TRUE COMPARISON!

So maybe what you want to say (about swimming) doesn't quite fit into one of our other categories. This is the place for you.

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2000swimmer
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TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by 2000swimmer » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:43 pm

The real proof in that the suits have tainted our sport lie with the comparison of last years psyche sheet to this years top times.
http://www.collegeswimming.com/meet/5892/

NCAA...you made a bad move by allowing these suits. And many...i do mean many swimmers that could not afford a LZR, B70, (either school or individual), are paying a huge price by sitting at home when they deserve to be in at Nationals.

Oh..and what will happen when the NCAA says: "We cannot allow them at Nationals this year because many teams have been told by their distributor that they will not be available in time for NCAA's therefore it will not be a level playing field"?

Still...that does not change anything...the times are set.

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wonderboy33
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by wonderboy33 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:56 pm

Not true, the NCAA fell in line with FINA. If you have a problem with the suits, you have a problem with FINA. It would be disastrous for the NCAA to not allow the suits when FINA has allowed them. College swimming would be in worse shape than it already is.
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BreakingTheSurface
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by BreakingTheSurface » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:26 pm

Not sure that I agree that college swimming is in a bad way -- most swimmers are overachievers, focused, and goal oriented. They don't have time (until they become alumni :P ) to engage in too much hijinx or get into trouble. I think the suits are bad for swimming in many ways. But then, I am only 1 person.

Alumni, parents, coaches should be singing the praises of college swimmers. We need to be proactive in any way we can.
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2000swimmer
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by 2000swimmer » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:32 pm

BreakingTheSurface wrote:Not sure that I agree that college swimming is in a bad way -- most swimmers are overachievers, focused, and goal oriented. They don't have time (until they become alumni :P ) to engage in too much hijinx or get into trouble. I think the suits are bad for swimming in many ways. But then, I am only 1 person.

Alumni, parents, coaches should be singing the praises of college swimmers. We need to be proactive in any way we can.
I totally agree with your statement. I would not have changed anything in my time as a college swimmer. My beef is with the NCAA rules committee. They made a bad decision by allowing the suits. We will see very fast times (have already) at nationals. But at D-III, until the suits are more available to them, and the cost is dropped dramatically, it will not be an even playing field.

Every swimmer that is invited to nationals this year should be thanking their college budgets (or parents pocket books if it was that case). I am witnessing the effect on a few teams that could not afford the suits. They are paying a very big price by not being invited to nationals...just because they swam lifetime bests in a PRO or Tracer Light or FS II.

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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by maverick1 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:44 pm

BreakingTheSurface wrote: I am witnessing the effect on a few teams that could not afford the suits. They are paying a very big price by not being invited to nationals...just because they swam lifetime bests in a PRO or Tracer Light or FS II.
With which teams are you witnessing this? (i honestly want to know, not trying to be sarcastic/piss you off)

it does suck that the suits are so expensive, maybe silentp can break into speedo's headquarters and break into their computer (a la zoolander) to find their secret and then start a company that can sell the suits at a better price.
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ag
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by ag » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:54 pm

maverick wrote: With which teams are you witnessing this? (i honestly want to know, not trying to be sarcastic/piss you off)

it does suck that the suits are so expensive, maybe silentp can break into speedo's headquarters and break into their computer (a la zoolander) to find their secret and then start a company that can sell the suits at a better price.
One team I'm familiar with is JHU. No tech suits available before conference [women]. Whatever they had there, personal.
While in relays they were able to achieve some decent times [except 200F], definitely lost positions in some individual events.

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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by silentp » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:17 pm

ag wrote:
maverick wrote: With which teams are you witnessing this? (i honestly want to know, not trying to be sarcastic/piss you off)

it does suck that the suits are so expensive, maybe silentp can break into speedo's headquarters and break into their computer (a la zoolander) to find their secret and then start a company that can sell the suits at a better price.
One team I'm familiar with is JHU. No tech suits available before conference [women]. Whatever they had there, personal.
While in relays they were able to achieve some decent times [except 200F], definitely lost positions in some individual events.
Didn't someone on here post that they did have suits? Not many and they had to share but so did a lot of teams.
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ag
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by ag » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:44 pm

silentp wrote: Didn't someone on here post that they did have suits? Not many and they had to share but so did a lot of teams.
If you are asking about JHU, then Chris Knight mentioned that JHU had suits, I have replied that they had 3-4, personal, and they shared them in some events.
I don't know about other teams.
And the current situation is that the possible women for NCAA bought their own suits [meaning, their parents bought them at around $300/piece]. As far as I know, the men also have suits [don't know how many], personal, for their conference.

TearItUp16
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by TearItUp16 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:02 am

Personally, I feel that the high-tech suits are more of a mental thing than anything else. People get really psyched up before their races because they think, "Hey, I'm wearing a really expensive suit, so I'm bound to swim fast!". Then they just blow everyone away, because they're already in that mindset. And I can attest to that, as I wore one at our conference meet, and so did the majority of my team who agree with me. The suit didn't actually feel that good in the water, but since it made me look and feel like such a badass, I got super pumped to swim and I went really fast!

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JHU84
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by JHU84 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:13 am

TearItUp16 wrote:Personally, I feel that the high-tech suits are more of a mental thing than anything else. People get really psyched up before their races because they think, "Hey, I'm wearing a really expensive suit, so I'm bound to swim fast!". Then they just blow everyone away, because they're already in that mindset. And I can attest to that, as I wore one at our conference meet, and so did the majority of my team who agree with me. The suit didn't actually feel that good in the water, but since it made me look and feel like such a badass, I got super pumped to swim and I went really fast!
there is a mental aspect but they make average swimmers good, good swimmers very good and the elite swimmers get some benefit. What they are doing is closing the gap between the elite swimmers and the average swimmers.
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babwik
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by babwik » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:15 am

So.... you wore a new suit, went fast times, and think it was just b/c you were pumped up. Of COURSE you want to claim the suit had nothing to do with it, that would take some credit away from your hard work and performance. This is the same as many of the swammers on here up in arms about the suit, claiming it is everything, b/c people are smashing their old times and making their old records irrelevant.

I've seen it in person. It ain't just mental. The advantage is real. If you want to talk about psychological impact, lets talk about the kids not wearing a tech suit swimming next to a bunch of blue 70s and lzrs. That's where it takes some mental toughness to perform your best.

As far as how they "feel" in the water, that doesn't mean much. Do you know what feels good? Swimming slow. Swimming fast hurts like hell.

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JHU84
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by JHU84 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:26 am

babwik wrote:
As far as how they "feel" in the water, that doesn't mean much. Do you know what feels good? Swimming slow. Swimming fast hurts like hell.

haha - even swimming slow hurts like hell for me
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by CRUNCHYSOCK » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:12 pm

That's a great point. Science be damned, I'm sure it's all just mental. Just like how wearing flippers only makes you faster because you think they will, not because they give you any additional mechanical advantage. And the dolphin kick in the breastroke? Obviously psychological. It's cool that they keep inventing stuff that makes swimmers more psyched up than the previous generation was able to get.
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N Dynamite
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by N Dynamite » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:24 pm

For me it was goggles - I was so psyched when I could see underwater my times dropped like crazy. Had nothing to do with the fact I could train longer without my eyes feeling like they were going to burn out of my skull after a few thousand yards. Goggles were all mental too.
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silentp
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Re: TRUE COMPARISON!

Post by silentp » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:37 pm

TearItUp16 wrote:And I can attest to that, as I wore one at our conference meet, and so did the majority of my team who agree with me. The suit didn't actually feel that good in the water, but since it made me look and feel like such a badass, I got super pumped to swim and I went really fast!
I think you may have worn it incorrectly. Perhaps inside out? Backwards maybe? For everyone that I have talked to, there was a difference. That was with the LZR though, so maybe you wore the blueseventy? The blueseventy may not actually feel different in the water since its main attraction is bouyancy, which is hard to notice while swimming (not sarcastic).
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