts" or "why cut sports instead X pointless program" or "why are you spending such crazy amount of money to pay that coach" rather than pit one team against the next.

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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by skutbe01 » Mon May 04, 2009 11:23 am

Derek wrote:...but I hope we choose to attack ... "why are you spending such crazy amount of money to pay that coach"
This is probably the easiest and most logical option. U of W went 0-12 but I am sure their coach gets close to, if not, a seven-figure salary. University of Nebraska cut their men's program (while Olympian Adam Pine was still there, among other great swimmers) in 2002 for 'budget reasons'. At the same time Frank Solich was getting paid a seven-figure salary for coaching Husker Football to on of the worst seasons it had seen in school history.

Swimming and Diving programs will forever be Division I AD's whipping boys.
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Re: University of Washington Swim Program Cut

Post by RhymeAndReason » Mon May 04, 2009 11:34 am

skutbe01 wrote:
Derek wrote:...but I hope we choose to attack ... "why are you spending such crazy amount of money to pay that coach"
This is probably the easiest and most logical option. U of W went 0-12 but I am sure their coach gets close to, if not, a seven-figure salary. University of Nebraska cut their men's program (while Olympian Adam Pine was still there, among other great swimmers) in 2002 for 'budget reasons'. At the same time Frank Solich was getting paid a seven-figure salary for coaching Husker Football to on of the worst seasons it had seen in school history.

Swimming and Diving programs will forever be Division I AD's whipping boys.
I saw that he made ~1.5 million last year. UW football was National champ in 1993, and have historically been a very good team (I'm a homer, what can I say), so they'll dump money into the program.
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